Debate Thread Four: Joe the Plumber's Health Care and Gold Plated Transplants

by: Matt Stoller

Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 21:59


Obama wants to expand health care access and lower costs.  He wants to eliminate bureaucracy through IT spending, make families healthy and save money in the long-run.

... McCain: We need more community health centers, physical fitness programs, wellness and fitness, and a $5000 tax credit for health care.  Joe the plumber is back.

... Obama says that the cost of the $5000 tax credit is that McCain will tax your health benefits, which are currently untaxed.  And insurance companies will throw sick people off their insurance rolls.

... McCain is taking Joe the plumber's side, saying that Joe will have to buy health insurance that Obama mandates.  95% of people will receive more money, except for those people who want gold plated cadillac insurance plans for things like transplants.  WTF?

Obama clearly won the health care part of the debate.

... Now on to Roe v Wade, could either of you nominate a SCOTUS justice who takes the other side of Roe v Wade?  McCain says no on litmus tests.  Now he's bragging about the Gang of 14.  McCain voted for Breyer and Ginsburg, because he doesn't take ideology into account when voting.  Then he throws 'strict Constitution' and 'legislating from the bench'.

... Obama won't impose a litmus test but he thinks Roe v Wade was rightly decided.  Abortion is a moral issue.  He looks for judges who know what ordinary people are going through, brings up Lily Ledbetter and equal pay.

Incidentally, the plumber's union was the first union to endorse Obama.

... McCain says that Obama voted against a ban on late term abortion, voted 'present' 139 times, aligned himself with the pro-abortion movement in America.

Matt Stoller :: Debate Thread Four: Joe the Plumber's Health Care and Gold Plated Transplants

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John McCain: "Zero?!" (0.00 / 0)
The expression on his face was priceless.

Either he was terribly misinformed, or...I don't what else that could've been.


JOE!!! (0.00 / 0)
HEY JOE BE MY VICE PRESIDENT

[ Parent ]
OMG kill me now before McCain talks about Joe again (0.00 / 0)
The "Hey Joe" parody songs are already being written.

Obama is dominating on health-care (0.00 / 0)
McCain suggested a bunch of small-bore initiatives and revealed that he knew very little about the facts.

That's a keeper.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


Joe... (4.00 / 1)
is McCain's Checkers...

Joe the Plumber Sixpack (0.00 / 0)
Who the heck is this guy??

and why is McCain talking to him like he was a 6 year old? (0.00 / 0)
hilarious

[ Parent ]
and has he even ever met "joe"? (0.00 / 0)
it's bs pandering, and it's becoming annoying.

[ Parent ]
arggg (0.00 / 0)
I am going to buy health care in Canada with my 5000 dollars.

Joe, would you tell your friend John to shut up and stop embarassing us all? (0.00 / 0)
Thanks

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

Is it ironic (4.00 / 1)
that McCain's totally flatlined during the healthcare discussion.

Not sure if it's ironic (0.00 / 0)
but it's definitely not just a coincidence.

I think CNN's voters are at least somewhat following the issues. His numbers went down when he mentioned the $5000 health care credit.

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers


[ Parent ]
If were all so distracted... (0.00 / 0)
by this Joe thing, it's a good chance everybody else is...

Scheiffer had better let Obama have the last word (0.00 / 0)
on this topic.

Or at least on ONE topic. He's let McCain have the last word on every single topic so far - whether he had the first or last question. In other words, McCain has had a lot more talking time (i.e. lying time).


Yes, Obama got the last word there (4.00 / 1)
Obama dominated on health care, once again.

[ Parent ]
Good contrast from Obama on employer-based health care (4.00 / 1)
And he got the last word there.

I'm not watching this debate. (0.00 / 0)
  By the time the third debate rolls around, I despise the Republican candidate too much to watch.

John McCain lets lobbyists shape his economic policy

Oh you're missing a great deal of fun (0.00 / 0)
to see the creep feign outrage and put his hurt feelings before the hurting americans for all to see and despise and reject.

[ Parent ]
Obama voted against Justice Breyer? (0.00 / 0)
Wasn't that way before his time?

He misspoke (0.00 / 0)
Was trying to contrast his own votes for Breyer and Ginsburg against Obama voting no on Alito and Roberts.

[ Parent ]
Yes. Bryer was a Clinton appointee. (0.00 / 0)


Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  

[ Parent ]
That was a good one (4.00 / 1)
almost as good as the gold plated transplants and the cosmetic surgery - which no plan covers.

Hate to say it, looks to me like McCain is winning this debate.  


[ Parent ]
McCain trying to have it every which way on this Supreme Court question (0.00 / 0)
Desperately trying to dog-whistle on "strict construction" while bragging about voting for Clinton's nominees.

McCain: "Obama voted against Justice Bryer." (0.00 / 0)
That can't be right.  He must have meant Alito, but McCain said this twice.  

Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  

Better (0.00 / 0)
Obama is definitely improving here... McCain isn't going to win points with either side.

(off topic) EricV - (0.00 / 0)
check the previous thread. I have your answer on that Bears "prevent defense" game.

[ Parent ]
Heh (0.00 / 0)
There was a better "prevent defense" example, but it escaped my mind...

[ Parent ]
Is idiological a real pronunciation? (0.00 / 0)
I can't tell if McCain is trying to be subliminal, or if he/Americans just pronounce it entirely differently from Britons.

Also, I'm pretty sure the "Elections have consequences" line is actually stolen from Obama.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


Some people say it that way (0.00 / 0)
but it's not too common in my experience.

[ Parent ]
Obama brings up Ledbetter (0.00 / 0)
Good pivot, I think.  He's hitting McCain on this.

McCain's trial lawyer line really cut me cold (0.00 / 0)
That just appeared to reveal a basic lack of interest in people who don't at least own their firms.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

[ Parent ]
I didn't even get what he said (0.00 / 0)
He threw off some line in about 2 seconds.  It was like a wingnut drive-by shooting.  

[ Parent ]
Voting present, ritually sacrificing babies on the IL senate floor (4.00 / 1)
McCain is pumping quarters into the wingnut jukebox here.

Castellanos (0.00 / 0)
is scoring this as a draw so far: 25-24. Wow. Even a conservative hack like that can't find much to cheer about so far.

Does anyone else get the sense (0.00 / 0)
from McCain that he actually believes in the substance on all these crazy attacks on Obama? that he probably just took whatever his staff gave him and trusted that it's all true?

I mean he looks *surprised* (0.00 / 0)
quite a few times when Obama would respond in his all so calm and cool way to give these totally reasonable explanations.

[ Parent ]
Obama pivoting to preventing unintended pregnancies (0.00 / 0)
Another good pivot.  He's shifting the issues a lot better in the second half of this debate.

yep (0.00 / 0)
And McCain is probably losing a couple pro-choice women who thought he supported their position after this debate.

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers


[ Parent ]
McCain Facial Expressions: "I'm outraged you won't permit me to distort your record." (4.00 / 1)


Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  

How dare you uppity former community organizer (4.00 / 1)
dispute the words of a third-generation naval officer and gazillion-year U.S. Senator?

[ Parent ]
Neither person will say the root of our education problems: (4.00 / 2)
our fucked up funding/control mechanism for public schools based on local school districts.

Dismissive reference to 'health' of pregnant women (0.00 / 0)
McCain's getting irritated. That's good. It's just a pity Obama never tried to needle him into screaming apoplexy.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

New thread open now (4.00 / 1)
Go post there or JOE THE PLUMBER GETS IT!

Wow (0.00 / 0)
The focus group is loving Obama on education... Maxing out, men and women....

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