Debate Recap: McCain is an Angry, Sarcastic Dick

by: Matt Stoller

Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 22:32


This is John McCain rolling his eyes when Obama brings up Columbian union leaders being killed.

This debate didn't matter in the scheme of things, it was a calm and collected centrist debating a mean and sarcastic old man.

Update (Chris): I agree with Matt and, unfortunately, David Gergen (I've become everything I've ever hated!). McCain started well, but Obama closed well. In the end, I bet it won't matter. Wait for the polls--I bet we are seeing a draw. And yes, Obama wasn't very appealing to porgressives tonight.

Update 2--Obama Wins Huge (Chris): Obama scores his biggest victory yet in the debate, according to the CBS uncommitted voter group. 53%--22%! A total blowout. Huge Obama victory. Not even close.

Update 3--Obama Wins Even Huger (Chris): CNN poll shows Obama winning 58%--31%. Obama's favorables go up to 66%, and McCain's drop to 49%. With both Democratic and Republicans being oversampled (Inds are way down), can't be blamed on partisan ID. Obama has won huge huge huge. And the pundits on CNN are clearly now changing their views with the poll. Pundits are afraid to disagree with polls--kind of funny.
Matt Stoller :: Debate Recap: McCain is an Angry, Sarcastic Dick

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Debate Recap: McCain is an Angry, Sarcastic Dick | 93 comments
obama (0.00 / 0)
is the man.  lets go freaking vote already!
dang (4.00 / 1)
even david brooks is more or less giving obama the thumbs up over mccain on pbs.  not that i guess brooks has been a huge supporter of mccain but still
President Obama (0.00 / 0)
I'm calling it. Assemble your cabinet.

Two reasons Obama won:
1.) Obama had plans and policy. McCain was just flailing.
2.) McCain was, as Matt said, an angry, sarcastic dick. His body language. His tone. He looked like a jerk.

I don't like watching post-debate spin (0.00 / 0)
From a quick glance at CNN, the conservatives thought McCain won.  I guess the overall response to this debate might break down along partisan lines.
If you switch to MSNBC (4.00 / 2)
(if you get it) you can at least hear Rachel Maddow, and that's pretty good.  
[ Parent ]
My take (4.00 / 1)
a pretty clear win for McCain.

The papers tomorrow will talk of a "strong McCain showing".

But I am a former college debater and as a result completely inable to predict what other people think.  

I would have said the same... (4.00 / 2)
...if I only watched the first half hour. McCain got progressively worse throughout, and if this debate had gone on for another hour or two he may have actually bit Barack Obama.  

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra
[ Parent ]
I thought McCain's close (4.00 / 1)
was better than Obama's.

I do think McCain was good at putting distance between himself and Bush.

The last 30 minutes looked like a draw.

By the way - I think Chris are dead wrong that this debate will not matter.  There are plenty of examples where debates have, and I think this one will cause the race to close.

I spent some time looking at the partisan split in the polling today.  SurveyUSA's partisan splits are amazing and strike me as very unlikely.

[ Parent ]
Debates Matter (4.00 / 1)
I am a big advocate of the idea that these debates matter more than almost anything. Just look at the audiences. Millions upon millions of people watch these that did not follow the primaries, do not keep up on daily election news and didn't even watch the conventions. For millions, these debates are the most they will ever see of the candidates before November 4th.

The Bush line was good. But the fact remains - and has been repeated ad nasuem - that McCain wants to pursue many policies identical to Bush. It is a matter of how many people fell for McCain's line versus how many people understand that a Republican is a Republican is a Republican.

And I thought Obama closed significantly better (speaking specifically about closing statements).

