my head exploded, again (4.00 / 1)

if this keeps happening, it'll leave a mark

I think I'll send Hunter's letter posted at dailykos, to my Senators, Carl "laydown" Levin, and Debbie Stab-meintheback-enow

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by: gaspare @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 10:01:41 AM CST

Not another impotent call for primary challenge.... (0.00 / 0)

especially against Reid. While Reid appears to be working against us on this and we should oppose it through friends in the Senate, there seems to be a knee-jerk call for primary challenges every time somebody does something we don't like.

I'm all for primary challenges when there is a good reason or chance to succeed, but it makes us look foolish and naive, not to mention more paper tiger activity that damages our effective credibility. Unless you are prepared and capable of following through with challenging a sitting leader of the Senate with a primary challenge, don't make the call.

Show me the last time Dems unseated a sitting leader with a PRIMARY challenge?

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by: IndySteve @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 10:27:45 AM CST

Primary threats can have value in their own right (4.00 / 1)

Take an example like Jane Harman.  When she received a primary challenge last cycle, it brought her to the left in order to win the challenge, thus accomplishing what we set out to do: have a more progressive representative.  The downside is that Harman has now basically reverted (e.g. http://www.calitics....).  But even so, an unsuccessful primary challenge still gets the candidate's attention like few other things can.  So maybe think of it as the A bomb to letter writing's TNT--neither one is going to completely destroy the enemy, but supposedly one of them will be powerful enough to grab a lot more attention.

Very Truly Yours, Will Bunnett

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by: I Voted for Kodos @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 10:51:50 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Harmon moved to the left? Only enough (0.00 / 0)

to try to fool a few to keep them on board. I supported Winograd in her challenge because it was possible and Harmon deserved to be brought down. She got something like 38% of the vote which is quite good. As far as making them move on issues, I happen to think that is less likely. As you say, Harmon has reverted.

And if the primary challenge isn't successful, it tends to reaffirm their DINO views. But threatening to primary a sitting Dem leader is pure paper tiger talk. Now, maybe we ought to mount an effort to unseat him as leader IF there was a possibility of getting someone stronger, but who would that be in this Senate?

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by: IndySteve @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 11:14:53 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Getting ignored (0.00 / 0)

One of the problems I see with the current operations of the Democratic caucus in both houses of Congress is that the progressive contribution is taken for granted.  Progressives have nowhere more left than the Democratic party to go, whereas as so-called centrists always have the bargaining chip of a possible bolt for the Republican party.  So progressives are told to sit down and shut up because the party needs to be appeasing the centrists and the supposed moderate voters in their districts.

People like Harmon and Lieberman who faced strong primary challenges and then ostensibly moved left were clearly disingenuous about it.  But I don't think that means their DINO views were reaffirmed, especially since Lieberman is no longer a D in name.

Perhaps most importantly, primary challenges, no matter how hopeless, are at least going to send the message that progressives are not just going to fall in line because they have no other party they can switch to.  A primary against Reid would still cost him money in (a) direct campaign expenditures and (b) his ability to raise a bunch of money that he can disperse to his Senate colleagues as a way of raising his own influence...we all know money talks in Washington, and it's not like his colleagues elected him just because he had good ideas.

Very Truly Yours, Will Bunnett

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by: I Voted for Kodos @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 11:40:09 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Primary is probably easier (0.00 / 0)

Removing Reid through the NDP is not going to be easy - he essentially controls it. But the state Democratic Party could potentially be taken over. Whereas removing him through the actions of senators is much harder - they're less irritated with Reid than most activists are and there's no countervailing power we can exploit.

I just don't see how you convince a majority of Dem senators to put their careers and pet projects on the line, especially when many of them are less progressive than the base. Taking out Reid would be a difficult task in the primary, but it's at least possible, especially since Las Vegas' growth means there will be many Democratic primary voters who've only voted for Reid once or indeed never.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

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by: Englishlefty @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:22:34 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Targeting Reid (0.00 / 0)

Perhaps we can't target Reid right now, but I have another suggestion. Maybe we can't target Reid, but perhaps we can target his friends, supporters, or his key allies. I don't know off the top of my head who that would be, but it's an option to consider. If you can't get to the man, go after his interests.

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by: astrodem @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 10:36:42 AM CST

Third party? (0.00 / 0)

What do you do when neither party represents you?

It's hard to say who Reid thinks he's representing by doing things like this.  It's obviously not the people of Nevada, who he ostensibly represents as Senator, and who are constantly suffering damages from invasions of their privacy and right to due process.  I wouldn't even say it's his constituents in the Senate, who he represents as majority leader, and who are being damaged by having their holds ignored and policies enacted that damage their own states' constituents.  So is he representing the administration?  Maybe he's representing some amorphous conception of beltway corruption and bonhomie?

It would be far too reductionist to argue that there is no difference between Reid and, say, McConnell.  Yet it is clear that both parties are largely committed to the same constituent: elitist corruption.

From a progressive activist perspective, I would say that this is as clear a sign as any we need to be working to elect better Democrats, and we oughtn't to waste our time working simply to elect more Democrats until we're done electing better ones.  After all, if we can make the party better, making it larger will be that much easier.

Very Truly Yours, Will Bunnett

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by: I Voted for Kodos @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 10:40:58 AM CST

Reid, like everybody ELSE in Congress, GOP or Dem, represents CorpoRat money (0.00 / 0)

nothing and no one else.
his loyalties are to the status quo ante, and to preserving his power and perqs in the Senate.
I cite again the "Iron-Clad Law Of Institutions" (Jon Schwarz edition, paraphrased): People holding power in institutions are always willing to sacrifice some power of the institution as long as they do not suffer the diminution of their power inside the institution.

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by: konopelli @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 11:27:16 AM CST

[ Parent ]

C&P, The Iron Law Of Institutions (by J. Schwarz (0.00 / 0)

"The people who control Institutions care first and foremost about their Power within the Institution rather than the Power of the Institution itself. Thus, they would rather the Institution "fail" while they retain Power within the Institution than for the Institution to "succeed" if 'succeeding" meant they might lose Power within the Institution."

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by: konopelli @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 11:49:27 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Motion to censure (0.00 / 0)

Is a motion to censure privileged? Because that could be one way of putting a shot across his bows. That said, since holds are more of a gentleman's agreement than a rule, I'm not sure if there would be grounds for it.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

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by: Englishlefty @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 11:14:21 AM CST

I'm so sick (0.00 / 0)

of this constant capitulation...and it makes no sense..?
Why are Reid/Pelosi caving on everything?

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by: Metrix @ Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 14:34:38 PM CST