Chris Matthews And Jim Cramer--Brothers In Cluelessness

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 16:31



On Friday, Glenn Greenwald had a couple of signficant observations about the Jon Stewart/Jim Cramer interview that provide a very useful frame for some of my thoughts about the Chris Matthews/Ari Fleischer interview on Wednesday.

First off, Greenwald noted (in his diary title, no less), "There's nothing unique about Jim Cramer," first noting how Cramer had obediently served as a stenographer for the rich and powerful, only to be lied to repeatedly, then pointing out:

But there's absolutely nothing about Cramer that is unique when it comes to our press corps.  The behavior that Jon Stewart so expertly dissected last night is exactly what our press corps in general does -- and, when compelled to do so, they say so and are proud of it.

Second, Glenn pointed out that Cramer was actually better than most.  At least he felt some sense of responsibility--no little thing in contrast to most:

At least give credit to Cramer for facing his critics and addressing (and even acknowledging the validity of) the criticisms.  By stark contrast, most of our major media stars simply ignore all criticisms of their corrupt behavior and literally suppress it (even if the criticisms appear as major, lengthy front-page exposés in The New York Times).

Greenwald pointed at length to the record on the Iraq War, and here Matthews has his own shameful past to live down, which he tries to obscure by saying he opposed the war--notwithstanding his worshipful adulation of Codpiece's flight suit moment. Yet, here we are, 6 years down the road, and he still can't get his arms around what happened then, as he give Ari Fleischer the floor for one more round of Bush revisionism--this time it's for the ages!--all the while posing as the tough-guy interrogator, not quite realizing he's actually the patsy.

Paul Rosenberg :: Chris Matthews And Jim Cramer--Brothers In Cluelessness
I'll have more to say about Fleischer's economic lies later this weekend, so let's just focus on the Iraq War/terrorists lies.

MATTHEWS:  Well, let's talk about the change in parties which occurred last year in November.  You're as aware of politics as anybody around.  You speak about it.  You think about it.  You write about it.  It seems to me there were two reasons why Barack Obama was elected president.  First of all, he won the primaries because he was totally against the war in Iraq.  He won the general because the economy sucked.

Now, to put it bluntly, what's wrong about that?  Doesn't the war still stand as a mistake, as an unpopular war?  Doesn't the economy that you left the country when your party left the country in our hands terrible and worthy of a change of parties?  What's really changed since November?

(CROSSTALK)

FLEISCHER:  I don't think a lot has changed in terms of what you just described.  And I would agree with your overall political assessment.  It was in part because of Iraq and in large part because of the economy that Barack Obama won.

Having said that, I also think Barack Obama should say thank you every day that he inherited a world without Saddam Hussein in it.  Imagine how much worse the Middle East would be if Saddam and his sons were still in charge of that country and how much worse human rights would be in that region of the world.

So it's not as simple as just saying that one factor contributed to an election.  That's absolutely true in the politics of it.  But now that he's governing it's a lot more complicated, isn't it.  Take today...

That's quintessential Chris Matthews.  Genocide is bad if you lose the next election. If you don't, it's politically brilliant, and you're to be congratulated.  And, of course, it leaves the door absolutely wide open for the interviewee to walk in and start spinning any which way he wants, because there's always another election on down the road.   And so Fleischer goes back to the fundamental neo-con lie, and starts reguritating it as required:  we protected you, we made you safer, we're fighting evil and evil is everywhere, anyone who isn't with us is against us and wants you all to die.

Fleisher goes on to add 2 more fundamental claims: that Bush will be remembered for keeping us safe, because we weren't attacked after 9/11, and Bush was justified in attcking Iraq, because everyone else thought Saddam had WMDs, too.

The first claim here is fundamentally invalid.  It's an ad hoc argument: 9/11 happened, Bush woke up to the terrorist attack, we didn't get attacked again, so Bush is responsible for us not getting attacked again.

But, of course, this not just an invalid form of argument, it completely ignores the logic of the terrorist strategy, which is not necessarily to keep on doing the same sort of thing over and over again.  9/11 accomplished what it was supposed to accomplish.  Bush has done far more damage to America after 9/11 than bin Laden did to America on 9/11. Before 9/11 bin Laden was making all sorts of preposterous claims about the US.  Then he went and committed such a horrific atrocity that millions in the Muslim world refused to believe it.  He had utterly discredited himself... until Bush responded and turned him into a hero, giving him the status of "holy warrior" that he could never have achieved by himself.  This is what actually happened after 9/11, and it's not a hard case to make.

