From "Bitch-Slap" To "Gaslight" — Grokking The GOP Game

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 19:45


A couple of weeks ago, I wrote a diary, “John McCain Is A Dangerously Hot-Headed Celebrity POW Who Can’t Remember How Many Houses He Owns”, in which I referenced Josh Marshall’s 2004 post, “the Republicans’ Bitch-Slap theory of electoral politics.”  I went on to say, “Yes, it’s an offensive term, and it was meant to be.”

The concluding line of the passage I quoted was:

Demonstrating Kerry’s unwillingness to defend himself (if Bush can do that) is a far more tangible sign of what he’s made of than wartime experiences of thirty years ago.

The main reason this works so well is two-fold–as I’ll elaborate on jump.  But the essence is simple:  Conservatives are confronational, while liberals are cooperative, which gives conservatives an edge.  The prize is culturally working-class swing voters whose political interests align more with liberals, while their political instincts align more with conservatives.

The full background and complexities of how this works are simply beyond most liberals, which is why the Democrats keep losing.  Many old-style New Deal and Civil Rights-era liberals had a “fighting faith” that was fundamentally moral, not military, and they could cut through the miasma that todays more tepid liberals seem perpetually encompassed by.  But they are in very short supply these days.

While some have possibly learned some of the lessons of 2004, the relative lack of such fighting liberals means we lack a critical mass that truly understands the conservative mentality and how it evolves from one battle to another, one presidential campaign to another.  Someone who does understand is award-winning novelist Jane Smiley, and, she’s just written a short, but must-read diary at Huffington Post, titled “Gaslight”, after the Charles Boyer-Ingrid Bergman movie.  In a very few short few sentences, she captures the essence of how the quantitative increase in the intensity of lying actually reflects a qualitative shift in the nature of the game being played.  Yes, “bitch-slapping” is still part of the mix, but it’s now only part of a more sophisticated game.
 

Paul Rosenberg :: From “Bitch-Slap” To “Gaslight” — Grokking The GOP Game
As Smiley explains:

Remember the old Charles Boyer-Ingrid Bergman movie Gaslight? In it, a famous opera singer is murdered. Her niece is then seduced by the murderer, who constantly tricks her and lies to her in order to prove to her that she is crazy, so that he can institutionalize her and get the jewels he missed the first time. Gosh, what does this remind me of — oh, yeah! John McCain, Bill O’Reilly, and the Republicans! Same motive–grand theft, same strategy–asserting with a straight face that what we all know to be true is complete wrong — we must be crazy to think that!

This is key, really, since the growth of new media makes it increasingly impossible to hide the lies.  They now must simply be denied right to our faces.  And that’s precisely what is happening.  Smiley continues:

When O’Reilly was challenged on calling the Spears parents “pinheads”, but not the Palin parents, those gaslights kept flickering, but he denied saying it, even though it’s on tape! Then there’s McCain. Don’t we know he’s been in Washington for a generation? Don’t we know he’s voted with Bush 90 percent of the time? It’s all on tape! Its fully attested and in the public record. But don’t look at the flickering gaslights, dear. And that brooch in your purse? Don’t you realize you put it there? Darling, you must be crazy!

So, the Republicans have gone beyond lying. Bush and Cheney have been great liars, really, the best. Rove has made a career, and even a philosophy of lying about everything. But there is a special cold villainy to the way they have taken it to the next level now. “Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.” Rather than repent, they plan ever more of the same.

That last sentence is key: The liberal mind simply can’t comprehend how anyone could not repent in such a situation.  The explanation is obvious: the distilled essence of conservatism as practiced in America today is sociopathy.  Think Criminal Minds, not West Wing.

Smiley continues, and concludes:

Knowing that we know what they know, they now tell us we’re crazy, that black is white and cats are dogs and John McCain is a maverick and Sarah Palin is a tax cutter (hear the one about Sarah P. leaving the town of Wasilla with 19 million dollars in long term debt? You did? No, you didn’t, darling. You must be imagining things)

Well, we are crazy if we let them get away with it. The whole world thinks so.

She’s right, of course.  But what she says is just a beginning, a wake-up call and a prod to get us moving in the right direction–if only we’re willing to go there.

Fleshing Things Out

In the intro, I said that the GOP “bitch-slap” stragey worked because of two reasons, which I summarized quickly:

The main reason this works so well is two-fold–as I’ll elaborate on jump.  But the essence is simple:  Conservatives are confronational, while liberals are cooperative, which gives conservatives an edge.  The prize is culturally working-class swing voters whose political interests align more with liberals, while their political instincts align more with conservatives.

I now want to elaborate some more, as a means towards sharpening our sense of how to respond.

First, let me expand a bit on the ideologically-based aspect.  Conservatives believe in force and violence in the same fundamental way that liberals believe in reason and creativity.  While liberals are willing to fight if forced to, they are not anxious to do so, because they are well aware of the costs.  Conservatives, OTOH, are generally heedless of them, indeed, they often welcome such costs, and take advantage of them.  This can be seen through a variety of complementary approaches–Lakoff’s Strict Father/Nurturant Parent dichotomy, and Altemeyer’s work on rightwing authoritarianism are two examples that come readily to mind.

The second reason this works is cultural:  The working class (especially the Scotch-Irish), with whom liberals have long been allied, shares the conservative’s perceptions about the primacy of force–and ultimately, violence–in the realm of politics.  They know damned well that politics is a life and death struggle.  In many cases, they have family members who have died as a result of politics–black lung disease, the Vietnam War, police shootings, etc.  And, as educationaction has explained many times over here in the  “Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing” series, they know that they only have political power by joining together to fight for it.

From the Great Depression forward, militant leftists played an important role in bridging the gap between working class masses and liberal politicians and middle-class sympathizers, which is one reason (among many) why those leftists  were so intensely targetted during the McCarthy Era.  Even afterwards, however, there were a good many liberals influenced by the struggles of the New Deal era, and succeeding struggles, like the Civil Rights movement–particularly those with  working class and/or minority background. As I said before, such liberals had a “fighting faith” that was fundamentally moral, not military.  And they are in very short supply these days.

Albion’s Seed: 4-Fold Matrix For The Culture Wars

While some have possibly learned some of the lessons of 2004, the relative lack of such fighting liberals means we lack a critical mass that truly understands the conservative mentality and how it evolves from one battle to another, one presidential campaign to another.  Someone who does understand is Jane Smiley, which is why it’s not surprising that she wrote the “Gaslight” diary.  But to understand the further implications, it helps to look back at another diary she wrote a while back at Huffington Post, “Jane’s Bingo! Award for Most Informative Book of 2006”, written on December 29, 2006.  

The book Smiley was writing about was Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America, by David Hackett Fischer, (Oxford University Press, 1989).  It describes American political culture in terms of four distinct cultures of immigrants from the British Isles.  These are:

* East Anglia to Massachusetts: The Exodus of the English Puritans

* The South of England to Virginia: Distressed Cavaliers and Indentured Servants

* North Midlands to the Delaware: The Friends’ Migration

* Borderlands to the Backcountry: The Flight from Middle Britain and Northern Ireland (Scots Irish).

Over time, the influences have spread far beyond the original genetic/cultural carriers, so this is not a simplistic quasi-racial argument.  Most American Jews, for example, belong to the Friends’ (Quakers) cultural tradition, as do American liberals in general.

