If progressive want to kill the bill, they should support it as hard as possible

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 21:00


As Adam noted in a post earlier today, Lieberman has confirmed that he opposed the Medicare buy-in compromise because Jacob Hacker and Rep. Anthony Weiner supported it.

That isn't surprising.  Defeating liberals, in as public a way as possible, has long been a central pillar of "moderate" Democratic strategy.  Blue Dogs, Conservadems, the DLC and others believe that they must do everything possible to distance themselves from liberal Democrats in order to be successful.  If they are viewed as regular old Democrats, and not as a new wave of bi-partisan, moderate Democrat, then they honestly believe they are screwed.  Lieberman is just an especially spiteful version of this.

Given this right-wing Democratic need to defeat liberals as publically as possible, aren't the calls from progressive organizations to defeat the bill actually the action progressives can take that is most likely to help pass the bill?  And I am only being a little snarky.  As Atrios wrote:

Since all the dirty hippies decided that the public option was what mattered, it was probably inevitable that it would go (I don't know this, I'm hopefully mostly kidding). Pissing off the hippies is what "moderates" do, and as most of them don't have a clue about policy anyway, if the hippies are for it then they know it must be bad.

Along those lines, dirty fucking hippies like digby shouldn't they think lowering the Medicare age is a good idea, because if so it won't happen.

In Digby's defense (not that Atrios was seriously attacking her), she has consistently made a similar argument to Atrios here.  Also, at the time, I expressed my support for the compromise, too.  So did Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich and Howard Dean.

That kind of honesty sure feels like a mistake now.  Lieberman might have backstabbed everyone even if we didn't say we liked the compromise, but publically stating our support does not appear to have helped.

Don't you seriously wonder if publically opposing this bill is actually the best way for progressives to pass the bill?  Or that supporting the bill now is the best way to defeat it?  When one of your roles in the party ecosystem is to be publically humiliated, this sort of frustrated paranoia seems warranted.  At all costs, the party must protect the wise, reasoned, bi-partisan, non-ideological centrists who helped bring on every clusterfuck we face as a nation, even if that means opposing the policies that would have prevented those clusterfucks just because those policies are supported by progressives.  That certainly seems to be how Rahm Emanuel runs things, and really only marginally different than the way Emanuel's boss has been talking for years now.

Chris Bowers :: If progressive want to kill the bill, they should support it as hard as possible

Tags: , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Off topic: I know you are a numbers guy (0.00 / 0)
I am curious about your gut regarding next year's turn out? right now, I think the party is in serious, serious, serious trouble. 5 Senate seats and at least 20 house seats.  

That is (0.00 / 0)
almost insanely optimistic in my view....

[ Parent ]
Demographics, structural issues of the districts (4.00 / 1)
and the GOP being ape throwing poo nuts will prevent more than that. I think. The truth is I am probably being too optimistic. And now, that I am moving to being an independent- some part of me does not care because for the sake of accountability their must be consequences, even if I think that it will produce the "Dems must e more conservative" narrative after the loses. Looking at the longer as the parties keep flipping back and forth the result will be an eventual realization by one or the other that they must do something differently. Now, whther that is left or right leaning populism is entirely up to the Democrats.

[ Parent ]
No (4.00 / 4)
I think you're letting LIEberman spook you. He's showing that he's against anything, not just things we're for, but anything that lowers the profits of his masters, the health insurers. He's a corrupt shill that has basically decided to kill millions of people to engage in pettiness. No. We need to stick to who and what we are, at the core. We're Progressives. We're Liberals. We believe that a man or a woman is entitled to dignity of life with their work. We believe that there has to be fairness in our society and that those who do wrong must be held accountable. We believe these things.This is why we support REAL Healthcare reform. This is why we support breaking up the banks and hauling these banker bastards to jail. As I've said to Paul Rosenberg, we always go wrong by trying to stick to tactics when our strength is our beliefs. We don't need to run anymore and we don't need to twist ourselves into knots. We know what we stand for and we know that those who stand against us only stand for themselves. We know who and what THEY are. This is another dark period, but even in the darkest corner of the Bush Travesty, those of us on top today were those who refuse to stop believing in the things that make us who we are. We need to be our authentic selves again. We stand and fight. I don't care if we lose, I care that we held true to the righteousness of our beliefs.

