Going on Maddow to Discuss McCain's Whoppers TONIGHT

by: David Sirota

Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 00:40


I'm going on Rachel Maddow's MSNBC show tonight at 1:45am EST (11:45pm Denver time) to go over some McCain whoppers from the debate. In the extended entry, you can see what I think were some of the most egregious ones. My overall thoughts: Obama won, but not as handily as I think he could have. He missed a huge opportunity to deliver the zinger of the night when McCain said "a lot of people might be interested in Senator Obama's definition of 'rich.'" I was waiting for Obama to hit that softball out of the park by responding that McCain's definition was people making over $5 million. But Obama seemed to shy away at times from drawing that kind of really stark contrast.

But again, I do think Obama won. McCain was clearly uncomfortable with economic issues, desperate to try to ramrod a debate over a global financial crisis into a completely unrelated discussion about earmarks. And I thought McCain's condescension repeatedly claiming Obama doesn't "understand" things made McCain look petty. My hope is that in the coming debates Obama takes it up one more notch.

David Sirota :: Going on Maddow to Discuss McCain's Whoppers TONIGHT
MCCAIN CLAIM: "American business pays the second-highest business taxes in the world..."

FACT: Page 42 of this Bush Treasury Department report found that America has the second lowest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world, as a percentage of our GDP (ie. the real way to measure this). Last month, Congressional Quarterly reported: "Most corporations, including the vast majority of foreign companies doing business in the United States, pay no income taxes, according to a Government Accountability Office report released Tuesday."

MCCAIN CLAIM: "We've got to start also holding people accountable."

FACT: What about the lobbyists in McCain's own campaign? What about Phil Gramm, the guy who passed all this deregulation?

MCCAIN CLAIM: "We have to do is get spending under control in Washington...How about a spending freeze on everything but defense, veteran affairs and entitlement programs"

FACT: Non-defense discretionary spending is at its lowest levels as a share of GDP in a generation, and are projected to be the lowest since the Hoover administration in coming years.

MCCAIN CLAIM: "We need very badly to understand that defense spending is very important and vital, particularly in the new challenges we face in the world, but we have to get a lot of the cost overruns under control."

FACT: Minutes later he said we need "a spending freeze on EVERYTHING BUT DEFENSE, veteran affairs and entitlement programs."

MCCAIN CLAIM: "I have opposed the president on torture of prisoner - Guantanemo Bay..."

FACT: The Los Angeles Times reported in February that "McCain squandered some of his moral authority by supporting the Bush administration's position that the CIA should have more leeway than military interrogators" in torturing prisoners. The Boston Globe reported that McCain "had a choice between his principles and propping up a failed president. He chose the latter...McCain, a Vietnam prisoner of war, has long condemned waterboarding as torture, making him more sensitive than President Bush on an issue that stained America's image. But the Arizona senator and virtual Republican nominee to replace Bush voted against the bill."

MCCAIN CLAIM: "If we drill off-shore and exploit a lot of these reserves, it will help, at temporarily, relieve our energy requirements. And it will have, I think, an important effect on the price of a barrel of oil."

FACT: The U.S. Department of Energy's Energy Information Agency has stated that the benefits from such drilling would be too small to have any significant effect on oil prices.

MCCAIN CLAIM: "America is safer today than it was on 9/11."

FACT: The New York Times reported in 2007: "On Tuesday, in a dark and strikingly candid two pages, the nation's intelligence agencies offered an implicit answer, and it was not encouraging. In many respects, the National Intelligence Estimate suggests, the threat of terrorist violence against the United States is growing worse, fueled by the Iraq war and spreading Islamic extremism."


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uh (0.00 / 0)
do you mean 1:45 AM Eastern?

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers


You know (0.00 / 0)
If McCain wants to claim the US is safer from another 9/11, that's something we should consider letting him do.  Bush fearmongered his way to victory in 2004, if we have a Republican stupid enough to try to lie about how safe everyone is, just ignore him.  Safe people don't vote out of fear.  

McCain on Russia (0.00 / 0)
I guess this doesn't count as a lie, but McCain's hammering away on Obama's initial reaction to the Georgia crisis -- which was "Both sides need to show moderation" -- as some sort of irresponsible gaffe, really shows he's on the crazy train on that one.

Strength (4.00 / 1)
If you get the chance to speak more generally about the debate I hope you'll consider the following.  This debate isn't about those of us who have made up our minds and are hoping that he will hit McCain with all possible arguments (I for one wish he had said something about Palin's earmarks for seal DNA research or about all of the lobbyists on McCain's payroll).  It's about the undecideds trying to figure out if Obama is going to keep their children safe.  And to me, Obama hit that out of the park.  He seemed forceful and like he could kick John Kerry's and Al Gore's asses in a fight, let alone Grandpa McCain and his old pen.  I have no doubt that if Putin got up to something in Venezuela, that Barack would show a spine of steel and would be really smart and tough, like JFK was in the Cuban Missile Crisis.  

