A Financial 9/11: Disaster Conservativism in Action

by: Daniel De Groot

Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 21:00


It seems like after an initial period of uncertainty by those of us who are not consummate economic experts (and even some who are, like Phd economists Duncan "Atrios" Black and Paul Krugman), the zeitgeist of the netroots has turned against the current direction of the bailout, and is coming to see it as a gigantic plunder.  I agree.

Mainly my scepticism is based on having absolutely no faith in any of the chief actors responsible for making the decisions on how to resolve this.  These are the disaster capitalists that Naomi Klein wrote about, and more specifically, this is the Bush White House where politics always dictates policy.  The only questions I have is how they will take advantage of this crisis and then how to stop them.  

Daniel De Groot :: A Financial 9/11: Disaster Conservativism in Action
Glancing at the deal, what strikes me is that the bill is not a plan, it is a hand-off of responsibility.  What will Paulson do with this authority?  Who knows?!  As one of McCain's flacks noted, there is no need to actually write down plans.  Just make Secretary Paulson the unquestioned Economic Tsar (in the full traditional meaning of the term) and consider democracy's job done.

The only way this can conceivably work, is as a massive psychological ploy to reassure the markets (and to that end, it is working, for now).  Remember, these are the people who believe that:


"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality-judiciously, as you will-we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

So it would be consistent for them to propose a solution which has no rational basis for success, and hope that a massive confidence game (aka a "con") will patch things up long enough to keep McCain in the game.  Meanwhile, the kleptocrats get to dole out history's greatest plunder to their friends.  It's win-win.

Obama's Dilemma

Ian Welsh at FDL is calling this Obama's "FDR Moment" and calling for Obama to soundly reject the deal.  That's certainly the principled thing to do, and I'm inclined to agree at least on a moral level.  However, there is a giant danger here as far as electoral politics goes:  The Republican plan here is to use the stock market as a hostage, and force the Democrats to choose this terrible plan, or see the hostage "die" as markets will no doubt come crashing down if Democrats do not allow the Paulson blank check to get through.

On the other hand, Obama can allow the plan to get through, and have the consequences of it burden his Administration, possibly choking off the very options he will need in order to turn the nation around once in office.   Digby often notes that the conservative movement can play long ball, and this is another example.  They can tolerate a 1-term Obama administration as long as they can set it up for failure and then blame it for all the problems they created.  

Still, Obama's best avenue for opposing this is the blank check aspect.  After the Iraq AUMF, the well of faith in the goodwill of this Administration should be pretty damn low.  Bush is riding at sub 30% approval, which I hope the strategy types in the Democratic party would be able to capitalize on in opposing this.

As for us, this is a game changing moment, and time for some "disaster liberalism" - people are ready to hear some new ideas, and we need to keep battering away at the decrepit Milton Friedman/Alan Greenspan ideas which precipitated this mess.  That way, the Paulson deal, even if it passes could become the last gasp of a dying ideology.  McCain isn't out there pretending to be in favour of regulation for his health:  The zeitgeist is actually shifting.  Let's give it a little extra shove.


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Isn't anyone getting the sense that populism is really starting to (4.00 / 3)
resonate?

Especially the aspect of special influence by the monied interests....I think if Obama signals that the Treasury Secretary is getting too much power with too little oversight ....it's a problem.

People are getting that oversight matters, and that blind trust in anyone or any insitution is wrong


about time (4.00 / 7)
If you get people to understand, think and explain this stuff in layman's terms and put it into here.  Here are facts.  Here is policy to address these facts.  Support this policy....

That's what America is desperate for.

On the bailout, the issue is to how to shed CDSes (default credit swaps) without the fat cats getting rich off of them.

The situation right now is this $65 trillion, unregulated market where they took absurd risks means...oops, they are too big to fail which also means these super rich hedge fund managers, CEOs and institutions cannot lose in this game.

So, how does one make them lose without nuclear economic implosion.  That is the real question here.

The other question is well plain stopping this debacle before they send the United States into so much debt it defaults.  I don't know if it can default...which is another topic of analysis.

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
Obama has to dump Rubin (4.00 / 1)
The Legacy of the Clinton Bubble

For six of eight years, Bill Clinton governed with Republican majorities in Congress. Not surprisingly, there was much continuity between the Clinton and Bush administrations. Both embraced the so-called Washington Consensus, a policy agenda of fiscal austerity, central-bank autonomy, deregulated markets, liberalized capital flows, free trade, and privatization.

