Presidential Forecast 10/9: Hehehehe--Wipeout

by: Chris Bowers

Thu Oct 09, 2008 at 18:45


Electoral College: Obama 338, McCain 169 Toss-up 31 (270 to win)
National popular vote: Obama 49.4%--42.9% McCain


(Dark Blue (271): Obama +7.0% or more
Lean Blue (67): Obama +2.6%-+6.9%
White / Toss-up (31): Obama +2.5% to McCain +2.5%
Lean Red (11): McCain +2.6%-+6.9%
Dark Red (158): McCain +7.0% or more
)

With Obama's base over 270 electoral votes, the swing state chart has been put on hold for the time being. Instead, I would like to muse about Obama's maximum victory. Personally, I think it is 364 electoral votes, which means the 338 he has here plus Missouri and North Carolina. Some people think that Georiga, Indiana, Montana and West Virginia are also winnable, which would give Obama 398. While Obama is running paid media and field staff in all four of those states, I still don't think he can win them. And no, I don't buy the ARG poll showing Obama up 8% in West Virginia, even if I included it in my aveages.

When it comes to offering concern troll advice to McCain and Republicans, I would recommend shutting down all paid media, and firing all campaign staff. McCain should take his remaining money, and distribute it to the RNC, NRCC and NRSC. Target a few close House and Senate seats to try and limit the damage, but otherwise save money for 2010 and 2012. When you are beaten, it is probably better to  withdraw, save what troops and resources you can, but live to fight another day. Now how's that for some concern troll advice?

State by state numbers in the extended entry.

Chris Bowers :: Presidential Forecast 10/9: Hehehehe--Wipeout
Solid Obama: 271 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
California 55 52.7% 39.3% +13.4% 3
Connecticut 7 52.7% 37.3% +15.4% 3
Delaware 3 54.0% 39.7% +14.3% 3
D.C. 3 82.0% 13.0% +69.0% 1
Hawaii 4 65.5% 29.5% +36.0% 2
Illinois 21 55.0% 37.7% +17.3% 3
Iowa 7 52.3% 41.0% +11.3% 3
Maine-AL* 2 50.7% 41.7% +9.0% 3
Maine-01* 1 -- -- +12.2% 0
Maryland 10 55.3% 38.0% +17.3% 3
Massachusetts 12 56.0% 38.7% +17.3% 3
Michigan 17 50.3% 40.0% +10.3% 3
Minnesota 10 51.0% 43.7% +7.3% 3
New Hampshire 4 52.7% 42.7% +10.0% 3
New Jersey 15 50.0% 40.3% +9.7% 4
New York 31 56.3% 38.5% +17.8% 4
Oregon 7 52.3% 40.3% +12.0% 3
Pennsylvania 21 53.3% 39.8% +13.5% 4
Rhode Island 4 46.7% 30.3% +16.4% 3
Vermont 3 57.0% 36.7% +20.3% 3
Washington 11 52.3% 43.3% +9.0% 3
Wisconsin 10 52.0% 43.3% +8.7% 4
Virginia 13 51.3% 43.3% +8.0% 4

Lean Obama: 67 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
Colorado 9 48.7% 44.7% +4.0% 3
Florida 27 50.0% 45.7% +4.3% 3
Maine-02* 1 -- -- +5.8% 0
Nevada 5 50.0% 45.7% +4.3% 3
New Mexico 5 48.7% 42.7% +6.0% 3
Ohio 20 48.8% 45.7% +3.1% 6

Toss-up: 31 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
Missouri 11 48.3% 48.0% +0.3% 3
North Carolina 15 48.4% 46.6% +1.8% 5
West Virginia 5 46.0% 47.3% -1.3% 3

Lean McCain: 16 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
Indiana 11 44.0% 49.0% -5.0% 3

Solid McCain: 158 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
Alabama 9 36.3% 60.7% -24.4% 3
Alaska 3 38.0% 55.0% -17.0% 3
Arizona 10 38.3% 53.3% -15.0% 3
Arkansas 6 41.5% 52.0% -10.5% 2
Georgia 15 43.8% 51.0% -7.2% 4
Idaho 4 29.0% 66.0% -37.0% 3
Kansas 6 36.7% 58.0% -21.3% 3
Kentucky 8 40.3% 54.0% -13.7% 3
Louisiana 9 41.5% 52.5% -13.3% 2
Mississippi 6 40.7% 53.0% -12.3% 3
Montana 3 42.3% 51.3% -9.0% 3
Nebraska-AL** 2 35.5% 58.0% -22.5% 2
Nebraska-01** 1 -- -- -16.5% 0
Nebraska-02** 1 -- -- -11.5% 0
Nebraska-03** 1 -- -- -40.5% 0
North Dakota 3 41.3% 53.3% -12.0% 3
Oklahoma 7 34.7% 61.3% -26.6% 3
South Carolina 8 39.3% 55.0% -15.7% 3
South Dakota 3 38.0% 55.5% -17.5% 2
Tennessee 11 38.0% 53.7% -15.7% 3
Texas 34 40.5% 55.5% -15.0% 2
Utah 5 28.3% 63.7% -35.4% 3
Wyoming 3 34.3% 60.3% -26.0% 3