Strategy and tactics are how one expresses beliefs in the political realm. (0.00 / 0)
Not only is this a contact sport, it's a rather complex one at that.

I say this not to contradict your comment in any way, as I agree with your overall expression on a visceral level. Yet, how the fight is carried matters a great deal down the road.

"In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State" -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


[ Parent ]
No (4.00 / 1)
Ever since the late 60's, our side has forgotten that it is the belief that drives the politics, not the other way around. All the dissembling you're seeing now is the result of forgetting this lesson. If we don't believe that middle class people should be paying for the greed and mistakes of the rich, then why the hell are we supporting this bill? I repeat, we as Progressives absolutely MUST separate ourselves from this bill and distance ourselves from the rest of the party. They are determined to go over the cliff on this one. This is JUST LIKE THE RUSH TO WAR IN IRAQ. This will be another example of the reps and senators who vote against this bill being vilified in the present, but praised just a couple of years from now. And what was it that all of those people who voted against going to Iraq had in common? They stuck to their belief that a case must be proven before subjecting a nation to war. They stuck to their principles. If we want even a half of a prayer next year, we must do the same. This is what we MUST DO!

[ Parent ]
Relax, OK? (4.00 / 1)
We're talking about the same thing here, but on different terms.

We're in the minority. We have to be more creative in the way we make trouble, as a matter of political theater. That's the only distinction I made. It's purely tactical, not strategic. You seem to think I'm being strategic. I'm not.

"In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State" -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


[ Parent ]
actually (4.00 / 1)
I figured (but don't know) that's why Howard Dean and kos came out against it.

ps. I do not mean to imply that many people here don't genuinely oppose the whole thing.

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


Are you saying that Dean and Kos are FOR the bill (0.00 / 0)
so they're arguing against it, so Lieberman would reflexively vote for it?

That doesn't make any sense, since Lieberman would already support the bill as it exists with no PO and no Medicare buy-in.


[ Parent ]
That being the case how do we not (4.00 / 1)
come to the conclusion the Democratic party is a waist of time, as are there politicians.

To whom is it important that you don't? (4.00 / 1)
(other than D partisans flying under a fake progressive banner)

[ Parent ]
Lieberman holds all the cards (4.00 / 3)
There's no way of implementing a strategy that tricks Lieberman into voting for a bill we want, or for voting against a bill we don't want, because both scenarios require concerted, organized effort in maintaining secrecy in the media and among activists and politicians. Even your article is an example of this. In order to relay the plan to others, you need to make it public, thus endangering the plan. The more its communicated, the more public it becomes. Not to mention if such a plan were ever implemented without everyone's prior knowledge, there would be a huge outcry from the progressives out of the loop. We would be caught in a never ending game of multidimensional chess, and I think everyone has had enough of that.

Compare all that to the situation of being one person controlling everything, knowing and understanding the endgame, being able to give mixed signals, act irrational and keep track of the news. There's no way of tricking Lieberman. We're talking about creating a matrix world just for him, and that's not feasible.  

So the best strategy, I think, is to just communicate clearly our goals and fight as hard as possible to achieve them. The one variable that can never be counted on in any broad political strategy is secrecy. I agree with Dean that the bill should be scrapped, and that some form of medicare expansion and public option should be passed through reconciliation. And that's it, that would be reform for now.


Needing every single one of the 60 votes was the wrong strategy. Period. (4.00 / 5)
It should be clear by now that only through reconcilation or by getting rid of the filibuster anything meaningful can be passed. All those who still chase Snowe or Collins are fighting windmills. Even if they get them on board, the horrible bill coming out of this would be a failure! It's time to abandon the 60 vote fantasy, really.

[ Parent ]
Those aren't options yet (0.00 / 0)
Given that some Democrats who would vote for the bill and (some of whom would definitely support a more progressive bill) are disinclined to use reconciliation and that there is no movement yet to get rid of the filibuster, it does seem like the choices were whatever gets 60 votes or no bill.