--snip--

Perhaps the biggest of these bubbles was the inflated U.S. dollar, one of several troubling consequences of the Clinton administration's free-trade policies. Although Clinton spoke from the left on trade issues, he governed from the right and ignored the need for any minimum floor on labor, human rights, or environmental standards in trade agreements. After pushing the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) through Congress on the strength of Republican votes, Clinton paved the way for China's entry into the World Trade Organization (WTO) only a few years after China's bloody crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators at Tiananmen Square in Beijing.

During Clinton's eight years in office, the U.S. current account deficit, the broadest measure of trade competitiveness, increased fivefold, from $84 billion to $415 billion. The trade deficit increased most dramatically at the end of the Clinton years. In 1999, the U.S. merchandise trade deficit surpassed $338 billion, a 53 percent increase from $220 billion in 1998.



They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
Brilliant post. (4.00 / 3)
Time for a serious showdown. Will Obama blink before McCain/Cheney/Bush? We already know that Palin won't blink.

I can't say I am overwhelmed with confidence at this moment, even though I am all in for Obama. But the right move now, could win this for him. The Dems overall are a pathetic lot.


There are five words that explain this Gambit. (4.00 / 1)
Game over set and match.

It is kind of funny that a tennis phrase explains a chess term. It's time to decline the gambit.

"They pour syrup on shit and tell us it's hotcakes." Meteor Blades


Agreed (4.00 / 11)
Obama can simply state that this is far too important to handle without checks and balances, because that's precisely how the problem was created in the first place.

He can also say that we need a matching measure to bail out distressed homebuyers.

The combination of these two principles--checks and balances on the bailout process, and a bailout for homeowners as well as the finance sector--should have at least roughly 2/3rds support from the American people at large.  If he puts his full weight behind it, he wins the election going away, and probably gets a 61-seat Senate majority, too.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


I love (4.00 / 5)
the intelligence of the huge progressive-blogosphere-brain at work right before my eyes. I only hope the Campaign is reading Open Left and Kos.

[ Parent ]
And don't forget a third necessary component (4.00 / 3)
Which is full accountability for those responsible for this, and no bailout for THEM. This would be a masterstroke way for him to win over many of those "personal responsibility" Reagan Democrat types. Well, some of them, at least, who aren't total RW cultists.

Plus, some on the left want to go even further. I just got this email from Democrats.com:

Congress Must Demand Bush and Cheney Resign

George Bush wants taxpayers to pay $700 billion to bail out Wall Street for its reckless investments in mortgage-backed securities. That's on top of $800 billion for other recent bailouts, including A.I.G., Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Bear Stearns.  

The current financial disaster is the direct result of the Bush-Cheney Administration's 8-year policy of deregulation, corruption, and greed.  

The Bush-Cheney Administration cannot be trusted to solve the massive problems they created. Before Congress gives the Bush Administration one dime of taxpayer money for financial bailouts, Congress must demand the immediate resignation of George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Henry Paulson and the appointment of Speaker Nancy Pelosi as President until our next President is sworn in on January 20, 2009.  

Email your Senators and Representative and spread the word:

http://www.democrats.com/resign



"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
Sounds Good To Me. (4.00 / 1)
Immediate resignation, with no time to pardon anyone.

What's not to like?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I wouldn't like it if it ENDED with merely their resignation (4.00 / 1)
That should be just the first step. These people need to be wiped out financially, and their asses put in jail for a very long time. If it was good enough for Boesky, Milkin and Levine, then it's good enough for these goyishim ganefs.

True transformation requires some measure of justice. Not a reign of terror type of "justice", but one that is proportionate to the crimes. And their crimes are vast.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
What Part Of "No Time To Pardon Anyone" Don't You Understand? (0.00 / 0)
Kimosabe?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
The part that leaves what happens next unspecified (4.00 / 1)
Not pardoning someone and leaving them open to criminal investigation and what comes of it is not enough. There have to actually BE such investigations and serious consequences have to come of them, in terms of jail time and large fines. Nor should they be allowed to walk away with ANYTHING but the sweat-stained shirts on their back.

Capisce, mio amico?

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Based on CNN Article Comments (4.00 / 3)
people are going balistic about this proposal from both sides.  The conservatives are screaming about Socialism and the liberals are screaming about bailing out the wealthy banks.  No one likes it.

The more I think about it, the more I can't believe they actually came to the Hill with this proposal.  What were they thinking?  I agree with Josh Marshall that Hank Paulson has actually navigated his way through this mess pretty well so far but that is not going to result in this type of authority.  It is just not happening.

