Polls Are The Only Accurate Convention Pundits

by: Chris Bowers

Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 16:30


We are now nearly two weeks into the convention and vice-presidential season. By this point, I have heard more opinions on the quality of the various picks and of various speeches to last me another four years. Also, I am seeing an increasing number of progressives online argue that Palin's speech will give the Republican ticket a boost. Some go even further, and argue that Palin has generally been a benefit to the McCain campaign.

As far as the first claim goes, the jury is still out. Tracking polls won't include responses post-Palin until tomorrow morning. However, given that Monday was a very good day in the tracking polls for Obama-Biden, it is likely that McCain will gain 1-2% in the Gallup and Rasmussen tracking polls tomorrow. Also, Palin's speech scored a huge audience, which could help Republicans, too (or hurt them, if they watched Giuliani's speech first). Currently, Obama leads by 7% in Gallup, and 5% in Rasmussen.

The second claim, that Palin has generally been a benefit to the Republican ticket, can be quantifiably shown to be false. One need only to look at the national polling trend chart at Pollster.com to see this (more in the extended entry):

Chris Bowers :: Polls Are The Only Accurate Convention Pundits

There is a clear, sharp, upward spike for Obama over the last week. One week ago, he only led by 1.6% (46.5%-44.9%), but now he currently leads by 5.2% (49.1%--43.9%), for a net gain of 3.6%. This bump coincided both with the selection of Palin as McCain's running mate, and also with Obama's acceptance speech at the Democratic convention. Surely, both played a role in Obama's rise, but it can be shown that Palin actually played a bigger role.

The key piece of data to show this is the comparison of the tracking polls released on Tuesday, and those released on Monday. This is because, one would assume, Friday the 29th should have been the day that Obama benefited the most from his convention speech. By Saturday, the news cycle had come to be entirely dominated by Palin, and reports on Obama's speech were quickly reduced in number. By Monday, it was all Palin, all the time. So, by comparing two tracking polls, one with Friday's numbers, and another where Friday's numbers were replaced by Monday's numbers, we can see if Monday or Friday was a better day for Obama. If Monday was a better polling day for Obama than Friday, then that means news about Palin's selection was actually even more favorable to Obama than his own convention speech.

In the Rasmussen poll, Obama rose from a 49%-46% in the tracking poll conducting Friday through Sunday, to a 51%-45% lead in the tracking poll conducted Saturday through Monday. With Monday's numbers replacing Friday's numbers, Obama went up 3% in the tracking poll, meaning that he performed between 7%-11% better on Monday than on Friday. In the Gallup poll, the story is similar. Obama rose from a 49%-43% lead in the tracking poll that was conducted Friday through Sunday, to a 50%-42% lead in the tracking poll that was conducted Saturday through Monday. This means that Obama polled between 4-8% better on Monday than on Friday in the Gallup poll.

Between the two polls, Obama polled 6-9% better on Monday than he did on Friday. That is a huge, negative swing away from McCain because of Palin. It is hard to imagine any sort of bounce that can wipe away that initial damage she caused. At this point, breaking even will be difficult. For Palin to post a net gain for the Republican ticket will be virtually impossible.

In conclusion, while it remains to be seen if Palin's speech will help McCain close the current 5.2% national gap, given where the campaign was when Palin was selected, overall she has been a net drag on the Republican ticket. The reason I point this out is that constant, subjective interpretations of the quality of speeches from pundits of all stripes goes very tiring. By this point, after weeks of VP and convention analysis, the polls are the only pundits I want to hear.  


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absolutely. (4.00 / 1)
and to take it one step further:  neither bloggers nor media commentators, by and large, are undecided voters.  polls move because people on or near the fence shift one way or the other in response to some event.  

the questions following palin's speech are which way these people are going to move, and how many of them will do so.  pundits (either bloggers or traditional media commentators) are uniquely unsuited to predict the answer to these questions (because we cannot 'forget' what we already know and believe when we watch a speech).  


controls (0.00 / 0)
Just curious... does Obama do a few points better in general on Fridays than on Mondays?  Seems like McCain runs stronger in the home-on-a-Friday night crowd.  (Except Paul our intrepid weekend blogger of course.)