Anyone who wanted a bill passed who was banking on either reconciliation or the nuclear option was probably being unrealistic.  Arguably, people who are disconnected from reality in that manner shouldn't be planning political strategy.

So, that leaves two questions:

1) How can we build the political will to use reconciliation and/or get rid of the filibuster?  Has anyone contacted Senators' offices to get a count of support for either of these?

2) Until then, what strategy should we apply to get as much as possible under the restriction of a 60-vote threshold or should we try to pass nothing?

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
If the WH can strongarm Senators into accepting Liebercare... (4.00 / 2)
..they can also strongarm them into accepting reconcilation. I totally fail to see why you think this is "unrealistic".  

[ Parent ]
because the WH refuses to do so (4.00 / 1)
If this were not a WH captured corporate interest- maybe. But it's not. So to myour argument is wrong because of what the White House is.

[ Parent ]
I don't really think they were strong-armed (0.00 / 0)
They can do the math.  There is zero leverage on Lieberman, so it's either cave or nothing.

I believe that some Democrats have a strong process-oriented opposition to using reconciliation.   If there is serious talk of reconciliation, I predict that some Democrats who would vote for single-payer will speak out against reconciliation.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
Leverage on Lieberman (0.00 / 0)
Can't we just take away his committee assignments already?

Barring that, there are things individual Senators can do to punish him.  Like, totally boycotting him.  Don't talk to him or his staff.  Don't help him with any legislation.  Piss all over the toilet seat right before he uses it.  Key his car.  Trip him "accidentally" in the Senate cafeteria, sending his food-laden tray flying.

In short, we gotta make his remaining years in the Senate hell.  Make him go out with a whimper instead of a bang.


[ Parent ]
Who's this "we" kimosabe? (4.00 / 1)
Lieberman is doing exactly what the ruling class was hired to do.  Silly rabbit!

[ Parent ]
By "we" I meant the Senate Democratic caucus, as well as the larger base pressuring them (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Yes they can do the math. They don't have 60 votes yet... (0.00 / 0)
..because Ben Nelson still ins't on board (if the media reporting is correct) and also it looks like Roland Burris is making a stand for a bill that "addresses cost, competition and accountability in a meaningful way" and those are elements missing in Liebercare (bit which, arguably, were in the last compromise). Well, if nothing changes, this isn't good enough. And once this cognition materializes, Senators can calculate they need reconcilation to have a chance to pass a healthcare bill.

[ Parent ]
Also, do you wanna say I'm "disconnected from reality"? (0.00 / 0)
Then pls check that comment I quoted below.
Yeah, so "disconnected from reality" that I warned 4 days ahead of the disaster what may happen. While many others here were dreaming of the great compromise.

[ Parent ]
I have no problem with that prediction (0.00 / 0)
What I have a problem with is people who vastly over-estimate the probability that reconciliation or removing the filibuster can actual be done.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
The rethuglicans successfully used rconcilation (0.00 / 0)
So, why shouldn't the Dems be able tot do so, too? Well, would you pls provide some facts or logical arguments for your opinion?

[ Parent ]
Needing every single one of the 60 votes was the wrong strategy. Period. (4.00 / 1)
It should be clear by now that only through reconcilation or by getting rid of the filibuster anything meaningful can be passed. All those who still chase Snowe or Collins are fighting windmills. Even if they get them on board, the horrible bill coming out of this would be a failure! It's time to abandon the 60 vote fantasy, really.

[ Parent ]
Obama, Rahm and Reid are master strategists.. (4.00 / 3)
I can't believe Obama handed HCR off to Harry -master of Senate rules, without knowing exactly where it would end up.

The biggest kink in Chris' post is that Obama stepped in suddenly not to demand his good buddy Joe support the Reid bill, but that the entire Senate bill and 55 Senators capitulate and be written as Joe demands.

It really seems Joe is/was just a tool used by Reid and Obama to get where they intended to go all along.  

Nationalism is not the same thing as terrorism, and an adversary is not the same thing as an enemy.