If Congress adds checks and balances and the ability for people to workout distressed mortgages to any bailout bill, what is the argument against it going to be?  Let the free market work.  If it did, we wouldn't be bailing it out.


[ Parent ]
The harriet miers gambit? (4.00 / 4)
The more I think about it, the more I can't believe they actually came to the Hill with this proposal.  What were they thinking?  

If they were thinking anything at all, perhaps it was that after this outlandish proposal gets rejected, the proposal they really wanted will go through a lot easier?


[ Parent ]
Sound like a winner (4.00 / 2)
How about also proposing some tax increases for the wealthiest Americans and/or for the kinds and volumes of financial transactions typical of the speculators that got us into this mess?

Given that the American people are about to finance a bailout of the financial elites to the tune of $700 billion, this seems like a good time to make sure these elites are paying their fair share of taxes.

Then, if McCain attacks Obama for increasing taxes on financial elites and speculators, he'll not only appear to be clearly in their pocket (corrupt), but also blatantly irresponsible..."so you want $700 billion to bail out your wealthy pals and cronies, but you don't have a clue how you're going to pay for it (or you want to pay for it on the back of American workers and homeowners, who are already suffering from 8 years of Republican rule."

It might also be good to flesh out some level of specifics in terms of the proposed checks and balances, particularly those that highlight the risks of abuse in ways that are politically potent (e.g., that spotlight the kind of bad actors associated with the Bush Admin and McCain).


[ Parent ]
It's always about politics with these people (4.00 / 1)
So it would be consistent for them to propose a solution which has no rational basis for success, and hope that a massive confidence game (aka a "con") will patch things up long enough to keep McCain in the game.  Meanwhile, the kleptocrats get to dole out history's greatest plunder to their friends.  It's win-win.

On Friday morning, before the details of the bailout came out, but it was clear something was coming, I speculated in the comments section that this was being done at least partly to benefit McCain's candidacy by calming the markets. I was scolded for being so cynical. It's nice to see that my cynicism is shared!


You think we would learn? (4.00 / 2)
I was listening to  Ravi Batra on the Thom Hartmann Show yesterday. He said the scam to prop up the markets has a three week life expectancy. Maybe the Dems can interject themselves in time to take credit for the crash.

[ Parent ]
The Democrats always cave... (0.00 / 0)
...except when they don't.  They didn't cave on privatizing Social Security in early 2005, despite facing considerably longer political odds back then, in comparison to now.  

Of course, people need to be vigilant against bad deals or cave-ins on a national issue with such far-reaching consequences as this one.  But Obama and the Dems clearly have a strong hand to play, so let's approach it with some confidence.


And, (0.00 / 0)
they didn't cave on the MoveOn censure.

[ Parent ]
Exception That Proves The Rule (4.00 / 1)
The odds in favor of preserving Social Security were never anywhere near being long.  If Bush had won 60-40, with privatization as a campaign centerpiece, then you'd have yourself a case.  But in the real world, not even close.

The GOP has been trying to destroy Social Security since 1936.  The Dems know from long experience--and their organized base would never let them forget it--that this is one thing they cannot compromise on and still have a party left.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Not sure I quite follow your analogy (0.00 / 0)
Does Bush have some sort of mandate for making his Treasury Secretary an economic Generalissimo?  But I'm probably just misunderstanding what you're getting at here.  

[ Parent ]
The way to oppose this seems quite simple to me (4.00 / 6)
Basically, Dems should say sure, we're all for rescuing the financial SYSTEM that our economy vitally depends on, but not the PEOPLE and FIRMS that are responsible for this meltdown. I.e. in exchange for putting up the taxpayers' (and that of their descendants) trillions to rescue this system, these people and their firms have to give up EVERYTHING that is related to this meltdown, and put their entire holdings into receivorship, as with any other bankruptcy, which is what this rescue obviously is. They will clearly have the public on their side, and the GOP wouldn't be able to use this against them politically. They could fairly easily transform what now appears to be a GOP advantage into a Dem one, and prevent this from happening. But only if they're smart enough to understand this, and have the balls to do it.

Both of which are very much in doubt, based on past performance.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


Why Should Taxpayers Pay? (4.00 / 5)
Didn't Congress agree not to fund any more programs without a way to pay for them? So let's see a 50% wealth tax on all wealth over $50 million and 25% on all wealth from $10-50 million. Even with this kind of a tax, the wealthy would probably still be richer than before the Bush tax cuts. Make the people who profited from this administration pay for its mistakes.

