There Is No Crisis--More Questions

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 18:00


Time to throw even more skepticism onto the pile I laid out a couple hours ago.

First, Matthew Yglesias asks why, as Bernanke claims, it is a bad thing that some firms won't participate in the bailout if there are punitive measures. I mean, if firms are in a good enough financial position to choose whether or not to participate, then why do they need help at all?

I just heard Ben Bernanke saying that there should be no "punitive measures" for companies that participate in a bailout because that might discourage firms from participating. But that would be the point, right? That if some measure of bailing out is truly necessary then the money will be provided, but it shouldn't just become handouts for bankers. Punitive measures mean that only firms that genuinely have no alternative will enter into the program, and their corrupt or inept managers will be duly punished. Firms that would merely prefer free money to no free money will, by contrast, stay out of the program and avoid punishment but suffer some financial loss. What's the problem with that?

Second, Jim Romenesko asks if the credit markets are about to seize up unless we do the bailout, then where on Earth are we going to borrow $700 billion on credit from anyway?

(Instead the money will be borrowed, so ask from whom and how this much can be raised so quickly if the credit markets are nearly seized up with fear.)

Ask this question -- are the credit markets really about to seize up?

If they are then lots of business owners should be eager to tell how their bank is calling their 90-day revolving loans, rejecting new loans and demanding more cash on deposit. I called businessmen I know yesterday and not one of them reported such problems. Indeed, Citibank offered yesterday to lend me tens of thousands of dollars on my signature at 2.99 percent, well below the nearly 5 percent inflation rate. That offer came after I said no last week to a 4.99 percent loan.

If the problem is toxic mortgages then how come they are still being offered all over the Internet? On the main page AOL generates for me there is an ad for a 1.9% loan (which means you pay that interest rate and the rest of the interest is added to your balance due.) Why oh why or why would taxpayers be bailing out banks that are continuing to sell these toxic loans?

None of this makes any sense. And I stand by my biggest piece of skepticism at all: why do we have to do this now, instead of in 119 days when we will have a new President? Apart from the rash of holiday spending that always boosts the economy during the final two months of the year, what exactly will happen in the intervening four months? Seriously, what will happen? Can anyone who isn't a pathological liar provide an answer to that question?

Maybe I should re-title this series "is there really a crisis?" I admit that there might be, but there are a lot more questions than answers at this point. In fact, I can't think of a single answer that has been made. So far, it is all a lot of arm flailing from the same people who told you about WMDs.

Chris Bowers :: There Is No Crisis--More Questions

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If they can decide not to participate (4.00 / 1)
they clearly don't need an "emergency" bailout. If the house is supposed to be on fire and you tell the guys you don't want them getting water on the rug, it ain't an emergency -- it's obviously something the owner has the ability to deal with. Evidently Bernanke sees the bailout as a kind of boutique for the financial class to peruse at their convenience. If they don't like what they see they might go elsewhere, and we can't have that.

Really, that was the single most numbingly senseless statement to come out of this whole episode.

I think the question is not just what will happen in 3 or 4 months without the bailout, but what will happen to us reg'lar folks that's worse than we've got already? That seems like it should be the mother of all the questions, but I haven't seen an answer anywhere. Maybe this is a case where Congress would serve best by living up to one of two epithets: "Do Nothing" or "socialist".


This Really IS The Iraq War All Over Again (4.00 / 2)
I still don't understand how attacking Osama bin Laden's sworn enemy was supposed to hurt him.

And until the backlog of unanswered questions about the Iraq War gets cleared up, I don't think we should even consider doing anything on this crisis con job.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


The problem (4.00 / 1)
is that is if the finance industry crashes, the credit market could lock up and businesses won't be able to get the short-term credit they need to stay afloat.  I read somewhere very recently - cannot find the attribution though, so take this with a grain of salt - that as many as 20-30% of American businesses which rely on such loans could go out of business within 4-6 weeks after such a lockup.  Its really not the financial industry per se, its the many businesses which rely on short term loans that would dry up.

The idea of a bailout is that keeping the financial sector afloat maintains the stream of credit.  I cannot comment on the urgency of such a plan, whether there are alternatives which might be more effective, nor even if such a plan would be effective in accomplishing the above (and it appears that there is some doubt in economic circles over whether that is indeed the case).

Keep the skepticism up though.  I do not believe this is the time for compromise with the Bush administration.

PS I will try very hard to find that attribution, although I'm not having much luck.  (I've read a LOT of articles on the subject recently.)


Also, the ramifications of passing a bailout (0.00 / 0)
are not clear to me at all.  There is a big question as to where the money may ultimately come from as both the American government and its citizenry are in severe debt.  Not to mention that I just read an article by Nomi Prins that argues that the Paulson plan is just another step in the escalation of bailouts and wouldn't be the last.

[ Parent ]
If this is the problem... (4.00 / 2)
then the solution is to become the short term lender for all non-financial corporations.

Set the limits, set the interest rates, and do the loans.  There should be plenty of qualified loan officers that are out of work and could work for the government.

Let the existing banks die the death they deserve.  And keep the rest of the businesses liquid.


[ Parent ]
As I've Noted Several Times (4.00 / 2)
there's a dramatically different way to do this, from fund manager John P. Hussman, Ph.D., which is to put the bondholders on the hook, instead of the taxpayers.

Here's my second stab at an excerpt that gets at the heart of the matter:

The appropriate solution is not for the government to replace the bad assets with public money, but rather for the government to execute a receivership of the failed institution and immediately conduct a whole bank sale -- selling the bank's assets and liabilities as a package, but ex the debt to bondholders, which preserves the ongoing business without loss to customers and counterparties, wipes out shareholder equity, and gives bondholders partial (perhaps even nearly complete) recovery with the proceeds.

