A Nightmare Interview with Russ Feingold

by: Matt Stoller

Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 15:26



Update: A lot of people in the comments seem to think that Feingold went 'off message', and are arguing about whether that's reasonable or not.  My problem with Feingold is that he's not just off-message, he's totally wrong and evidencing a serious error in judgment.  McCain is a crazily mean lying scumbag.  If you think he's an honest maverick who is young at heart, is fully dedicated to reform, and has the judgment to be a good President, you're a sucker.


Via Greg Sargent, I think I've just read the single worst most inept set of statements by any elected Democratic official, ever, courtesy of Russ Feingold.  If I didn't know better, I'd say that Russ Feingold is acting as a surrogate for the McCain campaign.  There are so many horrible sickening quotes praising McCain for his maverick independent and honest persona that I've grouped them under themes.

McCain's an independent and a maverick.

Example one:

"I think the guy calls 'em as he sees 'em, and as president would call 'em as he sees 'em, and would make people mad all over the place because it wouldn't fit anybody's playbook," said Feingold, who teamed up with McCain to rewrite federal campaign laws.

Example two:

Feingold calls McCain "very original" and a "maverick by nature." McCain's own TV ads call him the "original maverick."
Matt Stoller :: A Nightmare Interview with Russ Feingold
Example three:

"He is not a guy who wants to be chummy-chummy with political leaders of the party. He doesn't like that sort of constraint. He's an independent," said Feingold. "So he somehow managed to become the nominee of the Republican Party. But we all know it's not because he was somebody that was kissing up to the Republican establishment, to say the least."

"But the notion that somehow (McCain) is going to get in there and be some kind of ideological Newt Gingrich right-winger is a joke. There's no way that he would do that," Feingold said.

McCain has the judgment and prudence to be President.

Example one:

"Yes, he shows temper. But he burns fast, and he doesn't let it cloud his judgment. He would not be a loose cannon in the Oval Office," said Feingold. "It's not like he's going to pick up the red phone in a rage."

Example two:

"I'd rather have Obama for many, many reasons," Feingold said, citing his deep differences with McCain over foreign policy, health care and civil liberties, and his belief that Obama could be an inspirational president.

"They both have the intellectual ability and the maturity to form judgments about important policy issues. I'd feel comfortable with both of them in there as president," Feingold said. "They are not people who are just preening for the cameras. They're both celebrities. (But) they're the rare breed: celebrities who are actually interested in getting things done."

McCain is a fearless reformer.  

Example one:

"He's a very good legislator from my point of view, because when he gets onto something, he doesn't just want to introduce a bill, he likes to move it. And he's fearless," Feingold said of McCain, who once called the Wisconsin Democrat a "philosophical soul mate" on reform issues. (The two partnered on several other bills in addition to campaign finance.)

Example two:

"People couldn't believe how long we stayed on McCain-Feingold. . . . We'd come to those press conferences (year after year) and you guys would laugh at us, I mean, literally," said Feingold, grinning.

Example three:

"He's a great guy to fight an uphill battle with legislatively. He keeps his word. . . . I probably shouldn't be saying this stuff, but to be honest about it, it was one of the better professional experiences I've ever had in my life," Feingold said.

McCain is young.

"It's unfair, because McCain's a blast. He's fun to be around. He's certainly young in spirit. He's actually very young in energy," said Feingold.

There are literally no competent progressive elites.  If you asked average Democrats who they believe are good leaders, they might mention Al Gore, Russ Feingold, or Barbara Boxer.  These are the best we have.

We're supposed to be a political movement, but how can this movement continue to exist without any elected leadership that gets our mix of partisanship and populism, and couples it with a bullshit detector against insiders like McCain?  Where's our Jesse Helms or Paul Laxalt or Ronald Reagan?  These were uncompromising political figures constantly preached the virtues of their ideas and built up farm teams of staffers and politicians.  We have no one.

The good news is that, since Democratic leaders are so awful, improving the situation shouldn't be that hard.  It's not like we have to get rid of the Chamber of Commerce to win, all we have to do is getting better Democrats in there and fix the existing progressive infrastructure that mostly sucks.

Tags: , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Maybe he wants McCain to win (4.00 / 4)
As an African American - I'm starting to get all sorts of pushback on the subject of a black president.  The depth of hostility toward me has increased noticeably - and quite often it's from people who are saying outright that Obama is going to ruin the country.  Why be hostile to me about it if it isn't about the one thing Obama and I are known to share (race)?

QT

Visit the Obama Project

Searching for John McCain?



I know what you mean (4.00 / 4)
I don't think this is the situation with Feingold.  I think this is his passive-aggressive way of getting back at Obama for flip-flopping on FISA.

This election season HAS showed me alot about racism.  Before now, when I would talk about modern day racism with some of my black friends they would give me looks like "You just don't know, man.", and now I see what they mean.

I have been appalled at how many people in my area who are seemingly rational cling to any stupid reason not to vote for Obama. "They don't know enough about him" (how is that his fault?)  They heard he was a muslim (even though this has been debunked literally everywhere).  At the end of the day I have to conclude that they just don't want to vote for him because he's black, but they are ashamed to say that.

It makes me embarrassed for them.

John McCain.  Wrong for America.


[ Parent ]
Does he think McCain will reform FISA? (4.00 / 2)
McCain is the enemy of almost everything Feingold believes in. And yet here he is acting like the McCain of 2008 is still the McCain of 2001. What an idiot.

