Presidential Forecast, October 24th

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Oct 24, 2008 at 12:53


Electoral College: Obama 317, McCain 157 Toss-up 64 (270 to win)
National popular vote: Obama 50.9%--42.7% McCain


(Dark Blue (264): Obama +7.0% or more
Lean Blue (53): Obama +2.6%-+6.9%
White / Toss-up (64): Obama +2.5% to McCain +2.5%
Lean Red (16): McCain +2.6%-+6.9%
Dark Red (141): McCain +7.0% or more
)

Here is the new targeting and swing state chart:

Targeting and Swing State Chart
States not shown here are further in either direction
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin Polls Obama EVs
Obama Lock 206 206
Iowa 7 52.0% 39.0% +13.0% 1 213
Minnesota 10 53.0% 40.8% +12.2% 5 223
Wisconsin 10 52.0% 40.8% +11.2% 5 233
Maine-02 1 52.0% 41.0% +11.0% 1 234
Pennsylvania 21 51.6% 41.0% +10.6% 7 255
New Mexico 5 55.5% 43.5% +10.0% 2* 260
New Hampshire 4 50.0% 43.0% +7.0% 1 264
Virginia 13 50.7% 44.7% +6.0% 3 277
Ohio 20 49.4% 44.0% +5.4% 8 297
Colorado 9 51.0% 46.0% +5.0% 2 306
Indiana 11 49.3% 44.3% +5.0% 3 317
Nevada 5 49.0% 46.5% +2.5% 2 322
North Carolina 15 48.9% 46.7% +2.2% 7 337
Missouri 11 46.5% 44.5% +2.0% 2 348
Florida 27 47.6% 46.1% 1.5% 7 375
Montana 3 44.4% 44.5% 2 378
North Dakota 3 45.0% 45.0% Even 1* 381
Georgia 15 45.8% 48.8% -3.0% 4 396
Nebraska-02 1 44.0% 48.0% -4.0% 1 397
South Dakota 3 41.0% 48.0% -7.0% 1* 400
West Virginia 5 42.8% 50.2% -7.4% 5 405
Lock McCain 133 538
* = Poll or polls more than one week old

As good as these numbers look, it should be pointed out that Obama only has undisputed poll leads in states worth 286 electoral votes (the Kerry states plus Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico and Virginia). In every other state where Obama leads, at least one recent poll shows McCain narrowly ahead. Combine this with reports that Republicans aren't actually doing so poorly in Colorado early voting, and that leaves only Virginia as a clear firewall.

I point this out not to scare people or be a concern troll, but simply to show that there are a few glimmers of hope for McCain, and we can't take anything for granted. No matter how great things look overall, there are a few polls and a couple of early voting numbers that look decent for McCain, and which can get him up to about 261 EV's without Virginia or Pennsylvania. Even fivethirtyeight.com shows McCain with a 3.7% chance of winning. So, things look good, but that doesn't mean it is over.

Chris Bowers :: Presidential Forecast, October 24th
Methodology
The methodology for the forecast is simple and straightforward.
  1. For each state, all polls with the majority of their interviews conducted within the last 7 days from publication of the forecast are included in the averages. There are some necessary exceptions to this rule.
  2. Every state has at least one poll. In the event that one poll taken within the past week are not available, the most recent polls are used. (Note: "Most recent" is determined by the mid-point in the dates of the polls. For example, a poll taken from 9/15-9/17 has a mid-pint of 9/16. In the event that more than one poll shares the most recent mid-point (within 0.5), all polls with that mid-point are included in the average.)
  3. The second exception comes with polling firms that have conducted more than two poll in a state over the last 7 days. Every polling firm only has one poll per average.
  4. All telephone polls are included with equal weight. However, no Internet polls are used.

During the final two weeks of the election, only polls taken entirely within the past seven days will be included in the averages (with the same exceptions listed above, of course).


Tags: , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Colorado (0.00 / 0)
Chris,

Someone wrote about how Colorado is bad news for McCain because the GOP always have an absentee voter advantage of 60-40 but this time it is tied. Also, in person early voting and election day voting tends to be won by dems. I wish I could find the article again but the person said that Obama will probably go into election day with a 7 point lead at this rate which will be all but impossible for McCain to overcome.


The Obama poll lead was always based on indies anyway (0.00 / 0)
"Colorado: More than 150,000 people have voted absentee by mail. The party ratio - 81,000 Republicans, 76,000 Democrats - roughly matches overall registration."

And there are a lot of indies in Colorado.  


[ Parent ]
McCain is Giving Up On Colorado! (0.00 / 0)
There is no "slight chance" for McCain because he'd have to win Colorado and he's given up on the state!

Despite McCain and Palin making campaign appearances here, and the McCain campaign talking about "fighting" for the state, actions speak louder than words!

McCain is PULLING his ads!

