Post Debate Thread

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 22:37


The debate is over. I thought McCain was terrible, and even David Brooks gave it too Obama. However, I also don't trust myself to appraise these debates from the perspective of most voters. This is especially the case for undecided voters, who I really don't get at all. So, I'll leave it to the polls and the focus groups to have the final determination.

Also, I really didn't like this debate. I didn't mind the questions, but the restricted talking time for the candidates was awful. Also, Brokaw was really annoying. I actually liked the first debate--I'd like to see more of those.

Update: CBS undecided focus group goes 39%--27% in favor of Obama. However, in terms of minds changed, it was a split. 15% now support Obama, and 14% support McCain. So, the net effect is probably zilch. At this point, that is good for Obama.

Update 2: CNN post-debate poll showed Obama winning 54%-30%. Also, Obama gains a net 8% in favorability, while McCain unchanged. So, it looks pretty good for Obama. We are three for three as a ticket so far.
Chris Bowers :: Post Debate Thread

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Post Debate Thread | 74 comments
I hated this debate (0.00 / 0)
I didn't like the format, the rules, or the moderating. I, like Chris, don't get undecideds.  
Was Matt in The Cone of Silence again tonight? (4.00 / 1)
I wish we could put Brokaw in one.
Brokaw thought he was Oprah and (4.00 / 1)
Obama and McCain were his guest. He just talked and talked.
[ Parent ]
Brokaw's... (4.00 / 5)
affection for McCain was obvious. Did Brokaw thank Obama even once at the end of any of his responses? (as he did after most of McCain's)
[ Parent ]
I think Englishlefty suggested (4.00 / 4)
the two candidates, unmoderated beyond time constraints, with a bottle of whiskey.  I would LOVE to see that.
Better Yet... (4.00 / 1)
They fence with sabers while discussing policies.  Whomever slays the other is President.
[ Parent ]
In second life! (0.00 / 0)
nt
[ Parent ]
Obviously, I'm not an undecided voter... (4.00 / 4)
But I thought Obama killed it tonight. His answers were more specific and substantive than McCain's. McCain sounded condescending, vague, and mean-spirited, and I don't think any of his attacks on Obama really hit. And I can't be the only person who felt a chill crawl up my spine every time McCain said 'my friends'.
Yeah, McCain's sucking up to the audience is embarassing (0.00 / 0)
and certainly not presidential. Plus, it annoyed many of those who are against McCain - but then, he certainly doesn't care about winning over diehard liberals. Does it at least resonate with moderates,who may think it's somewhat cordial? Dunno, I'd like to see a poll about this.
[ Parent ]
Terrible (0.00 / 0)
that debate is awful.  i think they need to bring in the steel cage and just let them go to town on each other.  maybe for the extra round, they will allow the VP's to tag in.
Obama won but I wish I thought it was this lopsided: (4.00 / 4)
"This was, I think, a mauling: a devastating and possibly electorally fatal debate for McCain. Even on Russia, he sounded a little out of it. I've watched a lot of debates and participated in many. I love debate and was trained as a boy in the British system to be a debater. I debated dozens of times at Oxofrd. All I can say is that, simply on terms of substance, clarity, empathy, style and authority, this has not just been an Obama victory. It has been a wipe-out.It has been about as big a wipe-out as I can remember in a presidential debate. It reminds me of the 1992 Clinton-Perot-Bush debate. I don't really see how the McCain campaign survives this."

Andrew Sullivan

Not exactly an unbiased take but sounds good to me.

Jesus (4.00 / 1)
Tell us how you really feel, Andrew.

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!
[ Parent ]
Gotta tell ya... (4.00 / 2)
...I didn't think this debate was very close either.  This looked pretty lopsided to me.  Not as much as Sully thinks, but we all know Obama gives him a hard-on and has for some time.  But it wasn't even close in my view, trying to think of it from the perspective of an undecided, and the focus groups seem to agree.
[ Parent ]
What Sullivan says is true, if (4.00 / 1)
you score this on logic, evidence, and argument.  McCain was trying to get the empathy of the audience by appearing to use grandfatherly persuasion.  He was posturing.  Unfortunately, in the recent past, posturing has won debates in the public mind.  Not this time, though.  Obama behaved like a reasonable man, one who has been astute enough to learn, while McCain behaved like a desperate, resentful loser.
[ Parent ]
this was probably the night McCain lost it for good (4.00 / 2)
Bad night for him.  Obama destroyed him on health care.  
Gloria Borger on CNN called it "Obama's answer" (0.00 / 0)
Hopefully the rest of the media talks it up as well.  That issue is even more lopsided in our favor (in public opinion) than the economy.
[ Parent ]
Whoops (4.00 / 2)
Borger said it was "Obama's best answer."
[ Parent ]
Wouldn't go QUITE that far (0.00 / 0)

 But health care was Obama's best moment tonight.

