Dems Kick Off Battle for Their Own Party

by: David Sirota

Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 14:46


That's not an Onion headline, that's what's really going on, according to the Wall Street Journal's article today about the coming battle for the soul of the Democratic Party (to admittedly use a cliche) if Obama wins. What's interesting about this piece is not so much that there is a battle (anyone who's been reading this blog knows there has been a very intense one), but that it's so out in the open among top Democratic leaders. Check out this interchange:

"It's better to let things evolve than to revolve. Revolutions are dangerous," cautioned Rep. James Clyburn of South Carolina, the House Majority Whip, who advises a pragmatic approach to governance that would begin with items that have proven bipartisan support before tackling ambitious elements such as universal health care.

"He's a national leader, Clyburn," House Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel of New York snapped back, embodying the views of liberals who want to move fast on the most ambitious version of Obamanomics possible. "I'm thinking of his constituents, and he doesn't have the slightest clue what he's talking about." (emphasis added)

Them's fightin' words where I come from - and that fight has already spilled over into the Obama camp, with progressives pushing for a better Wall Street bailout that actually forces Wall Street to use our taxpayer cash for the economy, and Wall Streeter Bob Rubin pushing back, saying his banking industry cronies should be able to pocket America's hard-earned cash and walk away.

David Sirota :: Dems Kick Off Battle for Their Own Party
Democratic leaders, aides and Obama advisers say such conversations remain friendly. But some tension exists in an eclectic circle that includes Wall Streeters, labor leaders and liberal think-tank denizens. Sen. Obama's economic brain trust dialed in two weeks ago to a conference call with the candidate to discuss how the Wall Street bailout was working when a split emerged over how hard the government should lean on the banks. Some advisers said it would be politically and economically disastrous if the billions of taxpayer dollars injected into ailing financial institutions just sat in vaults. Robert Rubin, who served as President Bill Clinton's Treasury secretary between stints on Wall Street, pushed back. Leaving the money in the banks would help stabilize them and prevent further turmoil in the credit markets, even if the money wasn't loaned out, the Citigroup Inc. executive said.

The Journal says there are three groups in the Democratic Congress - basically, progressives who want big changes, Blue Dogs who want to stop big changes in the name of deficit reduction, and those who haven't taken a side, and are pushing Obama to go small-bore, split the difference, and move very slowly. That latter group is led by Clyburn and (big shocker!) Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-IL) who "says Sen. Obama remains firmly behind his full agenda -- but is flexible on timing and pacing."

Let's be really clear: We've got to get through election day first, and the fact that congressional Democrats are publicly fighting about this stuff now is really inappropriate.

That said, what that inappropriately anticipatory behavior suggests is 1) that there is going to be a battle over whether an Obama administration (if there is one) is going to be a third Bill Clinton term (with all the corresponding incrementalism) and 2) that this battle is going to have very high stakes.

UPDATE: Troll commenter jcpok writes that in discussing this huge story in one of the largest newspapers in the world, I am "stirring up and supporting the intra-party warfare meme" and am being "premature and presumptuous" because such memes "suppress turnout." I want to flag this kind of comment because it is a hackneyed attack that comes up every now and again - namely, that in talking about something in one of the largest publications in the world, we are hurting the cause, being selfish and "suppressing turnout." Of course, there's absolutely no evidence of the latter claim - none whatsoever. But what's so odd (silly?) about this line of attack is that this ire is directed at people like me or Stoller or Bowers, but not the various congressional leaders quoted in one of the largest newspapers in the world. Attributing such super powers to me (ie. I am stirring intra-party warfare) and ignoring actual officeholders in huge newspapers is flattering and all, but it's totally divorced from reality. If you have a big problem with the "intra-party warfare meme" - take it up with Charlie Rangel and Jim Clyburn who are heading to huge newspapers to talk about it - not with those of us who are reacting to it. Additionally, I just wanted to reiterate what I often say - if you are going to make a comment in a diary, please indicate through your comment that you've actually read the diary. Had this troll read the diary, he/she would have seen in big bold letters that I wrote "We've got to get through election day first, and the fact that congressional Democrats are publicly fighting about this stuff now is really inappropriate."


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Yup, when Obama (4.00 / 6)
wins, celebrate your ass off, then wake up the next morning and do ideological battle against the likes of Robert Rubin, so shameless he supports the hoarding of bailout money by banks.

Robert Rubin, who served as President Bill Clinton's Treasury secretary between stints on Wall Street, pushed back. Leaving the money in the banks would help stabilize them and prevent further turmoil in the credit markets, even if the money wasn't loaned out, the Citigroup Inc. executive said.