We do have great Dems in Congress - but most are in the House of Representatives, like Robert Wexler. What we need to do is give them promotions to the Senate.

Old Man McCain - Hatin' on McCain since 2008.


[ Parent ]
It's especially bad considering the McCain of 2001 (4.00 / 1)
was never actually real, but yet another overhyped media creation.

John McCain.  Wrong for America.

[ Parent ]
Very interesting take on the interview (0.00 / 0)
I think this is his passive-aggressive way of getting back at Obama for flip-flopping on FISA

Feingold, IIRC, also said some negative stuff about Edwards when Edwards was articulating the progressive populist message....maybe this is just the way Feingold operates, as you suggest, in a passive aggressive manner.

Who knows? But it is another way to look at it


[ Parent ]
Feingold = Senator = In the Senate (0.00 / 0)
They get to know one another in the Senate.  Word is that Feingold never liked Edwards for some reason, that they just didn't get along.

[ Parent ]
Racism is real, but (0.00 / 0)
I wouldn't throw around the accusation where there is no evidence.

McCain and Feingold worked closely together on a very uphill battle with campaign finance law. That kind of a shared struggle creates bonds. I think Feingold is just a guy who is incapable of intellectual dishonesty. In this case:

a.) I wish he would have followed the opposite of the old advice that if you can't say something good about someone, don't say anything at all: If you can't say something bad about the opposition, don't say anything at all.

b.) I think he is badly misjudging McCain. McCain seems to have a talent of convincing whoever he is talking to at the moment that he agrees with them. That's how he won over the press.

I'm very disappointed in Feingold for this, but I see no evidence of racism. And I am usually the one seeing racism where other people don't.

Chomsky Fever!
John McCain sucks.


[ Parent ]
That's fair. It would be hard to find evidence of racism (0.00 / 0)
in lots of ways.  I think deliberately working against your party's nominee could be an example of racism - but there are certainly other explanations.

I'm just not in the mood to take racism off the table as a possible motive.

QT

Visit the Obama Project

Searching for John McCain?



[ Parent ]
Which law McCain is now violating (4.00 / 1)
> McCain and Feingold worked closely together on
> a very uphill battle with campaign finance law.
> That kind of a shared struggle creates bonds. I
> think Feingold is just a guy who is incapable of
> intellectual dishonesty. In this case:

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that McCain in now in gross violation of McCain-Feingold among other federal election laws.  That bother Feingold a bit perhaps?

sPh


[ Parent ]
It's about policies to me (2.00 / 2)
And for that, I fully support Feingold over almost any other politician including Obama. Feingold was on the right side for almost every progressive issues. Not to say he fights and represents the values he believe in rather than cater to the current public's perception. It is that independent in mind  thought which are important for good candidates.  

uh huh (4.00 / 5)
great you can keep supporting Feingold when McCain is president and the supreme court is laden with Scalitos that gleefully interpret the constitution as promoting the sacred governmental right to spy on its citizens.  

John McCain is afraid of Canada!

[ Parent ]
Riiight. (4.00 / 1)
McCain is going to become President because a Democratic Senator largely unknown outside of progressive circles failed to follow message discipline in an interview?

Looking on Google News I do not see this being reported anywhere except liberal blogs and the "Milwaukee Journal Sentinel" from Feingold's home state who originally conducted the interview. Some articles are floating around containing praise by Feingold for McCain, based on the quote from McCain's "Democrats Love Me" ad; this interview, not that I can find.


[ Parent ]
Not the Point (4.00 / 7)
The point is that no self-respecting team player should say anything that validates McCain right now, even if they believe it to be true.  That's not what team players do.  What Republican is saying good things about Obama that the right doesn't hate?  Hagel says nice things, but he might actually support Obama.  Feingold is supposed to be a Democrat and a progressive, and he's offering cover to the enemy.  No matter how small, it doesn't matter.  Keep your shit in the locker room, it's a team sport.

[ Parent ]
Exactly (4.00 / 3)
If I had my way, every democratic surrogate response would begin:
"John McCain is full of shit."

They would then enumerate the reasons why.

Feingold knows better than this.  This is axe-grinding with Obama, and it is a very irresponsible thing to do at this point in the campaign.

John McCain.  Wrong for America.


[ Parent ]
In fairness, Feingold is notorious for not being a team player. (4.00 / 5)
That's his main usefulness in the Senate.  Articles describe him as a "lone wolf"; colleagues say he never hangs out with them, seldom speaks with them, never coordinates with them; he often steps all over their plans with his own, private ones.  The rest of the caucus was LIVID with him for announcing his censure resolution back in late 2005/ early 2006, because they had some other wiretapping response in mind and he stomped all over it, unannounced.  They learned about his resolution the moment he filed it, and had to spend the next week of TV time commenting on it, instead of what they had wanted to roll out.

So calling Feingold "not a team player" is kindof missing the point.  That's what he does, for good and for ill.  It usually is to our benefit, occasionally it's to our detriment, but that's what Feingold is.  That's why we like him; because someone has to be constitutionally inclined to disregard our own team and do whatever the fuck he happens to think is right.


[ Parent ]
Yes, but... (4.00 / 2)
there he was attacking from the left.  Here he just sounds like a goddamned Republican.  I like his independent streak.  I hate to make a sports metaphor here, but it just makes the point well:

Suppose Russ Feingold were a lone wolf on the soccer field.  His teammates hated him, because he did his own thing, and didn't always listen to him.  As a fan though, you love him, because he's creative, dribbles well, and helps them score goals.  He shakes things up, forces his team to do things differently, and puts the other side on their heals.  Constantly, he's pushing the ball upfield.  Then one day, instead of being selfish, but going up the field the correct direction, he turns around, and tries to score a goal for the other team.