* Maine's four electoral votes are awarded as follows: two for the statewide winner, and one for the winner of each congressional district. ME-01 is about 3.2% more Democratic than the state as a whole, while ME-02 is about 3.2% less Democratic than the state as a whole.

** Nebraska's five electoral votes are awarded as follows: two for the statewide winner, and one for the winner of each congressional district. NE-01 is about 6.0% more Democratic than the state as a whole, NE-02 is about 11.0% more Democratic than the state as a whole, and NE-03 is about 18.0% less Democratic than the state as a whole.

Methodology
The forecast is updated whenever there are enough new polls to warrant an update. The methodology for the forecast is simple and straightforward.

  1. For each state, all polls with the majority of their interviews condcuted within the last 7 days from publication of the forecast are included in the averages. There are some necessary exceptions to this rule.
  2. Every state has at least three polls, so the first exception are states without three polls that meet the previous criteria. In the event that three polls taken within the past week are not available, the three most recent polls are used. (Note: "Most recent" is determined by the mid-point in the dates of the polls. For example, a poll taken from 9/15-9/17 has a mid-pint of 9/16. In the event that more than one poll shares the most recent mid-point (within 0.5), all polls with that mid-point are included in the average.)
  3. The second exception comes with polling firms that have conducted more than two poll in a state over the last 7 days. Every polling firm only has one poll per average.
  4. No polling firm discrimination whatsoever. Polls are never excluded because the organization has a bad or partisan reputation.
  5. No pre-September polls. I'm just sick of including them.

During the final two weeks of the election, only polls taken entirely within the past seven days will be included in the averages (with the same exceptions listed above, of course).


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optimism (0.00 / 0)

When it comes to offering concern troll advice to McCain and Republicans, I would recommend shutting down all paid media, and firing all campaign staff. McCain should take his remaining money, and distribute it to the RNC, NRCC and NRSC. Target a few close House and Senate seats to try and limit the damage, but otherwise save money for 2010 and 2012.

Wow, for someone who's generally very cautious, that's certainly a bold statement. Even I'm not that certain of the outcome, and I've been predicting a Dem blowout for a long time.



The truth about Saxby Chambliss


It's concern troll advice (4.00 / 3)
And, as such, not designed to actually be helpful. :)

[ Parent ]
you're not supposed to say that! n/t (4.00 / 1)


The truth about Saxby Chambliss

[ Parent ]
"why we fight" (0.00 / 0)
Even if you're a sure loser, you still stick around and hope something truly horrible happens to your opponent. Hillary did it. Who wouldn't? Also-ran is as close as he'll ever be to emperor of the universe. No need to put the cape away just yet.

[ Parent ]
My own concern troll (kinda) (4.00 / 1)
The presidency is the only branch of government that matters.

McCain should force all GOP house and senate candidates to suspend their campaigns and send all the money to him.

Scary thing.  If it works, it will work.  Nancy and Harry will let McCain do anything he wants.  No questions asked.  Even if the Democrats control 80% of both houses.


debbie (4.00 / 1)
I hate to be a debbie downer, but these projections are way optimistic. This projection is, in my opinion, the best possible outcome for Obama. I say these projections are overly optimistic because they project some states to Obama that for the longest time have gone against him. I predict that most states that were for Obama in August & september will go for him, while the others will not. Thus, I really don't think Florida will stay Obama, but I do think virginia and colorado will...

But most of these states that you have as Obama winning are relatively close. Nevada, Florida and North Carolina could easily switch to McCain.

I do think Obama will win, but I think he'll do it by a closer margin. We'll see.


It isn't about mood (0.00 / 0)
This isn't about being optimistic or pesmistic. These are the numbers the polls show. As I noted yesterday, every other serious election forecast website agrees with these numbers. And the reason they do is because we are all reading the same polls.