I've been thinking about this, too, though (4.00 / 7)
The post-election power struggle has the potential to be every bit as important as the election itself.  Progressives need to be ready to start pushing if and when Obama is elected alongside his new Congress.  

Insiders can start doing stuff on day one.  The netroots don't have that luxury.  I don't think it's inappropriate to start brainstorming on ways that we can try and keep Rubinomics off of the table, UHC on the table, and try to avoid another 'don't ask, don't tell'-style meltdown.

Who gets hired and who gets on the short lists for nominees will have a lot to say about what Obama's plan for his first 100 days in office is.


Yeah, nominees at (4.00 / 2)
Treasury and Defense, in particular.

I hope Obama wasn't serious about keeping Gates, and all this Larry Summers for Treasury Secretary is making me nervous.


[ Parent ]
Here's a cabinet (4.00 / 2)
I've been thinking about this, and how messed up it would be to have a cabinet that included Gates and Summers, or Hagel and Rubin, or Lugar and Powell, and how somebody might want to explain to Obama that whatever "change" means, it does not mean retaining elements of the Bush administration and the most culpable members of Clinton's cabinet.

So I wondered what an "ideal" Obama cabinet would look like, (perhaps just so I can calibrate my disappointment correctly when he does indeed choose the aforementioned tools), and I came up with this:

Secretary of State - Gary Hart
Secretary of the Treasury - Nouriel Roubini
Secretary of Defense - Ron Dellums
Attorney General - David Cole
Secretary of the Interior - Winona LaDuke
Secretary of Agriculture - Jim Hightower
Secretary of Commerce - John Cavanagh
Secretary of Labor - Holly Sklar
Secretary of Health and Human Services - Steffie Woolhandler
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development - Rocky Anderson
Secretary of Transportation - Earl Blumenauer
Secretary of Energy - Amory Lovins
Secretary of Education - Jonathan Kozol
Secretary of Veterans Affairs - Tammy Duckworth


[ Parent ]
Lovins for energy - now that would be pretty cool (n/m) (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Here's a progressive cabinet (4.00 / 4)
In These Times did a whole cover story on what a progressive cabinet looks like:

http://www.inthesetimes.com/ar...


[ Parent ]
Bonior and Kaptur (4.00 / 1)
would be great!

I think Bonior is possible, but Obama won't go with Kaptur.  He's more of a "free trader."  Our best bet is in Congress and to use labor pressure on Obama to push him toward fairer trade.  With Furman around, we won't get Kaptur.


[ Parent ]
Earl Blumenauer's name comes up on every list (0.00 / 0)
I see. I'm taking that as a good sign, and I really hope to see him in the Cabinet. I like Gov. Sebelius, but I thought she was a shoo-in for the Senate in a few years (Although, I guess it's not unfeasible that she could go to the Senate after 2 years in the Cabinet).

I think Lawrence Lessig would be a good choice for the soon-to-be-created technology post, but I don't know if he would take it.


[ Parent ]
Size of the margin in both chambers will determine everything. (4.00 / 4)
Sure, Clyburn might like X and Rangel might like Y.  But the size of the margins in each chamber will determine whether X or Y happens.  The Senate in particular has the power to force smaller changes if there's 43 Republicans, and will be less so inclined if there's 41 or 40.  And in the House, the size of the margin determines how many Blue Dogs are expendable on any given vote, as well as which leaders have more leverage.

So the best way to win this argument is to fight harder right now on the ground, and deliver an extra progressive to Congress.  Becky Greenwald, Bill Durston, Gary Trauner, Debbie Cook, Jill Derby, Judy Baker, Mike Montagano, Alice Kryzan, Sam Bennett, Glenn Nye, Bobby Bright is my list of Democrats who are going to come heartbreakingly close to winning, but still lose.  (Well, I think Becky might actually win.)  Jim Martin and Bruce Lunsford will fall just short as well.  Any help in those races would be huge.



Why in the hell are we blogging about this now..? (4.00 / 2)
This post is asinine.  Sirota, as our Populist-in-Chief, is stirring up and supporting the intra-party warfare meme while we are still engaged in a bitterly fought election campaign.  Isn't this a tad bit premature and presumptuous?  This type of stupidity only serves to  create dissension in the ranks and suppress turnout at a time when we desperately need our voters (all of them... not just those deemed adequately progressive in Sirota's eyes) to turn out and vote.