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

[ Parent ]
agree w/Obama's closing (4.00 / 1)
I thought it was much, much better.  He was a calm, rational, reassuring leader.  It was very effective for me.
[ Parent ]
if the debates matter so much (0.00 / 0)
why did obama's numbers shoot up in direct correspondence to the stock market collapsing and the republican coalition falling apart?  mccain and palin are using the same tactics that bush used, his father used, reagan used, nixon used...so what's the difference and against a candidate that's much more susceptible to identity based attacks?
[ Parent ]
McCain = Bush, According to McCain (0.00 / 0)
John McCain:
The fact is that I have agreed with President Bush far more than I have disagreed. And on the transcendent issues, the most important issues of our day, I've been totally in agreement and support of President Bush....I will argue my conservative record of voting with anyone's, and I will also submit that my support for President Bush has been active and very impassioned on issues that are important to the American people. And I'm particularly talking about the war on terror, the war in Iraq, national security, national defense, support of men and women in the military, fiscal discipline, a number of other issues. So I strongly disagree with any assertion that I've been more at odds with the president of the United States than I have been in agreement with him.

[ Parent ]
But EVERY poll is showing those splits! (0.00 / 0)
Are they all wrong?

Also, I would bet more on a Selzer level of Democratic turnout rather than a Rasmussen level of Democratic turnout this year.

And just because I know you're interested in this stuff, take a look at the NC state board of elections website. They're updating daily now. Democrats now have an 810,000 voter registration edge over republicans compared to a 672,000 edge in 2004.

Obama's turnout machine is the huge ace in the hole this time.

[ Parent ]
McCain blew it completely with independent women (4.00 / 2)
Certain moments of this debate will make incredibly good motivational tools for getting out the female vote in swing states. He wasn't permitted to be ambiguous on abortion this time, and that alone would sink him, but many of his other comments are really unacceptable in the 21st century. Bush wouldn't have said some of those things (in public).
[ Parent ]
Bah, "health" (0.00 / 0)
"Health" could mean anything!
[ Parent ]
With the polls clearly showing Obama won (4.00 / 1)
it shows one thing very clearly: I do not know how to predict the reaction of others to the debate.  
[ Parent ]
Many of us have that problem (0.00 / 0)
I thought that McCain may have won a narrow victory, if only because I thought that his aggressiveness may have been viewed as a positive.  Strangely, it seems as though viewers dislike direct attacks during the debates.
[ Parent ]
Maybe the viewers only (4.00 / 1)
dislike direct attacks which are demonstrably based on lies.

I thought McCrazy undercut himself tremendously by muttering his maxims, many of which have been publicly refuted, like the line about increasing the taxes on people making $42,000.

McWhackJob makes himself look like a fool, in my opinion by talking about ACORN as a major threat to democracy, and trying to make something out of an obviously casual aquaintanceship between Obama and Ayers.  What's worse is the way McBush formulaizes these empty talking points, and what's worst of all is his outrage over things like Obama's desire for a FAIR trade pact with Columbia, Obama's insistence on exceptions to late term abortions for the health of the mother, and Obama's statement that we need more spending on autism and special needs.  The suggestion that such things are thinkable triggers anger in McNasty.  I think he makes himself look like an idiot with this response.

[ Parent ]
I'm with you (0.00 / 0)
I wanted to slap McCain, but I always want to slap lying conservatives and I thought he'd lied better than most.

Oh well. Better than being too optimistic.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

[ Parent ]
I agree ...McCain got him the first 20-30 minutes (4.00 / 1)
but Obama stayed calm.  That is all he had to do.  He proved he has the temperment to be presiient.  They know he has the intelligience to be president.  Policy wise I wasn't thrilled with some of his answers...implicitly affirming by not rebutting the Joe the plumber argument that taxes are evil....Progressive argument oppurtunity lost.

But I saw a post in Ben Smith's blog... an email from a Republican operative in total breakdown, over the fact that no matter what awful sh*(*)* they threw at Obama which they  believed, but they didn't care.  Obama could be Beelzebub,  but he wasn't George Bush or the Republican party and that was more than good enough for them.  So given that,  I am not surprised so many viewers ignored McCain's attacks and saw Obama in a positive light.  

Voting for Obama anyway

I just got an astounding e-mail from a Republican consultant I know well. He's a guy who's always thought Obama had a "glass jaw," and was always among those agitating for hitting Obama harder.
Recently, he conducted a focus group in an upper-Midwestern state, showing them the kind of ad he thought would work: A no-holds-barred attack, cut for an independent group, which hasn't aired.

I'm just going to reprint his amazed e-mail about the focus group:........

