A Third Party Threat To Obama In 2012?

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 14:14



One potential 2012 scenario I have been considering for the past week is that his biggest threat to re-election in 2012 might come from a third-party, rather than from Republicans. This threat would be in the mold of a more populist and likeable Michael Bloomberg, or a more informed and less insane Ross Perot, rather than a minor party such as the Greens or Libertarians rising from obscurity. He would be male, white, extremely wealthy, have no real downticket support, center-right (possibly hard right-wing on economics), and fueled by corporate, big media, bi-partisan elitist, punditry disgust with Barack Obama. I term this the "billionaire king" scenario, and in the extended entry I describe how it could play out.
Chris Bowers :: A Third Party Threat To Obama In 2012?
Here is how the "billionaire king" third-party challenge to Obama works:
  1. Could have been a lot worse for Republicans: The Republican Party is extremely unpopular right now, and not in a position to reclaim the Presidency even if Obama himself becomes unpopular. McCain, as the most popular Republican in the nation for almost a decade, severely limited the damage to what otherwise would have been a double-digit thumping. Obama's race probably also kept his margin down by 2-3%. Democrats could have won this election by at least 11%, and possibly by 14%. Further, demographics continue to shift toward Democrats, as the non-white and / or non-Christian demographic shift that fueled Obama's ridiculous margins among under 30 voters and, to a somewhat lesser extent, among all under 45 voters, will increase their share of the electorate. Finally, the country won't forget the disasters of Republican governance in just four years, and just will not see them as a viable alternative in four years time even if Obama should stumble. Without McCain, with a less favorable demographic outlet, with the memory of the Bush years, and with utterly massive deficits in both chambers of Congress, Republican chances of returning to power by 2012 seem extremely limited to me.

  2. Republicans will shift to the right: Further damaging Republican chances of reclaiming political control over the next four years (I think a six to fourteen year comeback is possible for Republicans, but not four), is that they will continue to shift to the right. All of the power structures pushing them to the right remain intact. Conservative media is intact, if downgraded in value. The Club for Growth isn't going anywhere in primaries. Still intact theocon groups are arguing. that the reason Republicans lost is because they didn't move to the right. Republican "moderates" in Congress have been harvested to the point of extinction in primaries and general elections alike. No people or institutions remain to push them to the left. It is all right-wing all the time here on out for Republicans, even more so than the current manifestation of the party.

  3. Theocons could win bama complete control of the Republican Party: The coming fight in the Republican Party is going to center on Sarah Palin. McCain staffers are eager to blame the loss on Palin, and most of the punditry will probably go along with this. However, there are two flaws in this argument. First, it doesn't make any sense, because McCain picked Palin, and thus whatever damage she did to McCain's campaign is actually his own fault. Second, there are more theocons in the Republican Party than there are neocons or corporate cons. Huckabee's extremely underfunded campaign belied their numbers, as he only shot to national attention in December, which is too late to make a final charge. In the meantime, McCain kept eeking out narrow victories in numerous states primarily on the strength of media love, short-term internal Republican disgust with Bush, and an electability argument. In four years time, no Republicans will believe that a "moderate" like McCain is more electable, and smaller numbers of them will look back on Bush with the same disgust they currently hold. While polls currently show Romney as the favorite for the 2012 Republican nomination, that is only because those same polls show Huckabee and Palin splitting the theocon vote. If someone can consolidate the theocon vote in the 2012 Republican primaries, all of the factors listed here could very well propel that candidate to the nomination.

  4. The corporate cons hate the theocons: The corporate and media elite despised both Mike Huckabee and Sarah Palin. They didn't contribute to Huckabee's chronically underfunded campaign, and never took him seriously even after he won a huge victory in Iowa. In a very similar vein, hundreds of newspapers and pundits and elites like Colin Powell said that they turned on John McCain because he chose Sarah Palin. In perhaps the largest demographic shift of all-time, Obama even won the $200K+ vote for crying out loud, and I am sure that Sarah Palin had as much to do with that as the stock market crash. If she, Huckabee or some other "hillbilly" theocon, as they are now dismissively labeled, were to win the Republican nomination in 2012, none of the corporate or media elites would support them. And with the problems the Republican Party is facing, they would indeed be entirely unelectable.