My DKos diaries were very much tied up in controversies surrounding how the Socts Irish are seen, particularly focalized by contrasting Smiley’s take on Fisher’s work with James Webb’s rather univocal championing of the Scots Irish cause.  In order, these were: “Political Correctness vs. Discussing American Culture At DKos”, “Jane Smiley and James Webb-Contrasting Views on The Scots Irish”, and “A Four-Fold Vision of American Politics”.  Long story short, I generally concur with Smiley’s view, as expressed in this passage:

After reading Albion’s Seed, my take on American history is that each culture has another that is its natural opponent. For the New Englanders, it was the Virginians, and the Civil War constituted the pitting of those two antagonists, with the Virginians being defeated and in many ways routed by the New Englanders–perhaps the Civil War in the US is more akin to the earlier Civil War in England that we usually realize. The Appalachian/Borderers culture, the natural ally of the Virginians, emerged from the Civil War in some sense intact and unscathed, because a) the Confederacy conceived of itself in terms of the slaveholding Virgina culture and b) the Appalachian southerners who fought for the South were in a position to move west after the war, and they did, leaving behind the ruins of a South that they had only been a tangential part of to begin with. It might also be noted that for the Borderers, the American Civil War possibly amounted to just more of the same after seven hundred years of border wars in Britain. The borderers/ Appalachian culture never had the opportunity to fight their natural enemies, really, until now, because they have never been ascendant until now. Their enemies are us, culture #3, the descendants of the Philadephians. They do not understand us and we do not understand them. What we see around us is the inevitable culture war.

It’s that fighting attitude at the core of Borderer culture that makes them so accessible to the arguments of conservative ideology, even when their class interests are sharply at odds.  Of course, working-class whites still tend toward the Democratic Party nonetheless–Thomas Frank was mistaken on this point–but they are subject to intense cross-pressure, which is considerably relieved when liberals/Democrats stand up and fight for what they believe, and stand up and fight for them.

Conclusion

Now it should be obvious at this point that Sarah Palin is a Borderer, and that her nomination powerfully taps into this centuries-old matrix of cultural tensions.  But even if the irrational, antagonistic core of Borderer culture is antithetical to the Quaker core of liberalism, it does not mean that unconditional war is necessary.  Indeed, figures like Steve Earle–far more than James Webb, IMHO–show quite powerfully that strong, and powerfully fruitful connections exist, and we must stand by them particularly when confronted by the likes of a Sarah Palin.

We need to fight just as hard as they do. And we need to fight twice as clearheaded.  We need to call out their lies, each and every one, because every lie they throw in our face is–in terms of their culture–an insult to our honor.

And if we will not defend our honor, then we will not command respect, and nothing else we do will matter.

More to come.  But it’s your turn now.


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Great diary. (4.00 / 2)
We need to call out their lies, each and every one, because every lie they throw in our face is–in terms of their culture–an insult to our honor.

The way I was raised (German-American – your analysis is missing us, and we’re one of the largest ethnic groups!) if someone lied about you or to you, and you did not call them on it, honor which came to question.  

On the flip side, if you called someone a liar, you expected them to fight you.  The counter “Are you calling me a liar?” is delivered in an aggressive posture, telling the other – here’s your last chance to back out of a fight.

So it’s not just the Scots-Irish.

It didn’t matter if you won the fight – it just mattered that you fought and bloodied your opponent.  You defended your honor.

I hate to write about politics in these terms – I would rather rely on reason and persuasion.  😉  

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; McCain/Palin 2008


 
oops, first paragraph shoud finish "it was your honor which came into question" (0.00 / 0)
danged cut & paste

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; McCain/Palin 2008

[ Parent ]  
Well, If A Jew Can Be A Quaker… (4.00 / 1)
you see where I’m going with this, right?

It’s whole acculturation thingie.  The first ones here set up the templates that most of the rest of us adapted to, to varying degrees.  We didn’t have to adapt completely to one or the other, just become significantly more like one than the others.  And most folks who came here probably met that criteria before they even stepped off the boat.

As for further adaptation, virtually all cultures have a broad range of codes they recognize, some quite broadly, some strictly limited in application.  When folks immigrate into a new cultural context, they adapt in some ways and remain distinct in others.  Adaptation is made easier when a similar code already exists in a relatively broad context.  The hardest thing, I think, is suppressing codes that are strong within a culture, but disapproved in the new context.

This happened, for example, with prohibition–which was not an original part of Puritan culture (they drank like fish), but did emerge powerfully in the late 19th Century, just as your ancestors were arriving in substantial numbers.  The hostility they encountered from the Puritan culture of the time no doubt contributed, in part, to your culture aligning away from them.  Additionally, Germans have a fairly strong honor-based culture to start with, so the affinity toward the Borderers was there to begin with as well.  But some sub-groups–such as Mennonites, for example–would have other affinities that would lead toward other cultural associations.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
The Quaker-Jewish Relationship (4.00 / 3)
I’ll add a bit to the thesis about the Quaker-Jewish relationship.  First of all, it did not really arise in the United States — but it became important in Philadelphia, and it was based on Business.  

To understand it, one must go back to Catherine the Great and her decision to support migration of better educated and more culturally progressive Jews to the Crimea as part of a modernizing scheme for the Ukraine in the 1700’s.  These were mostly German Jews from Central Europe — not so much those from the Pale.  And yes, they built schools, created a banking system, organized an Opera and a French Ballet School, and created businesses.  

The Ukraine had a surplus of grain in the black earth region, particularly hard wheat, and beginning in the late 1700’s and until about our Civil War Era, the Jewish Community in the Crimea organized the Grain Trade out of the Ukraine.  The shipping was done by Greek Shipowners, and the Finance for the operation — Liverpool Quakers.

Up until about 1845, and the opening of Kansas and the full development of Illinois, the US was one of the importers of wheat, and the Liverpool Quakers operated with the Crimea Jews on one end, and the Philadelphia Quakers operated from the other end.  The Philadelphia Quakers financed the trade — cotton from South Carolina to Liverpool for the Manchester Mills, and Russian Wheat back to South Carolina for the bread in the Cotton Lands.  

This began to change in the 1830’s when it was understood that Russian Red Wheat would grow well in Illinois, Missouri and eventually in Kansas, and that it could be exported through New Orleans.  Thus in a few short years the Jews of the Crimea migrated to Philadelphia, bringing along their banks, trade connections, and yes even cultural institutions, and in collaboration with the Philadelphia Quakers financed the development of the wheat growing regions in the Mississippi and Missouri basin — and the export houses of New Orleans that quickly took most of the international grain trade away from the Crimea.  The Jews and Quakers did not actually grow wheat — they established the world trading system that made farming wheat profitable — helped along by the steel plow and eventually the reaper machine. Even today many of the large International Grain Brokerage firms are in Philadelphia, still privately owned jointly by Quaker and Jewish Families.  

 


[ Parent ]  
Thanks! (0.00 / 0)
I only knew the tiniest hint of this history.  Can you recommend a book or other online resource where I can learn more?

Still, I have to say that my own Quaker connections came about through totally different means, which basically revolved around anti-war activism, and the broader nonviolent tradition of Thoreau, Ghandi and King–none of them Quakers.  There were, of course, broad cultural affinities, and I was, in fact, raised Unitarian (h/t Thoreau, a Unitarian’s Unitarian) in a congregation that was at least half comprised of secular Jews.

The Unitarians were, to my knowledge, the first of the Puritan culture to break out, and basically adopt significant aspects of Quaker orientation.  So they were a natural go-between for Jews like me who grew up in places without a large Jewish population or a religious orientation.


“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
Richard Buel's book, <i>In Irons</i> (0.00 / 0)
was published in 1998 by Yale Univ. Press, and the full title is In Irons: Britain’s Naval Supremacy and the American Revolutionary Economy. First chapter: “The Grain Economy of the Revolution.” It’s quite detailed on the subject of colonial grain production, and Philadelphia is prominent in the book’s index.

Prof. Buel explains the title in the Preface: “Besides the ordinary penal meaning associated with placing someone ‘in irons,’ the phrase has a nautical meaning. When a sailing vessel tacking to windward attempts but fails to come about, it can stall bow to wind, losing its momentum and its ability to steer, and remain unable to proceed until it falls off the wind far enough for its sails to fill again. Today the common phrase for this condition is ‘in stays.'”

I found this specialized and detailed study of the country’s early economy fascinating. It doesn’t begin as early as covered by Sara above, but it may cover the Philadelphia story for you. I return to it sometimes, in the same way I return to Albion’s Seed, to refresh my memory of the author’s explanation of conditions that bear on later developments.  


[ Parent ]  
Thanks A Lot! (0.00 / 0)
I will definitely add this to my list!