True (4.00 / 1)
Given Obama's huge ratings on Friday and the gushing from pundits, I thought his number would immediately jump a few points. Instead they only seemed to jump in two places -- after Hillary's speech and on Monday when Palin-drome turned to shit.

Thompson and Lieberman were so damn boring that it's no wonder the numbers are unchanged today. But I could easily see some major volatility tomorrow, as Monday's very pro-Obama numbers fall out and today's numbers roll in. Palin is a much more volatile figure in the polling, since people's minds aren't yet made up about her. So yes, with 37 million viewers she could create a nice big bump.  Get ready for the pundit circus when Palin cuts Obama's lead to zero in one day. Then again, maybe all those focus groups are right and she'll be a wash or even a negative.

I'm not too worried though. We've got the goods on Palin, and if we destroy her then McCain is finished. He's on her coattails now. Book banning, secessionist, pro-life extremist, and I can't get her sneers from last night out of my head. And just wait till she has a real press conference and SNL goes to work on her.


37 million viewers (4.00 / 2)
The large audience could actually hurt if these anecdotes from indies are typical.  

[ Parent ]
It was a talk-radio speech (0.00 / 0)

 The live crowd certainly ate it up.

 The TV viewers... maybe not so much. It was Pat Buchanan in a dress.

  I guess we'll find out in a couple of days whether the style trumped the substance, such as it was.
 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
How Many Viewers Were Obama Supporters? (4.00 / 1)
How many tuned in to know thy enemy...  I'll bet it was a lot,

[ Parent ]
Do you think (4.00 / 2)
that there's any risk of the pundits' gushing changing polling, though? I mean, is there a risk of people viewing viewing Palin's speech in a more positive light just because the television people afterward were so impressed by it?

Pundits are a really weird thing to feature as part of regular news coverage, if you consider it-- in the case of an event like Palin's speech last night, the way television works is that they show the event as it happens, and then the pundits come in and tell you what you thought about it...


Low Information Voters (0.00 / 0)
May key off of some of what the pundits seem to say, especially if they are in agreement and have little personal experience from which to form opinions.  Now, many Americans may have clear preferences, but it wouldn't surprise me if at least a few percentage points are affected by the spin.

This keys into a larger point, which is that I would wager that Palin's speech, combined with last night's attacks, really marks the beginning of the race in many ways.  These speeches, while motivating the conservative base, may have an even more substantial impact upon the liberal base, since they effectively ended McCain's flirtation with center-left Americans and left many sidelined liberals both deeply angered at Republican rhetoric and ideals, as well as somewhat worried about the state of the race.  

But then again, I may be wrong, since I'm an east coast liberal elitist who went to an Ivy (who just happens to be from rural America and who is the first person in his family to go to college).  To me, their attacks on elitism are perhaps the most enraging aspects of their message--they ridicule intelligence and the essential American dream of forging a better life for oneself.


[ Parent ]
Pundit Gushing DEFINITELY Changes Polling (0.00 / 0)
How can you even ask?

The only question is how much, and how firmly.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
This is why sometimes I only watch the pundits (4.00 / 1)
That way, I know who really won the debate/convention/etc...

I'm only being slightly facetious.  To me, the pundit-spin often matters more than the subject of the spin, since it seems that more people will be exposed to the former than he latter.

The pundits thereby create their own little self-fulfilling prophecy. "Obama must have won," for example, "because we think he's won."


[ Parent ]
Speech clips AND pundits (0.00 / 0)
Few people I know actually manage to sit through an entire speech by any politician.  

They pick it up from the clips on the news programs and get the "summary statement" from the pundits.

I'm a political junkie, so I watch the whole thing (well, unless I start getting nauseated).  Usually on C-SPAN because they don't have pundits (I get that story later) and they generally turn the cameras TOWARD the hecklers and protesters. If I'm really serious (like for a debate), I first listen on the radio, THEN go to the replay on C-SPAN.

However, when I talk with co-workers, friends, and acquaintances, they are genuinely surprised (some horrified!) that I actually listen and watch. They are incredulous when I tell them that I watched BOTH conventions. Many of these folks will self-identify as "informed voters", too.  Hell, I even tried watching the Independence Party convention, but the floor negotiations prior to the votes don't translate well to TV.