  5. The Village could turn on Obama: A lot of factors contributed to Obama's victory, but one of the undertold stories is how he was, in fact, supported by media and money elites. For the first time in decades, the Democratic nominee received vastly more favorable media coverage than the Republican nominee, which is particularly surprising given that McCain was the Republican nominee. Also, despite his vast small donor and grassroots army, Obama also received more big money support, both in terms of donations and in terms of votes, than did McCain. Bush and Republicans had so severely threatened what the elites in America value--for one thing, the stock market--that these elites actually turned to Democrats in this election.

    However, unless he tows the center-right line they are demanding, the Village could turn on Obama just as easily as it moved in favor of him. This is the point where a third-party "billionaire king" challenge to Obama could manifest itself. If the Democratic trifecta does in fact govern in a progressive manner, expect a severe elitist backlash that will make Village hatred of the Clintons seem like a quaint, familial hazing. This could open the door for a mildly populist billionaire king, who could be championed by media and money elites, be supported by a wave of conservative Democrats who were never really culturally comfortable with Obama, round-up the disaffected "moderate" corporate Republicans who would feel homeless, and combine it all with a dash of populist American exceptionalism that could pull in Libertarians and Perotistas.

Would this coalition be enough to function as a real threat? It combines Bloomberg supporters, LieberDems, Rockerfeller Republicans, and Peroistas with Village backing and enough money to outspend even Obama. A three-way campaign involved a Republican theocon nominee, the billionaire king, and Obama could send the electoral map into chaos. While I wouldn't bet on the billionaire king in such a scenario, I also wouldn't count him out.

So, there is my scenario. Am I just crazy?

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I don't know if you're crazy, (4.00 / 3)
but geez, can't we have three days of excitement about having won this election! :-)

Thank You (0.00 / 0)
The guy doesn't take office for more than 70 days and we are already talking about third party challengers.  It is all going to depend on how successful he is at governing.  If he does a good job, the economy improves, etc, Obama will win re-election and probably handily.  It won't matter how much a Mike Bloomberg or someone else spends.

Obama is facing a lot of challenges but can we give him a chance to do the job.  I, for one, think he is up to the job and then some.


[ Parent ]
Meh (4.00 / 4)
I think it would hurt Republicans more. Yeah, somebody like that could peel off a small number of Democrats, but it would really pull apart the shattered Republican coalition much more easily. Most Obama supporters are pretty enthusiastic about him, and unless his first term is Carter-like, I don't expect that to change.

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!

Don't be so sure (0.00 / 0)
Outside of Alaska and the Mountain West, pretty much all of the states that are most likely to support 3rd parties are blue states. New England, the Pacfiic Northwest, and the Upper Midwest are prime examples. The south is the least third-party friendly area of the country over the last 30 years.

No guarantee it would hurt them more. Granted, African-Amerians aren't going to abandon Obama, but some of his other young voters might. Young votes are also the most likely to support third party candidates.

John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion


[ Parent ]
I'm still skeptical (0.00 / 0)
Democrats are more engaged, excited and unified than ever, whereas Republicans are demoralized, defeated and fractured. They're plainly the easier prey.

Yes, young voters have historically supported third party candidates at higher rates, but that's only because they're looking for something different. No candidate has previously had the explicit appeal among young people the way Obama does. The kids are nuts for Obama and aren't going to abandon him that easily in favor of some old white fatcat. That's exactly the sort of candidate they don't care for, driving them to support third parties in the past. Obviously, it's important for Obama and Democrats to keep young voters engaged as Democrats, but I think that's already the gameplan.

In terms of geographic effect, it matters exactly who in those regions is drawn to third party efforts more than where. If it's Republican leaning voters in those blue states, it wouldn't hurt at all. And Democrats can afford to shed some voters in blue states. They can't afford to in the more marginal states (your Ohios, your Floridas, your Virginias, etc.)

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!


[ Parent ]
That's not the way to look at it... (0.00 / 0)
A 3rd party presidential run of the type envisioned here doesn't submit to a state-by-state analysis of state-level 3rd parties.