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]  
Book Recommendation (0.00 / 0)
Yea, Don Morgan, Merchants of Grain.  It has a paperback Penguin Edition, (can’t locate my copy right now) but late 1970’s, or early 80’s.

An early chapter in Irving Howe’s book, “World of our Father’s” describes the Jewish Immigrant Banking Culture in both New York and Philadelphia as they existed in the first and second generation in the US after they migrated from the Crimea. The migration begins about 1830, and is complete at about the same time as our Civil War.  

For the Quaker side of all this, I found Journals from the 1820’s and 1830’s very useful.  The Quaker Publisher, Pendel Hill, publishes various series of either Meeting Journals, or individual Journals — and since Friends don’t really “market” themselves, you just have to go look around in libraries for them, particularly in the libraries of old meeting houses.  For Quakers getting into the international grain trade in a big way (both the Liverpool and the Philly Quakers) had a good deal to do with opposition to slavery and the slave trade — big issue in the late 1700’s and early 1800’s.  They treated it as a moral issue, and in fact the Grain Trade with the end purpose being to feed the hungry, was understood in the 1820’s-30’s period as a form of international commerce that was a witness against Slavery.  From the US perspective, Quakers understood serious wheat growing by small farmers in the free states, (Illinois, Iowa) as an alternate model to the plantation systems of the south, and the spreading slave system in the trans Mississippi.  Thus building the systems for marketing grain to the world so as to make wheat growing profitable was a commercial means of witnessing.  The fact that there was a clear economic advantage doing this in the Mississippi-Missouri basin, given the easy access to a water route to New Orleans, an international Seaport, over the Crimea, where wheat had to be gathered from very small growers in the Russian Peasant settlements, and then hauled in small wagons on unimproved roads to Odessa for Shipment, is one reason that about 1830, the Crimea became seriously economically disadvantaged, compared to the promise of the new lands in the US midwest, with canal and river transport, and the promise that the US Government would do land grants so as to finance railroads, and would encourage immigration from Europe, so that there would be free farmers.    

There are several biographies of Herbert Hoover that focus on his youth in West Branch Iowa — one of the Quaker outposts initially settled in line with this thinking, I think about the mid 1830’s. Hoover’s West Branch life was in the immediate post Civil War period.  

Two other very odd sources — the Theatre Producer and in later life, Actor, John Houseman did a three part autobiography, part one, “Run-Through” has a chapter about the several years he spent as an apprentise in the Grain Trade in the early 20th Century.  Houseman was from a Romanian-Jewish Family — though his mother was Welsh and Irish, but his Father’s family was all linked up in business with the Odessa trading community, and with smaller trading firms in the mouth of the Danube in Romania.  Subsequently (given World War I and the demise of both the Hapsburg and Romanoff Empires)he became British, then went into the Grain Trade via the Liverpool Quaker-Jewish connection, and after some years trying to develop Argentinian grain sources, landed in the US and went into Theatre.  Anyhow his memoir of the early 20th century within this important, relatively small, but odd couple enterprise is very useful.  

Another odd source — Lillian Hellman.  She was born in New Orleans into one of the Jewish Families associated with the international Brokerage houses established there pre-Civil War to deal in the Grain Markets.  Now I really don’t totally trust Hellman when she writes proported non-fiction on many subjects, but she actually did treat these international markets fictionally in two plays, “The Little Foxes” and “The Other Side of the Forest” — in both cases of course with her own version of Marxist aesthetic theory laid on fairly thick.

     


[ Parent ]  
Wow! Well, I Asked For It! (0.00 / 0)
Now, I just need a fellowship stipend, so I can read all the above without the bother of everday work.

Thanks.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
I agree (0.00 / 0)
with the post but cannot accept the use of the term, even in this context.  I get it, please don’t mistake me for an idiot, but I don’t appreciate it.

 
What's so offensive about "Gaslight"? (0.00 / 0)
Great film, BTW.

[ Parent ]  
Albion's way was pretty good (4.00 / 1)
I’ve read it two or three times now. It is amazing how it does unify a lot of American culture, at least up to a certain point.

Two things I see with the Border culture (which I think was spot on in the book):

1. One of the biggest flashpoints that caused tensions with liberals, race, I think is slowly subsiding. I do think Obama can help on that front. Especially if he increases social welfare programs and brings more prosperity and opportunity to Appalachia and its diaspora. AND if card check is passed so that unions are much stronger in this community, much like the united mine workers of old. If Wal-mart america suddenly becomes class conscious due to higher union density, then I think the culture war necessarily subsides in favor of the bigger enemy.

2. One of the smartest tactical moves Dems made in the past 4-8 years was to drop the gun issue. We can be smarter about this and still impose reasonable limits. But this really is a cultural issue that cannot be overcome unless there is some outstanding messaging. I say just drop the whole thing and start heavily courting gun owners. One thing the border culture will not stand is perceived threats to its ability to protect itself.  


 
I don't know about the gun thing (4.00 / 2)
I always thought that the main messaging to answer that with was the simple assertion that guns in Macon, Missouri and guns in New York City are two very, very different things, that represent two radically different things, and it doesn’t make sense that both places should ahve the same gun laws.  

But I guess the NRA has an ability to screw up any argument like that with scare tactics and intimidation.


[ Parent ]  
it is a tough nut to crack no doubt (4.00 / 1)
And I suppose with demographic changes we could just whistle past borderers at some point. But governing majorities are made up of coalitions and the fact that the scots-irish culture is with us right.down.the.line on every class-conscious issue makes me want to concede that one cultural point in some way as a gesture that we really are on the same side and we need to look out for each other.

There’s got to be some way to find a compromise there that will stop the crazier aspects of our total lack of gun control but at the same time assures people that we’re not going to take away your rifles or even your hand-guns if you’re responsible and not crazy.


[ Parent ]  
I understand you (4.00 / 2)
and it’s almost certainly a losing issue.  It just annoys me that it’s a cultural issue deeply important to the people that live in places where the laws aren’t even going to affect them, while it is a matter of life and death in our major urban centers.  

I really do just wish there was a away around the NRA’s distortion on this issue.  Not even the UK, which has a universal gun ban, has taken hunting rifles away from farmers.  It annoys me that the pro-gun control crowd always gets associated with this position.


[ Parent ]  
Universal gun ban? (4.00 / 1)
Where are you getting this from?

Handguns have been banned for around a decade (although frankly the ban is useless and has only really punished enthusiasts, not taken weapons off the street) but everything else (excluding the ludicrous stuff like semi-autos) is legal if you have a licence.

Forgotten Countries – a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]  
Agreed On The First, Less On The Second (4.00 / 3)
Card check and re-unionization will be huge on the first front, IMHO.  The second, though, I think is much more complex.

I know that people think gun politics matters enormously to voters, but the GSS data I’ve looked at doesn’t support it.  I think that it matters a lot less to voters than it does to an activist infrastructure, and I’d really like to have more in-depth understanding of that infrastructure.

One thing that can’t be stressed enough is that most gun-control is directed toward handguns, particularly in an urban setting, while most gun-owner concerns center around long guns in a rural setting (even for urban or suburban dwellers, they’re interested most in using them to hunt in rural areas).

The anti-gun-control movement has, in my view, long been driven by the gun industry itself, and sustained by the argument–or, more properly, the fear–that urban handgun control will lead inevitably to banning of all guns whatsoever.

There are some exceptions, of course.  Take the assault rifle ban, for example.  But that had super-majority support!

So, the bottom line of what I’m saying is that I may agree in terms of what the results may be, but the dynamics are far more complicated than most anyone is willing to allow.

And, of course, the urban black problem with handgun violence has its roots in the fact that the urban black population is directly descended from rural blacks who were mostly surrounded (and heavilty influenced) by Borderer culture.  

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
I agree (0.00 / 0)
I think it’s very complicated. And a lot of my feelings are from anecdotal evidence as opposed to scientific surveys. But you hit it on the head. It’s EXACTLY the slippery slope mentality.