But you can't possibly make the case if basically all you do is the same thing as Jim Cramer--interview the powers that be, and reguritate all their lies.  To get the real story, you have to go to actual experts in terrorism, guerilla movements, and the like, experts in the history of Middle East politics and religion, and you have to engage in a critical sorting process, in a cross-interrogation of the various different claims that are being made.  Over 7 years after 9/11, Chris Matthews has done none of that--and neither has virtually any other M$M star.  They are all Jim Cramer, they are all powerless to intelligently confront the lies of power.  Yes, they can jab, and put on a good show.  Chris Matthews is a good entertainer.  But a journalist?  Not exactly.  At least not in the true meaning of that word.

Fleisher's second big lie is even easier to refute: ecerybody else thought Saddam had WMDs, so you can't pin the blame on Bush.  Refuting this lie on it's most basic level is child's play: First, everyone else didn't believe it, Bush himself didn't believe it, as he kept pushing for other people to cook evidence for him.  Second, many of those who did believe it were relying on Bush lying to them.  Third, regardless of what people believed before weapons inspectors went in, by the eve of the war, the vast majority of world opinion on WMDs had turned around, and even those who were still uncertain wanted inspections to continue, rather than supporting Bush's push for war.

But it's not the basic level we should be looking for here.  Six years after the war began--a war that's arguably one of the biggest strategic blunders in our history--we should have a comprehensive, multi-level understanding of what went wrong.  And that means understanding that depends on all the available evidence.  Such evidence includes the Downing Street Memos, which contain clear evidence that everything the Bush Administration said publicly was a ruse to get us into war.  If necessary, Bush was prepared to trick Saddam, one way or another, to create a pretext for war.  And for Matthews to not know this history--or to know it, but not raise it (which is arguably much worse) represents a level of journalistic malpractice at an even higher order.

Unlike Jim Cramer, Chris Matthews has yet to even begin the process of addressing his past mistakes.  And in that, Chris Matthews is even more typical than Cramer of official media today.  

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Don't even get me started on that (4.00 / 5)
sanctimonious hypocrite, that sexist pig, Chris Matthews.  He has blood on his hands and he can scream to high hell that he opposed the war, when the truth is this.  He voted for Bush (admitted it on his own show).  He basically campaigned for Bush all through 1999....trashing Al Gore, lying about him, mocking him and making fun of him, calling him the "Clinton's bathtub ring."   I understand there is not much love of the Clinton's here on this blog, but still Matthews personal vendetta against them that spilled over to Al Gore was immoral in my view.  And his sexist insults of Hillary started long before she ran for president.  

Matthews literally drooled over W when he saw dressed as a pilot.  He said he had "sunny nobility" and was thrilled with the war mongering jerk calling him a hero women loved.  

How any progressive anywhere was not angered at, insulted by Matthews years of pushing the right wing meme, how he gets off the hook because he says, after the fact, he was against the war, I don't get.  I guarantee you Matthews was counting on Guiliani or Thompson.  And to this day, the only reason in my mind, he began to drool over Barack Obama was because of his hatred of Hillary.
The minute it looks like anything President Obama does is going to not work, Matthews will go after him with a vengeance.

The entire MSNBC team with the exception of Rachel Maddow are obnoxiously sexist men who continue to push the ultimate goals of GE.  KO gives them ratings with his rhetoric but to me KO is a company man who lucked into a money making feud with O'Reilly.  But you will never hear either Rachel or KO take on their own network's sexism, unfair treatment of Kucinich, obnoxious game playing.

And they are supposed to be the "liberal" network.
Sad but true.


You Don't Have To Love Clinton To Detest What Was Done To Him (4.00 / 4)
Gene Lyons, the author of Fools For Scandal and co-author of The Hunting of the President has never professed any great love for Clinton.  But the best thing that can be said for Clinton is that he made the right enemies (starting off with old-line segregationists), and the way they acted was thoroughly despicable, regardless of anything else.

Matthews is just an id-driven hack, so far as I can tell.  I would not put KO in the same category. I do agree that folks tend to over-praise him sometimes, but there's a certain truth to the notion that sports journalism tends to be freer of ideological interference, and hence a better training ground for straight-shooting.  That's what I think KO does best.  Not deep insight, but a much better grounding in context than Matthews has, which, of curse, is not saying much.