Yes, the spot worked. Yes, they believed the charges against Obama. Yes, they actually think he's too liberal, consorts with bad people and WON'T BE A GOOD PRESIDENT...but they STILL don't give a f***. They said right out, "He won't do anything better than McCain" but they're STILL voting for Obama.

.............

54 year-old white male, voted Kerry '04, Bush '00, Dole '96, hunter, NASCAR fan...hard for Obama said: "I'm gonna hate him the minute I vote for him. He's gonna be a bad president. But I won't ever vote for another god-damn Republican. I want the government to take over all of Wall Street and bankers and the car companies and Wal-Mart run this county like we used to when Reagan was President."

..........

I felt like I was taking crazy pills.  I sat on the other side of the glass and realized...this really is the Apocalypse. The Seventh Seal is broken and its time for eight years of pure, delicious crazy....



"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller
[ Parent ]
Joe the Plumber = fake populist hackery (4.00 / 3)
Think back to how a real pro like Hillary would handle stories about average Americans.  She wouldn't mention the same person EIGHTEEN THOUSAND FUCKING TIMES IN THE SAME DEBATE.
Calm and Collected Centrist (4.00 / 2)
And who doesn't like a calm and collected centrist, except for us and whatever wingnuts think Palin should be president?

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra
Abortion killing McCain... (4.00 / 6)
Laughed at exception for life of woman.
Tweety is right (4.00 / 3)
McCain is losing women in swing states tonight with his hard stance on abortion.  

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers
CNN (0.00 / 0)
Toobin is making the same point.
[ Parent ]
Exception for Woman's Life (4.00 / 8)
The discussion on MSNBC is that McCain "belittled" the exception permitting a late term abortion in order to save a woman's life.  That is going to hurt him.  Both Maddow and Matthews have made this point.  

Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  
No Exception in Republican Platform (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
McCain: Champion of Women's Rights (4.00 / 2)
I can't imagine that his dissing of Ledbetter and health exceptions for abortion will play well.  He didn't even try to sugarcoat his remarks on those issues.
Dog whistles (4.00 / 2)
Part of why Republicans have been successful is because they can hide certain unpopular views from the moderates and independents while still dog whistling their base. McCain screwed that up tonight. He would dog whistle some, but then he'd go further and say the underlying belief that alienates moderates...
[ Parent ]
Yeah (0.00 / 0)
He gave a little too much straight talk on those issues.  He tried to straddle the line with his answer re: judicial appointees, but I guess it was too tiring for him later on.
[ Parent ]
Supreme court (4.00 / 1)
That exchange was really what made it clear to me. In his response to the question McCain did a pretty good job on the dog whistle thing. He basically said "only the best, whoever they are" with some dog whistles during his first response, but then after Obama's response he went off reservation and exposed his misogyny. In some ways I think that Obama was very subtly encouraging McCain's anger and getting him to shoot himself in the foot. If it was on purpose it was masterful.  
[ Parent ]
Obama wasn't very appealing to porgressives tonight. (4.00 / 10)
He defended privacy and Roe V Wade
He brought up Ledbetter and pay equity
He talked about fair trade and enforceable environmental and labor standards
He talked about the targeting of Colombian labor leaders
He talked about providing universal health care
He defended progressive taxation

On the downside, he talked about clean coal, some off-shore drilling, charter schools, merit pay, and tort reform.

Why was this not appealing to progressives?

"Never separate the life you live from the words you speak" -Paul Wellstone

Thank you (4.00 / 1)
The difference between the size of those issues is huge also, that is, the first ones are so much more important to progressives than the latter ones.
[ Parent ]
Obama was very progressive in my opinion. (4.00 / 3)
His answer on Colombia was particularly strong.  I think Matt and Chris are being unreasonable here.
[ Parent ]
yes (4.00 / 4)
his answer on Colombia was very strong and bodes well for how he might approach U.S.-Latin American relations.  
[ Parent ]
It was a nice gem (4.00 / 3)
Some people think it is odd when the candidates start talking about lower-profile issues in these debates, but it really is nice to hear their perspectives on less discussed topics. It offers a clearer insight into their thinking than any of their endlessly repeated positions on hot-button issues. Obama scored big in my book on that one.  