How do we combat that? Because this issue is a bigger under-the-radar obstacle to achieving full-blown class-conscious political re-alignment than many I fear realize.  


[ Parent ]  
Reality-Based Politics? (4.00 / 1)
I don’t think we make headway directly as much as we make headway after we make headway with a broader reality-based approach.

This is incredibly vague, but it’s because I see this as a shift that has a large number of manifestations with complicated inter-relations.  But I do know, for example, that as environmentalists work more closely with hunters, their relationships become more reality-based, and less based on emotionally-charged cultural generalizations.  As the distrust level starts to drop, the possibilities for broader dialogue and more fact-based discussion increases.  This is just one example of how the way forward might look.  

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
Sort of a think globally, talk locally approach? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]  
Yes, You Could Say That (4.00 / 1)
Well, what do you know?  You just did!

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]  
Yeah (4.00 / 1)
I think we’re really screwed on almost any cultural issue until we can get the current politics of distortion and association scrapped.  We might win on one or two issues where some egregious harm is made obvious, but we’re going to lose until we can somehow force a rational discourse.

[ Parent ]  
They were relatively Bordererish even beforehand (0.00 / 0)
Not only did rural black culture have a lot of Borderer influence, their ancestors on the African continent generally belonged to fairly Borderish cultures.

Those taken from the area around the mouth of the Congo, north into Cameroon and south into northern Angola belonged to a pioneer culture that had only comparatively recently (anywhere from a thousand years to a couple of centuries, depending on area and which theorist you believe) expanded southwards along the coast and the rivers from the core Bantu areas to the north-west. There weren’t any particularly large states and other factors such as kin-based political organisation have affinities in Borderer society.

Further north along the southern coast of West Africa, it’s not as good a fit – there were recognisable empires, multiple major urban centres, Islamic culture and the links that brought and more sophisticated political systems. Nevertheless, given that most slaves were either enslaved from the stateless peoples between the major river systems or came from defeated states and given that kinship did remain important, they were still perfectly absorbable by Borderer society – much more than by Cavalier society.

Forgotten Countries – a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]  
C'mon, Paul, give me something to latch on to (4.00 / 5)
something to disagree with, something to pooh pooh or disprove.

Something, basically, to CONFRONT HEAD-ON.

Because I hate it when I 100% agree with you.

And, as I just commented here and here, Obama is STILL guilty of it. Why, I can only guess, but none of my guesses is very satisfying.

I don’t get it. I just don’t. Are they stupid, lazy and/or cowardly? Is it simply not in their nature to be able to fight? Or do they figure why bother, if they can “win” without fighting–whether they actually win or lose (being in the minority and out of the presidency wasn’t so bad for many Dems–they just had to go along with the program and they got their earmarks).

And clearly, the fighting spirit AND practice is going to have to come from outside, be it through outside pressure, or through outsiders replacing insiders. As it always does.

“Those who stand for nothing fall for anything…Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture” — Alexander Hamilton


 
Well, Maybe We Can Disagree In The Comments! (4.00 / 1)
There’s always hope, right?

Even though hope is not a plan.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
More than Honor (0.00 / 0)
The core problem, it seems to me, is how do you re-create a Democratic Party that has a fighting faith because it has a fundamental morality that it can fight for. Obama’s speech at the convention developed a foundation for this morality in its emphasis on we are all in this together and in stating that the health of the nation was a matter of both collective and individual responsibility.

Liberals, coming out of the 1960s, were vulnerable to conservative claims that liberals were engaged in special pleading for particular constituencies–blacks, women, gays, etc.–and that they eschewed individual responsibility in favor of letting the government be responsible for the health of society. The locus of morality shifted from the Democratic Party to the claims of separate social movements. Obama’s speech critically undercuts those heretofore effective attacks.

Liberals were trying to create a more inclusive society and polity. Now is the time to redeem the possibilities of that greater inclusiveness. When we respond to lies, it seems to me that it’s not enough to call them out as lies; we need to say what their consequences are. I think some of the key terms to employ are divisive and a distraction from the real issues. In other words, they prevent us from coming together to solve our common problems. That may be the most effective response to Sarah Palin.


 
Lakoff's Strict Father/Nurturant Parent dichotomy (0.00 / 0)
makes me crazy.

It’s completely backwards. It describes how we want the government to treat citizens (other than ourselves). But the government isn’t the parent of the people; the people are the parent of the government.

Look, instead, at the left and the right’s understanding of the country.

The right is a pathologically permissive parent. If my toddler bites yours on the playground, it’s not my kid’s fault. Your kid must’ve done something. If my toddler wants to take all the toys? Too bad for your kid! if anyone criticizes my child? Then they’re stupid, evil, and wrong. Because in the eyes of the permissive parent, their child cannot possibly do wrong. So they never require correction. They’re already perfect.

The left is a loving strict parent. If my kid bites yours … well. He ain’t gonna do that again. If he tries to take your toy, I won’t let him. I’ll speak sharply to him, I’ll guide him firmly and strictly not to take what isn’t his. If another parent says my kids acting up, I’ll look into the matter and come to my own conclusion, knowing full well that it’s perfectly possibly my kid did mess up, and fully willing to lovingly–and effectively–correct him. I’m strict because I love my child, because I want him to learn, to grow, to be healthy. There’s no tension between strictness and nurturing; they’re often the same.

It’s pathological permissiveness that’s abusive.

Ahem. Slightly OT. Sorry. That dichotomy just pisses me off no end.


 
Have You Ever READ "Moral Politics"? (4.00 / 1)
I really don’t have the timne or the patience right now to go through this one. more. time.  So I’ll just say that your arguments are based on misconceptions about what Lakoff is saying, rather than what he’s actually saying.

I will, however, say this one thing: there are not just two parenting styles.  There are three: Authoritarian (Strict Father), Authoritative (Nurturant Parent), and Permissive.  Conservatives operate out of the false-dichotomy-based belief that if they aren’t totally controlling, the only alternative is “anything goes.”  But there’s nothing particularly nurturant about ignoring your kids, which at bottom is what permissive parenting amounts to.

Giving kids a lot of latitude as they can handle it is not being permissive.  It’s holding them to standards that are less literal, and more general, more internalized, and thus more profoundly owned by the children involved–which, in turn, is much better preparation for acting as adults.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
Three types (4.00 / 1)
I once got into an on-line discussion with someone on the religious right on parenting and we both came to the conclusion we both supported Authoritative parenting, we just each assumed the other supported one of the extremes.

Now, I’m sure he was far more authoritarian than I, while I’m more permissive, but it was interesting that we at least agreed in theory.  The real difference, I believe, was fear.  I’m fearful of being too authoritarian and messing up my child forever while he fears being too permissive.  In each case we can see far more clearly how one extreme could hurt the child more than the other, so “playing it safe” has different results.


[ Parent ]  
The right is authoritarian (0.00 / 0)
toward citizens and permissive toward the country.

They manage to hit both extremes.


[ Parent ]  
Actually, This Is ALL Authoritarian (0.00 / 0)
Submission to established authorities is part of the package, as identified by Altemeyer:

Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a personality and ideological variable that is defined by three attitudinal and behavioral clusters which correlate together:[1] [2]

  1. Authoritarian submission – a high degree of submissiveness to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.
  2. Authoritarian aggression – a general aggressiveness directed against deviants, outgroups, and other people that are perceived to be targets according to established authorities.
  3. Conventionalism – a high degree of adherence to the traditions and social norms that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities.




“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]  
The reason you've had to go through this (0.00 / 0)
so. many. times. is because the framing of the argument is completely idiotic. Strict Father vs. Nurturant Parent. If you’re an expert in framing, for heaven’s sake, don’t fumble something so key that so many people on your own side misunderstand; I didn’t finish the book precisely because of this.

And my point is the opposite of ‘Conservatives operate out of the false-dichotomy-based belief that if they aren’t totally controlling, the only alternative is “anything goes.””