Maddow is a good step or three beyond that.  I'm not sure what you expect of her at this point.  Even very well established journalists--10 or 20 years with a given organization--pick their battles with the boss very carefully.  There's a reason Amy Goodman is in a different league, and it's not just her talent and values, it's also her chosen environment.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I watch Rachel (0.00 / 0)
and used to watch KO.  He turned me off during the primaries. His jock mentality does not bother me. He still strikes me as a company man.   So we will have to agree to disagree.  Besides, anyone who can hang out with Laura Ingrahm kind of makes me wonder.......and he gives O'Reilly too much airtime.
Rachel is OK.  
I have issues with some of her sarcastic gotcha's re: Hillary.  Look...Hillary was not perfect.  I did not agree with her on some things.  But for me, the domestic issues, education and health care were most critical.  Hillary was much closer to me, much more to the left for me than Obama was on those issues.  And clearly on education, he remains much more to the right....and I am not pleased.  That said, from the beginning I had no need to mock, hate or insult personally Barack, John Edwards, or any other dem. I can disagree without personal insults.  I felt Rachel crossed the line with her personal disdain for Hillary.  I did not get it then. I do not get it now.  Hillary was the closest thing any woman my age ever had to representing us in THE leadership position.  I thought that deserved acknowledgment and respect, not "go along with the bosses in dissing her"... But then a lot of liberals simply do not get what that meant to many of us who are Hillary's age, who have worked for the democratic party all our lives, did the "boots on the ground" work for years while the men got all the leadership positions.  Hillary, even with her imperfections, represented a lifetime for many of us....and to have a liberal woman mock that hurt....a lot.

Rachel simply disappointed me in that as a woman.  However, I have chosen to continue to support her on MSNBC because I think she is a strong liberal voice overall and because she hopefully can be a strong feminist voice.


[ Parent ]
"There's a reason Amy Goodman is in a different league, and it's not just her talent and values, it's also her chosen environment. (4.00 / 2)


[ Parent ]
I meant to add, (0.00 / 0)
PRECISELY. Maddow reflects her environment and does a certain degree of news as entertainment because it is what is required of her. I do resent the  Fox-News-but-liberal strategy of MSNBC, but it's hard for me to believe this is of Maddow's making.

[ Parent ]
its not surprising (0.00 / 0)
that matthews would be revising history, after all he is a bushy through and through no matter how many times he protests the facts. when you say we don't think that way in america anymore chrisy, we never did, you and your kind did and you have to live with that, but since you obviously have no conscience or moral compass i doubt you will lose any sleep over it.
if you want to label chris matthews try pat buchanan lite on for size.

No Such Thing As Bad Publicity (0.00 / 0)
I'm a book dealer, I sell used books, most fairly recent.  I've had a few Jim Cremer titles gathering dust for months.  They have all sold within the last 48 hours.

True But... (4.00 / 1)
What's Cramer get from the sale of used books.

Good publicity?  Perhaps.  But, like his own advice, good for nothing. For him.

You old free rider, you!

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Books (0.00 / 0)
I'm sure book royalties are not his main income source but if I'm selling his books, you can bet that bookstores & websites are selling the new ones too.  

Likewise, the W. Post reported recently that Limbaugh's ratings are way, way up -- at least according to someone who spends time following such things named Michael Harroson.


[ Parent ]
Cramer (0.00 / 0)
That comment had me laughing out loud.

[ Parent ]
matthews handled fleischer with kid gloves (4.00 / 1)
1. on fleischer's "Obama should say thank you every day that he inherited a world without Saddam Hussein in it" matthews could point that obama inherited a world with so many problems: afghanistan, pakistan, iraq, israel-palestine, north korea, mexico, global economic crisis etc. etc. etc.

2. on the recession obama inherited, fleischer said 'we inherited one too' and matthews let him go away

no comparison of the size of the 2 recessions, no mention of the surplus they inherited and turned it into a huge deficit, no mention of who was in power the last 8 years, no mention of the fact the republicans magically became 'fiscal conservatives' on january 20

matthews' show should be renamed to 'softball'


Watching the Interview... (0.00 / 0)
I disagreed with this comment, and the post, that Matthews did anything wrong. In fact, I think he pretty much nailed Fleisher and was pretty good about hitting hit with his falsehoods. I can't imagine anyone but the most loyal bushie coming away from that exchange thinking that Fleisher did any good.

I'm not generally happy with Matthews (although I think he has been better since the primary), and I agree with Jon Stewart's criticism below, but I don't think there was anything wrong with this interview (and it was better then most).


[ Parent ]
stewart took down matthews too last year (0.00 / 0)
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