       


why does (4.00 / 2)
it suppress turnout?



[ Parent ]
This is how. (4.00 / 1)
From my experience canvassing/calling in towns in Western PA (Greensburg, Monroeville, Yough, Smithton, etc.) I can honestly say that there is a large group of "Cinton-model" Dems that have yet to buy into the reformist/populist agenda.  These people are nonetheless voting for Obama out of tradition and because they see McCain as nothing more than an extension of the Bush agenda which has hurt them so badly.  I would not consider this group of voters to be "hard" Obama supporters. They could flip.  They could easily flip if they start hearing stories that can easily be spun as pitting a "new radical wing" vs. the "traditional wing" of the Dem Party.    

Will Obama be able to bring them along at some point and have them buy into an aggressive, reformist agenda.  Maybe... I just don't know.  What I do know is that I don't want to lose these voters over some anticipatory (and possibly academic) argument over intra-party warfare.      


[ Parent ]
Well, assuming for the sake of argument (4.00 / 3)
that those voters in Western PA are at OpenLeft, reading about this "dangerous" intraparty fight, you're conflating and misunderstanding categories here. Obama might be a reformist but he's no populist; hence you're "reformist/populist" formation is strange. Very different thing. Moreover, I promise you that Sirota's anti-free trade, anti-bailout populism would be much more popular with those white working class Dems than the more corportatized philosophy espoused by Obama. Indeed, they might be happy to hear that there are forces in the party that might pull O to his left on economic issues.  

[ Parent ]
Yes, very logical (4.00 / 5)
Yes, it's very logical - I am stirring "intra-party warfare," not the various congressional leaders quoted in one of the largest newspapers in the world.

Yes, it is me who is being "premature and presumptuous" even though had this commenter read, I state up front:

Let's be really clear: We've got to get through election day first, and the fact that congressional Democrats are publicly fighting about this stuff now is really inappropriate.

You know, I've said it before and I'll say it again. When commenters comment on diaries before reading them, they really make themselves look cognitively challenged (ie. very stupid).

Also, attributing such super powers to me (ie. I am stirring intra-party warfare) and ignoring actual officeholders in huge newspapers is flattering and all, but it's totally divorced from reality.  


[ Parent ]
What "Side" Are You On, David? (2.00 / 2)
It's the Wall Street Journal, David you know like Rupert Murdoch...

Wait a minute, David, aren't you like a regular on Fox News?  

Could we have a Ma, Ma, Mole in out midst???


[ Parent ]
Midst (4.00 / 1)
I suppose that depends on how you define "our midst."  I'm guessing your midst is something akin to the DLC.

[ Parent ]
a sad analysis (0.00 / 0)
Steve: Your analysis is, frankly, pathetic. While the WSJ's editorial page is far to the right, it's news coverage is considered very even - certainly as even as the New York Times'. You diminish the important ideological arguments against Fox News with pathetically silly indictments of others - indictments that quite literally have no basis in fact.

Yes, the Journal is owned by Murdoch, and it may in the future become like the New York Post. But painting with that wide a brush right now - with no actual evidence - just makes you look stupid.


[ Parent ]
Dear David (4.00 / 2)
What's up with you?  You are on the Rolodex of the major news outlets, a syndicated column, a successful, well reviewed book.  Yet your name is fast turning into a Pavlovian bell that brings out either; super support; or fangs and claws.

I know journalists, yes even a "pathetically silly" indicter  such as myself, and from time to time these journalists, so they tell me get assignments from, editors, who just may have their own agenda.

I'm not interested in getting in a "flame" war with you David.  In fact I'd like to see you have even greater success.  I want to look forward to reading your columns, adding my little two-cents plain.  But for some reason, in my humble opinion you do more to incite then "opinionate."

Use your "kup," David when you are on Fox News, six days from the most important election, at least, in my lifetime, and I walked the neighborhood with my aunt for JFK, use a little semi-partisan discretion.  As my aunt, always said, "Loose lips sink ships."

PS Murry says hello to Monty.



[ Parent ]
Wow, this "troll" hit a nerve. (2.00 / 2)
You got to be kidding.  From your post (my emphasis added):

That said, what that inappropriately anticipatory behavior suggests is 1) that there is going to be a [fight] over whether an Obama administration (if there is one) is going to be a third Bill Clinton term (with all the corresponding incrementalism) and 2) that this battle is going to have very high stakes.