[ Parent ]
Isn't anyone here worried about what happened the last two times? (0.00 / 0)
Voter suppression, hackable voting machines, initial exit polling not matching final results, etc, etc?

If Obama's current state and national leads can hold steady, it will be too difficult to explain away another stolen election.  But if his leads drop down to 3-4% by Nov 4, the gullible American public will accept it, just like they did the last two times.

This country is in a WHOLE lot of trouble right now.  But if Obama and the Dems win by as much as we're expecting, the very first thing that needs to be fixed after the economy is our election process.  Confidence in both needs to be restored as quickly as possible.  I would put the election process first, except that the economy is in real bad shape right now, and perception means a lot.


[ Parent ]
Montana's looking great (4.00 / 1)
First post-vp-debate poll has Obama within 5. Gonna need to change the color of MT by this time next week.

Great Idea (0.00 / 0)
 "I would recommend shutting down all paid media, and firing all campaign staff."

I'd fire the volunteers too!  


Meh (0.00 / 0)
I agree that McCain goose is cooked.  

However, I would argue that the very act of giving up would cause further collapse inside the GOP ranks.  Possibly leading to a break up of the three legged party that Reagan built.  Maybe four, if the Paultards also strike out on their own.  Not that I wouldn't love that, but I think it would further depress Republican voting this year and lead to even bigger Congressional losses for them.  Of course, Chris did admit he was concern trolling.  I just wonder if I would get kick off of Redstate again if I proposed something like that.

Also, don't forget that McCain's on the public dole these days... typical Republican welfare lover... and while I don't know what sort of freedom he has to spend all that public financing money we gave him (or at least what's left of it) I guessing he couldn't just give it away.



[ Parent ]
So how can we lose this? (0.00 / 0)

 The polls look very good right now. And yet somehow I get the sense that the Obama campaign has lost a little control of the narrative (not really their fault), and we might start seeing that in the polling pretty soon.

 The Republicans are firing away with all their subject-changing attempts -- ACORN, Ayers, Palin's Nuremberg rallies -- and our media (surprise!) is according them respectful coverage they don't deserve. If the Obama team doesn't deploy a counterstrategy that takes into account the media's willingness to amplify Republican bullcrap, then the long-awaited poll-tightening will happen and the map's going to get a lot redder.

 I've seen enough of the Obama campaign that I trust they've gamed this. But it's going to be bumpy...  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


But IS the GOP getting respectful coverage of this stuff? (4.00 / 2)
I've been watching Hardball, and Chris Matthews is really unloading on the Republicans for playing below the belt and trying to portray Obama as an un-American terrorist symp.  I basically never watch network news, but my sense from what I see on the web is that most big media pundits are openly talking about how the Republicans are throwing this crap out there to distract everyone from the economy, but that voters are overwhelmingly more concerned with the economy than with anything else in the election.

So I don't see much sign that they're getting anywhere with any of this crap.


[ Parent ]
He's repeating the charge. (0.00 / 0)

 Even though he's pounding the Republicans for this, he's still airing out their talking points and repeating them for free, as he expresses his objections. People still associate the words "Obama" with "terrorist".

 Of course, with the Dow taking another powder today, this might all be moot anyway.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
But when the campaign itself says something, it's bound to get out there (0.00 / 0)
Campaigns usually don't air this stuff out so directly, precisely because they don't want to take the hits from being associated with it.  That's why Bush and Rove let the Swift Boaters go out there as a third-party group, and when Kerry finally hit back and tied Bush to them, Bush immediately distanced himself from them.  In THAT case, the media blew it by allowing themselves to be used, without making Bush's campaign pay a price for it.  They credulously accepted the "independence" of the Swift Boaters.  

It's a different story when a campaign itself, all the way up to the candidate atop the ticket, is directly lobbing the hand grenades.  For the media to ignore it would be letting them get away with it, to a large degree.  Consider the fact that McCain didn't say this shit to Obama's face in the debate: it's because their campaign is still trying to straddle the line between getting this stuff out there and making themselves look even worse than they already do.  


[ Parent ]
The narrative currently is... (4.00 / 4)
...the Dow lost 678 points today...

That's all that anyone is paying attention to at the moment...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
down 678 (4.00 / 1)
Yeah, that's a real attention getter.  


[ Parent ]
Oh, props for the Surfaris reference (0.00 / 0)

 If Obama wins big every Dem blog should put that intro on autoplay. :)  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

New North Carolina Poll (4.00 / 3)
In case you missed it in this projection Chris, Civitas has Obama ahead now by 5 points in a poll taken October 6-8.  Thus, it takes into account some post-debate polling and a majority of the McCain smear attacks, which contrary to what some folks who are afraid every right-wing smear will invariably sink Democrats, shows is not working.