It is more like what happened with Perot in 1992. THis is a top-down presidential bid that is independent of any kind of pre-existing affinity for 3rd parities in a particular state.

Under this Billionaire king scenario, you don't cut into the Obama coalition, but you give a place for displaced GOPers to end up. You would get another Clinton scenario where Obama wins a plurality. If BHO makes smart economic investments, then I could see him getting near 50% of the vote with the GOP coalition splitting their votes between the BK and whatever paleo-con the GOP sends up.

In any event there is no way that the BK gets above 20% of the vote and probably not above 18%. The structural barriers in the electoral machinery are too high to allow for anything else except in a few states.

If it does happen, then an Obama re-election is guaranteed.


[ Parent ]
yeah (4.00 / 1)
I think Obama's floor is around the 40-45% of people who were very enthusiastic about his candidacy, and anything that splits the other 55-60% of the country just makes it easier for him to win re-election.

[ Parent ]
That Coalition Would Doom the Republicans (4.00 / 1)
Obama is unlikely to lose his youth/minority/cosmopolitan base. The 3rd party candidacy you describe is a coalition of center-right Republicans and swing voters a la a lot like the Perot vote. The good news is that the Democratic base is much larger than it was in 1992. So this is NOT something I would sweat about much.  

The one upshot... (0.00 / 0)
Is that something like this would probably spell the end of the Republican party as we know it... The current Republican party would be spun off into the "Theocon" party, and whatever this new party was would be the new opposition party.

And to be honest, this would probably at least be better for the country than what the current Republican opposition party represents, as, at the very least, I think it would reduce the amount of "magical thinking" that is involved in government.

And no, obviously I wouldn't support such a party, just saying that I'd rather see that as the opposition party than what the current Republican party represents.  I think it'd be better for the country.


Well, that didn't take long. (0.00 / 0)
But to participate in the speculation: Of course, it all depends upon what Obama does in the first two years of the new administration. I'm inclined to think that, though it would be damaging to an Obama second term, an independent personality-based run for the presidency would guarantee that second term. The fracturing of the Republicans would trump the loss of some Dems and independents to the third man. Unless the first term is a mess, and I doubt that will be the case.

2012 could be a big year for a 3rd party candidate, but... (0.00 / 0)
I could see someone doing better than Perot's 19% in 1992 should Obama flame out, but where do they get their electoral votes to win?  

The theocon candidate will take all the deep South and Appalachia likely retaking NC, VA, IN and FL.  Obama would keep New England, the West Coast, and at least Illinois.  If he is such a disaster that those states are at risk, the party would surely primary him to avoid a certain loss.  While a 'billionaire king' might be attractive to libertarians in the West, character and identity will matter and I am not sure what current 'billionaire king wanna be' would have the charisma to entice them.  I don't see Colorado or New Mexico voting for Bloomberg over a theocon.  And do states like Wyoming, Utah, and Idaho really drop the GOP for a 3rd party candidate?

I just can't envision a electoral map that would bring a 'billionaire king' to power.


"Obama's race probably also kept his margin down by 2-3%" (4.00 / 1)
Are you sure about that?  I doubt that any other Dem could have increased AA turnout by 2% of the overall vote AND increased AA support for the Dem candidate from 89-90% to over 95%.  This double improvement among AAs accounted for about 2% of Obama's overall support, and, by itself, would cancel out any effect wherein up to 2% of the electorate did not vote for Obama because of his race.

Also, would under 30 voters have given any other Dem a blowout 35% margin in their age group?  Obama's appeal to them would probably have been very difficult for any other nominee to replicate as well.    


Obama went down among whites from 2006 (4.00 / 1)
Obama only lost 1% from the 2006 Democratic percentage, but lost 8% among whites. So yeah, it did keep his totals down.

John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion

[ Parent ]
Granted (4.00 / 1)
To argue out loud with myself, it also pushed his totals up by a raw margin of 3.5% among African-Americans. So, while he lost 5-6% among whites, he gained votes he otherwise would not have done among African-Americans. Still, the net results was probably a 1-3% drop.