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra
[ Parent ]
Its unfortunate that some of Latin America's leaders (0.00 / 0)
will be transitioning out of office shortly after Obama transitions in.

Lula in Brazil will be out in 2011 and the recent municipal elections were not great for the PT, Bachelet in Chile will be out in 2010 and the Concertacion is looking weak, and Vasquez in Uruguay will be out in 2010 and the Frente Amplio looks divided.

I think Obama could do some great things with these center-left leaders.  Hopefully they get off to a good start at the next Summit of the Americas in April and the center-left parties will bounce back before the next elections.

"Never separate the life you live from the words you speak" -Paul Wellstone

[ Parent ]
thanks (0.00 / 0)
this was a very informative comment!
[ Parent ]
agreed (0.00 / 0)
His response about free trade and NAFTA was particularly strong. It was possibly the most eloquent progressive stance I've ever heard on that issue.

Don't forget, on the negative side, he suggested that Dick Lugar would have an important role in his cabinet. SecDef?

The truth about Saxby Chambliss

[ Parent ]
I'm thinking State (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Did Obama say Lugar would be in the cabinet? (0.00 / 0)
I don't remember him saying that.  He said that Lugar was one of the people he talks to about foreign policy, along with Biden and Gen. James Jones.  
[ Parent ]
No but that is an assumption some are making (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
not explicitly (0.00 / 0)
After that comment, he said something like, "Those are the kind of people I will surround myself with if I'm elected." It sounded like a clear hint to me.

The truth about Saxby Chambliss
[ Parent ]
exact quote (0.00 / 0)
WSJ:


"Let me tell you who I associated with," Obama countered ticking off Warren Buffett, running mate Joe Biden, Republican Sen.Dick Lugar, and military Gen. Jim Jones. "Those are the people, Democrats and Republicans, that have shaped my ideas and will be surrounding me in the White House."


The truth about Saxby Chambliss
[ Parent ]
eek (4.00 / 1)
That scares me. I would be horrified Obama made a Republican our public spokesperson abroad. And even more horrified to see a Republican overseeing the CIA. What a terrible message that would send.

The truth about Saxby Chambliss
[ Parent ]
i think (4.00 / 1)
that this wasn't so much an indication that lugar would be in his cabinet, but a play for indiana voters and a reference to lugar's stated support for Obama's foreign policy approach. Just didn't explicitly make that connection.
[ Parent ]
plausible (0.00 / 0)
I certainly hope you're right.

The truth about Saxby Chambliss
[ Parent ]
Obama was plenty progressive for me (0.00 / 0)
with some exceptions.  Nuclear power. I wanted to hear him say, "I would never nominate anyone to the Supreme Court who didn't believe in Roe v. Wade."  But on the whole, I heard a candidate who took more progressive stands and more articulately stated those stands than in any debate this campaign, including the primary debates.
[ Parent ]
It is hard to name a winner after so many weeks of smears (4.00 / 2)
.. my emotions are blocking out McCain, it is hard to even listen to him, I can't make sense out of half what he says. Lies and dog whistles and indecipherable nonsense. So boring, I tune it out. And the condescending smirk stuck on McCain's face for the full debate was nasty, disgusting.

Obama's answers were right to the point, easy to get, sounded reasonable and right. A lot more interesting.

But Obama played it defensively as he could, passive sometimes, he seemed weak responding to a lot of McCain's attacks, smiling and shucking, and always being the good student raising his hand to be recognized. In the heat of the debate it seems like losing.

But Obama is playing the long game, he is so far ahead in the polls, any aggression at all would look condescending. He is like the respectful son disagreeing with his nutty grandpa. No reason to go for the kill because grandpa is harmless.

15-10 Obama.... (4.00 / 2)
...in the CNN focus group!

Yay!  That columbus focus group is tough...  this is Ohio, man...  to do that well is fantastic!

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

good (0.00 / 0)
i think that one thing this shows is the there is probably no real 'undecided' voters out there.
[ Parent ]
On CNN (4.00 / 1)
Obama wins the Ohio focus group by a 3:2 margin.
I JUST read the title of this post... (4.00 / 2)
...and I laughed a hearty, drunken laugh.