The key is to recognize that for nearly all of the institutions currently at risk of failure, there exists a cushion of bondholder capital sufficient to absorb all probable losses, without any need for the public to bear the cost.

In addition to the obvious simplicity and lack total foolishness involved, there are two additional things to realize:

(1) The bad debts are generally a small fraction of total debts, so the bondholders can cover it.  Yes, they'll lose some value.  That's part of the risk they assume.  Not nearly as much as stockholders have lost.

(2) This method allows the market to price the bad assets, rather than one more "heckuva job Brownie" trying to arbitrarily guess what they're worth.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
It's incredible to me (4.00 / 1)
that if it is possible to put the onus on the bondholders, there is even a question of inserting taxpayer money. Of course the shareholders, then the bondholders, belong at the front of the line when we're dealing with a bankrupt company.

The Hussman Plan would also allow the government the resources to invest, if desirable, in foreclosed properties at a market rate. Seems like a win-win all around, except for those who bet on the wrong corporate crook. Can somebody explain why they are more deserving of rescue than the people who bought into "the Ownership Society"?


[ Parent ]
They are Haves and Have Mores: Bush's Base (4.00 / 1)
"Can somebody explain why they are more deserving of rescue than the people who bought into "the Ownership Society"?"


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
I'm starting to think - let them fail (4.00 / 1)
Let the whole mess go down.  Make an example of these bastards.  Make for scary stories to tell our children to keep them from growing up to be economists.

Now I've got a whole lot of money tied up for my retirement.  That might go south.  But with the stuff I'm hearing - we're opening this up to foreign banks?  - to banks that are doing well? - the Bushies have been planning this for months?  - I'm willing to take my chances.  I'd rather risk losing it all than seeing this kind of income redistribution poor --> rich.

And even if I do lose a lot... well, I'm worried far more about the consequences of passing a $700 billion ($1.5 trillion?) debt to my children.

I'm not particularly coherent right now.  I'm f'in angry.  I want to take the money from the bastards who did this, I want to see them working at Walmart, living by the railroad tracks in a single-wide.


War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; McCain/Palin 2008


Not sure about letting them all fail (0.00 / 0)
(see above), but I definitely agree that we have to remember the message of the Shock Doctrine.  There are many in the administration and Congress (Paulson not being the least) who will do their best to take as much advantage of the panic as they can.  I don't particularly like Obama and McCain's top donor list either:

For McCain, Merrill Lynch at No. 1, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Credit Suisse, UBS. On Obama, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, JP Morgan, Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley.


[ Parent ]
Yep (4.00 / 1)
A recent poll showed that the public blames the Republicans over the Democrats for this crisis by a margin of 47-24%. So if we do nothing, and the markets continue to fall, the GOP will get blamed.

If we pass a bill with real teeth that reforms Wall Street, we win.

Only if we let Bush and Paulson roll over us do we lose. We must not let the Republicans be able to enter the final weeks of the campaign running against the "Bush-Pelosi" bailout. If anything is to pass, it MUST have broad Republican support, including McCain's vote. Otherwise, screw them. Let them twist in the wind and let the voters hash it all out on November 4th.


[ Parent ]
We're asking questions. We're skeptical. (4.00 / 1)

 Is Congress?  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

Is it just me or (0.00 / 0)
is it really strange that the pickens plan says we're sending 700 billion away to oil regions, and now we're talking about the exact same number for the bailout?  weird.

It's Electric! TheOverheadWire.com

It's the Bush Legacy Crisis (4.00 / 1)
Seeing a potential market crash as the definitive nail to make him unambiguously the Worst President Ever, Bush is trying to ensure enough liquidity to kick the crisis to the next president.

Not that history is going to be kind to George W. Bush anyway, but imagine if he caps it off with a 1929-style market cataclysm.  Seriously, avoiding this may be the primary motivator...

"Don't take much, does it, elected Democrats, to get your balls tucked up." Cf.


Another Question (0.00 / 0)

Tell me why Goldman Sachs trading at $125 per share needs a bailout? Or Merrill Lynch at $26? Or Morgan Stanley at $28?

If these companies are really on the verge of bankruptcy shouldn't their stock prices reflect that?

"Don't take much, does it, elected Democrats, to get your balls tucked up." Cf.


It's critical..... (4.00 / 2)
.....they're flying around in a two year-old Lear yet.  It's very embarrassing.

[ Parent ]
All their banker buddies are laughing at them (0.00 / 0)
"What? No leather seat on the crapper?  I thought you guys were serious about making money!"


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Conspiracy? (4.00 / 3)
What is the conservative dream - burning off all government disposable income through wars, and tax cuts so there is no money for education, health care, social nets, etc.

So here we are a few months from the election of a populist president who wants money for education, health care, social nets, etc.  What better way to keep all the people programs in check - put the country so far in debt that it can't afford to heat the White House.

Has anyone seen the books of these companies?  Other than a Bush appointed, Wall Street insider's word what do we really know?  

If the White House says that Bush's pickup truck has a leak in the gas tank the price of oil shoots up $5 a barrel.  Tell investors that we are going into a great depression the market goes down 500 points.  Tell investors that there a $700 billion bailout the market goes up 500 points.  It's really that simple.

For me, it would be easer to believe that Henry Paulson has a nuclear device and will blow up Cleveland if we don't give him the $700 billion.

Wake up America, you're being had, again.


They may not want to participate! (0.00 / 0)
What....they're going to hold out for a free toaster? You're right; there is no hurry to pass this legislation.  We can re-visit it under a new Congress after we've learned a great deal more about this pig they're trying to unload on us.

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