Great!! .... (4.00 / 4)

George Bush ran the Senate ... and now Barack Obama will be running it ... whatever happened to the time when Senators jealously guarded their turf? .... the Senate has basically become puppets .. the more I hear about this nonsense ... the more I can't wait for HoJo to start stabbing Obama and the Democrats in the back ..  it serves them right

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 07:46:29 AM CST

exactly (4.00 / 3)

The Senate shouldn't give a damn what Obama says. He's going to be president, it's his job to work with all Senators and not start off creating enemies. Meanwhile, it IS the job of Harry Reid to enforce discipline amongst his members. Spending a year campaigning for John McCain and other Republicans while trashing the Democratic candidate wasn't bad enough for Harry I guess.

Pathetic. I'm still hoping for a miracle in that secret vote, but I won't hold my breath.

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by: existenz @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:33:01 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I wonder if Obama will feel the same when Lieberman stabs him in the back (4.00 / 5)

Lieberman will yammer on about how he's only investigating to "clear the air" and it'll be for "Obama's own good" but make no mistake about it, Lieberman will shove that fucking knife deep into Obama's back, twist the blade with GLEE, and Lieberman will smile and laugh his mother fucking head off during every last second of it.  

If the Democratic leadership is counting on Lieberman's vote for cloture then we are fucked beyond all belief.  We might as well count on Mitch McConnell's vote for cloture.  

Stupid is as stupid does.

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by: gaspare @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 08:06:51 AM CST

I would say......... (0.00 / 0)

it is probably true that if Obama had said nothing that indeed joe sixpack would have been tossed. Which would have pleased me endlessly. But the quote above from MSNBC:

"If the wrath was directed at Obama and got over it, shouldn't the Democratic caucus do the same?"

is true. If he forgives him and he was the target, how can I not? So, I will accept it but not like it.

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by: dolphan76 @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 08:08:02 AM CST

But why should Reid listen to him? ... (4.00 / 5)

that makes perfect sense for Obama to say .. so he can look above all the "petty, partisan politics" .. Obama would still come out looking alright no matter what Reid did .. and Reid could show a little independence too .. Mitch McConnell must be laughing his ass off

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 08:16:01 AM CST

[ Parent ]

If Obama wanted Reid...... (4.00 / 1)

to do this he would send him a message through the back channels. As hard as it is to believe - he must really want him to stay. I would have to assume this as he could send a message to Reid somehow if he really wanted him gone from the chairmanship. Hell, he could have come out and said "I want him in the caucus, but there must be some real punishment." Then the Senate could do as they chose and he would still look pretty good. But he must really want him to stay? I don't understand it, but he is no naive fool when it comes to politics so I assume they have some agreement that will keep old Joe in check. Time will tell.

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by: dolphan76 @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 08:26:52 AM CST

[ Parent ]

the problem with this (4.00 / 2)

is that nothing stays secret, even in back-channels. If Obama is trying not to create any enemies on his first day, why screw that up by sending back channel messages to fuck Lieberman? It would be leaked the next day and Obama would look like a two-faced Machiavelli.

Obama's job is to be gracious. It is Harry Reid's job to be tough. Yet instead he is just caving to typical beltway Democratic spinelessness. The Obama excuse is just that, an excuse for these Senators who were looking for any reason whatsoever to forgive Joe.

I wonder if they will get Joe to issue a public apology to Obama and the Democratic party, or if even that is too much punishment.

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by: existenz @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:36:46 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Joe apologize? .. LOL!! ... (0.00 / 0)

and why would it be leaked? .. why wouldn't it just be between Obama and Reid?

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:47:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

hmm (0.00 / 0)

I wonder if it's as simple as Obama suggesting it and the majority of Dem senators accepting. It seems to me that a lot of the Senate Democrats are constantly trying not to get blamed for anything, so they will just put it on Obama. It doesn't seem that they want to ever take any real responsibility for things, all they want is an excuse to say to people why they voted a certain way.

Anyways, Barack won't run the Senate like Bush did because Lieberman will be there to stop things and republicans will also be right behind him pushing back on plenty of things Obama would like to get done.

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by: jstrick @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 08:45:21 AM CST

I am not implying .. (0.00 / 0)

that Obama will get much past(unless Reid/Obama) can get Snowe, Collins or Specter on board for cloture ... I am just implying that Reid will be a patsy for Obama and do whatever he says

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:01:13 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't know what the hell to think anymore (4.00 / 1)

Obama is for me like a cognitive dissonance pill.  I just can't deal with it anymore.

On the one hand, I know he ain't stupid.  He has clearly demonstrated that he is the smartest guy in almost any room he walks into.  He has to have thought of all the things I and everyone else has said here.  How many times did I underestimate him during the campaign?

And yet, everything I know from my experience tells me that what he's doing here IS stupid.  There is NO way it's worth trusting that if he unilaterally disarms in the partisan wars, the Republicans will reciprocate.

So I am left with hoping that he knows something that I don't.  Some deal with some Republicans that will allow him to govern effectively, and yet not sell out everything he campaigned on and everything the country now needs.  Or maybe his sublime intuition that he will be able to move enough Republicans (and Blue Dog Democrats) by the sheer force of his persuasiveness, that it all works out in the end and I'll be happy.