What people don't understand about this election is that Obama is teflon when it comes to outlandish negative attacks, especially when the they come from non-credible sources like Palin and Republicans at-large.  Obama's favorables are higher than any elected politician in the country and people have been seeing him on their televisions for almost 2 years now non-stop and like him a great deal. Further evidence of this comes during every debate when negative attacks launched against him cause dial tones to hit rock bottom.

Civitas Poll link: http://www.nccivitas.org/media...



What is Civitas' reputation? (0.00 / 0)

 Never heard of them until now. Not impugning their poll, just looking for context.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
My Advice to McCain (0.00 / 0)
This economy stuff is a downer.  Bummer city.  People don't want to hear about McCain's latest plan for the economy.  

All anyone wants to hear about is somebody named Ayres.  Obama lives in his neighbohood and once went to a political fundraiser at Ayres' house.  In fact, Ayres was a very bad boy once upon a time when Barack was 8 years old, and that darn kid did nothing to stop Ayres.  I think Ayres was a dirty hippie or something like that.  I saw an old picture of him and he needed a haircut and a shave.  Ayres, Baby, Ayres!  So follow Rush, Liddy, Hannity, Savage and all of the geniuses of the right.  It's an Ayres world.  It's all about the 1960's.  Just attack on this guy Ayres.  


Wan't he also an author? (0.00 / 0)
I thought the Republicans were all enthralled with Ayres Rand books?

[ Parent ]
I think north of 400 EVs is possible (0.00 / 0)
MT, ND, SD, NE-02, and perhaps NE-01 all are in the realm of possibility to go with IN, MO, WV, and NC. And I still think MS and GA, and maybe AR and LA, are also possible. And I wouldn't count out AZ (seriously).

McCain's true base is shrinking by the day, and is pretty much AL, TN, OK, ID, UT, WY, and AK.

I don't expect to carry most (or maybe even any) of the states I listed, but things are changing quickly. 10 or 15 Senate pickups are within the realm of possibility, so I think we could see a number of astonishing results on November 4.  


I think 375ish (0.00 / 0)
is a good target if things keep going the way they are going.

400+ would require some additional external event or another significant gaffe from McCain's Keystone Kops campaign team.  Either of which is certainly possible.  

And 10 senate seats seems unlikely but possible.  15 isn't going to happen.  


[ Parent ]
You're prolly right (0.00 / 0)
but I am enjoying the mental gymnastics right now!

Warner, Udall(NM), Shaheen, Udall(CO), Merkley, Hagan, Begich, Franken, Martin, Lunsford, Musgrove, Allen, Noriega, Kleeb, Rice. That's 15, without even mentioning LaRocco, Slattery, or that lunatic in South Carolina. It's VERY unlikely we'll pull that inside straight, but the possibility is still on the table.  


[ Parent ]
338-200... (0.00 / 0)
...is the best we can get. that includes OH, FL, VA, CO, NV, and NM. Not likely to get NC, WV, IN, or MO (IMO).

[ Parent ]
reasons to not piss on that West Virginia poll (even if it was ARG) (4.00 / 3)
1) All the other polls in that set from ARG were plausible, even slightly McCain leaning, relative to other polls.

2)Democrats have a 56-29 party ID advantage in the state.

3) No poll ever has shown McCain ahead by more than 8 points; and polls done in September when he was at his polling peak during his convention bounce had McCain around +5. Obama has gained around 8 pts. nationally since then; if he has in West Virginia, as well, he ought to be ahead there.

4) Obama has had an especially pronounced surge in PA, VA, and OH, all of which border West Virginia.

5) Nate's poll-independent demographic regression has WV as Obama +3.5. So maybe it's less Republican-leaning than our stereotype of it.

6)What's that? You say Clinton wiped the floor with Obama in the primary? Just like she did in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New York? Think Obama will have trouble with any of those states?

7) In the last four elections, relative to the national vote, WV has gone Dem +7, Dem +6, Rep +7, and Rep +10. That could be taken as the behavior of a swing state  that had a particular fondness for Clinton and also for W., on cultural grounds. But why would they have a particular affinity for McCain? (Also, note that even if the republican leaning numbers of the last 2 elections held up in this election, Obama's 6-7% national lead would have him down only 1-2% in WV.)

