pamphlet (0.00 / 0)

The Atlantic has translated some excerpts from a protester’s pamphlet (complete with artwork!). How to overthrow

“I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that.”
-Lawrence Summers

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by: kbuck @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 04:52:48 AM UTC

 

Live updates (0.00 / 0)

on the Guardian’s blog

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by: Valatan @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 07:13:36 AM UTC

 

The US will remain (4.00 / 1)

on the wrong side of history here — too much invested in the “stability” fosterd by Mubarak’s dictatorship, although I suspect (seriously) that in this instance, W would’ve been better. Obama’s foreign policy looks more Nixonian everyday.

The good news is, the forces of history and the yearning for freedom are even larger than Joe Biden’s mouth.  

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by: david mizner @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 12:15:15 PM UTC

 

W was (4.00 / 1)

vociferous in his support for Mubarak at all opportunities.  You can google their names, and find numerous examples of this.  I remember either him or Condi calling Mubarak a ‘defender of democracy’ or some shit like that, once.  

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by: Valatan @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 14:24:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

In fact (0.00 / 0)

Bush and especially Condi hit Egypt relatively hard for its human rights record. And there’s evidence that their jawboning created room for dissent in Egypt. Bush’s “freedom spring” was over-hyped but it wasn’t a neocon concoction. Needless to say, his policy was fraught with hypocrisy and undermined by the Iraq War. Still his push for democratization –which he’d mostly abandoned even rhetorically by the end his admin — is widely seen in the Arab world as a bright spot among mostly dark ones. You can look it up.

Obama’s, as he’s prone to do, learned precisely the wrong lesson. The problem with Bush’s Middle East policy wasn’t rhetorically championing human rights — it was everything else.  

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by: david mizner @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 15:09:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

oh – you guys! – (0.00 / 0)

Obama is a ‘god’ in Egypt compared to Bush – because he learned precisely the right lesson how at least to ‘speak’ to Muslims – but carry on – It’s ‘politics’ – Right? That’s why all these ‘politicians’ now also in Egypt crawl out of their hidings – and try to ‘hitch a ride’ – and the religious crowd is showing up too – to make it ‘their’ movement –  

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by: pieceofcake @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 15:23:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

Really? (0.00 / 0)

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu…

I can dredge up about ten more like it.  

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by: Valatan @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 15:50:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

Or, for instance, (0.00 / 0)

this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01…

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by: Valatan @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 15:57:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

Of course (0.00 / 0)

He was still an American president; he didn’t break with Mubarak. Notice, those, that those two are from the beginning and end of his admin. In the middle, 2004-06 his admin got relatively tough, and Muslim reformers liked the lingo. That’s simply a fact.

I heard this first hand. Or I guess second-hand. I work for a human rights organization that does work in Egypt and we often hear from frontline activists who appreciated Bush’s relatively tough stance, and they’ve been deeply disappointed in Obama’s rhetoric and actions — for example his not urging that Egypt allow in international monitors during last year’s parliamentary elections.

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by: david mizner @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 16:05:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

This captures the sentiment pretty well (4.00 / 2)

This is particularly the case for Arab reformers who, while disliking the Bush administration in almost every way, were fully aware that Bush’s “freedom agenda” helped usher in a promising moment for Arab reform.

On the Obama administration’s relative lack of pressure, Esam al-Erian, a prominent Muslim Brotherhood leader, sounded almost wistful of political openings that came about under Bush: “[Now President Mubarak] can do whatever he wants internally…. It feels like we’ve gone backward a little bit,” he said.

Indeed, the excitement Arabs felt after Mr. Obama’s historic Cairo speech became the backdrop for the mounting disappointment of the last nine months. Instead of making a clean break with past US policies, the current administration has reverted to the neorealism of President Clinton and the first President Bush, with its emphasis on competence and pragmatism.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Comme…

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by: david mizner @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 16:09:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

fair enough (4.00 / 1)

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by: Valatan @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 16:23:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

not fair enough – (0.00 / 0)

who is listening to the religious idiots of the Muslim brotherhood? – And what Arab reformers? – The dudes who played politics with Mubarak for 30 years. And hardly ever was an American President more hated than Bush in the Bazar – the only place that counts!  

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by: pieceofcake @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 16:39:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

ElBarradei was exiled for a decade (0.00 / 0)

and is in jail now.  There is a middle class civil society in Egypt, certainly.  Iran too.  And note how, above, it is actually stated that the arab street hated Bush, but appreciated this one thing.  

The fucking world isn’t 100% black and white.  If you run around sorting everything into angels and demons, you’re going to miss the bulk of meaning.  Saying that Bush, in a brief, and unsupported way that was undercut by the Iraq war once did something good is not an edorsement of bush.  Saying that there were good elements to the health care bill is not an endorsement of the whole health care bill or the negotiation process thereof.  

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by: Valatan @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 17:02:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

house arrest, not jail (0.00 / 0)

but still, that’s a significant secular opposition leader.  