So, here you clearly forward the intra-party fight meme offered by the WSJ.  And let's take a poll of our commentators as to which side David Sirota falls in this epic battle - the insurgent populist or the old-guard corporate Dems?  My guess is 100% would answer the former rather than the later.  It's clear what agenda you want to advance and now is not the time to be doing that - we should all be concentrating on getting our guy elected rather than giving credence to disruptive meme's from the WSJ.  

I again summon all my trollness to ever so humbly proclaim that your post is asinine.  Save it for after the election.

By the way, if you think I'm a troll then I'm guessing that  you think the same of a substantial portion of other progressive commentators on this site who are worn slick with your authoritative edicts on acceptable forms of "populism".    


[ Parent ]
If you don't like it (0.00 / 0)
If you don't like my ideology and belief system, that's your right. But your idea that people have "worn thin" of progressivism, populism, or me in particular isn't really borne out by the facts. The web traffic to this site and my personal blog, as well as email traffic, etc. would suggest that while certainly not everyone agrees with what I write, more and more people are interested in it, which I really very much appreciate. That's the empirical data - and I understand that really bothers you, though I'm not sure why, but it clearly does.

But I'll say this - if you hate me so much, why do you read what I write? If you've "worn so thin" of what I write, why are you not only reading, but commenting? Why arenn't you slink off to some hole, and fume alone, rather than attacking people for having a belief system? Are you uncontrollably drawn to what I'm writing? Because if I'm as irrelevant as you say, you have a strange way of showing it - both in the fact that youa re commenting, and in the super powers of influence you seem to ascribe to me.


[ Parent ]
Yeah, save it for after the election (4.00 / 3)
And then save it till after he's taken office...

And then save till after his 100 days...

then save it till after his first term...

People like you who think mere acknowledgment of divisions within the party hurts the party (to say nothing of actual interparty debate), you'd probably be happier at a more strictly partisan site, like Dailykos.  


[ Parent ]
Moreover... (4.00 / 2)
if you're so concerned about drumming up voter turnout, then why are you spending your valuable time posting to blogs?  

[ Parent ]
Shut the fuck up, jpok (0.00 / 0)
You're making an ass of yourself.

[ Parent ]
asinine (4.00 / 3)
What is asinine, is the thought that somehow this important discussion of how Obama is going to govern in relation to a two-chamber majority could possibly somehow cause dissension or suppress voting to such an extent that it could affect the outcome of the election.  If at this point Obama doesn't win for some reason, it will have been for some other reason than a discussion of where the Democratic party should go.  Talk about an ego.

[ Parent ]
I still wonder where (4.00 / 3)
so many of the commenters here obtain their implicit assumption that Obama is a "progressive" and thereby naturally arrayed against the Bob Rubins of the world. In domestic policy, Obama gives every indication of being only slightly to the left of DC Democratic Establishment thinking.

It is down to us to move the policy discussion leftward, just as it is down to us to move the definition of "center" in American politics leftward. Personalities, however, are less important in that connection than some people seem to believe (e.g., the suggestion that Bill Clinton himself would run his "third term" exactly as he ran his first two terms, which is an absurd proposition anywhere but the Never-Neverland of DC insider-think).

I am frankly appalled at the prospect of a renewed bout of Party infighting when consensus-building is still required to consolidate the gains we all hope to achieve in this election. I am not talking about "High Broderism" consensus-building, but rather avoiding the needless personality-driven Party infighting that so marred the Carter administration. A good start would be to stop identifying people as "Clintonites" merely because they served in the last Democratic administration. Just as an example, it should be relatively clear that Robert Reich and Robert Rubin share initials but otherwise diverge in some significant respects.

The Democratic Party, unlike the Republican Party, is truly a national party, with divergent views. Effective Democratic presidents from FDR and Truman through LBJ and Clinton, managed to build sufficient consensus to get things done without declaring themselves elective dictators in the style of Dubya and Cheney. We may all wish we didn't have to work with the Steny Hoyers of this world, but we'll get more done keeping them inside the tent leaking out than we will kicking them out of the tent and daring them to leak in.

Talking to your adversaries is not the same thing as caving into them, and negotiating often yields better results than standing stubbornly on principle -- I thought Obama has made those points rather well during this campaign.  


Clinton != Clinton (4.00 / 1)
I actually think that even if magically sent Bill Clinton and Al Gore ahead 16 years and put them into the White House today the result would be much better and more progressive than we saw the last time around.

The reason is simple, the times are different.

Remember, Clinton tried to fix health care.  He tried to really integrate gays into the military.  But the same man today would get different results.


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