 Obama had a lot of good moments, and no really bad ones. McCain was OK, really, by his GOP-talking-points standards, but..."that one" was seriously bad optics.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
"That one" (4.00 / 1)
I'm not sure what people will think of that line.

It reminded me of my mom; she sometimes talks that way.  Was McCain channelling his inner Ashkenazi Jew (i.e. my mom)?

[ Parent ]
whoa (4.00 / 1)
My Ashkenazi mom says the same thing. I didn't realize it was an ethnic thing... Interesting.

The truth about Saxby Chambliss
[ Parent ]
Dog-whistle to the yentas? (4.00 / 1)
LOL.  Maybe McCain has unwittingly stumbled into a new coded appeal.  
[ Parent ]
Florida? (0.00 / 0)


The truth about Saxby Chambliss
[ Parent ]
McCain clearly forgot Obama's name (0.00 / 0)
and had to cover with "that one".


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
GOP complaining about format (4.00 / 2)
If they're whining about the format instead of spinning that it was a big win for McCain, that's basically conceding the win.

From the sounds of it, the format did suck. I am so glad I didn't watch it.

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!

Which is funny (4.00 / 2)
SINCE TOWN HALLS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MCCAIN'S FORUM...

I kind of wish Obama HAD done the Townhall's McCain proposed... He may have a 15% lead right now if he had.

[ Parent ]
CNN pundits... (4.00 / 1)
...all seem to be calling it for Obama.
Do they really need that many pundits? (0.00 / 0)
I find it hilarious that they'd have all these people sitting around, each with a laptop in front of them as if they need to chat and blog at the same time.
[ Parent ]
Poor Debate Format (4.00 / 1)
I agree.  The debate format stunk.  

There is little to no difference between Tom Brokow selecting questions from a pile of questions submitted by the audience and on-line and Brokow asking his own questions.  The editorial process of which questions are asked is the most important step.  Many of the same issues that were addressed in the first debate were addressed again in this debate.  It was repetitive.  They were milk toast questions.  I would have preferred that they not screen the questions and let selected people ask whatever they want.  That would have provided some unpredictable moments and we could see these guys think on their feet a little.  

 

Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  

Format is good... (0.00 / 0)
The rules sucked... Have a moderator ask a question and then give them 10 to 15 minutes to respond and talk back and forth with each other....  
[ Parent ]
Short response times did not work either. (0.00 / 0)
I agree they should have longer to respond.  But the town hall format was a farce.  You have people reading Brokow reviewed and approved questions.  That's not turning the people loose on the candidates.  This was the only opportunity to do that for the entire campaign.  And istead, we're turning Brokow loose on the people.  I am disappointed.

Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  
[ Parent ]
Brokaw was bad... (0.00 / 0)

 ...but not THAT bad. He cleared the Palin bar.

 I kept waiting all night for him to work in Ayers or Wright. He didn't. So I'll give him some credit for that.

   

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

Obama only got a B from me... (4.00 / 2)
since he pleaded with Brokaw for more time, spoke out of turn, and didn't answer a few questions at all.  

Fortunately, McCain got an D, as he did all of that, but also came across as old, rambled, creepy with his pacing, and really, really mean.  How could anyone connect with this man emotionally?  

yeah, they both pulled Palins at the end (0.00 / 0)
I'm not really gonna answer that but here's my closing statement.
[ Parent ]
Some of these questions were so stupid that I didn't even WANT to hear (4.00 / 2)
the answers.  Seriously.  What do you not know, and how can you learn?  Why not, if you were a unicorn, what color would you be?  Such moronic twaddle should be ignored.  Nobody gets points from me for answering questions which only show how ignorant the questioner is.
[ Parent ]
McCain is a cheez doodle (4.00 / 1)
when Obama answered first McCain repeated it all, he should wear a sign that says What He Said. When McCain answered first  it was all the Palin tactic, repeat a few words and pivot to a canned talking point.