Obama needs the backing of his colleagues (4.00 / 1)
When it came to FISA, I gave Obama a lot of slack because I thought his congressional colleagues put him in a difficult spot.  If the best policy is to oppose the administration here - and to be honest, I'm not yet conversant enough to know this - then we need a coordinated response, rather than half of the party going in one direction and the other half in another.

Coordinated? Sure, as long as it isn't over the edge. (0.00 / 0)
This (like NAFTA, war, abortion, deficits, jobs) is not about politics.  These idiots make laws that impact peoples lives.   I'm all for Dems because I have nowhere else to go; but if Obama and the Dems don't deliver on their campaign promises (trade, jobs, health care, war, alternative fuels), they can kiss off 2010 and 2012.  Some of us older folks have been around this block too many times.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
A LOT of people on the right... (4.00 / 1)
...are really REALLY pissed at the huge debt that we are passing on to future generations.

If there was ever an opportunity for making "post-partisanship" more than condescending tripe, this is it.

If, as I expect, the Democrats fold on this, I frankly think they will be gone in ten years, thrown on the ash-heap of parties that got left behind by history.

And I fear what will replace them.  It ain't gonna be the Green Party.

Remember what Yamamoto said about waking the sleeping giant....


"it ain't gonna be the green party" (0.00 / 0)
i like challenges :)

[ Parent ]
The horrifying and really bad parts (4.00 / 1)
One possibility is that the horrifying parts (no oversight or accountability) are there to call attention away from the really bad parts (no equity for taxpayers, pure giveaway).  If there is a massive outcry, the Dems get to remove the horrifying bits and look like good guys (perhaps with a stimulus thrown in), while the neocons still get to push their giveaway through (shock doctrine, right?).

Of course, if there is no outcry, then the horrifying version can go through.

The Bernie Sanders bailout manifesto seems like a good alternative, and fits well with the principles Obama outlined.


Sanders Manifesto is Great! (4.00 / 4)
Spread the word.

[ Parent ]
I agree. (4.00 / 2)
I've been waiting for Sanders to lead on something progressive, and this is precisely what should be his alley as a bona-fide Socialist.  Who better to comment on the Republicans socializing the US debt market than an actual Socialist?

[ Parent ]
Democratic Congress (4.00 / 4)
In theory, Obama could put forward his own plan and have congress pass it.  Ok, I'm dreaming...

It's feeling like 9/11 all over again when the Patriot Act rammed down our throats.


What bothers me the most (4.00 / 3)
is that after 30 years of constant deregulation, the administration is now asking for completely unregulated authority.  This isn't a plan.  Plans have goals, and ways of achieving those goals, and limits on achieving those goals.  Plans have procedures.  This is a massive theft from taxpayers.  

I just can't believe how naked this is.  They're not even trying to dress up what their doing.  It's just taking money from taxpayers, and GIVING it to Wall Street brokers who caused this mess.  

Two things to ponder:  This is something that people of my generation (in my 20s) are going to ultimately be responsible for, but moreover, our children's generation will still be shouldering the burden for this.  And they're paying for it almost exclusively through foreign debt--that's the point of raising the debt cap to $11.3 TRILLION dollars.  Exactly what foreign government is going to help pay for this travesty?

Someone needs to go to jail.  I want my pound of flesh.


Sure It's A Plan (4.00 / 3)
This isn't a plan.  Plans have goals, and ways of achieving those goals, and limits on achieving those goals.  Plans have procedures.  This is a massive theft from taxpayers.  

Of course it's a massive theft from taxpayers.  But how is that not a plan?

Consider:

    (1) The goal is to soak the American people.

    (2) The way to do it is by ramming this through ASAP.

    (3) The limits on acheiving that goal.... well, there is this unfortunate election coming up.

    (4) The procedure is to take the money and run.

See!  I TOLD you it was a plan!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Senator Menendez statement (someone to work with) (4.00 / 4)
Major action to help rescue our economy is certainly necessary, but what disappoints me about this proposal is that it's all Wall Street and no Main Street. We can't ignore the millions of Americans who may lose their homes, and there must be accountability to protect the taxpayers. It is both unfair and unwise to throw a lifeline to banks that were irresponsible without so much as offering a hand to homeowners and some real limits on risks for the taxpayers.