Election cash leaves Colorado
By Karen E. Crummy
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 10/23/2008 09:14:03 AM MDT

Despite assertions that it was not cutting back on resources in the state, John McCain's presidential campaign has drastically slashed television advertising at Colorado's big three stations. . . .

McCain, who trails Barack Obama by an average of 5 percentage points in Colorado polls, this week bought a total of $305,550 worth of ads at KUSA-Channel 9, KCNC-Channel 4 and KMGH-Channel 7, according to records. That is a 46 percent decrease from the week before and a 56 percent slide from two weeks ago.

For the final eight days of the campaign season, McCain has purchased a little more than $50,000 of ad time at Channel 4 and $67,000 at Channel 9, which is watched by 40 percent of the market. McCain had not purchased ad time for those days at Channel 7 as of Wednesday.

By comparison, Obama has purchased more than $500,000 worth of advertising at Channel 4 and Channel 9 for the final week. Add on the $287,700 he has laid out for ads at Channel 7, and it's nearly seven times what McCain is spending.

Campaigns often adjust their advertising buys based on priorities and can subtract or add, as long as the stations have slots available.

"What this means is that the McCain campaign has sparse resources and is beginning to write places off," said Jennifer Duffy, managing editor of the nonpartisan Cook Political Report. "Colorado polling is consistently looking bad for McCain. So it doesn't surprise me that they are putting their resources elsewhere."

If McCain seriously thought he had a chance in Colorado he certainly WOULDN'T be pulling his advertising and letting Obama have a 7 to 1 advertising advantage in the last 2 weeks! He knows that he can't stop the bleeding everywhere, so he has to doing something drastic!

McCain is putting all his hopes into winning Pennsylvania, not because it's particularly close (his own advisers say their internal polling shows an 8% Obama lead), but because he expects to lose at least 1 of Colorado, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Florida, or most probably Virginia. If he doesn't flip Pennsylvania then he loses automatically if Obama wins ANY of those states.


[ Parent ]
I think 60-40 was nationwide (0.00 / 0)
Not in Colorado. I don't know wht the traditional Colorado numbers are.

[ Parent ]
No (0.00 / 0)
The article was specifically about Colorado.  I've heard this before that Reps were usually far ahead in absentee voting in Colorado.

This explains why McCain's team doesn't feel confident about Colorado even though they are behind by less there than in PA.


[ Parent ]
New quote from Ridge backs that up (0.00 / 0)
"Unless we win Pennsylvania, I don't think McCain is elected president."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/...


[ Parent ]
Ridge is Right! (0.00 / 0)
The electoral math is simple.

McCain has written off both Iowa and New Mexico as unwinnable. Neither has been close for months now.

None of the Kerry states is closer than 5% either and Michigan (where McCain had early hopes), Wisconsin and Minnesota (same) are all long gone.

That gives Obama a mortal lock on 264 EV.

And thus, McCain is faced with a situation where if he loses ANY of the following states he loses:

Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, New Mexico, Missouri, Indiana, Colorado, Nevada.

McCain is either tied or trailing in the polling in every one of these states but Indiana and he might lose that.

His chances of pulling out every close state, especially when he's losing Virginia and Colorado by over 5% is too poor. He needs a game changer and Pennsylvania is it.

Although he's 8% down in his own internal polls, and more than that in the public ones, McCain has to hope that massive campaigning in PA will change everything.

With that 21 EV he could lose BOTH CO and VA, and as long as he holds MO + FL + OH + NC, he wins! It's a long-shot, but better than nothing.


[ Parent ]
I think a whole lot of people in Colorado Springs... (0.00 / 0)
...are sitting at their kitchen tables, looking at their absentee ballots, and shaking their heads.


[ Parent ]
New VA numbers? (0.00 / 0)
Or did something just drop out?

Rasmussen dropped out (n/t) (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Virginia is the key (0.00 / 0)
I am not as optimistic as most people, and I don't like that map at all. Obama needs to take Virginia to seal the deal. I think McCain is going to end up winning NV, MT, MO, ND,FL, OH, IN.
NC and Colorado are toss ups.

Um (0.00 / 0)
The facts just don't support that at all. You don't like the map as is?

Are you kidding? There is plenty of information out there to show that you are most likely wrong on where the race stands.

PA is a must win for McCain which means that all of those other states that you are panicked about are gone.


[ Parent ]
We will see (0.00 / 0)
PA is unwinnable for McCain. Maybe him wasting too much time and money there will be the final nail in his coffin. Even if he he sunk enough money into PA to pull it off it would be at the cost of every other swing state.

[ Parent ]
What isn't to like? (0.00 / 0)
Nothing is in the bag yet but you are being too pessimistic - particularly with regard to CO and NV.