John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion

[ Parent ]
Apples to oranges (4.00 / 1)
Comparing presidential elections to mid-terms is a bit dubious, IMO. The set of voters that turn out is too different. It would be better to compare vs. 2004 (or specifically, his improvement among white voters vs. his improvement among the electorate at large).

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!

[ Parent ]
Agreed - I'm guessing Obama's race brought his margin down by 2% among whites only (0.00 / 0)
And I assume AA turnout more than made up for that loss.

There were these bits on MSNBC TV about the NC exit poll

35% of whites overall voted for Obama per http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25...
30% of whites said race affected their decision - per Chuck Todd on election night.

Among that "race-affected" group, 30% still voted for Obama.

In other words, among race-affected whites, Obama lost 5% total. But that would be less than 2% of the total white vote.

(This may be invalid - as I'm comparing apples and oranges - but I can't find straight exit poll data confirming what Chuck Todd said on election night.)


[ Parent ]
Your numbers are only for North Carolina (0.00 / 0)
You need to check the national exit numbers.  

[ Parent ]
Wish I could find them, as they relate to this measure (0.00 / 0)
But I think they'll vary by state too.

[ Parent ]
Depends on if it's really a 3rd party (0.00 / 0)
or just an independent run. The right kind of third party candidate could actually end up becoming the second party, killing off the Republicans. (This sounds far-fetched I know, but political parties can and do come to an end.) Which wouldn't be the end of the world - depending what kind of third party it is.

If it's just an independent like Bloomberg or somebody, I think the likelihood of them impacting the race is much less. I just don't see how an indie candidate, even with a boatload of money, can compensate for not having the party infrastructure to support him. It would have to be a really compelling candidate that could almost hatch an instant movement.


Election laws at the state level (0.00 / 0)
preclude either of the two major parties from ending up as a minor party or dying all together. In most states they are guaranteed ballot lines, unlike minor parities, so it's exceedingly difficult to kill them off. You'd need something like a Civil War to make it happen.

[ Parent ]
the bloomberg party represents (0.00 / 0)
1)neocon foriegn policy

2)deregulation

Why does this hurt the democrats more than republicans?


bring it on!!!!! (4.00 / 1)
Chris - you're not crazy.  A third party challenge is a real possibility if the Republicans move to the Right.  However, this is something that we should welcome and NOT worry about.  Barack Obama's base among Blacks, Hispanics, secular educated Whites, and young Whites would be enough to carry him to victory against a theocon and a billionare third party challenge.  In fact, such a challenge would break the Republican Party, and NOT the Demcratic Party, especially if such a candidate were to start his own national third party, based off of the remnants of the infrastructure and spirit of Ross Perot.  The Democrats would be the only national party, with the Republicans being elimated in locations where they are no longer competitive.  A couple of regions would have three viable parties, and in most places this would help us, although some elections would become unpredictable (like the current MN Senate race).

One other wild card: (0.00 / 0)
I think the biggest unknown here is going to be Obama's performance, especially in the economy.  If he can stabilize the markets and get everyone making money again, I don't think there will be any great elite movement away from him.

It seems like most of the uber-elite are fairly non-ideological, at least socially, and really couldn't care less as long as they're making money.  If a bit of regulation works and a slightly higher rate of taxation to keep the plebes happy and in health care gets us out of the recession and grows more wealth overall, Obama will be in good shape.

In that kind of scenario, I can see a third-party run from the center-right crippling the current crop of Republicans by denying them any chance of running as anything but religious nuts.  The corporate types will either be conservative Dems or  Bloomberg supporters and will be laughing at Palin supporters from their Soho lofts.

But if he raises taxes and the economy doesn't recover noticeably within the first four years, the elites will be howling for blood and they pull a significant amount of support from conservative Dems and moderate (former) Republicans.


your final scenario isn't too implausible, as we are heading into (0.00 / 0)
a recession, and have not yet begun to fully feel its effects.  THAT is the scenario that Chris is assuming.  in a way, the point here is that there are (economic) forces beyond anyone's control that could make 2012 a difficult year for Obama, especially if the elite have a viable alternative to rally around.  