That's what he's doing here, scoring goals for the other team.  


[ Parent ]
A team player (4.00 / 1)
would not have been the only vote in the Senate against the PATRIOT Act. We have to take the bad with the good. Overall, Feingold kicks ass. Good luck telling him what to do. His conscience dictates that, whether we always agree with him or not. [In this case I most certainly do not agree with him.]

Chomsky Fever!
John McCain sucks.


[ Parent ]
He's great when he's kicking ass... (4.00 / 3)
not so much when he's kissing it. (Especially when those asses happen to belong to Republicans).



John McCain.  Wrong for America.


[ Parent ]
Feingold was the deciding vote (0.00 / 0)
to confirm John Ashcroft as Attorney General in 2001, when the rest of the committee Dems opposed him because of his far-right views.

What was Feingold's reason? On a rainy day, Ashcroft gave him a ride home!


[ Parent ]
Okay (4.00 / 2)
Is Russ Feingold someone you have ever thought of as a team player?

[ Parent ]
Feingold's a Senator, not a paid campaign hack. (0.00 / 0)
come januafry, he'll still be a Senator, as will McCain. Why should he burn that bridge for a guy who sold him out on FISA and PATRIOT?



Democrat for US Senate, WI 2012


[ Parent ]
WI is supposedly a swing state (4.00 / 2)
Feingold is being openly hostile to Obama, damn the consequences.

John McCain won't insure children

[ Parent ]
Where's hostile to Obama? (0.00 / 0)




Democrat for US Senate, WI 2012


[ Parent ]
wrong (4.00 / 5)
Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown are the best we have (in the senate at least).

Glad to know it's not just me who thinks Feingold is acting like a total idiot here. I don't care if he voted against the Patriot Act. That doesn't excuse this crap.

John McCain is afraid of Canada!


Bernie Sanders rules (4.00 / 3)
it always amazes me that he does not get more online buzz.

[ Parent ]
Sherrod Brown (4.00 / 8)
I'm starting to grow on Sen. Brown, especially after I saw that he, as a freshman Sen., has already given $271,000 this cycle to the DSCC and Democratic Senate candidates.

Compare that to the $109,000 Sen. Boxer has given, and the $121,000 Sen. Feingold has given. So Sherrod Brown has already given more towards electing more Democrats to the Senate than the two most prominent progressive Senators combined.

More here:

http://openleft.com/showDiary....

(all numbers as of June 30, 2008)

My Silver State - Nevada's Progressive Community Blog


[ Parent ]
That's because (4.00 / 3)
he's a movement progressive. We need more like him.

John McCain is afraid of Canada!

[ Parent ]
Let Feingold Know (4.00 / 4)
Feel free to call his Senate Committee (i.e. political, not U.S. Senate) office and voice your displeasure.  And the Progressive Patriots Fund.  These were asinine statements and Matt summed up my sentiments exactly.

By the way, Reagan and Helms were at least 10 years out from the start of the intellectual part of the conservative movement, which started in the 1950s.  We have a big dearth actually in the intellectual, philosophical underpinning part of the progressive movement.  Our current politicians are not going to be Helmses and Reagans until that exists.  That said, we're maybe a few years from the real start to a coherent attempt at a progressive movement.  We're still a few years from someone who entered political life during that genesis and came of age along with that politics gaining power.  Feingold, Gore, et al are from a different era.  They're political consciousness is literally unshaped by the progressive movement.

Our uncompromising progressive politicians are being formed right now - or not formed, as it were.  

Also, this is not just about being uncompromising movement progressives, this is also about who has political skills.  Can you imagine if Russ Feingold had been our nominee going up against McCain?  


Here's his contact info (4.00 / 1)
... in Milwaukee
517 East Wisconsin Ave., Room 408
Milwaukee, WI 53202-4504
(414) 276-7282
Fax (414) 276-7284

If you donate to his Progressive Patriots Fund, mention that too.  


[ Parent ]
How do you think the Republican party became so narrow? (0.00 / 0)
Feingold is a solid liberal Senator, who has worked hard and fought courageously for the good of the country, yet he will now face the "displeasure" of the McCarthyite left, because he dared to speak off message.  



 I knew Incitatus. Incitatus was a friend of mine. Sarah Palin is no Incitatus!


[ Parent ]
Feingold prides himself on speaking his mind... (4.00 / 1)
... I'm sure he would want the people who support him to speak their minds too, whether they agree or disagree with him.

[ Parent ]
Has Bernie Sanders ever been a disappointment (4.00 / 4)
on any issue? I am just asking because he hardly ever gets mentioned by bloggers.
I know, I know, officially he is not a Democrat. But then on the other hand, to me, labels do not matter, VOTES matter.

Not yet (4.00 / 1)
to me anyway. Some people really hate the farm bill so I guess some people would criticize him for that (not me since I supported the farm bill). But other than that, I think he's basically been right on the mark for every issue. And he doesn't just vote the right way, he gets up there in the senate and pushes issues for workers and the environment every chance he gets.  

John McCain is afraid of Canada!