I hate being infantilized like this.  It's like being told you have to believe in the tooth fairy.  And yet he hasn't had a chance to really disappoint yet.  Nothing is set in stone - YET.  But in two months the rubber is going to meet the road and these questions will start to be resolved.

I sure as hell hope he knows what he's doing and isn't planning a sellout.

I know know how the Abolitionists must have felt when Lincoln was first elected.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

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by: sTiVo @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:18:40 AM CST

This and Clinton SOS will kill a lot of joy among his supporters. NT (0.00 / 0)

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by: tdub @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:45:22 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Dissonance? (4.00 / 1)

He hasn't done anything to cause dissonnance.  He's governing 100% as he campaigned.  I don't know what "hope" you're hanging onto, but it would seem to have nothing to do with what he actually represented himself to be.

Reality-based community my ass.  

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by: kanzeon @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:20:57 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Right on (0.00 / 0)

I simply don't understand how people on liberal blogs think.  For four years, that man has repeated that he will govern by representing everyone, even the ones who didn't support him.  If he had said to the Dems to get rid of Lieberman, that would have counter is message of unity.  Nothing he has done so far has been counter to his message.  If the Dems wanted Lieberman gone, they would have done it, regardless of whether Obama objected or not.  

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by: ModerateCanuck @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 13:12:35 PM CST

[ Parent ]

ha! (0.00 / 0)

obama is bs. nader was right. "progressives" my ass.  

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by: gb @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:19:41 AM CST

The concept that the US is a "center right" nation may be in dispute (0.00 / 0)

But it is becoming very clear that Obama will be a center right President.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:16:37 AM CST

well this is hardly surprising (0.00 / 0)

This is exactly how Obama explained he would govern. He would pull in as many parties as possible, seek common ground, avoid score-settling, and avoid making enemies, because that (he believes) is the best way to pass an agenda in the face of a very stubborn Washington culture.

So he forgives Lieberman. So he pulls Clinton into his cabinet. So he meets with McCain. None of this is the least bit surprising.

We'll see whether this works or not. But I think it's important to see this as strategically, rather than ideologically, driven behavior - because this is the strategy he has said he would employ from the beginning.

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by: Chachy @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:51:02 AM CST

Building a bulletproof coalition? (0.00 / 0)

It always amazed me that Bush could count on Democratic help for his misguided legislative efforts.  I often speculated that Dick Cheney or Karl Rove had compromising pictures of some of them. But could it have been that they just owed him something?  In spite of Joe's demonstrated and anticipated treachery, could it be that this huge gift from Obama will make him feel indebted?  Could it be that Obama will charm, bribe, coerce, leverage, and convince a large group of legislators from both sides, thereby becoming very successful in effecting his agenda?  Sure, he'll have to swallow a little pride, perhaps a little bile; but he'll get stuff done.  
It seems that perhaps he has a large toolkit.  Where Bush/Cheney used fear/intimidation as their tool of choice, and most certainly would have smacked down a renegade Republican if he were to have acted as Liberman did, perhaps Obama will use many tools to cleverly construct a coalition of supporters who for one reason or another will help him attain his goals.  
Personally, I would smack Lieberman around a little.  But that's me.  Obama may be playing on a much higher plane, and that's why his election may be a larger victory than is now apparent.

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by: pdefalla1 @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:51:16 AM CST

When your house is on fire (0.00 / 0)

you reach for that bucket of water; no, it won't put out the fire, but that's how people think in an emergency.

Obama = bucket.

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by: Paul Goodman @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:53:25 AM CST

WOW (0.00 / 0)

So, because the Media says it, you guys are going to accept it as fact?!!! Point me to where Obama said that he was ok with Lieberman keeping his chairmanship?  He specifically said that he wanted Lieberman to stay in the caucus, not whether or not he wanted him to keep his chairmanship.  You guys have complained for the past 8 years that the media were not doing their job with Bush, yet you are quick to accept whatever they say without questioning it.  Marc Ambinder was right in his assessment that the media is playing you guys like a fiddle and waiting to reap the benefits.

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by: ModerateCanuck @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 13:06:10 PM CST

I got flamed by suggesting this on dKos (0.00 / 0)

Look, Obama was my first choice in the primaries- but this does not mean he walks on water, etc., and the idea that somehow this is all Reid's fault, or the Senate Dems is ridiculous on the face of it.

There is just NO WAY Lieberman keeps his chairmanship if Barack Obama even hinted this wasn't fine with him- seriously, the Senate Dems would stand up to their President-elect, but turn into jelly if Joe Lieberman says he's going to take his ball home and go home? Really?

The bottom line is like FISA, Barack Obama had an opportunity to make a stand we would respect, and chose not to, for whatever reason.  I sure hope he's willing to go to the mat for something important to us in the progressive community at some point, because if we elected the next Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton, and all we get is someone who governs like Eisenhower while trying to sound like FDR...

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by: pseudopol @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 16:39:11 PM CST