[ Parent ]
10+% isn't lock? (4.00 / 2)
Is there really any need to break out states where Obama leads by 10% or more with 12 days left? I'd move those into the Obama lock column until polls show any tightening. If I'm not mistaken, McCain has never lead in a single Iowa poll so that at least needs to go in the lock column.

my understanding (0.00 / 0)
is that the chart reflects states that are being targeted by either(?) campaign, not just determined by the current poll numbers.

[ Parent ]
Some people were curious (4.00 / 1)
The method to the chart is that I am basically showing all of the states that people were asking about either in comments or over email. I don't want to list them all anymore (too much of a pain in the ass), but I want people to have the information they desire.

[ Parent ]
As much as I love the idea... (0.00 / 0)
....I wouldn't rely on the 5-point lead in Indiana staying for long.  We can win there, but it'll take virtually every Democrat in the state voting our way to pull it off.

In fact.... (0.00 / 0)
....if you want to know that Indiana may be Obama's to lose, that's when Gov. Mitch Daniels will be seen panicking in public, because it could affect his own race for re-election, as in Georgia/North Carolina.

Not as likely in Indiana's case, but...


[ Parent ]
538 is nuts (0.00 / 0)
If you get a 5 point national shift, this race becomes very close in the electoral college.  As I will show below, a 5 point shift is seen reasonably frequently in the last 10 days.  

I have never been that impressed with 538 (this makes me a minority of one) and the probability strikes me as absurd.

Here is the simple truth:  elections do not happen with enough frequency to permit the type of analysis suggested.  Now you CAN compute a probability of winning IF THE ELECTION WERE HELD TODAY - but that is very different than attempting to predict a result.  

What is the chance of a 5 point shift between now and election day? Consider:

In '76 Carter lead by 15 in Gallup (Oct 8-11) and by 9 in the NYT (Oct 8-12).  A weak later Gallup found the lead cut to 6 (47,41, reported Oct 22).  Carter won by 2: this represents a 7 point shift in the last 3 weeks, and 3.5 point shift in the last week.

In 1980 Carter lead in one poll taken Oct 16-20 (NYT, 39-38) and trailed by 3 in the Gallup poll taken by Oct 24-26.  Reagan won by 10 (at least a 7 point shift in the last week.  

In 1988 Bush lead in two polls taken about 10 days out by 13 points (NYT, Oct 21-24) and by 13 in the Washington Post taken Oct 26-31.  Bush won by 7 (a six point shift late, though a Gallup poll had Bush up only 9 on Oct 20-21)

In 1992 there was about an 8 point shift in the race in the last three weeks, and in '96 the polling overstated the extent of Clinton's victory.


538 (4.00 / 2)
Yea I find 538 to be a bit absurd sometimes with their numbers. With that said, we are getting very close to the end here and it is hard to imagine that there would be a dramatic swing to McCain in the final 11 days. The race has remained pretty stable over the past four months, aside from the brief period in September where McCain was winning. I just don't see it suddenly changing for no apparent reason in the coming week.  

[ Parent ]
He doesn't need (0.00 / 0)
that big of a swing to make things competitive. A 5 point swing and he wins Florida, Ohio, North Carolina and Missouri.   Nevada and Colorado would become close as hell as well.  He would have to pull to an inside straight, but the odds are a hell of a lot better than 5%.  

Obama's firewall is New Mexico and Iowa plus Kerry.  As long as helds those states and the rest are close, he will find enough evs to win.  But a five point swing would make election night a nightmare.  


[ Parent ]
well... (0.00 / 0)
how do you know that the odds are better than five percent? Looking at history, which you yourself imply is not that useful due to the infrequency of elections, doesn't seem like an adequate methodology.

I'm not saying your wrong, but at least Nate is clear on what he's doing and what his assumptions are and doesn't just make blanket statements backed up (very inexactly) by a handful of previous presidential elections only.  


[ Parent ]
That is my point (0.00 / 0)
the odds cannot be computed.

There is not enough data.  In 5 of the last 8 elections there has been a 5 point swing in the last 2 weeks.  That alone though provides solig grounds for rejecting the notion that there is a 96% chance of an Obama victory.  


[ Parent ]
i take your point, but i think you are being too authoritative here... (4.00 / 2)
we don't exactly know where we stand in some of these swing states at the moment.  there actually hasn't been as much polling in VA and CO as i would like, and it seems that the LV models are all over the place this year.  so if there were a five point shift, we don't know whether that would be enough for mccain to win some of these states...

also, i think it is worth pointing out that there are a number of signs which suggest that the race is actually opening up for obama, rather than getting closer.  


[ Parent ]
Yes, but (4.00 / 1)
external forces may account for some of those shifts.  For example, the debate between Carter and Reagan was held in the last week of the campaign.  It seems unlikely that such a shift could occur in this race at this point in time, owing to the fact that there are no more events (within the candidates' control) left on the calendar.  