[ Parent ]
The Problem (4.00 / 2)
Is that he's not vocal, and he's not in the media often.  Honestly, and this is as somebody who is from Vermont and likes the guy a lot, and has voted for him since he could vote: I wish he would stop calling himself a socialist.  It's stupid, and it hurts his causes, and he could just be a loud and proud left-wing Democrat.  

Relevance matters, your branding matters, and it's stupid of him to try to champion his causes while labelling himself something that is objectively unpopular in the United States.  I am fine with taking unpopular stances, with being independent, all of it.  However, suppose a company wanted to launch a new product, and have it become the ubiquitos product in its field.  In fact, it is a great product.  That company isn't going to name itself something like "craptastic."  It's going to name it something people are comfortable with.


[ Parent ]
Might be a tad late for that now (0.00 / 0)
given that he's 67 years old. He doesn't have national aspirations and he does a lot of effective work behind the scenes in the senate so I think it's OK at this point. But you're right it would've made things easier for him to go on a national stage as an advocate for working people. I guess that just means Sherrod has to pick up even more of the slack.  

John McCain is afraid of Canada!

[ Parent ]
Disagree (4.00 / 2)
Bernie Sanders has actually done a lot to rehabilitate the term "socialist," which in my opinion is non-trivial. As long as "socialist" is a dirty word, the right is going to get a lot of traction simply by labeling progressive policies, e.g. universal health care, as "socialist." Because they are, in fact, socialist policies - and there is nothing wrong with that. The fact of the matter is that Americans support a broad array of socialist programs.  

[ Parent ]
Maybe we should all become Socialists. (0.00 / 0)
It would be a brilliant move: conservatives everywhere would instantly have aneurysms, and we would win elections by default.

[ Parent ]
Schumer is very tough (0.00 / 0)
He's not exactly progressive, but he is a tough advocate.

Conviction, Will and just plain Weakass... (4.00 / 1)
Across a spectrum of issues and events, Democrats have feared being anything but complimentary of the opposition party and it's members for decades - always planning to work with that person or an associate thereof on some issue or another and thus afraid to potentially "burn the bridge".  Republicans on the other hand, rarely have the same fear, they will insult and deride any member of the opposition party to advance their immediate agenda, knowing that down the road, a dozen Democrats will beg to work with them on legislation.

We see it time and again where a person takes an axe to the knees of the Democratic Party or one of it's champions, and then is soon thereafter seen side by side with hand held high by another Democrat, complimenting them on their fantastic Bi-partisan effort.  Lieberman trashed the party and it's ideals up and down his 06 campaign, and then off and on over the following Senate session, but we still see Democrats praising him regularly.  Several Republicans eviscerated Democratic incumbents and candidates over the last decade with pure malice, as they did with Max Cleland.  We don't rise up to defend our own though, that is a Republican thing.  They rise up to defend Mark Foley, Duke Cunningham, Tom Delay, etc, we throw our guys under the bus and let them flounder on their own until they are cleared of wrong doing or sent to a Federal Prison.

Before you get all pissy that we shouldn't be defending child molesters...you are right.  But what we should NOT be doing is throwing our guys under the bus before all the facts are in.  We should be standing up and saying "I won't comment on the charges, but I will say that Congressmen Democrat_01 was instrumental in the health care bill passed this year, and has been a great leader in the fight to make sure every widget is lead free and safe for our children."

We should reject those Democrats that demonstrate they are not worthy of our support, I would include John Edwards on that list.  We should hold our party's members to high standards of behavior, they should set a standard that exposes the hypocrisies of the opposition.

This is part of my on going rants that Democrats, Candidates and office holders need to have more conviction, more will to advance liberal messages and be less weakass.  You can't compromise in your opening pitch, the compromise comes at the end of the war, when your case has been firmly made and your position has advanced as far as it possibly can be.  Too many Democrats resign themselves to polling numbers or conventional wisdom that tells them a particular district or community won't accept a position (universal health care, energy independence/conservation/gay rights/you name it) so they immediately give up that ground, conceding to start from a position at center or right of center on that issue.  They are making their preconceptions true.  We need to start fighting from the left for every inch, making the argument in full.  Let the compromises come at the end, and on our side of the center.

More and Better Democrats, Every district, every issue, every inch.  


self grammar nazi (0.00 / 0)
twice (at least) i used it's instead of its.  I are sorry.  

[ Parent ]
Why Now? (4.00 / 1)
What motivated Feingold to give voice to those thoughts now and to the Wall Street Journal? To call them impolitic in the context of a presidential race is an understatement.

They suggest a deep-seated resentment of Obama. Perhaps they didn't work well together in the Senate.

Whatever the case, it comes across as a stab in the back.


If he had a deep-seated resentment .. (0.00 / 0)
why did Feingold vote for him in the WI primary?

John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion

[ Parent ]
Because Obama supported Feingold on FISA before (0.00 / 0)
or Obama's stance on rejecting public funding somehow undermines Feingold's signature campaign reform law.

I'm guessing....

John McCain won't insure children


[ Parent ]
And remember .. (0.00 / 0)
Feingold did lash out at Edwards too .. sometimes I wonder if Feingold would have gotten in the race .. if Obama hadn't

John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion

[ Parent ]
Not Wall Street Journal. (0.00 / 0)
Milwaukee Journal Sentinal.



Democrat for US Senate, WI 2012


[ Parent ]
Yeah, obviously Feingold has a high opinion of McCain from their work in the Senate. (4.00 / 4)
And since everyone admires him for being unfailingly honest and principled, clearly the correct course for him now would be to lie through his teeth and disparage McCain every chance he gets.