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by: Valatan @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 17:04:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

who is doing the black and white? (0.00 / 0)

I was reacting to one of the most idiotic political myth that the tough ‘Freedom Agenda” of Bush helped the opposition in a country like Egypt. And Obamas ‘lack of pressure’ didn’t help-  because a member of the brotherhood of Muslims said so.
No wonder there are friends of mine in Egypt who think we never will understand each other!    

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by: pieceofcake @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 17:19:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

and nothing is less – (0.00 / 0)

called for by my friends in Kairo that ‘significant secular opposition leaders’ try to play their games.  

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by: pieceofcake @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 17:41:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

Why should we listen to your "friends"? (0.00 / 0)

When you openly admit that you will never understand each other:

No wonder there are friends of mine in Egypt who think we never will understand each other!  

“It sounds wrong…
     …but its right.”

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by: SpitBall @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 18:02:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

you shouldn't – (4.00 / 1)

it would be a waste of time!

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by: pieceofcake @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 18:13:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

or lets say: This is the way it plays out – (0.00 / 0)

Somebody writes: “I heard this first hand. Or I guess second-hand. I work for a human rights organization that does work in Egypt and we often hear from frontline activists who appreciated Bush’s relatively tough stance, and they’ve been deeply disappointed in Obama’s rhetoric and actions” —
and yesterday I talked to a friend in Kairo who once told me:
“It was Obamas speech at the University which made him think: We made it!” – That NOW there was no way to turn back time anymore – That the idea of his and his friends, that Kairo could be just another one of these ‘world cities’, where people from all over -(from all religions) could meet – and Muslim brotherhoods would have a hard time recruting new ‘brothers’. And then in the last days – he and all his friends – who are in no way connected with any ‘frontline activists’  – with no political political party or religious group wanted to make sure that NOBODY is able anymore to turn back time in Kairo –

And all of this is not connected – at all – or only if you want it too!  

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by: pieceofcake @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 21:26:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]  

Tweets about egypt protests "protesters release prisoners" (0.00 / 0)

http://twitter.com/fearraigh75

#    litfreak Been watching AlJazeera Arabic. Best news so far is the police officers who took off their uniforms and joined the people. #Jan25    17 minutes ago  via web    Retweeted by fearraigh75 and 34 others

# evanchill Important distinction: Mohamed ElBaradei has not been “arrested,” as far as we know he has not been allowed to leave the mosque. #jan25 23 minutes ago via HootSuite Retweeted by fearraigh75 and 19 others

# AJE reporting protestors in Suez have taken a police station and freed all prisoners arrested in recent days. Amazing #jan25 #egypt 18 minutes ago via Echofon

I don’t have links for the stories on AJE

see also:

http://twitter.com/search?q=%2…

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The government has a defect: it’s potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they’re pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 13:37:46 PM UTC

 

good link for minute to minute reporting (0.00 / 0)

http://www.enduringamerica.com…

1319 GMT: The son of Ayman Nour, the prominent opposition leader, says his father is in intensive care. Nour was hit in the head, as he was praying at a mosque, by a rock thrown by a “thug” affiliated with security forces.

Nour’s son said the atmosphere at the mosque was “intimidating” with the plainclothes “thugs” armed with steel bars, as well as the official security forces.

1315 GMT: Al Jazeera showing images of lines of protesters praying in the street while, behind them, smoke rises from a police kiosk burning on one of Cairo’s major bridges.

1312 GMT: From Alexandria, Al Jazeera’s Rawza Regeh reports a “huge fire” with ambulances and fire engines moving to and from the scene.

1310 GMT: From Suez, the Al Jazeera correspondent reports protesters have taken over the police station and freed detainees.

Three armoured vehicles were set alight, with other protesters trying to put out the fires.

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The government has a defect: it’s potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they’re pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 13:46:18 PM UTC

 

What are these protests about? (4.00 / 1)

It should be interesting to follow the media narratives about these protests–not only in Egypt, but also those that have already toppled a regime in Tunisia and others that are cropping up in Yemen and Algeria.  (I don’t include Lebanon here because it has its own unique political situation; in any case, others are definitely better informed about this than me.)

Obviously, people in Egypt and elsewhere are asking for democracy and protesting against autocratic, corrupt governments that abuse police powers.  Notably, these are secular protests against secular dictatorships in Muslim countries–definitely too subtle for Fox News, but I also wonder how the New York Times will handle it.  The protests are being spearheaded by young people.  We also can’t neglect the fact that people are protesting high prices, low standards of living, unemployment and a general lack of opportunity.  Dictators can be toppled, fair elections held and democracy instituted, whether western government and corporate elites like it or not.  But whoever ends up succeeding Ben Ali in Tunisia (and maybe Mubarak in Egypt) will still have to deal with the same economic problems, and western governments will put up great resistance to any kind of real change that would put the global South on a more equal playing field.

What I suspect is that most U.S. and European media will try to make these protests all about democracy–which they are, in part.  But people in North Africa face dire economic realities that are largely imposed by North America and Western Europe.  And as usual, western media won’t want to say too much about that.

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by: Eurotrash @ Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 16:34:39 PM UTC