I think we have to remind ourselves that those of us who pay this much attention (and many people posting here pay MORE attention than I do!) are a small minority of the electorate. Consequently, we are in a poor position to understand how the "low information" voters see the election.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
So Far, So Good (4.00 / 6)
This is certainly a clear picture of where we've been. But the real test is going to be how well the Dems play the after-game.

I saw a good sign about 1 1/2 hours ago. I was just at a "field briefing" with Barbara Boxer that was all about the surface transportation act reauthorization for next year, but she took questions from the press afterwards.  I laid off Palin because I was there with my Random Lengths hat on, and with only one shot, I wanted it on environmental matters tied to our community.  But a CBS producer for Katie Couric was there, and he, of course, jumped right in.

Boxer lead off by lambasted McCain's judgment for picking an extremist, specifically, an anti-science extremist who doesn't "believe" in global warming, and one who courts support from a an exremist party who's founder cursed the American flag (not looking at my notes here, so the phrasing could be a bit different, but the sense is not).

She was not giving a millimeter, much less an inch, to the "she's a women, you're a women" approach, it was all "McCain's bad judgment" and "Palin's extremism."  If the Dems are all on message with this sort of response--not biting at the other side's narrative--that's a  promising sign.  Because the Rep's narrative right now is all about covering up their "Journey to the Center of the Earth"-deep contradictions.  A reformer with earmarks!  Eeeeeyyyyooooohhhhh!

(Both more and less experience, and who says experience matters anyway, unless you're John McCain?)

But the most fundamental shift, IMHO, is that from McCain owning the media because they want to marry him to McCain owning the media because they're scared to death of being called "librul! librul! librul!"

Whatever the Dems can do right now to screw up that attempted transition, from love to blackmail, will have a major impact on how the story of the last two weeks gets written and rewritten in the days and weeks ahead.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Thanks for the pick-me-up (0.00 / 0)

 I just got off the phone with a friend who's ready to move to Norway if "Americans are stupid enough to vote for that dreadful fascist woman."

 The ball is strictly in the Dems' court now. The legacy media has granted Palin complete absolution for all of her scandals and problems (geez, who could have predicted THAT), so it's completely up to the Obama campaign and the Democratic Party to remind the public that we're dealing with a deeply corrupt, out-of-the mainstream hate-filled extremist.

 I hope this unity thing wasn't a mirage.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
I love Norway (0.00 / 0)
It's a beautiful country, you feel safe everywhere you go and the people seem genuinely nice. But I would warn him that they could very well elect Siv Jensen, who's basically the Norwegian Sarah Palin.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

[ Parent ]
And they haven't been right in 24 months (or ever) (4.00 / 1)
Wrong about Hillary, wrong about Guiliani, wrong about Obama, wrong about Huckabee, wrong about McCain, wrong about divided Democrats, wrong about unified Republicans. They have been proven wrong every week at every turn and still they yammer on. Well, it's all about the space between commercials, so somebody's gotta talk about something...

In a sense (4.00 / 1)
McCain got what he wanted which was 37 million tuned in to the convention.  Can you imagine Pawlenty or Romney or Lieberman getting anything more than 20-25 million.  But he may have gotten more than he wanted because she's not garnering any positive publicity and - from the few focus groups reported on - her speech didn't play that well in Peoria (although Jerome over at MYDD seems to be truly smitten by her).  Anyway, I agree that the polls in the next week will tell us how the choice and the convention played and those polls will be more telling than all the talking heads in all the world.  

Jerome is smitten by anything that could be considered bad for Obama (4.00 / 1)
Especially as he was one of those right out the gate Friday proclaiming the selection a gamechanger.

[ Parent ]
Yeah- and when he provided his reasoning (0.00 / 0)
it relied on a construction that ignores partisan breakdowns and the dynamics of this years election.

[ Parent ]
For anyone worried about the CBS tie (0.00 / 0)
It probably under-sampled Dems, maybe by as many as 5%. Repubs were correct but too many indies.  

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