I have no problem with Feingold. He's an (actual) maverick, not a partisan leader. So if we don't pretend he's something he's not, we can appreciate him for what he is.

If the office of Fearless Leader of the Progressive Movement is truly necessary and we need someone to fill it, what about Howard Dean?


I prefer (0.00 / 0)
working together for the common good rather than rugged individualism that screws the other villagers at times.

John McCain is afraid of Canada!

[ Parent ]
He has obvious strengths (4.00 / 3)
but if I wanted him to be unflailingly honest and principled, how about not saying a damn thing.  I won't ask him to lie, I'll ask him to not say the positive things he thinks about McCain.

If he's a progressive, if he's a Democrat, if he cares about the things he cares about, then he shouldn't help McCain in any way right now.  

Regardless, I don't like that he's a maverick, I could give a damn about whether or not he's a maverick.  I want progressive leaders to stand up for progressive things and support the politicians who will make those things happen.  Obama isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but he's no McCain.  

You think conservatives sit around saying "oh but he's a maverick"?  No.  I like independent thought from my candidates and all, but I don't like them praising the other team.


[ Parent ]
exactly (4.00 / 2)
This isn't a f*cking western. I don't need a rugged John Wayne type to come in and be some sort of gadfly. What we need are movement progressives that work together to further the progressive movement so that we can create a better life for all people.

Feingold's statements do not do that and I question how much of a movement progressive he is if he really believes what he's saying anyway.  

John McCain is afraid of Canada!


[ Parent ]
Where's our Jesse Helms or Paul Laxalt or Ronald Reagan? (4.00 / 1)
He got caught having an affair in 2006 and is now powerless. But some don't think it matters.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

Feingold - Man of Principles (4.00 / 1)
So Russ Feingold didn't spout the Party Line . . . . Wah, wah, wah.

Is it so terrible that he spoke his true feelings about a person he has worked with in the past and with whom he found common ground?  At least you know Feingold is consistent with his analysis of individuals and not changing directions based on the varying winds of party bosses.

This partisan bickering about crap that means nothing is the reason this country is as screwed up as it is.  Keep it up, and make the James Carvilles, Dick Morris' and Karl Roves of the world proud of what they hath wrought. In the meantime, real problems like lack of national health care, your government spying legally on you, and a military budget run amok keep chugging along.  Never mind that, though, as long as we "win".  Just how is Obama's vote to re-institute FISA with telecom immunity that much different than McCain's actions?  

Perhaps if as much time were spent trying to influence the presumptive nominee's actions on important policy decisions rather than crying about comments one politician made about another we actually could accomplish "change we can believe in."

If not, the whole country is screwed . . . .


I'll call bs on this one (4.00 / 2)
The DNC just issued an ad on message that McCain is NO LONGER the maverick he once was.  Feingold essentially undid the party line.  It he's ready to break with the party - fine.  But I think Feingold is instead working against the presidential nominee, feeling himself safe in his Senate seat and feeling like the democrats will do ok without a president at the helm.  

That is, in fact, the meme going around right now - that democrats not only don't need a democratic president, but that they should avoid having one because a president and congress in the same party is bad.  I think Feingold sipped the koolaid on that one.  Moreover - I think it is possible that he's mad about FISA, but McCain isn't a FISA progressive, so I negate that as the argument for why he'd be undermining Obama.

QT

Visit the Obama Project

Searching for John McCain?



[ Parent ]
Not sure what's wrong with Dems... (4.00 / 3)
Here's a hint, Dems... You're cheerleading for our Presidential candidate now.  How hard is it to not say nice things about the opponent?  If you simply must, you can say something like "John McCain is a decent Senator, but would be an absolutely terrible President."  There is just no reason to basically dispute every negative attack thrown at him.  You can be sure that Republicans are careful not to do the same.

Tribal hatred (0.00 / 0)
Now it isn't that Feingold went "off message" - but he failed to view the objective truth about John McCain.

The objective truth is:  "McCain is a crazily mean lying scumbag."

Failure to perceive this "truth" is a serious error in judgment.

It isn't enough, to keep one's credentials in the Matt Stoller tribe, to state one's policy preferences, as Feingold did - one must harbor personal hatred for "the enemy" and agree that they are "crazy," "lying," "mean," "scumbags."

This sort of tribal, knee-jerk, partisan hatred is beyond parody.  Your revised post is even below Rush Limbaugh standards of civil discourse.



 I knew Incitatus. Incitatus was a friend of mine. Sarah Palin is no Incitatus!


Respectfully, What the hell are you talking about? (4.00 / 2)
If Feingold has really spoken his mind, and really believes that McCain is a maverick, what exactly was he basing that on?

The fact that McCain now supports offshore drilling, and has been duly rewarded by Big Oil?

Maybe it's that McCain has voted with Bush 95% of the time?

Or perhaps when he says McCain "Calls them as he sees them", he is referring to McCain's disowning of the very bill the two of them worked on (not to mention the McCain-Kennedy immigration bill that McCain said he "wouldn't vote for".

I don't see how this can be perceived as anything other than Feingold grinding an axe with Obama, and choosing a stupid and irresponsible way to do it.

Saying this is below Rush Limbaugh standards is quite simply ridiculous.  It is absolutely fair to criticize Feingold for this kind of move, and the comments of many of those defending him here have the same "cult of personality" aura many Obama supporters are accused of.