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra
I agree with Chris... and as a progressive (4.00 / 1)
there were a couple things Obama said that made me flinch... but Obama wasn't going after my vote. He was going after the Independents. Us progressives are already going to vote for him.

McCain was going after his base and the very right-leaning independents.

This debate probably won't affect the polls (perhaps it might help McCain a tiny bump). I don't think McCain "won" or Obama "won" - both did pretty well. McCain lied a lot (perhaps the fact checking will show this in the coming days). McCain's McNasty attitude didn't help - the interrupting, the dismissive behavior, the excessive attacks. Obama definitely was significantly better in the last half of the debate, especially with content AND McCain's demeanor.

Schieffer annoyed me with his almost reflexive habit of letting McCain get the last word on almost every topic. I could be wrong (I'm sure someone has stats), but it seemed like McCain got more talking time. Scheiffer should have made sure that whomever got to give the first answer for each question also did NOT get the final statement for that question. That would have been more fair, so one candidate didn't get more opportunity to rebut and get their talking points repeated.

Dodd talk time chart (4.00 / 2)

[ Parent ]
Brokaw and Schieffer are jokes ... (0.00 / 0)
Schieffer let it get out of hand ... he was as bad as Ifill as far as keeping control of things
[ Parent ]
I didn't WANT (4.00 / 1)
Schieffer to "keep control of things".  Obama got to make his point in almost every case.  The point of these debates is not to win by "observing the rules."  The point is for the candidates to state their cases, and to point out the weaknesses in the other candidate's case.  That happened.  I think Obama was fairly treated, and I don't think Schieffer showed any bias toward McSame.  I would give Schieffer an A- for this debate.  Jim Lehrer earned a B, Gwen Ifill a B-, and Brokaw an F. The last thing I want to hear is Brokaw whining that he's not being respected in the middle of a debate.
[ Parent ]
agreed (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
i think progressives should be pissed (4.00 / 1)
not because we don't understand that obama has to win an election but because we do understand that that's his role and our role is to be pissed.  he quite literally went out of his way to make sure everyone believes that he's not a progressive.  is that good strategy?  not my f@#king problem.
[ Parent ]
no (4.00 / 2)
i don't think this is accurate at all. He said many things, as documented above, that were progressive that Gore or Kerry would have been too afraid or not elegant enough to pull off. I am more and more impressed with Obama as the campaign goes on, even though I know he'll be farther right than I am. It is clear to me that his world view is fundamentally progressive in most aspects, and where it isn't, he is at least reasonable for the most part. that's pretty damn good for a national politician.
[ Parent ]
agreed again. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
that's lovely (0.00 / 0)
but we're each entitled to our own reactions, and where we're disagreeing is "where he isn't, he is at least reasonable for the most part."  Verbal or behavioral support for anti-Muslim sentiment (esp on foreign policy), warfare, "missile defence shields", "clean coal", and other areas might be necessary (according to the campaign's logic) to win the election, but that doesn't mean that we have to stand for it.  It might mean that you don't go after Obama, but you certainly don't sit idly by and wait - you find where the pressure points are and you use them, whether through the media or community organizing (the real kind), or advocacy work, or simply by speaking the truth.

The whole point of Obama for some of us is to have someone we can fight with.  Sure, I'll wait till after the election,  but that doesn't mean I'm going to be silent right now.  That takes nothing away from the fact that he is by far the best Democratic Presidential candidate in at least 20 years.

[ Parent ]
well sure (0.00 / 0)
I can agree with this. I just don't know how constructive it is to say progressives should be pissed. progressives should fight against obama (once elected) from the left. progressives should shift the national debate to the left. but progressives shouldn't be pissed at Obama for what he said in the debate (although progressives should be pissed generally that the frameworks that control these kind of things aren't more progressive, and work to fix those). To extent that the parenthetical was your point, I completely agree.

I also think it's factually inaccurate to say he went out of his way to let everyone know he wasn't progressive. He was responding to a question regarding where he disagreed with his party, and responded quite convincingly, to the point where McCain's weak "I'm not convinced by your examples" was obviously a canned talking point. In other answers, he wasn't concerned at all about letting his progressive side show. See his answers regarding the Supreme Court/abortion generally/Nafta/free trade, which I thought were quite impressive from a progressive point of view.