The debate was choppy and boring, Brokaw favored McCain obviously and Obama got shut out at times. McCain was phony usually until military policy came up, then he perked up. Obama was sincere sounding a lot of the time, his answers made more sense, he was more knowledgeable and convincing.

It was not really good for either candidate, muddling through talking points and lies and rebuttals and Brokaw's ego but Obama won anyway.

format, schmormat: we need younger and sharper moderators (4.00 / 8)
Put Jon Stewart in there as moderator.
For balance, Stephen Colbert.
brilliant (0.00 / 0)
that would be awesome!  some real questions would get asked. no BS allowed.  
[ Parent ]
Howard Stern... (4.00 / 2)
I want to see THAT debate.
[ Parent ]
paris hilton (4.00 / 2)
"This question is for the wrinkly white-haired dude."
[ Parent ]
Or Larry the Cable guy. (0.00 / 0)
I refuse to utter his catch phrase, but I think I imagine what his first question would be.
[ Parent ]
he could host another VP debate (0.00 / 0)
it could be sarah palin and larry the cable guy in a race to the lowest common denominator  
[ Parent ]
MSNBC Focus Group Gives It to Obama 60 to 40 (0.00 / 0)
This is a focus group in PA.  Why go to a blue state.  Shouldn't they be in a swing state?

Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  
They didn't get the memo.... (4.00 / 1)
...that PA is no longer a swing state...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!
[ Parent ]
CNN (4.00 / 1)
The CNN undecideds are just morons...

I agree with Brian from family guy... undecided voters are the BIGGEST FUCKING MORONS on the planet.

Well (0.00 / 0)
If the least educated are preferring Obama, then we are pretty much set.  

Former Edwards Supporter, Obama Supporter since January 30, 2008
[ Parent ]
What did they say? n/t (0.00 / 0)


REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!
[ Parent ]
Dear Undecideds: (4.00 / 6)
What yitbos means is "We love you guys. You guys are just taking your time and considering all the evidence. No disrespect intended."

- Your friends as OpenLeft

[ Parent ]
3 things (0.00 / 0)
  1. The debate format sucked. 1 minute each without further exchange? What were they thinking?
  2. Both candidates seemed whiny and disrespectful at times. Obama fought with Brokaw too much. He also foolishly tried to compete with McCain in lavishing praise on the Navy officer. McCain's "that guy" line - terrible.
  3. During the high points, Obama was better than ever. He seemed very knowledgeable and confident. Presidential, not professorial.


The truth about Saxby Chambliss
"that one" (0.00 / 0)
McCain wouldnt dignify the next president by referring to him as a guy.
[ Parent ]
that one (0.00 / 0)
Yeah, that's what I meant. Really appalling - I couldn't believe it. Combined with his refusal to make eye contact during the first debate, he's starting to come off as really vicious.

The truth about Saxby Chambliss
[ Parent ]
McCain denial video (0.00 / 0)

http://snipurl.com/461nt  

McCain's no superstar.

Senator Obama... (4.00 / 7)
...told the American people tonight that health care is a "right".  He could have easily gotten away with merely saying it's a "responsibility" but chose to give the strong progressive answer.

A very minor thing, but perhaps a sign that Obama can and will rise to the transformative moment?  I liked what I heard tonight.

yes (0.00 / 0)
And when it was asked, I thought of the Ted Kennedy video at the convention. It would have been a betrayal to answer differently after that.


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.
[ Parent ]
Despite what a lot of the people here think... (4.00 / 1)
...Obama is the first democratic candidate that I remember that hasn't apologized or hid from talking like a democrat.  He's the first!  Clinton was the master obfuscator, and the others that followed him were the same, including Hillary...

Obama is the first guy in a generation that isn't afraid to say he's a democrat and for democratic principles like progressive taxation and demand side economics.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

[ Parent ]
Not a very minor thing (0.00 / 0)
Has any other presidential candidate said this as  unequivolently as Obama said this tonight? This is huge victory for progressive values!
[ Parent ]
on mandates (4.00 / 3)
Was I the only one who kept yelling "Did you watch the primaries?" when McCain kept complaining about Obama having a mandate.  I half expected Obama to say "Hillary, you were right, we might as well have a mandate since they'll attack it regardless."