Is Feingold a good senator? Yes.  Did he make a mistake in judgement here? Absolutely.

John McCain.  Wrong for America.


[ Parent ]
"Fact" v. "opinion." (0.00 / 0)
I presume that Feingold developed his assessment of McCain by working with him in the Senate.  A word like "maverick" doesn't have any objective definition.

The Almanac of American Politics gives McCain ratings that would place him as a moderate.  As to the 95% rating:

"The claim is true. According to Congressional Quarterly's Voting Studies, in 2007 McCain voted in line with the president's position 95 percent of the time - the highest percentage rate for McCain since Bush took office - and voted in line with his party 90 percent of the time. However, McCain's support of President Bush's position has been as low as 77 percent (in 2005), and his support for his party's position has been as low as 67 percent (2001)."

http://www.factcheck.org/askfa...

67% is not a hardcore right-winger.  The current Democratic party message is that McCain has recently acted as a "true believer" although that has not been his history.

But the Democratic party line - that McCain is now some movement conservative - isn't an uncontrovertible truth based on his voting record.  McCain voted against his party more frequently when his party had lockstep control over the chamber.  This seems in line with an earned reputation for independence.  Now that the Democrats have control, he is voting against their bills at a high rate, but fewer Republican bills are presumably coming to the floor.  I don't think that suddenly makes him conclusively a movement conservative, just to the right of the people proposing the bills, just as before - when he was voting at 67% - he was more liberal than most of the people getting bills to the floor.

I don't think that it's ridiculous to say that calling people "scumbags" is below Rush Limbaugh standards.  Feingold's perception is opinion, not fact, and it seems amply supported by a cursory examination of the facts.  And he knows McCain, personally, much more than you, me, or Stoller.



 I knew Incitatus. Incitatus was a friend of mine. Sarah Palin is no Incitatus!


[ Parent ]
Limbaugh has said that women who complain about... (4.00 / 1)
sexual harassment are actually the ones who like it.  I don't see how calling someone a "scumbag" is below that category.

You're boy Russ is flat wrong on this one for any of the reasons I listed above.

He might feel that flip-flopping on every issue, and playing both sides of the isle (i.e. giving lip service to being against torture while voting to allow the President define the geneva conventions.) is being a maverick.  I think it shows an utter lack of principle.

I'm sorry, I'm just not going to give Russ the benefit of the doubt for kissing the ass of the Republican nominee.  People who get into elected office know better than that.  This is him getting back at Obama (for something) in a very petty and destructive manner, and he deserves to be criticized for it.

John McCain.  Wrong for America.


[ Parent ]
Things I learn on this board (4.00 / 1)
Calling people lying scumbags is ok, as long as you're directing your comments at a Republican.  

"Elected officials" "know better" than to praise the opponent - even though many prominent Democrats have done so, in much the same language as Feingold used here.  They all knew better, because you said they must.

Feingold MUST be "getting back at Obama" for some petty personal grievance, because it simply isn't possible that Feingold could have an opinion different than yours in good faith.  

Russ Feingold is "my boy" because I think he's entitled to speak his mind, regardless of what Obama thinks.

 I knew Incitatus. Incitatus was a friend of mine. Sarah Palin is no Incitatus!


[ Parent ]
This isn't a leap of faith or a fanatical delusion... (4.00 / 3)
John McCain is not "maverick", he is not an independent thinker, he isn't creative, and he certainly isn't principled -- all evidenced by his complete reversals in policy and rhetoric from 1999-2000 to 2006-2008.

When a person through the magic of modern PR machines, creates an image that is bought by the American public and then spends a decade disproving the validity of that image, anyone who defends and perpetuates that image is doing the nation a disservice.

Senator Feingold has been a tremendous voice of the Progressive Movement on several issues, often I wish he would be louder and more aggressive, but I thank him for what he has done none the less.  This interview however, should not have happened.  He is a seasoned Senator, and certainly knew his positive comments framing McCain in exactly the manner his campaign was aiming for was bad for Obama and bad for the nation.  Whatever personal relationship Feingold may have with McCain should be separated from the Presidential Campaign.  Feingold could have easily opted not to comment on the subject, or used generic pleasantries, "I enjoyed working with Senator McCain on Campaign Finance Reform", would be fine, though I would much prefer, "I enjoyed working with Senator McCain, I only wish he would adhere to the laws he helped write."

When Obama wins in November, this will be all water under the bridge and not worth crying about, but no one knows how this will play out and this was an interview Senator Feingold should never have delivered.

You know in 2006, if you told me Matt Stoller and I would be on the same side of any arguement, I would have laughed.  The "discussions" we had at rootscamp in 06 were pretty epic.


[ Parent ]
Two arguments made here (4.00 / 1)
First, if you want to bash Feingold for going off message, fine.  But I think you need to consider whether the Democrats really want to develop a machine that punishes these sorts of "transgressions."  Feingold could have been more helpful to the Obama campaign.  I'm not sure how much grief he should receive for going off message.

Second, if you believe that there is something objective and rational about calling people lying scumbags, and bashing people or claiming they lack judgment because they don't share your personal hatreds, then I really don't know what to say, because there isn't any beginning point for a rational discussion.

 I knew Incitatus. Incitatus was a friend of mine. Sarah Palin is no Incitatus!