[ Parent ]
or to put it another way (0.00 / 0)
why is the Republican candidate talking about HOLC while the Democratic candidate favored the largely pro-market (at best) but not pro-homeowner bailout.  If McCain and the Republicans had any credibility on populist issues besides identity ones, they would have done well.
[ Parent ]
MSNBC Focus Group (0.00 / 0)
Obama did well with MSNBC's Kansas City, Missouri focus group.  They focused on the segment of the debate involving ACORN and Ayers.  I was surprised to see how well Obama did in this portion of the debate.  Even Republicans in the focus group did not support McCain when he was attacking Obama on these points.  The people interviewed said they thought that Obama adequately addressed McCain's charges and that he should have moved on to other issues.  They have heard enough and made up their mind--McCain is full of it on these flimsy guilt by association charges.

Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  
CBS/NYT poll (0.00 / 0)
said only 9% were concerned about Ayers.. gives me hope for this country, people can see through the BS.

The best thing about this debate was Obama came through as a sympathetic figure .. in the John Lewis part .. that racist violence mob frenzy from McCain's camp does hurt, even though he says it doesn't. Maybe it distracted Obama in the first half of the debate, took him a while to get back in his stride.

[ Parent ]
I agree with all the comments on women's issues (4.00 / 1)
and I doubt we hear anything more about one of the other things that really struck me, but here it is.  McCain's statement on not putting tarrifs on ethanol from Brazil sure as hell isn't going to help him in Iowa.  I don't know why he's been there anyway, but this statement isn't going to turn the tide there.  I suspect a lot of farmers aren't going to be pleased about this.    
Iowa (4.00 / 2)
His ethanol stuff surely ensured his loss in Iowa and he must have known it would, but then why the time and money there too? It doesn't make sense.

I wonder if it changes Kansas or Nebraska at all...

[ Parent ]
My thoughts exactly (0.00 / 0)
Why spend time and money in Iowa and then shit it all down the drain bringing up something that most people didn't get anyway.  If it hasn't been said enough about the McCain campaign, here it is again.  IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY FREAKING SENSE.
[ Parent ]
I agree that McCain (4.00 / 1)
undercut himself.  Here's the thing though:  on this one issue, almost alone out of all the issues, he's right.  So naturally he will take a hit from the Repigs as a result.
[ Parent ]
You are correct. (0.00 / 0)
But I have to believe that McCain's staffers groaned loudly when that came out of his mouth.  Why spend time and money in a state that they are down in and they don't need, just to come out and say something that will go over like a lead balloon in that state.  On top of that, how many voters did he attract with that same statement.  It makes zero sense.  
[ Parent ]
McCain also said he opposed ethanol subsidies in the first debate (0.00 / 0)
So it must be a talking point they're comfortable leaning on, for whatever reason.
[ Parent ]
Tone Matters (4.00 / 5)
People who think McCain did well because he was aggressive or on the attack throughout the debate need to recognize that this isn't a Mock Trial competition. McCain's tone does not resonate with the American electorate of 2008.

In times of crisis, people want leaders who are reassuring, not erratic. Barack is by far the more likable of the two candidates, and again tonight struck the exact tone to consolidate his recent gains.  

Just listening to the focus groups on CNN (Barack won 15-10 among this group, so those who were concerned about the meter dials can relax) and MSNBC, even the Republicans in the group did not like McCain's attacks. McCain still is not fluent on the economy, and is flat out horrendous on health care.  

Barack will be 44.


Matt's title for his post sums it up perfectly (0.00 / 0)
It reads more like what a commenter such as myself might write.

The only thing I would add is that McCain's disdain for the importance of women's health should really hurt him. I think I understand the point he was trying to make, but as a sound bite, it didn't come off well.

Slacking toward the apocalypse

CNN Insta-Poll (4.00 / 1)
Obama: 58%
McCain: 31%

Favorables:
Obama +3 to 66%
McCain -2 to 49%

WON ON POINTS (4.00 / 12)
I'd just like to say a big "Fuck You" to every pundit that blathers on about how one or the other candidate "won on points". I must elaborate...