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

Wall Street vs. Main Street (4.00 / 1)
Obama has been talking about helping Main Street while saving Wall Street. This might be the moment to come out squarely on the side of Main Street and take a stand against Wall Street. It's simply wrong and against the whole premise of his campaign to have the American government bail out irresponsible Wall Street investors while doing absolutely NOTHING for struggling homeowners.

What part of... (0.00 / 0)
...Obama is taking economic advice from Robert Rubin, do you not understand?

[ Parent ]
An alternative? (4.00 / 4)
I remain open-minded on some form of bailout, because the situation-if mishandled-would be dire. And we all bear some accountability for where we throw our support in the coming days. Having said that, alternatives should be aired...

I would like to offer a different proposal, based on the following assumptions:

1) The extent of the problem regarding poor investments on Wall Street is currently not quantifiable. The $700bn figure currently being bandied about as the cost of a rescue plan appears to be more a case of illustrative language than actually based on any assessment of true exposure. Therefore, we have to realize that this "comprehensive solution" that is designed to end the piecemeal approach of the last six months may turn out to be a low estimate, and therefore not a definitive solution, but a continuation of that piecemeal approach. The Take-Away: policy makers should prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.

2) Contagion from a sizable collapse on Wall Street would have a limited impact on global finance. While no doubt there would initially be considerable pain at a time when many economies are sluggish, outside of the US and UK the impact would short in duration and quickly recoverable. The Take-Away: while the value of assets in the US & UK would tumble, several other countries would still be cash-rich and asset rich.

3) The real threat to the economy-the shoal beneath the waters that was revealed on Wednesday, was not the collapse of high-profile firms, nor the drop in the markets. It was the seizure in the banking system itself, a lack of trust and transparency, that produced an extreme flight to safety and the hoarding of cash. If not dealt with, this would have drastically reduced lending to Main Street consumers and businesses, and eventually would have interrupted payment systems. The Take-Away: the real problem is not a collapse on Wall Street itself, but the damage that would inflict on Main Street.

4) The third rail-the difference between a major problem and an unrecoverable problem-is the status of the dollar. The US does not have the savings rate to sustain its own debt, and foreign banks and governments cannot be counted on to support it indefinitely. A huge outlay for a quickly put together rescue plan may spook foreign investors away from the dollar; even if they were to continue to support it, likely inflationary pressures a few years after the crisis would also damage the dollar. To combat inflation would require high interest rates, which would raise the cost of lending as well as the interest payments on pre-existing loans with free-floating rates. That puts us back right where we started. The Take-Away: the dollar must be protected at all costs, and a large-scale rescue plan threatens the dollar.

What emerges is a very clear choice: given limited resources imposed by a large national debt that may be unsustainable, do we want to save Wall Street, or do we want to save Main Street? To put it another way, do we want to save the Anglo-Saxon free market model and its power structure, or do we want to save the underlying American economy?

My solution is simple: let Wall Street "own their failure", and save Main Street through a national bank. This government-run bank would have a presence in all areas of finance, from money markets and investment banking, to consumer and business lending on Main Street. It would not replace private sector banks, but would anchor the entire system, providing security, restoring trust, maintaining an open pipeline of consumer and business lending, and would set the norms for industry behavior.

In this scenario, Wall Street would be allowed to fail, and the market would find equilibrium. Housing mortgages and student loans would be renegotiated, asset values would be re-assessed, and losses absorbed. The National Bank would ensure the continuance of economic activity as other institutions take the impact and recover. Relatively modest government expenditures would be focused on funneling credit, protecting FDIC, and shoring up pension plans. With Main Street thus protected, foreign investment would surge in to take advantage of lower asset prices (i.e., Detroit and the airlines may end up being foreign-owned), this investment would further stabilize the economy, and lead to growth that itself would lead to a recapitalization.

I wouldn't be surprised if a national bank actually became the de facto solution, if Congress does not pass a rescue plan, or if the $700bn cost turns out to be woefully underestimated. Indeed, with the nationalization of Fannie and Freddie, and the quasi-nationalization of AIG, you already have some of the pieces in place. If WAMU and especially Bank of America were to fail and be taken over by the government, you would essentially have an infrastructure for a national bank with a very broad and deep reach...it would only need to be reconstituted as one coherent entity.


Thanks (0.00 / 0)
Thoughtful commentary.  A national bank for the responsible borrowers and let the vultures suffer.  I like it.

I'm not opposed to a bailout, but it needs to be a little more spelt out than "show Paulson the money!"


