We have uprose! (0.00 / 0)

Thanks, David, for all your hard work this weekend.

Cablenews anchors are literally shaking.  Gotta feel sorry for their stock portfolios today....

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by: TeddySanFran @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:16:55 PM CDT

Props for the prediction -- and good luck on CNN! (0.00 / 0)

I remember writing a comment here on OL when your book came out "it's the right book at the right time" ... I had no idea!

jon

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by: JonPincus @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:20:18 PM CDT

Here's what's going to come out of it... (0.00 / 0)

...a second great depression, is what... we'll see what happens, but it seems that Americans are ready to cut of their noses to spite their face.  I'm sure they will feel differently when so many wiped out retirees will be eating dog food this winter.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

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by: lord_mike @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:29:24 PM CDT

Look ... (4.00 / 3)

I don't think anyone wants another Great Depression .. there is no guarantee this bill would even prevent one from happening .. while I was okay with this bill passing .. it doesn't break my heart to see it fail .. now maybe Pelosi will show some leadership and get a real bill passed

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:36:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

David, are you familiar with Kevin Phillips thesis (0.00 / 0)

that historically there is no stopping the decline once an empire overreachs while basing it's econonmy on speculative finance?

He argues that the political leadership (both governing and opposition) is incapable of making the radical and structural reforms necessary to prevent a hard retrenchment.

What are your thoughts on that?  

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by: northcountry @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:33:32 PM CDT

Or we'll get a worse bill (4.00 / 3)

It is far too early to assume this is good news, even if the economy doesn't fall off a cliff in the next couple of hours.

I could see a more progressive bill emerging, or a less progressive one.  

I am not celebrating, personally.

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by: ThomasPaine @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:35:16 PM CDT

I'm not celebrating either ... (4.00 / 2)

... the way I look at it is that it gives a chance for a better resolution.  It's up to us.  Time to roll up sleeves and get to work.

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by: JonPincus @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:41:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

what to do? (0.00 / 0)

so what should we start doing? there seems to be a serious leadership vacumn around here, as they seem to feel they can wait until Jan - which ignores that the house will vote on another bill in the next couple days.

im for coming up with a short list of demands and then get everyone to call on those.

I also recommend perhaps only replying to comments which are focused on this most important task.

Politically smart demands to me seem to be:
* Temporarily nationalize banks to force recapitalization.
* Any direct loans or security purchases backed by PREFERRED warrants at some desirable ratio or rate of return. like the AIG deal.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 15:16:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Victory for Progressives???? (4.00 / 3)

.. it represents a real victory for the progressive movement

Can you explain how this is a victory for progressives given that the vote went as follows:

	Dem	Rep
Yea	140	65
Nay	95	133

Given the vote and that one of the main opponents of the bill was ultra-conservative Mike Pence (R-IN) it looks like a victory for conservatives to me.

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by: Curt Matlock @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:35:36 PM CDT

wha? (4.00 / 2)

So if Mike Pence likes chocolate ice cream, the progressive ice cream must be vanilla?

I think progressives have their reasons to vote against the bailout (see the basic conditions that David listed), and conservatives have theirs. Just because more of them voted "no" doesn't delegitimize the progressive reasons for voting no.  

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers

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by: kbuck @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:50:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Progressive Victory (4.00 / 1)

No. But Mike Pence and two-thirds of the Republicans voted against the bill while 60% of the Democrats voted for it. Touting a progressive victory with those facts seems to conflict with reality.

By no stretch of the imagination are progressives united in opposing the bill and it is numerically undeniable that the largest opposition came from conservatives. Trying to frame this as a progressive victory is nothing but bluster.

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by: Curt Matlock @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 14:08:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

sure thing, David (4.00 / 1)

I for one trust people like Eric Cantor and Michele Bachmann to be on the side of Main Street.  I guess you do also.  And are any of these GOP assholes gonna vote for a bill that isn't a complete and utter deregulation band-aid? No.  Any bill that passes will be all ours.  And of course, it will never be good enough for you, because nothing ever is, and we can expect more "Democrats sold us out" nonsense.  

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by: Weeferdog @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:40:33 PM CDT

I don't understand the 'nothing's ever good enough for you' attack (4.00 / 2)

Honest question. If you're happy with what you're getting, why bother engaging at all?

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by: RapsodiaStellare @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:46:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You're missing David's point (4.00 / 6)

The point he's making, which is the point of his book, is that folks like Cantor and Bachmann are in power because of a populist uprising that's rooted in economic hardship. That hardship is manifesting itself on both sides of the spectrum - by anti-immigrant evangelical crazies on the right, and by progressive internet-savvy populists on the left. They're symptoms of the same problem - a bipartisan pro-corporate kleptocracy government that doesn't care about the people.

What's interesting is whether people will ever realize that we're in the midst of this huge populist realignment.

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by: Marcelo @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:48:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

this isn't a book club or debating class (0.00 / 0)

I get your point, but pragmatism has to prevail here.  The GOP types are gonna hold out for a horrible bill and we're probably gonna give it to them.  Each successive version will now be worse than the last, given our party's proclivity for folding faster than Superman on laundry day.  Cheering for this bill's failure is the height of absurdity.  Wall Street will win; it's only a matter of the final score.

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by: Weeferdog @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 14:06:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's a possibility (4.00 / 1)

I see what you're saying. The key is to make sure the uprising takes the better form and isn't an excuse to go in the opposite direction.

I still think this bill's defeat is a good thing overall, although the shape of the next bill will be the indicator as to whether it's a progressive victory or an archconservative one.

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by: Marcelo @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 14:26:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A great victory (0.00 / 0)

that will risks economic calamity and millions of jobs.

Somewhere Keynes is shaking his head, and wondering when people on the left stopped being interested in what he had to say.

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by: fladem @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 13:54:30 PM CDT

Yup, Mike Pence and David Sirota fighting the good fight for Herbert Hoover (0.00 / 0)

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by: YuedoTiko @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 15:02:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not to be mean (0.00 / 0)

but your top 5 reasons page is beyond stupid because its all over the place and much longer than any person wants to read, even the most passionate wonk.

can we get this house in order and come up with 4 freaking bullet points to make 500,000 phones based on that will either push Dems to fully own this or also be appealing to Republican voters.

gee wiz. its like nobody knows what to do when they have have a chance to win.

2 bullets I recommend:

* Nationalize the Banks to force them to recapitalize.
* Mandatory preferred warrants for any direct loan or purchase of securities (at some desirable ratio - someone with more knowledge in the field could provide that).

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 15:11:56 PM CDT

corx (0.00 / 0)

s/phones/phone calls/

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 15:12:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

One of these days (0.00 / 0)

you'll write about this stuff without pimping your book. I have faith.

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by: Jack @ Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 15:38:42 PM CDT