A) Nobody knows what the hell that means.
B) Nobody cares.
C) You, random pundit, are not a professional debater and you are certainly not a professional debate judge.
D) Could you at least tell me how many points each candidate scored?
E) No, you can't, you're not professional debaters.
F) Nobody knows or cares what the hell that means.

and G) Isn't arguing that Guy A won on points but Guy B did better overall just a thinly veiled attempt to sound "balanced"?  

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

I grant you 100 points for that comment. (4.00 / 8)
And you did well overall, too.
[ Parent ]
mrs greenspan (4.00 / 3)
said it on MSNBC, and i felt the same way.  Madam, please go through point by point and show me how McCain got more points?  Maybe by points, she was referring to blinks, or weird jokes that didnt connect.  Or maybe she doesnt care about women dying because they were denied abortion, and finds it funny that labor organizers are being assasinated.  I get it.. points.  
[ Parent ]
I didn't know until today (4.00 / 1)
that Andrea Mitchell was married to Greenspan. I heard it referred to on TV and I was...horrified. But I'm not gonna judge someone else's grand pa issues choice of lovers. That's a lie, I am: yuck!
[ Parent ]
Overwhelming win by the "radical environmentalist" (4.00 / 1)
(ha! I laughed when McCain called Obama that).

CBS poll of independents (announced on Olbermann) calls an overwhelming win by Obama

Wow.

My heart is lighter now. Americans are finally waking up from their 9/11 funk. Bullshit, liars, and nastiness are not going to beat smart, thoughtful, honest and reasonable behavior anymore.  

The people have actually been awake (0.00 / 0)
for over two years now.  The last elections, where no  Republican challenger won, and this whole two year long campaign in which Obama slowly emerged as the consensus choice, proves that.  I just hope they stay awake for awhile, and don't get distracted by blowjobs again.
[ Parent ]
Instapolls breaking BIG Obama's way (0.00 / 0)

 Who woulda thought that. I thought McCain had won the first debate, too.

 Like someone said on a Quick Hit yesterday, I guess we blog types look for the camera angles and lighting and dissect them to death, while the general audience just sits back and enjoys the movie...  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

I thought Obama won the first narrowly (0.00 / 0)
And the second and this were ties.
[ Parent ]
Joe the Plumber was a McCain plant... (4.00 / 1)
He was on Katie Couric's online interview post-debate and so full of McCain talking points, I can't believe he wasn't bought and paid for.
if that was true (0.00 / 0)
it was a flop, like all of McCain's half-assed tricks and stunts.
[ Parent ]
I'm completely in the tank for Obama, but (0.00 / 0)
in McCain's defense, in that particular clip, he did not "roll his eyes."  He just raised his brows as if to say, "Wow."
No (0.00 / 0)
He said, "Who gives a f*ck!"
[ Parent ]
Maybe it was a sarcastic "Wow" (0.00 / 0)
But it was not an eye roll or a "Who gives a fuck?".  There is plenty enough to make McCain look bad without resorting to exaggeration.  
[ Parent ]
i'll tell you exactly what that gesture said (4.00 / 1)
"Can you believe this guy cares about human rights in South America? What a tool."

I'm not being too extreme here; really. I am sure the 40% of the country who will vote for him have rolled their eyes (or super'd their cilia) the same way.

[ Parent ]
Okay, I'll concede (0.00 / 0)
I watched some of the debate (that was my problem -- I had not seen the debate and only had the clip to go by) and McCain was definitely dismissive of pretty much everything Obama said.  So that was a dismissive eyebrow lift.

Still wasn't an eye roll, though.

[ Parent ]
Along came John (0.00 / 0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Don't let the door hit you on the way back to Arizona!

dk

We will (3.20 / 5)
have our first black Arab Muslim communist socialist Maoist president! clearly not a progressive, but hey, baby steps! ;-)
An Angry, Sarcastic Dick (0.00 / 0)
Classy to the end, Matt.  You're a credit to progressives everywhere.
Debate Recap: McCain is an Angry, Sarcastic Dick | 93 comments
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