[ Parent ]
This is exactly right (0.00 / 0)
The communication problem with this never works. And if all the people we trust on this issue suddenly start trashing the bill even when it's good in order to trick Lieberman, activists will follow their lead do their very best to defeat the bill, which could lead to Congressmembers who aren't "in" on the trick to actually oppose it when they start getting pressure.

Get your copy of The Progressive Revolution
Me on Facebook

Me on Twitter


[ Parent ]
I seriously doubt that Dean and Markos (of DailyKos.com), (4.00 / 2)
and anybody else you might suggest, are playing games of chicken. This whole line of support-what-you-don't-want-in order-to-get-what-you-want is, IMHO, bullshit.

This may seem like we're through the looking glass on this - our betrayal - but it's not that way. This is the reality of the Congress sausage factory and the American political process.

Though they probably said this in 1994 with Bill Clinton's attempt at health care reform, I think once again our side played this wrong all the way along. This time Obama tried to avoid Clinton's unsuccessful tack of telling Congress what to do. Instead, Obama tried pushing "principles" for health care reform, such as not increasing the deficit and expanding health care to all Americans.

Well, those "principles" turned out to be a wrong tack, and it seems that Obama is a sell-out, considering his deal with big Pharma.

There are lots of questions, but, no, I don't think a successful strategy is supporting something you don't want.


[ Parent ]
Why this obsession with LIEberman? (4.00 / 4)
I don't understand this obsession with Sen. LIE. He's only doing his part as a part of the larger strategy to destroy any real reform. In this sense, he's no maverick, he's a fucking team player! He's only doing the White House's bidding on this, courtesy of Rahm and his boss.

Ditto for Nelson, Bayh, Lincoln and Landrieu. They are playing on Rahm's Senate Deform Team. Shit, we should give them numbered jerseys at this point, eh?

Factor in the presstitutes. Factor in every other actor in all this. Why not play some people and wreak a little bit of havoc as a special Thank You?

We've already basically lost the Healthcare War. Fine. That doesn't mean we can't make some real trouble for those in our own freakin' party who betrayed the Dem Base. Why not make a little, bitty effort to embarrass the shit out of the White House? If we want to survive politically, we'd better... better that people know where progressives come from than lump us all in with people like... the wingtard Dems that got us here.

Remember that all that's left now is a  stupid bill 80% of Americans will positively hate over the next few years. Expressing dullard support and voting that way will only fatally wound progressivism in the eyes of the larger public. On the other hand, this would be a nice opportunity to make some trouble and embarrass those what brought us here, fully expecting our sycophantic compliance.

I'm suggesting that if progressives want to survive Obama's first term, they'd better start being more combative in creative ways. Anyone who stays in the Veal Pen will find their fundraising crashing soon. Real soon.

This is but one opportunity to make some serious trouble.  Sometimes it's better to bite the hand that feeds.

"In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State" -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


[ Parent ]
Not to mention that Lieberman isn't THAT reflexively dumb (0.00 / 0)
If liberals start chanting, "we hate single payer!" Lieberman isn't gonna suddenly jump on board the H.R. 676 Express.  At least I think...

[ Parent ]
If Leftwing Dems could do this: (0.00 / 0)
So the best strategy, I think, is to just communicate clearly our goals and fight as hard as possible to achieve them.

I doubt we'd be in this situation.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
"I expressed my support for the compromise, too" Indeed. (0.00 / 0)
Yeah, I remember that:

Plus, as a negotiation stance, the hard line position of FDL...   (4.00 / 1)
..is much more reasonable than Chris stomping for support of the compromise now. Firstly, it's much too early, we don't know about the details, but we can be sure there are some devils in it that are unaccptable. And then, if the obstructionists notice that the progressive base supports the compromise, this wil only show them there is still some room for manoevering the progressive block into more concessions. That's bad negotiation tactics. Bad bad bad.

http://www.openleft.com/showCo...

I'd rather have been wrong...


Hey (4.00 / 3)
Has anyone seen that HuffPo is reporting on its front page that Obama is giving Citibank a $38 billion tax break this close to Christmas? I tell you it's a Christmas Miracle!

[ Parent ]
The drug-reimportation thing really hurts. (0.00 / 0)
They are just toying with us now.