[ Parent ]
Another point to consider is that... (0.00 / 0)
It wouldn't be out of the question - or even unlikely - that if American banks fail, foreign banks would step in with offers of credit to our populous.

[ Parent ]
the one criticism i have of this post (0.00 / 0)
is that i think it underestimates the actual gravity of the situation.  i have gotten screwed 1000 times for having too much faith in the actors and am, like you, well trained not to.  However, there is a distinction between pro-market and pro-rich (or particular sector/corporation) and I think that because what is going on now has the potential to create a severe recession or depression, they may have wised up a bit.

None of that is to say that this is progressive - just that the skepticism of the actors should be balanced to an extent at least with the idea that it's possible they understand the gravity of the situation.  If they're capable of such things, unlike, say, Phil Gramm.

On the other hand, I rarely lose a bet by underestimating the capacity of the Bush Administration to come up wtih sensible or fair policy solutions.


The actors admit that they have no clue what they are doing (4.00 / 1)
And that they are just panicking and trying to throw money at the problem before their life savings goes into the toilet.

Which is fine with me as long as democrats extract an appropriate pound of flesh in exchange.

For example to pay for this I would add a large tax on all short term investments.  Any investment that is sold before 5 years have passed would have its profit taxed to some extent.  Less than a year would be 60% and so on.  

That makes future speculative bubbles impossible as investors would be unable to profit from a short term distortion of the market.

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com


[ Parent ]
this is premised on the idea that (0.00 / 0)
"the actors" are the bush administration or republicans.  In fact, I think the actors here are the entire financial elite because of the magnitude of the problem, which includes virtually all Democrats and their funders, American economists, etc.  Basically anyone who doesn't want a severe global recession / depression will be taking this seriously.  These people are not the sort to consider what the potential benefits of "economic problems" are - neither am I really but at minimum it makes government intervention immediately credible on a variety of issues.  But i agree that there are stupid solutions and effective solutions to this (sort of like the people who thought of the Glass-Steagall act in the first place must have thought...not sure what those who repealed it were thinking ;)

a more useful distinction i think is what the original post pointed out - who is going to get the spoils and who will be left bearing the costs.  I'd be shocked if it weren't weighted towards the wealthy / financial insituttions, rather than a debt forgiveness programme for people saddled with high interest mortgages - but I think that the administration will actually try to solve this problem rather than exclusively use it as an excuse for their domestic policy agenda like everything else.  Maybe I'm (again) being naive about the administration's ability to grasp that things are real problems but as with most people when it affects them and their friends they probably can- even if it takes a year(!) - but Obama even if were a progressive populist would have to be kind of careful on the stance he takes on this unless he was willing to go all out and root for the collapse of capitalism.  As you can see, the second half of that sentence tells me that Obama's not going to stand against this though if he's a good politician he'll attack the right parts of it and more particularly that John McCain had no ability to see this coming.

Incidentally, I think the same problem you're pointing to is coming up with health care shortly if not already and already exists with global warming - once you win the fight over whether something needs to be addressed, then you have to actually stake out a position for which of the variuos interests that might benefit from it are actually going to benefit it.  So the message has to go from "universal health care" to "single-payer health care system" or "universal health care with lower premiums and better care" (or whatever) - so that whatever system's put in place isn't just a way of rationalizing the financing of the system (for the market), while keeping insurance companies happy making high profits and delivering low levels of service and insurance and leaving most people - including the people who get new health care and those who have had it - with really $hitty coverage.  Because you know the market's going to fight for rationaliazation and the insurance companies are going to have power to protect their stake - so who's going to fight for the person working 3 jobs whether they do or don't have health care now - to make sure that they not just get HEALTH CARE but get GOOD HEALTH CARE.  Let alone people dying in places like India of easily treatable diseases like tuberculosis and malaria.


[ Parent ]
This might do more harm than good (4.00 / 2)
Foreign investors are already pissed that the US finanical system is apparently like something out of the third world with its corruption and cronyism.  There's a reason that people are reluctant to invest in Zimbabwe.

The Paulson plan implicitly assumes that foreign investors are willing to buy out the bad debt on Wall Street.  If they don't, the dollar goes into the toilet, and any foreign investment in the US with it.

If you are holding hundreds of billions of dollars of US debt this weekend, what are you thinking?