8) The economy the economy the economy. As mentioned above, many many West Virginians have no problem identifying with the Democratic Party. While they may often vote for a Republican president, you can bet that the economic situation is reminding them every day why it is they identify with Democrats.

In short, I think that the attitude that West Virginia is a crazy longshot for Obama has no basis in fact. And I will not be the least bit surprised if further polling bears this out.


Ralph Stanley (4.00 / 4)
I personally think it's all due to this ad.

[ Parent ]
i've been calling in WV... (0.00 / 0)
...and I encounter many callers who say something along the lines of "i'm a democrat but i won't be voting democratic if you know what i mean." yeah, it means they're racist. and believe me there aren't many new registered voters filing into WV. no democrat has gotten higher than 52% since 1992. i just don't see obama getting anywhere close to Bubba's numbers. the demographics here haven't changed that much. plus, palin is popular here. as for the economy, i wuld be willing to bet that WV has the lowest % of voters with retirement money on the stock market. i would also be willing to bet we have one of the lowest home foreclosure rates.

obama will be lucky to get 43% (kerry's number in 2004).


[ Parent ]
Do the Republicans go down with McCain? (0.00 / 0)
I have never been convinced, at any time during this campaign, that congressional Republicans like or admire McCain.  They would never say it in public, of course, but we don't see anything like the insane devotion to Der Fuhrer Bush that we saw from 2001-2006.

This leads me to wonder:  if McCain's scorched earth campaign starts to take down all Republicans, do they tell him to knock it off?  And if they did tell him that, would he do it?


McCain, imo, can do nothing to impact (0.00 / 0)
his or down ticket candidate races.  The economy, war, debt, jobs ~~everybody is pretty pissed off and squarely blaming the Republicans for all of it ~~ today.  

Knollenberg(R) was elected to MI 9 in 1992, and he is steadily losing to ran the state's lottery Peters(D) in Oakland County, MI with a big, big R.   The slaughter is so bad that the County Exec (R), a long time favorite and competent guy, is worried about losing his job because of straight ticket voters.

L. Brooks Patterson is serving his fourth four-year term as Oakland County Executive after being re-elected in 2004 by an overwhelming electoral margin. As the chief elected official of one of America's most affluent and progressive counties, Mr. Patterson presides over a $769 million dollar annual budget for FY2008 and a county workforce of nearly 4,000 full and part time benefit eligible employees.



They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
I still think (0.00 / 0)
Indiana is doable....  It will take a perfect storm, but if things continue like today, Indiana will very likely be Blue.

Will this be a first ... (0.00 / 0)

If Obama wins Ohio, and maybe Indiana, will this be the first election for a long time in which "the South" has not played a decisive role?

It is hard to define "the South", the Mason-Dixon line is the Maryland-Pennsylvania border, yet Maryland, Delaware and DC are usually now considered Northern states.

"The South" also ends at the western borders of Oklahoma and Texas.

Using the Mason-Dixon definition, Maryland, Delaware and Virginia are the only Southern states in Obama's solid 271 EVs. These were all states where slavery was legal in 1860.

But take away their 26 electoral votes and substitute Ohio with 29, and you get Obama with 274 electoral votes. If Indiana goes for Obama, he will gain all the states that voted for Lincoln in 1860, with (it is likely) DC, the Southern states of Maryland, Virginia, Delaware & Florida plus (possibly) North Carolina, Missouri and West Virginia.

So no one can argue that this win (and Obama has not won yet) is the victory of a section, or of an alliance between two sections.

Much of the electoral history of the United States has been made by an alliance between Southern politicians (usually trying to preserve a particular way of life, but also surprisingly amenable to state intervention, and super-patriotic into the bargain) with Northern parties of business or liberalism (Democrats before 1968, Republicans after that year). Is this coming to an end? Is the South moving into a "normal" instead of a particular brand of politics.


The contiguity of the electoral map is striking (0.00 / 0)


the National Popular Vote bill (0.00 / 0)
To make every vote in every state politically relevant and equal in presidential elections, support the National Popular Vote bill.

The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC). The bill would take effect only when enacted by states possessing a majority of the electoral votes (270 of 538). When the bill comes into effect, all the electoral votes from those states would be awarded to the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC).

The National Popular Vote bill has been approved by 21 legislative chambers (one house in CO, AR, ME, NC, and WA, and two houses in MD, IL, HI, CA, MA, NJ, RI, and VT). It has been enacted into law in Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, and Maryland. These states have 50 (19%) of the 270 electoral votes needed to bring this legislation into effect.

see  http://www.NationalPopularVote...

susan


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