[ Parent ]
Clinton wouldn't have won without Perot (0.00 / 0)
Perot's candidacy was an essential part of Clinton's victory. He focused on the budget deficit and the economy, taking away a bunch of Republican voters from Bush.  If Bloomberg/Perot/whoever ran in 2012, it would damage the Republicans more than Obama, who would almost certainly get a plurality at least (assuming he doesn't monumentally screw up). This kind of scenario might also arise in the opposite way, with the social conservatives refusing to accept a Republican nominee who was a moderate or an economic conservative, somewhat akin to George Wallace's party (American Independent Party) in 1968, who split from the Democrats due to opposition to civil rights.  

Actually... (0.00 / 0)
Exit polls suggest Perot voters were pretty equally divided between Clinton and Bush I.  If anything it may have helped Clinton win a few more electoral votes, but I don't think the electoral college was in any doubt due to the Perot effect.

[ Parent ]
For the Berlusconi Option to work... (0.00 / 0)
...it would require an alternative to the Theocons as "boots on the ground."  The Dino Rossi campaign attempted this in this year's Washington state gubernatorial election, literally buying a ground operation, and it didn't help.  (This was in conjunction with one of the most expensive TV campaigns in the state's history.)

Money and an MSM out for Obama's head would help, and Obama being too tentative in terms of how he reacts to the problems he must face would be no better.  But without the face-to-face contact from believers as opposed to supporters, this doesn't fly.


The Billionaire King or the Progressive Magnate? (0.00 / 0)
Doesn't your scenario assume that Obama abandons his centrist consensus building and post partisan politics pledge?  As a president, he probably will ensure that all elements of the national scene (incl. the Democratic majorities) are kept under his grasp of power as long as possible.  So if he doesn't abandon the center altogether, a billionaire king may find his natural fishing ground a bit crowded.

Bt what if a progressive tech billionaire decides to harvest the fertile ground of the young voters and latinos with a renewed message of change, mainstream progressive consensus (environment) and some populist economic battle cry?  If the exercise of power disappoints the grassroots progressive and falls back in a new version of the Washington game, why wouldn't a challenge from the left (seeded with personal wealth) be as dangerous?

JML


if your theory is even slightly credible, then it explains why Obama would be very cautious (0.00 / 0)
and govern in a center-right way:

- civil unions, not full marriage equality
- affordable health care, not single payer
- free trade
- welfare reform

Which would be an improvement on the radical right wing administration of Bush. And if he does a lot to reform the political process, he could pave the way for progressives downticket, and a progressive president in 2016.


The Bloomberg scenario (0.00 / 0)
would be trouble for an Edwards Presidency, but Obama has pretty much locked in young professionals and non-white voters making it impossible for any two candidates with significant levels of support.

It depends on what happens to the economy (0.00 / 0)
The Democrats have been given a chance to show what they can do with the economy in freefall.

FDR is a historic example of a party rising to the occasion.

If the Dems are too corrupt or ossified or timid to deliver, I don't see people swinging back to the Republicans, who they will see as the original cause of the disaster.

But I do see white hot fury among the electorate, looking for some way, any way, to express it.

In that scenario, anything could happen.  Anything.  Including the implosion and collapse of the two main parties.  

But I don't think I'd like what would probably replace them.


Come on! Chris just be happy for a week or two. (0.00 / 0)
In politics 4 years is a lifetime.
This is kinda nutty.  

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  

Chris, you're paranoid (0.00 / 0)
But that doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.  But keep in mind that the scenario is four years away, and that most likely, if such a 3rd party candidate shows up, he's going to attack from the right. So even if there is a 3rd Party candidate, he's going to be a Republican-type standard bearer.

The other thing you have to realize is that the undecideds broke towards McCain, not Obama, due to fears about experience, race, religion, redistributionist, etc.  In the next election, you're not going to see that happen.  After four years, everyone is going to figure out that Obama is Christian and that he's not scary.  The undecideds will break towards him like they did for Bush in 2004.

Lastly, it doesn't matter who runs against Obama in 2012 if he does a good job.  


A good post, but (0.00 / 0)
About - oh - 8 months premature?


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