[ Parent ]
there's different kinds of management of corruption :) (0.00 / 0)
south korea (apparently) had very usefully managed corruption in the 1960s that helped the government promote solid industrial policies and very high productivity growth.  On the other hand, there's the u.s....which has lots of high-level rent-seeking (which is just an umbrella that includes corruption -- whether legal like earmarks or illegal) but doesn't have health care like every other advanced capitalist country, has out of control defence spending, a huge debt, and a tax system (at least at the federal level) that's really skewed.  so please don't tar the whole poor part of the world with one brush or mistake corruption for a cause rather than an effect of development, because this is the problem with the world bank good governance agenda :)

i have no doubt that this plan might do more harm than good - because everything else they've done since last year has been on a spectrum of "moronic" to "half-step that doesn't address the real problem and possibly exacerbates it."   My point was mainly that they might be dealing with this not just in terms of domestic political points, but as a real issue.  When push comes to shove, perhaps even today's Republicans have a couple things they care about (like the potential destruction of the capitalist financial system) - whether they know how to fix it or not is a different matter.

to answer your rhetorical question, if i were an investor or a government that had been holding hundreds of billions of dollars in us debt at some point until this week, i would either have already sold it for oil, gold, or something along those lines or i would be clapping because i now have extraordinary leverage over the u.s. government.  this was totally foreseeable.


[ Parent ]
Now ... (0.00 / 0)
... is a good time for everyone to take a Basic Accounting course (or two or three) from their local community college.  A course in Finance would also be useful.  The GOPigs are counting on us to be ignorant.  If more Americans had a knowledge of accounting and finance, the Great Treasury Robbery of 2008 would already have been jeered out of town.

This is good (0.00 / 0)
This crisis - and the Bush admin's outrageous response - has given progressives an awesome opening to pressure Obama and all the Democrats.  Now is the time to lead; to stop this plan and give a progressive answer to the crisis.

Saying no to $700 billion that has no oversight and no regulation should be simple to sell.


The first step is for someone to write an alternate progressive plan (0.00 / 0)
With no mention or regard for the original.  Democrats should not use that plan as a base and should instead show an alternate solution .

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com


Been written by Bernie Sanders... (4.00 / 2)
We just need to promote it, post it, and e-mail it around the world.  We need to yell louder.  Have you contacted your Senator and supported Bernie Sanders plan?  

In my view, we need to go forward in addressing this financial crisis by insisting on four basic principles:

(1) The people who can best afford to pay and the people who have benefited most from Bush's economic policies are the people who should provide the funds for the bailout.  It would be immoral to ask the middle class, the people whose standard of living has declined under Bush, to pay for this bailout while the rich, once again, avoid their responsibilities.  Further, if the government is going to save companies from bankruptcy, the taxpayers of this country should be rewarded for assuming the risk by sharing in the gains that result from this government bailout.

Specifically, to pay for the bailout, which is estimated to cost up to $1 trillion, the government should:

a)  Impose a five-year, 10 percent surtax on income over $1 million a year for couples and over $500,000 for single taxpayers.  That would raise more than $300 billion in revenue;

b) Ensure that assets purchased from banks are realistically discounted so companies are not rewarded for their risky behavior and taxpayers can recover the amount they paid for them; and

c) Require that taxpayers receive equity stakes in the bailed-out companies so that the assumption of risk is rewarded when companies' stock goes up.

(2) There must be a major economic recovery package which puts Americans to work at decent wages.  Among many other areas, we can create millions of jobs rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure and moving our country from fossil fuels to energy efficiency and sustainable energy.  Further, we must protect working families from the difficult times they are experiencing.  We must ensure that every child has health insurance and that every American has access to quality health and dental care, that families can send their children to college, that seniors are not allowed to go without heat in the winter, and that no American goes to bed hungry.

(3) Legislation must be passed which undoes the damage caused by excessive de-regulation.  That means reinstalling the regulatory firewalls that were ripped down in 1999.  That means re-regulating the energy markets so that we never again see the rampant speculation in oil that helped drive up prices.  That means regulating or abolishing various financial instruments that have created the enormous shadow banking system that is at the heart of the collapse of AIG and the financial services meltdown.

(4) We must end the danger posed by companies that are "too big too fail," that is, companies whose failure would cause systemic harm to the U.S. economy.  If a company is too big to fail, it is too big to exist. We need to determine which companies fall in this category and then break them up.  Right now, for example, the Bank of America, the nation's largest depository institution, has absorbed Countrywide, the nation's largest mortgage lender, and Merrill Lynch, the nation's largest brokerage house.  We should not be trying to solve the current financial crisis by creating even larger, more powerful institutions.  Their failure could cause even more harm to the entire economy.