Off topic: Hey, Chris? (0.00 / 0)
You still think Obama's the great Liberal hope?  

I'm sorry I voted for him.


How long have you been reading this blog? (4.00 / 6)
That just feels like a bizarre question for someone to pose to me.

[ Parent ]
Everybody has to start sometime (0.00 / 0)


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Someone thought he was the great liberal hope? (0.00 / 0)
Delusions of granduer I guess.  

[ Parent ]
With each passing day (4.00 / 3)
I become more and more proud of my vote for John Edwards in the CA primary.

[ Parent ]
I am a prophet! (4.00 / 4)
I just want to point out how smart I am, so everyone should pay more attention to what I say.  :-)  My first comment after the news of Medicare buy-in first appeared was Fight Lieberman and Medicare Buy-in Fake

We progressives need to prevent Lieberman from forcing us to accept the Medicare buy-in "compromise" instead of a strong public option.  

Joementum, I'm talking to you!  Do this and I and every other progressive will hate you forever and work for your defeat!!!!!

and later when people sounded supportive I responded with Shhh

be quiet

only type that in very small letters

my biggest worry is they will realize this is better than what we've been fighting for the whole time

the precedent set is huge

DON'T LET THIS PASS!!!  A REAL PUBLIC OPTION OR DEATH!!!!



Yeah I remember that (0.00 / 0)
and I applaud your valiant efforts.  But I doubt that Lieberman or even his staffers peruse Open Left (though given his apparent MO maybe they should).  If only Weiner and Hacker had kept their fat gobs shut we'd be home free with the Medicare buy-in right now.

[ Parent ]
'You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talking...' (0.00 / 0)
Looks like you're ridiculing me for doing a bit of harmless fishing for compliments, buddy!
Damn.
"I get no respect. The way my luck is running, if I was a politician I would be honest."
:D

[ Parent ]
True (4.00 / 1)
I'd like to see the conservoDems and GOPpers to the blame for not allowing HCR to pass.

Need to stop compromising so that the left can vote yes and let the right vote no. Even if the result is no bill or no cloture.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


Yes, Chris, this makes too much bizarro sense! (0.00 / 0)
As long as the votes disappear when it comes time to actually vote on this thing, I couldn't agree more.

If the White House can do head fakes and bait and switch out the wazoo, so should every progressive/liberal in congress!

I'm not being snarky here, though perhaps I should... indeed, I almost feel naughty for saying this, but this makes serious tactical sense.

Let the massive press op begin expressing undying fealty to the WH on this, only to vote against it when the time comes!

"In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State" -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


Trashing the Rahm strategy and the Dem Brand (4.00 / 1)
Rahm pushed through a Big Tent Democratic Party by recruiting moderate Republicans to run as Democrats, and now we have the result. This is not flying with the base. All it's done is weaken the Democratic brand in the name of a Congressional majority that is not.

The trend developing in the Democratic Party is looking similar to what just happened in the GOP. Just as the base demanded to be heard and took to the streets to get that hearing, the same scenario is unfolding on this side now.

Obama's bipartisanship has gone up in flames. Even the Dems can't be bipartisan within their own caucuses in the House and Senate. And with Howard Dean's dissing of the health care bill tonight the progressive revolt has begun within the party establishment. It will in interesting to see where this kertuffle goes.


Just for the record (0.00 / 0)
Which Conservadem Senators were recruited by Rahm Emanuel?

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
Actually Dean pushed the Big Tent (0.00 / 0)
It was Dean who implemented the 50 state strategy and pushed for candidates in conservative parts of the country, not Emanuel.  

[ Parent ]
Not true (4.00 / 8)
Dean didn't recruit candidates - that is the job of the DCCC and the DSCC. Those outfits recruited conservative to middle of the road candidates even in places where that was unnecessary. Rahm ran the DCCC before the 2006 elections (and some people said he still has running the show there through the 2008 elections, but your mileage may vary on that claim.)  Dean pushed to organize in all 50 states - something that Rahm, the DCCC and the DSCC attacked him for. (Rahm didn't recruit conservative Dem Senators - that job was Schumer's.)