Then do believe ‘anything does’. That’s the very core of their belief. They see the country as a permissive parent sees a child who can do no wrong. A child who must not be criticized for even the most outrageous behavior. If you criticize the country/child, you’re wrong, stupid, and evil.

That’s who they are. That’s how they see this country. That’s what they think love of the country is. That’s what “Country First” means.

Whereas we on the left thing that being strict with a child/country is a wise and loving thing.



[ Parent ]  
Interesting point (0.00 / 0)
But a different one.  You have to be liberal before the concept of the government being our child even makes sense.  A conservative can’t follow your logic because the starting part is all wrong.

From the liberal side I can see where we can switch roles in term of who is the parent and who is the child — neither analogy is perfect and neither analogy explains everything — but you need to drop your pet view to see how the other analogy can work.  This doesn’t mean your perspective is bad, just different.  Work those liberal muscles and check out the other perspective as well.


[ Parent ]  
Aren't those three types (0.00 / 0)
essentially parallel to the superego, ego, and id?- I took Psych 101 at 8 am (years ago) and didn’t retain much, I’m afraid.  But it has long seemed to me that the right basically represents both the superego and id of our national psyche, while we liberals are the ego trying to balance the need for external structure and ungoverned emotions.


[ Parent ]  
Rachel Maddow (4.00 / 4)
I hope this directly relates to what we’re talking about in this thread. Yesterday or the day before Rachel Maddow rather made a show of explicitly saying that, in two examples, Palin was…”Lying”. Maddow when on to say that, in another specific instance, John McCain was…”Lying”. Just so you understand, what Maddow was doing was setting down a marker. No more let ’em off easy when they…”Lie”. Call it what it is…”Lying”.

Today I saw Obama on the stump. He was that blatant. He called them liars and, to add some punch to it he said “They must think you’re stupid”.

I hope my examples are in direct relation to what the thread is about rather than just generic examples of ‘getting a little tougher’ on the filthy, down-and-dirty opponent we’ve been dealing with for so many years.  


 
Yes, It DOES Directly Relate. Perfectly, In Fact (0.00 / 0)
At least that’s how I read Maddow.  Let’s hope she’s not the only one.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]  
Borderers HATE people who try to steal their stuff. (4.00 / 5)
That’s why a genuinely populist economic argument can work. If the Dems would commit whole-heartedly to a strategy of showing everyone how the Republican party’s reason for being is to steal from the rest of us and get away with it, they can win.

This is why McCain’s inability to remember how many houses he had was so powerful.

This is why the Republicans repeat the lie that Obama wants to raise everybody’s taxes.

Republicans exist to protect and promote the interests of people who want to steal our stuff, in a thousand different sneaky ways. Everything else is just a snowjob.

The Democratic political elite is afraid to make this argument because it is an elite–they are generally quite wealthy, and they’re afraid to be tarred with the same brush. But the Republican political elite are robber barons, and if we can paint that picture clearly, borderlanders will hate them for it.

Lots of working-class and middle-class people in this country just don’t see the Republican party for what it is–the tool of an exploitative, aristocratic class. Democrats argue among themselves over whether that is what’s going on or not. They are fools; of course that’s what’s going on. Don’t waste energy fussing over whether this analysis disrespects the workers by calling them dupes. Who cares? People who work for a living buy this bullshit because they have more important things to worry about. Progressives should devote their energy to revealing this con job–create an electorate empowered by awareness, so the people can look out for themselves.


 
Brilliant writing, especially this: (4.00 / 2)
Conservatives are confronational, while liberals are cooperative, which gives conservatives an edge.  The prize is culturally working-class swing voters whose political interests align more with liberals, while their political instincts align more with conservatives

I just wish, hope, WANT someone high up in the Obama campaign to read this diary and those words and realize: this is a campaign whose purpose is to WIN and the most important thing they MUST recognize is that fundamental fact: people who are “swing” voters view this as almost a competition and who is stronger, faster with the offense and defense will sway these voters.

Governing is secondary to the swing voters in these last 60 days

Please, please, read this diary!


 
I have been a tepid supporter of Obama, (4.00 / 4)
a yellow dog Democrat more than anything, until I read on dkos that Biden said criminal investigations for Bush officials were on the table. For the first time I felt this “hope” everyone’s been talking about, the hope for justice.

That was the day I finally put a bumpersticker on the car. I agree very much with Paul’s statment that working class/Borderer whites are subject to intense cross-pressure, and relieved when Democrats stand up and fight. That’s exactly how I felt.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]  
Thank you (4.00 / 3)
But you’ll notice that even here on Open Left, many people are still more fearful of being too forceful than not forceful enough.  Check out the conversation over at the quick hits today.  It starts with an Obama quote attacking Palin:

That is not change, come on,” Obama continued. “I mean, words mean something. You can’t just make stuff up. You can’t just make stuff up. We have a choice to make and the choice is clear.”

I put the “come on” in bold because one of the comments is:

Obama’s obviously got a point…
…but I think he’s gotta stop that “come on” bit. It’s a reflex, and I’m not sure that kinda sarcasm plays well. Kinda has that superiority know-it-all vibe, like Al Gore’s infamous sighing in the debates.

That worry had support from others.  Oh, we can’t be too mean.  Oh, we’ll get hit from the media.

We can’t play the same game the Republicans play, that much is true; not the exact same game.  But we do need to show strength in our convictions, in our actions and in our attitude.

My last point is one I’ll hand over to Eddie Izzard: “It’s 70 percent how you look 20 percent how you sound, and only 10 percent what you say.”  


 
There's nothing wrong with 'come on' (0.00 / 0)
except it’s going to get old fast if it’s his stock reaction he uses over and over again. They have to mix it up, keep the opponent off balance.

[ Parent ]  
Obama and Biden (4.00 / 1)
I wonder what others think about Obama’s “you can’t just make stuff up…they must think your stupid” comment (and other relatively strong [for him] responses) and Biden’s pretty full-throated condemnation of the Republican hatefest…particularly in the context of Paul’s post.  Both strike me as likely to be more effective than Kerry’s often delayed and restrained responses that were too often delivered in Senatese (or at least seemed to be).

Paul’s post about different cultures raises the question of how these different responses will be received by individuals immersed in these different cultural perspectives.  I suspect Obama’s will be most readily received by younger voters, who I’m guessing are less strongly rooted in the kinds of cultural perspectives Paul describes and more responsive to his smiling, confident sarcasm.  Biden’s seems more in tune with the Scots-Irish “fighting” perspective, though maybe not closely enough.  With different styles, both were challenging the honesty, integrity and honor of the Republicans pretty directly.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?


[ Parent ]  
COME ON, Mark! (4.00 / 2)
Aren’t you the one always telling me to tone it down?

And here we are agreeing 100%?

No, seriously, I may go overboard on this sometimes, but I generally think that if I’m not upsetting someone by being too confrontational, I haven’t really gotten to the core of the issue.  We simply have so much of that habitual make-nice socialization drilled into us that we come across as not really believing in anything we say, or do.

If you really believe in something, you have to be willing to make some enemies.  And, paradoxically, it’s only that willingness to make enemies that makes some folks trust you enough to become friends and allies.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
Confrontational (0.00 / 0)
Aren’t you the one always telling me to tone it down?

Yes, but you do it slightly the wrong way.  🙂

We’re all experts of what works for us, of course, but for me the difference is going for specifics instead of generalities.  I dislike attacking general categories of people even if it is technically correct.

But when encountering a very specific situation like this one it needs to be attacked with authority.  The narrative to the more general case is harder.

The problem with jumping to the general case (conservatives all lie, for example) is that kind of lumping is conservative in nature.  We are not a mirror image of them.  We cannot play the us versus other game and expect to win.

We have to play to our strengths, not theirs.

But we can’t just kumbaya our way to peace and harmony, either.

It’s tricky.  The conservatives have it easy — they are all that is good and righteous and everyone else is evil.  For us it doesn’t work that way.  The opposite of a conservative isn’t a liberal, but another conservative from a different group.  (See every war ever fought for an example.)