And as for specific refutations of McCain's claims, it's really annoying to hear the Republicans say "we haven't been hit since 9/11".  First of all, we were hit on 9/11 after Bush ignored warnings -- their claim that everything has been ok since that massive screwup really is like "other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?".  But we have been hit since -- anthrax, the DC snipers, and the El Al shooter at LAX in July 2002 to name a few.

Voter Genome Project


Go get 'em, David! (4.00 / 1)
Glad you have included the Hatchett Man McCain moment.



Definition of rich. (4.00 / 1)
Sounds like McCain was trying to draw him into mentioning the $5 million thing again--I bet McCain had a zinger ready that he was dying to use.

I mean, how could they not have a response ready for that?


How About, Someone Who Owns So Many Houses They Lose Count? (0.00 / 0)
Maybe not a "definition" in the dictionary sense of the word.

But let's let McCain make that elitist argument, why don't we?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Good luck David. (0.00 / 0)
Might want to point out even Fox's focus group called it for Obama



John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


Missing the Point (4.00 / 1)
Sure, McCain offered up plenty of whoppers that Obama could have exploited. But that's not Obama's style nor his strategy (or tactics?), as should be abundantly clear by now.

You don't win a presidential debate by correcting every one of your opponent's details and/or acting like a school teacher. What's the point in arguing about the definition of "rich"? If it's just a cheap political shot, Obama isn't (usually) particularly interested. (Although for his surrogates it might be fair game.) If there's a broader issue, sure.

Take a look back at two masters: Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan. (I watched some of their debating time before watching this debate.) They did not nit pick. Obama reminded me a lot of Clinton (especially Clinton 1992) and Reagan 1980 in this debate. Clinton and Reagan were extremely disciplined in their arguments. They wouldn't swing at every hanging curve ball. They waited for the best pitches, and then they knocked them out of the park, all while staying relentlessly on message.

There's a weird disconnect between the progressive wonkish crowd -- the political footnote authors of the world I guess -- and the vast majority of Americans, particularly independent and undecided voters, who absolutely loved Obama's performance this evening. I trust Obama's instincts. He did what he had to do and well.


Softballs (4.00 / 3)
You know, I'm not at all sure Obama's manner and his deliberately not skewering McCain at every opportunity wasn't a bit planned.

McCain came of as angry and contemptuous.  That was a mistake given Obama's obvious command of the issues -- it came off as undeserved.  By taking a relatively high road, Obama emphasized McCain's anger and meanness.  At the same time, Obama twisted the knife often enough that he brought out some of McCain's trademark anger.

Or maybe not.  Maybe McCain just couldn't help being himself, and Obama missed some opportunities and it ended up looking like Obama won, anyway.  Who knows?

All I know is, according to the snap polls Obama cleaned McCain's clock when McCain absolutely, positively needed a solid win.


Another potential whopper (4.00 / 1)
David - has anyone checked McCain's claim that he repeatedly warned years ago of the dangers of recklessness in the financial markets due to deregulation?  That one didn't smell right when McCain said it.

[ Parent ]
I also don't see (0.00 / 0)
how the guy who chose Palin is justified in acting that way.



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


[ Parent ]
Cool! (0.00 / 0)
I'm staying up late just to watch you!

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


Go, David! (0.00 / 0)
Watching now.

Well done (0.00 / 0)
Just finished watching.  Nice job.  Good to see a progressive talking head on one of these shows.

Voter Genome Project

Obama won by playing it cool (4.00 / 1)
He baited McCain into getting angry while staying cool.  Thats what I thought he should have done and he did it beautifully.

More than anything it showed when it was over and McCain stalked off with barely repressed rage while Obama was completely cool.

Hitting McCain on old facts wouldn't have done very much in my opinion.  The reason why he won is because he generated new narratives about McCain.

Now Obama is the experienced statesman.  McCain is the angry contemptuous old man who couldn't even look at his opponent.

It wasn't a complete loss for McCain as he clearly differentiated himself from Bush, but it was definitely enough of a loss.

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com


if mccain had (0.00 / 0)
acted like wilfred brimley rather than angry old man he might have impressed the voters, if obama had treated mccain as he was treated he would have lost the election right here, he didn't and the voters saw for themselves that he is not a scary black man to be feared.

i don't think it is over yet but the fat lady is warming up, when the nation sees mccain completely change his demeanor for the next debate they will realize he is not the man they think he is and hopefully give obama the support he needs to close this race and change america for the better in more ways than one.  


Challenge "most liberal Senator" meme (0.00 / 0)
Perhaps you did this on TV -- I didn't stay up to see. But if you get a chance:

McCain said that "Senator Obama has the most liberal voting record in the United States Senate. It's hard to reach across the aisle from that far to the left."

Obama hardly responded to this -- he said simply that he voted against Bush's policies. Given how centrist Obama truly is, it would seem to me that we should be challenging this meme a bit more. Obama ranks 27th in the lifetime progressive score on Progressive Punch. Hillary ranks 20th and McCain ranks 60th, right above Ted Stevens.

Bernie Sanders is a very progressive Senator, but Obama is a very cautious, centrist liberal. It is only right-wing National Journal's wacky analysis that says otherwise.


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