So Rahnm and company were pushing for conservative candidates without trying to run aggressively everywhere, and Dean was pushing running aggressively everywhere (without necessarily pushing conservative candidates.)

Dean also, as he has since his presidential run, pushed Democrats to run explicitly as Democrats (being from the the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party) while Rahm has consistently told Democrats that they need to run to the right, think small.

Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison


[ Parent ]
What you just wrote has been said to Dtzone several times. (4.00 / 2)
He repeats the meme anyway.  

[ Parent ]
because it's true (0.00 / 0)
and I will continue to repeat it, because it's the truth.  

[ Parent ]
This is not true (0.00 / 0)
Dean had a huge say in recruiting candidates to run.

Dean also, as he has since his presidential run, pushed Democrats to run explicitly as Democrats (being from the the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party) while Rahm has consistently told Democrats that they need to run to the right, think small.

Not true, I covered the DNC in 2006 and 2008, Dean had a lot to do with the candidates who ran, people like Jim Webb, Jon Tester, Brad Ellsworth, Bobby Bright and Walt Minnick were all candidates Dean HIMSELF pointed out in conference calls that I was on with him.

Rahm didn't think this was a good idea and we should focus on areas we can win.  


[ Parent ]
None of the big four (4.00 / 1)
Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu and Lincoln, were newly elected Senators recruited by the DSCC in 2006 or 2008.  For this particular case, the DSCC, DNC, and 2006/2008 recruiting and election strategy are all irrelevant, since they had nothing to do with bringing these people into the Senate (except maybe Lieberman with his 2006 reelection, but even then barely).

[ Parent ]
True (0.00 / 0)
but I was talking specifically about House Blue Dogs.  

[ Parent ]
First off (0.00 / 0)
you have mentioned an odd list that includes people who ran as populists, not conservatives (Webb and Tester.) They do not make your point.

Second, this is confused.

were all candidates Dean HIMSELF pointed out in conference calls that I was on with him.

If you mean to say 'Dean said on a conference call that he recruited these people' then say so, because recruit doesn't mean 'point to someone on a conference call.'    

Next, you still seem to fundamentally misunderstand the 50 state strategy, so the alleged facts you point to are not relevant to your point.  I know Rahm only wanted to focus on certain areas, because that is what the dispute over the 50 state strategy was about.  But Rahm pushed conservatives despite wanting to avoid fighting in many places.  

What you quoted was about how candidates should run, not where Democrats should recruit candidates, which candidates they should recruit or where they should organize.


Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison


[ Parent ]
The Democratic majority should have allowed it to be taken into filibuster. (4.00 / 3)
It would have served two purposes: calling out the Republican Democrats and exDemocrats and Independents, and killing the bill, which is what should happen anyway.

It would have been enlightening to constituents to see Lieberman filibustering with the Republicans.


Agreed (4.00 / 1)
If the conservatives want to stop the bill, make them do their own dirty work. Or, call their bluff. What was the downside to making them follow through on the filibuster?  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Rehabilitating the House as an equal chamber (4.00 / 1)
Perhaps a guy can dream but...

If the Senate actually manages to pass a watered-down insurance reform bill (and IMO it's still an "if") with the demand that the House largely ratify it, the progressive caucus should unite and send the message that the House pass the Senate bill without changes only after the Senate passes a second, public option bill via reconciliation. Until then, if asked to vote on the Senate bill (or it's mirror that will come from a conference) the progressive block will vote no. This gets the insurance reforms that cannot be done via reconciliation through the Senate process, allowing them to do the public option via reconciliation.

The House is an equal chamber of the Legislature. The Senate alone has created it's own extra-constitutional rules that effectively reduce the co-equal House to a ratifying body. That should not be allowed to stand.

The House Democrats should make clear they are prepared to act on and pass the Senate bill. They are prepared to complete health care insurance reform. However, they will not do so until the Senate acts on health care competition reform. Otherwise, they will not be reducing to a ratifying body.

(Of course, pigs will fly first...)

Jello Jay: "So we didn't get anything."