So our path isn’t as easy.  When you believe that intolerance shouldn’t be tolerated, you are bound to bump into some snags.

Now, I don’t know my way through this maze, exactly.  But I do know when you have a chance to condemn actual lies, evil policies, corruption and so forth, you must do it, and do it strongly.  When you keep it specific, you don’t run into the problems I worry about and you don’t start to violate liberalism itself by over-generalizing and stereotyping.


[ Parent ]  
I think you need a simpler (0.00 / 0)
way to get this message out. I just turn Clausewitz on his head.

Politics is war carried on by other means.


 
Great Post (0.00 / 0)
Thanks for posting this.  I just ordered a copy of Albion’s Seed.

The thesis of Albion’s seed seems very useful to me in uncovering a counter-narrative of race as contending regional/blood/ideological identifications.

This got me thinking on how the divisions between these groups get negotiated, and at times pacified, by a common identification with a more monolithic whiteness that is created/consolidated starting in the late eighteenth century but built through the nineteenth and twentieth.  This would be our more modern ideology of race, defined primarily by color, hierarchical, and binary: white/ other.  This is in part what binds, of course, the cavaliers and the scots-Irish in the Civil war.  The latter cast their lot with former, despite many of the class and even cultural affinities with African descendants.  

On a related note–we can think of the paradoxes of race in America as our inheritance from Jefferson.  There is the universalist Jefferson and the racist (white/other) Jefferson of “Laws” from Notes on the State of Virginia.  But there is another version who casts the Revolution as an ethnic racial struggle between Saxons and Normans, where Saxons represent certain democratic, decentralized ideals….

Anyway, the Saxons hold a prominent place in the nineteenth in how whites begin to imagine a common lineage– a mythology and an ur-whiteness that is transcendent of, say, the racialized divisions within whiteness presented here.

 


 
definitely in part…. (4.00 / 2)
“This is in part what binds, of course, the cavaliers and the scots-Irish in the Civil war.  The latter cast their lot with former, despite many of the class and even cultural affinities with African descendants.”

because many scots-irish most certainly did NOT cast their lot with them. Witness the creation of the state of West Virginia and the large union army contingents from central PA. Geography had a lot to do with civil war loyalties.  


[ Parent ]  
absolutely true (4.00 / 1)
Sorry–I should have been more specific.  I was thinking more in terms of how racial identification changed over the course of the nineteenth century and the history of resentment toward African-Americans coming strongest from groups who were closest to them economically.

Thanks for the correction, though.  


[ Parent ]  
You Might Also Want To Check Out "Jefferson's Pillow" By Roger Wilkins (0.00 / 0)
if you haven’t already read it.  Full title: Jefferson’s Pillow: The Founding Fathers and the DIlemma of Black Patriotism.

It’s really three or four books woven into one, but it really works, sort of like a fugue.  I wrote about one relevant part of it in my diary, “Fox’s Faux Populism vs A Shadow Elite–Pt. 1”:

Roger Wilkin’s book, Jefferson’s Pillow: The Founding Fathers and the Dilemma of Black Patriotism contains an instructive account of the origins of Virginia’s social order, centered around Bacon’s Rebellion (1676), which in turn has a central place in shaping the whole nation’s racial order.

Prior to this brief uprising, Virginia was still a rather fluid society, whose upper echelon had only recently clawed its way to the top.  When a variety of factors led to open rebellion, with Nathaniel Bacon at its head, there was a broad alliance of those left out of power–freemen with poor prospects, indentured servants and slaves, all of whom were relatively close in social standing, since slavery was neither permanent, hereditary, nor identical with being black.  Bacon’s rebellion fizzled out after Bacon died of dysentary,  but the elite was justifiably shaken, and undertook a two-fold strategy to prevent a recurrence.  

On the one hand, it sought to culturally define itself as superior, by adopting a culture oriented around classical Greece and Rome, requiring either tutors imported from England, or else the transport of young men to England for their education there.  By itself, this would only serve to intensify the sense of difference and stoke populist hostility.  The other side, however, had the opposite effect: blacks were utterly shut out of the white social order, condemned to permanent slavery as a hereditary condition.  By marking the black as totally others, totally beyond the pale, the elites could now portray themselves as quintessentially white, and therefore necessarily immune to populist hatred, since hating them meant hating yourself as a white person.

Of course, this doesn’t negate what you’re discussing happening at a later point in time.  Clearly this process was repeated with variations a number of different times, and in some sense, even, with every generation, and even every child born in every generation.  “You’ve got to be carefully taught,” as the song goes.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
Thanks, Paul (0.00 / 0)
That looks great—and useful for a project I am working on.  

[ Parent ]  
State of Confusion by Bryant Welch (0.00 / 0)
Welch thesis is that Republicans are Gaslighters extraordinaire. He is a psychiatrist who states that if a state of perplexity is created, certainty will trump veracity when it comes to settling our psyches. A great read.

“Bryant Welch was born to write this vitally important and highly readable investigation of how a cadre of ethically challenged political operatives and their religious and journalistic allies have gradually distorted and disabled the minds of ordinary Americans-and have all but crippled the once-extraordinary mind of America. It is not too late for us to reclaim our identity, but we will succeed only if we take to heart the lessons so lucidly laid bare by the remarkable work of this insightful psychologist and experienced political activist.” –Laurence H. Tribe, Carl M. Loeb University Professor, Harvard Law School  

http://www.amazon.com/State-Co…

 
Yes, I Heard An Interview With Him About 3-4 Weeks Ago (0.00 / 0)
Definitely a book to add to my list.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]  
First Sara Robinson, then you — (0.00 / 0)
(although I know, I know, you wrote about it at dkos a few years back) Albion’s Seed is going on my Christmas list.

But as a roughly three-quarter Borderer, one-quarter Cavalier American, what I want to figure out is, are there any redeeming qualities to the Cavalier culture?

For example, I’m intrigued by the Episcopal Church’s occasional championing of equal rights for gay people. How does the flagship of Cavalier culture arrive at the forefront of a civil rights struggle like that?

Montani semper liberi


 
Does The Name "Thomas Jefferson" Ring Any Bells? (4.00 / 1)
He might seem atypical, but he was just about the biggest thing in Virginia politics.  And then there was George Mason.

There are contradictions aplenty here, to be sure (“all men are created equal, except for my bastard son”), but it’s clear that accentuating the best part of this tradition yields something to be proud of.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
Shorter version (0.00 / 0)
This is precisely why anti-labor or lukewarm-at-best-to-labor  (we’re for Labor but damned if we can tell you why) Democrats are a big problem.

The labor movement (at its best) stands up and says “not on my back, you don’t”.  It is our side’s bloody-minded equivalent of the right wing cultural conservatives.  Its gut-level instincts were what kept the Democratic party strong in its heyday.  What replaces it now?  The blogosphere?  Don’t be silly.  It reaches what, 2% of the voters?  The blogosphere at best can introduce a clever theme that hopefully someone in the media or the campaign will pick up on.  It’s worth something but if this campaign isn’t enough to open your eyes to its limitations, there’s something wrong.

It’s a goddamned shame that the Democratic Party has been so busy running away from labor all these years.  We need a force like that on our side and we instead we kick it to the curb as “old-fashioned” and then wonder why we can’t get our ideas across better.

Memo to Chris Bowers:  still convinced your “creative class” analysis of a few months ago is the correct one?

The “creative class” is not enough and never has been.  

sTiVo’s rule: Just because YOU “wouldn’t put it past ’em” doesn’t prove that THEY did it.


 
Agreed 100% About Labor, Not About Chris (0.00 / 0)
For two simple reasons:

(1) The “creative class” needs unions as much as anyone, and the GOP’s venomous hatred of teachers unions shows that professional unions are not so different from mineworkers unions or longshore unions, when push comes to shove.

(2) Chris, Matt and Mike have repeatedly talked about labor issues and the importance of the netroots engaging with other progressive elements, with labor as the most potent of these.

That said, we clearly could be doing more to make this a reality than we have to date.  But it’s simply mistaken to lay the blame on Chris’s analysis.