[ Parent ]
True enough (0.00 / 0)
in the case of 1980 there was the debate and a last minute flurry of talks with the Iranians over the hostages.  

I don't think anything similar was at play in either '76, '88 or '96.  

My point is pretty simple: there is an enourmous tendency to underestimate the potential volatility in an election.  I would put the odds of a McCain victory at around 25%.  


[ Parent ]
Although you make a good point (4.00 / 1)
25% seems a bit high given everything we know. I wouldn't go higher than, say, 12%.

[ Parent ]
hm (0.00 / 0)
i would put it at 8.6357% that seems about right!

[ Parent ]
sorry to tease (0.00 / 0)
i agree with you that 25 seems to high qualitatively given the current state of things

[ Parent ]
see my comment above (0.00 / 0)
where do you pull that 25% number from. I don't mean to be disparaging, i'm honestly very curious to know.

[ Parent ]
its came from you know where (0.00 / 0)
so let me try to be a little systematic.

If the odds are about 50-50 of a signficant late swing (based on the elections from 1976 to 2004) you get about a 25% chance of a 5 point or more swing to McCain.   We can't predict the size of thde swing, but the range appears to be from about 5 to 10 points.  

McCain needs about a 6 point swing to get to about a 50-50 proposition, so my 25% is too high based on this analysis.  


[ Parent ]
ok, thanks (0.00 / 0)
even if you're right though i agree with the above poster that a swing seems more likely toward Obama than away from him (especially if the national 30-minute ad goes off well (and Obama always seems to pull of such things, I'm hoping its a speech really)).

[ Parent ]
You Forgot Obama's TV Special (0.00 / 0)
Obama's doing a half-hour primetime special on Wednesday, Oct. 29.

[ Parent ]
Yes And No (4.00 / 2)
Yes, it's true that we don't have that many elections to go on.

But, no, it's not therefore true that the sorts of shifts you invoke can well be expected.

Why not?  Simple: you're pointing to a much earler time when there were far fewer polls out there.  A couple of polls swinging 6 points in 2 weeks time are nothing, that can be virtually all inside the MOE.

Do I think it was all just MOE?  No, of course not.  There were shifts, and that's constent with our larger sense of how those campaigns played out over time.  It's just that the magnitude was probably somewhat exaggerated.

Now, however, we have two different circumstances:

(1) a whole shitload more polls than we had back then, which means that any 5-6 point shifts in the polling trends will only have a point, at most that can be attributed to MOE.  This is further buttressed by another shitload of state polls, plus the internals.

(2) The shape of the larger campaign over time, which interlocks in particular with the state polls and internals.  All this shows that McCain's been struggling against himself, trying to balance contradictory narratives, and becoming increasingly erratic and self-contradictory as time goes on.  This, in turn, has lead to increasing defections, and scattershot strategy that keeps driving his chances even further down the tubes.

So, in short, I simply don't there's anywhere near the opening for McCain that you think there is.

But, it's good to be challenged, nonetheless.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I see no emprical basis for this statement (0.00 / 0)
"It's just that the magnitude was probably somewhat exaggerated. "

I have no idea what your basis is for this conclusion.  It is true I do not site many polls in my original post.  Frankly there isn't a good source of polling pre-2000 that is easy to access , and to some extent I probably have about a good a database as any, which is pathetic and another conversation.

I don't think the issue is lack of polling: there were real shifts.  Moreover, I think you can seriously argue that such a shift is MORE likely when the right track wrong direction question is very negative.  The last two times that question was as negative as it is this year were '92 and '80.  You can probably add '68 to that list.  In EACH case there was significant movement late in the race.  

I actually think the most likely result is a late shift towards Obama.  In '92 and '80 the shifts were away from the party in power (though in '92 it was to a third party).  You can also argue the late shift in '68 was the result of Humphrey definately turning against the status quo in a way his challenger did not.  

I don't think McCain is going to win.  But I also think the idea that he has less than a 4% chance to win is sheer bullshit.  


[ Parent ]
You're Right (0.00 / 0)
He has less than a 2% chance.

More tomorrow.

(That's a joke son!  I disagree with your analysis, but I think it's good that you bring it up.)

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Or one could say that polls have gotten more accurate and swings less (4.00 / 1)
Based on the above sample it seems as if the polls have been getting closer over time, at least as far as the national trend line, goes.  They were quite close in 2000 and 2004, and really not that far off in 1996.  1996 was also in the end a very sleepy election with low voter enthusiasm.

It's a great chance .... (0.00 / 0)

The Republicans have run a crap campaign with a candidate who never really got out of the starting gate.

While they are down and vulnerable, beat them into the ground!

Turn Nate Silver's 3.7% chance into 0% on election day!


Donate to Open Left









QUICK HITS

Friends of the Earth thanks the OpenLeft community for the ideas you generate and your contributions to the progressive movement.


blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search