They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
They lied... (0.00 / 0)
They said that this could never happen again, that safeguards had been built into the system to prevent a repeat of 1929's Great Depression. They promised us that laws like the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act would put a leash on the rabid profiteering of bankers and Wall Street speculators. Stupidly they underestimated the greed and stupidity of the interlocking milieu of politicians and profiteering corporate leaders.

In the late 70's a smirking Democrat named Carter, supported by the Republicans, began to dismantle those regulations. By 1981 his deregulations led to big losses in 3,300 out of 3,800 S&Ls in bad speculative investments. About 1,000 of them bit the dust. Neil Bush, along with other rich speculators, politicians and fat cats were bailed out at taxpayer expense by the Resolution Trust Corporation to the tune of about $124.6 billion. A further $36 billion or so was stolen by increasing fees for depositors and jacking up interest rates on loans.

Reagan, the Bushes and Clinton finished what Carter started: they let the financial predators out of their cages and that started a financial feeding frenzy that quickly got out of hand. Clinton and his Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, now Obama's key economic advisor, supported the deregulatory Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial act of 1999 which sailed though Congress with enormous bipartisan majorities: 90 to 8 in the Senate and 362 to 57 in the House.

A few years ago it all began to come apart. ENRON and WorldCom disintegrated, costing tens of thousand of jobs and revealing that the big auditing were paid prostitutes, just like the politicians who deregulated them. Those lost jobs were added to the hundreds of thousands lost to predatory profiteers who shipped them overseas with the blessings of Reagan, Clinton and the Bushes.

This year the dominoes began falling in earnest. And this time it's not just a few S&L's and a few hundred billion at stake. This time its FREDDIEMAC, FANNIEMAE, AIG, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns... the list is growing, and it doesn't even include the fallout from the looming credit card crisis.

Which leaves us with no answer the the quesion "Are we in the opening stages of a new Great Depression?" It's just not clear yet, but the fact that it's a real question is an indictment of the Democrats and the Republicans and of the owners of this country.

Nero fiddled while Rome burnt. McCain and Obama are doing a duet; neither they nor anyone in their parties has a clue about how to solve this crisis. Obama's advisor, Rubin, was Clintons Treasury Secretary who promoted deregulation. McCain's economic advisors just want us to stop whining and accept wage cuts and a drop in the standard of living.

However many trillions of dollars Congress and the next President toss at the feet of the speculators who created this crisis, working people will be footing the bill. Unless there's a deep recession and a depression with stagflation, in which case all bets are off.

There's not a man in America who at one time or another hasn't had a secret desire to boot a child in the ass.
W. C. Fields.

Substitute Democratic (sic) or Republican politician for child and express it politically and you've captured the feelings of millions of Americans. They don't deserve our votes or our support. Vote for the union led and financed Labor Party or vote Socialist or Communist, or write in some one like Abu-Jamal Mumia for president or just stay home (except where things like Prop 8 are on the ballot). But don't vote for either of the lesser idiots.


They lied. Do they ever tell the truth? n.t (0.00 / 0)


They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
Wait (0.00 / 0)
I looked up the roll calls on Gramm's Glass-Steagall repeal act and Senate Dems opposed it, all except 1.

The roll call was 56-44.  


[ Parent ]
No, you wait... (0.00 / 0)
The Democrats, sniveling twits that they are, voted as you said 56-44 for the bill on the first go around. After the Republicans added a few inducements, and under pressure from Mr. NAFTA himself, Bill Clinton, spouse of Ms. Wal-Mart, Hillary Clinton, all but 8 of them voted for it.

"The final bipartisan bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15. Without forcing a veto vote, this bipartisan, veto proof legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999."

Next time read the whole Wikipedia artice before shooting off your mouth. Tell the truth, it's far more important than partisanhip.

Obama is a bigot who opposes same sex marraige.

Democrats are Republicans in drag.  


[ Parent ]
Not to be a Johnny One-Note… (0.00 / 0)
...but I swear, reading that $700 billion figure made me do a double-take, because that is precisely the amount of social outlay that the progressive economist Robert Kuttner says would offset the devastating effects of military spending in his recent book on  

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

Whoops! (0.00 / 0)
Not sure what happened to that post, but anyway, in the new book Obama's Challenge the economist Robert Kuttner suggests that an ambitious figure like $700 billion (spread over different measures, among them infrastructure renovation) would be what Obama would need to truly jumpstart the economy. Geez, it's almost as if the Bush team ripped some pages from the progressive playbook.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

[ Parent ]
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