Just keeping a blog like this going at the level it functions at is quite a feat.  To do more, and proactively build strong bonds with other progressive elements takes additional resources of time, energy and money.  Open Left can certainly do more, but to do so, it needs additional support.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
I'm Not BLAMING Chris' analysis (0.00 / 0)
Clearly this is a much deeper problem than that, and I could only wish that Chris’ voice was powerful enough to have the kind of effect you’re talking about here.  Obviously, Chris’ analysis at that time is not the CAUSE of the current problem – it’s clearly a symptom.

But the analysis is still problematical, and I think it’s wrong.  The “creative class” can never hope to REPLACE the labor movement as the main engine of the progressive movement, and I do think Chris let himself get carried away in the heat of the Clinton-Obama primary and veered in that direction.  At least, it felt that way to many.

I’m willing to write that off as a heat-of-the-moment type of thing, but anti-labor posts by commenters are still way too common on ALL progressive blogs and it’s a problem we need to learn to deal with.  YOU SHOULDN’T NEED A COLLEGE EDUCATION TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU SHOULD BE A DEMOCRAT, but there are a thousand cultural cues we send out saying that you do.  Way too many posts about the stupidity of the American people.  You may think we’re just talking among ourselves here, but these attitudes do filter out.

The bottom line is that a strong labor movement is our side’s best counter to the gut-level tactics that the Republicans use.  And we really need to understand that.



sTiVo’s rule: Just because YOU “wouldn’t put it past ’em” doesn’t prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]  
Agreed 100%! (0.00 / 0)
I just wanted to clear up a misunderstanding. This elaboration in response is better than your original comment.

Thanks.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
Confrontation vs Cooperation (0.00 / 0)
Conservatives are confronational, while liberals are cooperative, which gives conservatives an edge.  The prize is culturally working-class swing voters whose political interests align more with liberals, while their political instincts align more with conservatives.

This is a good piece, especially in highlighting leftists of a previous era and their agitation. My speculative comments below, however, are to suggest a different view of the above quoted text.

Conservatives are confrontational towards those outside their [instinctively defined] group. Without intending to eggregiously denigrate them, the underlying instinct is a primitive one (I would say “tribal”, but the use here would be unfair to actual tribes!).  Because there is no explicit reasoning offered for this black and white world, it cannot be immediately concluded there is no reasoning possible. Also, a strong system of religious codes and constraints exists to maintain and propagate intra-group cohesion and overwhelm narrow self-interest instincts.

Leftists believe in co-operation as a (and the only) sustainable system. This may be somewhere in the back of our minds or explicitly in theoretical frameworks. This is not necessarily built into our frameworks of action (though, to give credit where due, the idea of “public diaries” on these blogs is an attempt). The result is an ironical lack of cohesion within the group (co-operation at best reduces to back-scratching) even as the commitment to rational co-operation mutes the poorly defined group’s response to outsiders. I am not a Marxist, but outside of the writings of Marx (who spoke brilliantly of the “brotherhood of man” and “from each according to his abilities, and to each according to his needs”) what I come across (in admittedly snippets of reading) are self-interest based arguments (in an implicit nod to reductionism) that are, at best, incomplete. This is weak even in comparison to the much reviled “peace and love” foundations of the hippies.

What I see in the left landscape is some sort of marginal and cerebral war of ideas within the group, and a tepid response and a “principled” refusal to engage with the opposition. Or instinctive moral activism which can yield such anomalies as Markos Moulitsas’ comments about women in blogging.

While the tone above is authoritative, it is not intended to be. It is time-consuming to preface each sentence with “It seems to me”, but please assume as much!



 
Very Good Points! (0.00 / 0)
Quite a can of worms you’ve got there, pardner!

My short response is simply to say that one major poroblem we face is that radicalism is and has long been far too weak.  As your reference to Marx suggests, it is the radicals (not just Marxists) who supply the most unifying and principled visions and arguments. As their influence wanes, liberals drift toward the center and become reduced to “enlightened self-interest” which is often not nearly so enlightened as it imagines itself to be.

A longer response is certainly warranted, but doing it real justice will probably have to wait until after the election.  Hope you stick around, as I would love to discuss this with you.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
Worm hunting… (0.00 / 0)
Paul, no worries — I hope to stick around and we can revisit these meditations at a later date! I think you are on target with your identifying the drift to the centre that has resulted from waning radical influence(s). Though I disagree with Matt Stoller who thinks that Chomsky has ‘brilliantly marginalised” himself (whereas I think that he has kept radicalism alive, almost single-handedly… we cannot blame Chomsky for not being an inspiring figure — that’s not his shtick ;-)), I am heartened by this (OpenLeft) particular corner of the blogistan, including such material as your multi-part musing on Obama (Patriotism Smackdown?).

Another matter for discussion at a later date is your point about political interest vs political instinct. This seems related to Thomas Frank’s thesis in “What’s the matter with Kansas?”, which as of late has met with some theoretical and empirical criticism. More later!


[ Parent ]  
Labor is Left (4.00 / 1)
And isn’t about cooperation.  This is, as I’ve said ad nauseum, a class issue as much as anything else.  People on the bottom don’t think so much about cooperation, and people on the top don’t either.  It’s people on the middle-especially professionals.  It’s a particular group of leftists.

This is all complicated by the Abion’s stuff and the religion issues and rural/urban issues.  

Something I want to think more about is why?  Many of the pieces I feel like I understand.  But others I don’t.  For example, I’d like to write a post about “lifestyle politics,” the bizarre idea that if I buy a prius and wash and reuse my plastic bags that I’m somehow part of a movement. And that this means I don’t have to do anything else.  And that’s linked to this focus on service instead of action.

We’ve allowed ourselves to be programmed into almost total ineffectuality.  

Anyway.  Good stuff.

–Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]  
Labour vs Lifestyle (0.00 / 0)
(Notice a dull trend in my Subject lines? ;-))

EducationAction: I have a disagreement with the implied mutual exclusion in your argument (which I agree has been repeated many times over, and which I am quite sympathetic to). I think the three approaches you bring up are not mutually exclusive (which you sort of mention, yourself, with “do anything else”), and they feed into each other.

My claim is that individual choice activism starts out as lifestyle politics. The kernel of truth to it is the underlying notion (unrealised, at this stage) that common good arises from individual participation aimed at acting in some sort of authentic, affirming sense.

In a different sense, union and collectivist politics attack the problem structurally, rather than as atomic parts that, rather than adding up to a larger whole, results in chaotic conflict of individual priorities and causes. However, do can we take Labour politics as sufficient?

IMHO, there is both a wilful forgetfulness (or at least simplification) of the varying goals and contradictory impulses of individuals, as if they will get accounted for once the rentiers are sent packing or whatever. Again IMHO, this is the small bit of validity in “Selfish Gene” type arguments that caution us against ignoring the potentially outsized impact of self-preserving instincts.

It is not to sell self-help or feel-good books that Marx (as quoted before) urges: from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. Marxists can (with justification) scoff at my naiveté, but I detect a moral argument at the core of this and other maxims. And I find that not one bit an embarrassment. It is not a matter of soft thinking to fall back to moral explanations, especially given their undeniable presence and arguable contribution to human survival. What remains is not so much a need to reduce these arguments (moral ones) to atomic self-interest ones (which may or may not be accomplished at some point) but to provide a sound model for their existence and efficacy. D.S.Wilson and E.O.Wilson seem to be working on such an effort, extending the previous work of D.S.Wilson and Sober. In other words, co-operation may sound like a mushy word to hardened leftists, but that (IMHO) is only because the science is still underway to establish its synonymity with solidarity in the broadest sense (“I am a human-being, and so nothing human is alien to me”).

There is also a bit of techno-utopianism that underwrites the confidence of achieving for the worker what have thus far been the luxuries of the wealthy. This reflects on “individual choice” and its role. It is true that no lasting progressive change can have as its source (in entirety) individuals adjusting their style of living, but that does not imply (and cannot) that a robust framework, based on a clear understanding of co-operation or solidarity, will not demand that individuals act in a productive and sustainable manner.