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.
The Punditocracy Painfully Punts - Obama Clear Victor (0.00 / 0)
I am becoming more and more incredulous of  and exasperated with the punditocrcy on the cable channels. They feel the need to "balance" their analysis and either declare the debates a "draw" or one candidate a "close winner". Tonight is case in point and it's really infuriating.  Any objective observer knows that Obama won this debate convincingly in every aspect - content, delivery, empathy, etc.

This is getting to be silly with the William Bennetts and Pat Buchanans of the world.  Please guys, tell the truth for once - Obama won this debate going away.

Game over for Mcain.

That McCain Mortgage Non-proposal (4.00 / 1)
As Linda Douglass (Obama spokeman) suggested (or was it Rachel Maddow?), McCain's proposal is actually already a part of the "bailout" package, part of the stuff that people like Donna Edwards pushed in.

It's something that we discussed in an earlier diary on the bailout - section 109.

McCain's people seems to be continuing to discuss it as a new proposal.

Perhaps McCain should read the bailout bill first.

If Senator McCain started reading bills and other pertinent documents (0.00 / 0)
BEFORE he spoke and voted, THAT would be a real change.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
This will grow... (4.00 / 1)
The pundits are being brutal to McCain...

This is the kind of debate win that will grow over the next few days.  With all of the crap with "that one" and McCain not shaking hands, to how mockable McCain's "new" plan was, it's the kind of thing that will expand into people's heads.

And the Overhead Projector Of Mass Destruction (4.00 / 2)
So dangerous that he had to mention it twice.
[ Parent ]
Damn projectors... (4.00 / 1)
They raped my mother, and killed my father.
[ Parent ]
Tough break (4.00 / 3)
And did you hear that Obama wanted to name it "The William Ayers Pentagon Bombing Memorial Overhead Projector"?  It's true!  The Internet said so!
[ Parent ]
Check Out the Quick Hits for Late Breaking Overhead Projector News (0.00 / 0)


Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  
[ Parent ]
That is REALLY FUNNY (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
I read that he plans to invite Jerimiah Wright to bless it at installation (0.00 / 0)


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
I wonder if McCain ever learned to use an overhead projector? (4.00 / 1)
Maybe he's such an elitist that he never learned the new technology to communicate in any era.

Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  
[ Parent ]
Hmm.... (0.00 / 0)
Maybe he's so out of touch he would struggle pumping gas and working a coffee dispenser at the Circle-K.
[ Parent ]
but fo real tho (4.00 / 1)
His earmarks schtick is just coming off as weird fetishism at this point. Seriously - 26 years in Congress and this is the only way you've ever learned to talk about the economy? This is your response to global financial armageddon? It's like he's not even trying.
[ Parent ]
Although Obama didn't beat McCain in the visceral way (4.00 / 4)
in which I and I'm sure many of us wish he would and could have, the more sedate and statesmanlike way in which he did beat McCain was probably the right and smart way to do it, politically. And, honestly, no one's doing a better job of pummeling McCain viscerally than McCain at this point. Every time that he, Palin, or one of his robotlike surrogates effectively calls Obama an exotic un-American terrorist-lover, he sticks a shiv in his own side. The 20-30% of voters who respond favorably to such viciousness do not elect presidents.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton
New Button Idea (4.00 / 1)
I'm Voting for "That One"

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra
Someone beat me too it.... (4.00 / 1)
http://flickr.com/photos/copel...

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra
[ Parent ]
I think (0.00 / 0)
it really makes McCain look bad that he didn't bring up any of the Ayers BS of the last couple of days.  He let Obama talk about going after terrorists, actually killing terrorists, and not one peep about the crap Palin has been saying the last two days.  This takes away any credibility of that attack.  If you won't bring it up face to face, do you really believe what you are saying?

On a side note, did anyone notice McCain walk to the middle of the floor and look into the crowd while Obama was speaking.  It looked like someone was trying to tell him something or coach him.  

I figured he was making funny faces behind Obama's back (0.00 / 0)
but the camera angle on C-SPAN didn't show his face.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
Post Debate Thread | 74 comments
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