[ Parent ]
the argument isnt.. (4.00 / 1)
...That Feingold should call McCain a lying scumbag....McCain is a lying scumbag (at the very least his campaign is) and as such Feingold should not praise him publicly.  He should certainly not regurgitate McCain for President talking points/propaganda.  It is completely unacceptable.

I do want a machine, organization, something...that holds ALL politicians including DEMOCRATS accountable for their actions.  You want to be the party of ethics and responsibility?  Open and Honest Government?  We the people must be active and engaged, and demanded it each and every day from every one of our members.

As for punishment for such "transgressions" - at the very least we should be calling their offices, emailing, sending letters, and reminding them that this behavior is not ok.  On the flip side, when they do something fantastic, we should be rewarding them, send $5 to their campaign, pac, or as someone once suggested to me...make an envelope with that persons name on it...put a dollar in when they do something right, take one out when they do something wrong, something really great, put in 10$, really wrong, send the envelope to their primary challenger.


[ Parent ]
How is the left different than the right? (4.00 / 3)
It is one thing to demand that politicians support your causes.  Feingold has done so.

It is another to demand that politicians mindlessly repeat talking points.

The first is sensible.  The second is aspirational, perhaps, in some people's minds, but making it a point of punishment, whether by email campaigns or otherwise, is McCarthyite.

For a long time, I have been frustrated with the lock-step intolerance of the right wing.  I am saddened to see the emerging left as not much different.  When it becomes natural to call people "lying scumbags" or "anti-American" as if these slurs were self-evident truth, your movement has lost its humanity and decency.  When people are punished, not for their actions, but for merely going off script or not sharing the intensity of the movement's dislike, you have a movement with a totalitarian soul.


 I knew Incitatus. Incitatus was a friend of mine. Sarah Palin is no Incitatus!


[ Parent ]
.... (0.00 / 0)
I don't follow how you came to that giant leap...

I in no way advocated for anyone to mindlessly repeat talking points, I actually said it was unacceptable for Feingold to repeat McCain's talking points.

I don't want Feingold to spew out any talking points, I just want him to shut his mouth or speak in a manner that doesn't hurt the party and candidates, UNLESS those candidates have demonstrated they don't belong in the party.  If Senator Feingold wants to take a mic and speak out against DINO's like Jack Davis in NY-26, I'd applaud that.  Speaking in a manner that helps McCain and hurts Obama, you gotta be kidding me.


[ Parent ]
No leap. (0.00 / 0)
It doesn't really matter whether you perceive Feingold as repeating McCain talking points, or whether you want to conversely reward him for speaking out against DINOs.  The bottom line seems to be you want to punish him for straying verbally from your orthodoxy.  Not casting bad votes - speaking in ways you don't like.

It seems to me self-evident that this is at least advocating the sort of corrupting lock-step system that the Republicans imposed, to the great detriment of the country, and fundamentally offensive to the notion of free debate. This isn't similar to holding politicians to ethical standards - in fact, it's rather the opposite, punishing politicians for failing to swear allegiance to other politicians, regardless of what they independently believe.

Finegold is entitled to his opinion.  So is Hagel, by the way.  He's entitled to speak his opinion, even if you disagree with it, even if it hurts Obama, and even if he's wrong.


 I knew Incitatus. Incitatus was a friend of mine. Sarah Palin is no Incitatus!


[ Parent ]
McCain supports a war that killed my cousin (0.00 / 0)
yes he is a scumbag.  

John McCain is afraid of Canada!

[ Parent ]
He's running a scumbag's campaign, at the very least (0.00 / 0)
It's impossible to watch the attack ads full of absurd ad hominem sneers and flat-out lies, and think the guy has any sense of decency, ethics, or honor whatsoever.  Sorry, but it's the truth.  If that's not who he is, then he should offer up something other than soulless demagoguery.

McCain/Palin 2008: Unstable/Unable

[ Parent ]
Micheal Moore article in the Guardian titled.. (4.00 / 1)
'How To Blow It'" he writes...

Keep saying nice things about McCain. Like how he's been "good on global warming" and campaign finance. Keep reminding a country at war that he and he alone is a war hero. Not to mention an all-round good guy. Say that enough and what happens? The same thing that happens when you repeat over and over, "Apply directly to the forehead" - people start to believe it! You've sold them on the idea that McCain isn't a bad egg, and they do not hear the rest of what you have to say: "But John McCain is four more years of George W Bush." If you keep saying he used to be a "maverick", our less-attention-span citizens hear only the "maverick" part, not the past tense verb included in that sentence.



Couldn't agree more. (4.00 / 1)


John McCain.  Wrong for America.

[ Parent ]
matt, forgive me for exploiting this moment of weakness, (4.00 / 1)
but perhaps the problem is structural--maybe it's our political system...?  maybe its parliamentary/federalist liberalism and global capitalism...?  not to be, like, left-wing about it.  not on 'openleft.'  i wouldn't want to come across as, like, marxist on a 'left' blog.  or socialist, like bernie sanders, whom i see has drawn some criticism above in the comments. cool.  just so we're clear about being decidedly non-left lefties.