[ Parent ]  
I'm having a little trouble tracking your argument (0.00 / 0)
but let me try to respond.  For those really on the bottom, we are not talking about “luxuries of the wealthy.”  We are talking about alleviating real suffering and want.  It would be nice if individuals were nice to each other.  But it’s the structural change that is the key.  We can talk about motivation, but the key is the ability to generate durable power to foster social change–whether it’s about self-interest, or caring for the common good.  

There are, I’m sure, examples of change that happened because individuals did things and others followed their model.  But in the end, when we are talking about shifts in resources, change comes about through the ability to demand change and assert coherent power through myriad avenues.  

Vast sections of the middle class have become convinced that we can find win-win solutions to these problems, and that they can foster change by remaining within their comfort zone.  Buying a Prius is what makes sense to us, it’s individual, it’s a moral statement, it’s supposedly educational for others, it’s a personal choice, and it makes us feel superior because we are doing something lesser beings won’t do (like those workers out driving pickup trucks).  

Let me be blunt.  Individuals in the society the way it is, without a core shared social commitment that culturally and materially enforces and rewards particular kinds of action simply will not act to “do the right thing” in sufficient numbers to make a significant difference.  Remember how successful all those 1970s demonstration projects about renewable energy were?  

The individual changes might inform the emergence of a collective movement, but without a collective movement, you won’t see change.

Look around you.  Almost every significant social change you can see resulted from a coherent collective movement.  The bars next to the toilet for people in wheelchairs, school lunches, smoking laws.  etc. etc.  

–Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]  
Let Me Clarify (0.00 / 0)
I was a bit rushed and a bit sloppy in what I wrote, I guess.

But I think my point here is fairly straightforward:  Solidarity is arguably the key value of labor, and solidarity is fundamentally cooperation squared.  Of course labor is confrontational in dealing with management. But that’s a material necessity.  It’s not confrontational just for the hell of it, because labor knows that ultimately they must work together–or else, in the alternative, own the means of production themselves, in which case there is no outside management to be confrontational with.

Ideological conservatives aren’t like that.  They are confrontational as a matter of “principle”, whether it is necessary (or even productive) or not.

Of course there are some labor organizers who are like that, too.  But I’m not talking individuial psychology here, I’m talking broadly-shared systemic attitudes and ways of actiong politically.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
It's simpler (4.00 / 2)
than Jane Smiley’s analysis makes out to be.

I appreciate her piece because it turned me onto Fischer’s work in the first place. But, in her haste to make the Borderers sound like the Root of All American Evil, she left out some critical points about them that, properly understood, make talking to them dead easy.

Fischer points out that the Borderers’ most important contribution to American democracy was the idea of “natural liberty” — the notion that all people are endowed with inalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The Bill of Rights is almost entirely a Borderer invention; and it was adopted with considerable pressure from the Borderer troops whom Washington admitted were the key to the Revolutionary victory.

(Personal note: One of my grandfathers was a South Carolina Borderer who died at the Battle of Cowpens, which was a turning point in the Revolutionary War. My whole family tree on both sides is full of couples where he was Quaker and she was Borderer, or vice versa — with a few German Pietists and Puritans thrown in for fun. Some lively marriages there indeed.)

Give me liberty or give me death. Live free or die. Borderer battle cries, both.

Which means that all you have to do to get them on your side is start speaking in that language of natural liberty. The GOP has mastered this — but has turned that energy toward getting them to send their sons and daughters to Iraq (a disproportionate number of white troops are from Borderer families), and gotten them thinking that the Muslim is their enemy.

But you get them on the subject of the Bush family’s abuses of the Bill of Rights, and they are right there with you. This stuff goes right to home with them, and pisses them off righteously. There are any number of country music singers who’ve been planting such memes the last couple years. Yeah, they’ll go fight the A-rabs — but they took down George III for violating their natural liberties, and they’ll be quite happy to do it again if asked.

The only caveat is: Don’t bring this stuff up unless you’re willing to lead them into battle on it, like, starting tomorrow at dawn. It’s really hard to overstate the contempt they have for leaders who are all talk and no action.


 
My Take On Smiley (0.00 / 0)
Is that she was saying there are obvious attractions to Borderer political figures, such as Jim Webb, which would mirror what you say, but that there are deeper problems that make alliance with the evolving Puritan culture a better fit.  She doesn’t think that such figures are reliable allies, and I tend to agree.

But you are making a different argument, it seems, and it’s one I have a lot of affinity for.  As I see it, the difference turns on talking about relating to individuals vs. leaders.  Individuals, it seems, can be rallied to different causes which their leaders might not commit to so reliably.  Of course, that goes both ways, and leaders like the Dems have had in Congress low these many years are anything but reliable.

BTW, as I pointed out in the Dkos debates (this is strictly from memory), I have an affinity for Appalachian culture that goes back to childhood, based first on music, then arts and crafts.  So I definitely have a complicated view.  It’s just that the means of bulding political alliances are particularly challenging, and the barriers need to be recognized and understood, in ways that many commentators at DKos were particularly oblivious to.

It’s somewhat odd, as Markos himself is a warrior ex-Republican, like Webb, and yet he’s quite reluctant to go to war over things like voter suppression.  What I find attractive about Borderers is precisely what you pointed to–the fierce willingness to fight on principle, regardless of chances of winning.

I’m not really into the glorious sacrifice side of that.  I like to see it channelled more strategically so that battles lost need not mean lives lost, and in fact mean hearts and minds won.  But that gets us back into the difficulties of political alliance topic, once again.

“You know what they say — those of us who fail history… doomed to repeat it in summer school.” — Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]  
But what counts as action? (4.00 / 1)
What I have read of Jim Webb’s Scots-Irish recounting(s) sound a bit too much of  knee-jerk [claims of] “just so” virtuosity. Your (Sara’s) comment on the other hand, give me a clearer understanding (and respect) of the group. Even here however, I detect an unwarranted sense of justification in the use of contempt (as in “contempt they have for leaders who are all talk and no action”), because it seems to imply a particular kind of action: “lead them into battle” — and a particular kind of battle at that.

I accept “natural rights” at best with doubt and great reservation, but am willing to engage with its proponents. At the same time, I subscribe to a belief system (if you will indulge the vanity) that makes it trivially impossible to accommodate such unsound arguments as the one that “the Muslim is [my] enemy”. It has taken a long time for me to abandon the unwarranted contempt that I have for what I have, in a prolonged fit of youthful certainty, considered all action and no thought.

I perceive the commonality of principle that could unite us with such a group (and any group but the blatantly parasitic kind among the right-wing). And I endorse the call for action, to take up arms (figuratively speaking — and this is important: see below) and enter the battle righteously and with full commitment. I am hesitant however to perform an act of appeasement to gain solidarity. I come from a background of militant pacifism — a revolt, of recent history, that overthrew the mightiest empire of its time (albeit in its decline) using mostly non-violent means. Do those warriors, and their righteousness, and by extension their methods and action, in need of dilution or compromise any more than that of other groups?

Let me not end this note leaving intact a very wrong picture of myself that I have painted! Unlike the Gandhian practitioners of Ahimsa, I am at most “all talk”. In the final part of his rant in the movie “A Few Good Men”, the character played by Jack Nicholson calls out the shallowness of his interrogator, by pointing out what he believes is the difference in the sense in which his people (as opposed to his opponent) use words like “honour”. He has a point. While I am critical of the readiness of certain groups to be duped into a war, I realise that at its core, there is some commitment at work there, that puts me to shame in that particular sense. And that is how I read your comment as a response to Paul. These (and various other groups) are people who have a keen sense of right and are willing to step up to fight for it. If we want them to fight with us, we need to enter that fight in full earnestness (unlike the stuff that the Democrats exhibit, or blog commentators like me indulge in — no insult to those of you whose full-time work is to further the cause via blogging). We need to stop watching the parking meter, and start making some leaders! 😉



[ Parent ]  
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