We are Hostage to our Compassion (0.00 / 0)
The reason Joe was able to play that game was on this issue he knew the left would split when push came to shove.

That fact that some people will be helped that wouldn't be otherwise allowed him that flexibility. As long as it is just a bit better then nothing even with a huge payout for business, he knew his demand wouldn't kill it.  


The CPC/Bernie/ Brown should come out and say (0.00 / 0)
that we are SO happy with the bill and immensely pleased by ease of transition to single payer this bill will provide. If they can say things that don't make sense and win then so can we!  

Agitate.Liberate.Create.

Opposing the Bill Gives Us Power (4.00 / 1)
Either someone takes it seriously and offers something to bring us back to the table, or the shithouse collapses and we walk away with someone to blame and hang the disaster around their necks come November. Either way, it's better than the slow slide of constant capitulation. We started off on the wrong foot - "something, anything, we just want it this year or it won't happen for a generation". They started with "nothing, not now, not ever". Which squeaky wheel gets the grease if you're trying to get out of a ditch?

Here's how to pass a better bill (4.00 / 2)
First, progressives have to come up with the votes to kill the bill. That's key. Either house will do, but even better if it's the senate. Once they come up with the votes, they have to meet with Obama & Reid and explain to them in no uncertain terms that if they don't come up with a better bill, they will kill the current one, and in so doing, hurt centrist Dems like Obama & Reid enormously politically. Voters might hate a bad bill being passed, but they'll absolutely despise Dems who couldn't pass ANY bill.

Voters HATE weakness in politicians. And failure to pass a bill will show pure weakness.

But how do these centrists actually get such a bill passed, with the likes of Lieberman and Nelson blocking it? Good question. Here's how. Centrist have to threaten these right-wing pseudo-Dems with reconciliation (and possibly retaliation, via pulling their chairmanships, depriving their states of federal pork, etc.). I.e. threaten to make them politically irrelevant. I firmly believe that this would force these RW "Dems" to cave to progressive demands, which would get a better bill passed without reconciliation being needed (except as a very real threat--and it has to be real).

It's very simple:

1 - Progressives threaten to kill this bill unless it's made more progressive, scaring the shit out of the centrist Dem leadership, because it would be disasterous for them.

2 - To avoid this, centrist Dem leaders threaten to do an end run around RW fake Dems and pass a more progressive bill, via reconciliation.

3 - Fearing political irrelevancy and shame, RW fake Dems cave to progressives and grant some of their demands. Their bluff has been called. Joe weeps to Hadassah.

This can only work if progressives stand firm, the Dem leadership is sane, and RW fake Dems are bluffing. I think all three are possible.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


2 Problems With Your Analysis (0.00 / 1)
1.  Dean says KILL THE BILL and doesn't support it at all

2. Neither you nor anyone else outside of a few party leaders knows what is actually in the bill.

Typical bowers post, however...


Two problems with your comment (4.00 / 1)
1. Reading comprehension re: Dean. Chris wrote "at the time" which doesn't seem to have registered with you.

2. "Typical bowers post..." is ad hominem and troll worthy. Don't like Bowers' stuff? You might consider not reading OL, since he writes a lot here. Of course, you've been here all of a week, so maybe you just created an account to tweak us all.

Troll rated.

Karl in Drexel Hill, PA


[ Parent ]
this is snark (0.00 / 0)
As was said upthread, reverse psychology can only work in individual cases, that is, it's impossible to keep the true intention secret in any group, as it must become known to the group to be acted on.

On the healthcare subject, am starting to believe there are many more DINOs than we suspect. All who can conceal their true allegance (to capital) from the voters will do so. But if necessary, just enough will visibly sell out the voters for moneys interests causing reform to fail. These are undoubtedly the least likely ones to need base voter support for reelection...ie. traitor Joe.

This dynamic may be large enough to foil even a 51 vote senate victory, if necessary to support the profiteering of their true base.


Government by organized money is no better than government by organized mob..... FDR


Donate to Open Left










Friends of the Earth thanks the OpenLeft community for the ideas you generate and your contributions to the progressive movement.

As an anti-spam measure, there is a 24-hour waiting period after registering before new users can comment.
blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search