'improving the situation' to any significant degree really is 'that hard.'  it's a situation in which people go into a magic booth once every four years and pick the red team or the blue team based upon how they felt and whom they identified with when they watched a thirty-second television advertisement.

no competent party leaders?  we have political establishments that are blown about in the choice of their own vice presidential candidate by  the words of Bob Schieffer, for christ's sake.  saturday night live couldn't have come up with anything that absurd.

i mean, are you kidding me?  and i'm supposed to stay inspired to go knock on doors and donate capital and forward emails to my friends with campaign talking points?  this is coming from someone who has dripped sweat dropping lit, phone banking and canvassing as part of the not left-left, lefty 'progressive movement'.

what, we're supposed to 'take on the [two-party] system' as MarKos suggests in his soon-to-be-bestselling book?  oh, right--like we did with john tester and jim webb and stephanie herseth and joe sestak and debbie wasserman-schulz (and russ feingold and barbara boxer, and, and, and...), those bastions of reliable 'left' leadership?  

i repeat, it is insulting to my and your intelligence.  i'm done. yep, the rubber band just snapped. no more pep talks.  "i will bite my thumb at them; which is a disgrace to them, if they bear it."  

good luck.  you stay classy, san diego.

Kicking it in the NY-25.


The Senate is worse than the House. (0.00 / 0)
These guys are all more worried about their clubby little friendships than they are about winning.


Progressive Patriot? (4.00 / 1)
It's ironic that Russ Feingold chairs the Progressive Patriot Fund.  He's not showing much patriotism towards progressives with such heart warming support for John McCain.  

John McCain wants to privatize social security.

The Unknown Feingold (4.00 / 1)
This kind of behavior does not surprise partisan Democrats in Wisconsin. Feingold is not a team player almost as a matter of principle. It is very odd and would take a novelist to plumb properly, because this quality seems to derive precisely from his manifest strengths.

He picks the worst possible moment to act, when forces have reached the breaking point. That is when he pitches in the contrary direction, harming his allies and progressive forward movement, but only if it entails moving against the majority. Contrarianism is more important to him than any issue, policy, or movement.

He did this very thing with girl friend Susan Collins during impeachment days, took out after Clinton at his (and our) most vulnerable moment, the only Dem in the Senate to advocate continuing the process towards conviction at a key moment. That was weeks after he had won a squeaker with all our help, an election he would not have won had he revealed himself before rather than after the election.


Obama the messiah (4.00 / 1)
Looks like many of you here Obama is truly the one aka GOD. He is perfect in everything and he is the progressive. Oppose him and you are racist cloak hidden Republican. Sad to see this is what our progressive net movement has become.

Free speech and expression?@! Only when you say good things about us.

Universal Healthcare?@! That is so socialist and impractical. Instead we should either negotiate the status quo (Didn't we do that for the past 30+ years) or demolish the insurance companies (I wonder how you plan to do it).

By this time the election is over, i wonder how much of our progression we have surrendered in the name of election 'the one'.

Judging from issues itself, if Obama doesn't have a D on his tag, i would not even bother voting for him. Just for that D that he is getting my vote and nothing else. So if this post is to pit Feingold against Obama, then you are really being risky ground as if this goes on in the future, i would choose our good democratic senators or congressman over Obama. Obama's election is already harming local races and state propositions. Just for your information there is a rule in Obama's camp where if you volunteer or work for Obama, you are not allowed to do so for local or state candidates or ballot propositions. Think about it.


Why blame Feingold for working on a f***kd up system? (0.00 / 0)
Only the tyranny of the two party system forces Obama and Feingold into the same party.  

McCain Has a Republican Healthcare Plan for the 21st Century

First Edwards now Feingold (0.00 / 0)
What a disappointing week its been.  Praise McCain all you want after November, Russ.  Doing so now is just a knife in the back.  Obama is no progressive, but now I have my doubts about Russ...

We don't have to be nutso partisan like the neocons, but geez we should at least have some judgment when praising our opponents.  Seriously bad judgment Russ.  


I really just don't know.... (0.00 / 0)
Feingold is not being a team player. And he's not doing what he should as far as sticking with his party in an election. However, maybe he is just being honest and calling 'em how HE sees 'em. He knows McCain better than any of us... we like to observe his behavior and play armchair psychologist, but what do we really know? Maybe we're wrong.

Personally, I believe McCain would be a disaster and I do believe he would sink the Supreme Court for a generation and govern as though the natural state of the U.S. was "at war." I think he's as dangerous as anyone. But I also reserve enough doubt as a rational person to admit that maybe, just maybe, I'm wrong. And maybe someone who knows McCain MUCH better than any of us is right.

Of course, if Feingold feels that McCain would be a fine president, he needs to shut his mouth and get focused on actually winning. Now is NOT the time to be impressing people with your honesty -- there are goals to achieve and we need everyone on board. But I'm not sure I can scold Russ for not being a "good little Democrat" right now after he's seen his party sell out on every core value it's supposed to represent. Patriot Act, War, Spying, etc. Feingold is a voice in the wilderness, definitely a 'maverick' in the sense that he bucks the so-called 'pragmatists' that seem to dominate his own party. I can see why he would latch on to a McCain figure and see the similarities between them.


Donate to Open Left
ELECTION 2008 Presidential Forecast
Senate Forecast
House Forecast
PREMIUM AD

ADVERTISEMENTS



MENU

OpenLeft in your inbox!

 

Or, subscribe to each author individually.

OPTIMIZE MCCAIN About
Tips
McCain
John McCain
QUICK HITS
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

OPENLEFT VIDEO WALL
Donna Edwards Thanks OpenLeft


Russ Feingold on the New FISA Legislation


Jon Conyers on Impeachment


Al Franken Thanks Blue Majority


FCC Commissioner Michael Copps on Pearl Jam, Net Neutrality


Darcy Burner on the FISA Legislation

More OpenLeft video...