No, We Can't Fix It Later

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 14:30


Some progressives, like Mark Schmitt and Matt Yglesias, are arguing that one of the reasons the Progressive Block on health care should eventually fold is because passing a health care bill now will be just a start which can be fixed next year.

Schmitt:

Use the 60-vote Senate to pass whatever they can pass now -- we liberals will grumble but live with it -- and then use reconciliation next year to fix it.

Yglesias:

It's a bill liberals would find horribly disappointing, but you could imagine it getting sixty votes in the senate.

Then if you get that done, all you need is a second bill. At that point, changing the co-op rules to make it work like a real public option, making the subsidies more generous, expanding Medicaid, and other wholesome progressive stuff all becomes budget-relevant material that can be done through reconciliation with only fifty votes.

This idea isn't going to work.  It rings as hollow as the argument about how, if it turned out that the stimulus wasn't big enough, we could always pass a second stimulus later on. That worked out really well:

  • Just after the inauguration, Hotline polled the country on the stimulus package.  Even with a question wording that emphasized increasing the deficit, there was clear majority support:

    Diageo/Hotline Poll conducted by FD. Jan. 21-24, 2009. N=800 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.5 (for all registered voters).

    "In general, do you support or oppose Congress and the President passing an $825 billion economic stimulus plan to jumpstart the economy, even if it means increasing the federal deficit in order to do so?"
    Support: 54%
    Oppose 34%

  • In July, Hotline polled on support for a second stimulus, using a question wording much more favorable than the one above.  Even with the better wording, there was clear majority opposition to a second stimulus:

    Diageo/Hotline Poll conducted by FD. July 9-13, 2009. N=800 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.5 (for all registered voters).

    "As you may know, there's been some discussion about the potential for another stimulus package that would be designed to provide more economic stimulus to the economy. If there was a proposal for another stimulus package, would you support it or oppose it?"

    Support: 36%
    Oppose: 52%

Given how infrequently Congress passes unpopular legislation, passing a second stimulus has become a political impossibility.  The "oh, it isn't good enough, but we can fix it later" argument completely failed when it came to the stimulus.

And so it is the case with health care reform.  Right now, we are only at 45 votes for the public option in the Senate.  With Democratic, Presidential and health care reform approval all sliding quickly, the idea that it will be easier to reach 50 votes in the Senate next year does not seem realistic at all.

It is going to be extremely difficult just to pass this bill.  The idea that we can pass it again next year, when both the reform and the people passing it will be significantly less popular, doesn't hold up.

Passing a public option is a once in a generation chance that we have now, and only now. It will fail unless the Progressive Block holds the line, and unless we can get fifty votes for a public option in the Senate.  The political situation probably won't be this favorable again until kids I don't even have, and I am not even currently trying to have, are in middle school.  If we fold and give into the "oh, we can fix it later" canard, we will be having this same argument again in fifteen years time.

Chris Bowers :: No, We Can't Fix It Later

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I think you are misreading Matt Yglesias (4.00 / 1)
My reading is that he is defending splitting the health care bill into two pieces, one of which passes by reconciliation, THIS FALL.  I don't see anything about "next year" or "later."


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

also (0.00 / 0)
I think this is the only way the "reconciliation option" can possibly work on health care.  

I know there's a lot of pushing for senators to ignore the parliamentarian (who back in 1989 was put in place by Democrats when they were annoyed by other guy!) and pass a lot of stuff that anyone with a shred of honesty would say breaks the Byrd rules that really do exist, but I do not think there is even a one in a million chance of it happening.  So the non-budget stuff has to go through the 60 vote route.



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


[ Parent ]
Right, that's what Yglesias (4.00 / 1)
is suggesting, and it jibes with a trial balloon floated by the White House and Congressional Dems in the Wall Street Journal.

http://online.wsj.com/article/...

Without having thought much about it, this strikes me as a bad idea. A Sen opposed to the part be pass in reconciliation could filibuster than other half of the reform package.


[ Parent ]
Certainly a bad idea to trial balloon it... (0.00 / 0)
...definitely...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Unfortunately, you are wrong, Chris... (0.00 / 0)
Depending on reconciliation to get 50 votes is so politically charged, it will not work, and there is no guarantee it is even doable.  The other day someone on here, maybe you, said we had 46 votes and only needed 45...one has already dropped.  This will NOT be done through reconciliation because first, the Repugs are already screaming about it, and the media loves that; and two, the media has already assigned a negative slant to it, so public opinion will be against it.

We need to follow the President's lead and get what we can get now AND build on that success down the road, and transfer that "good feeling" to other progressive issues, and have the President re-elected and be even more emboldened.  The alternative is this:  health care fails...Democrats look like they can't lead...Democrats could lose big in 2010 because the press and the Repugs will campaign on the Dems failure...the President will be substantially weakened and the Repugs will be emboldened...further progressive legislative possibilities are quashed...2012 is doubtful, as are more potential Congressional losses...NOTHING at all is accomplished on health care and there are still very good needs being addressed in the health care bill not necessarily related  to the public option...

I don't think we can encourage failure.


I'm sorry, that is complete nonsense (4.00 / 2)
I've seen this "politically charged" line appearing in the last few days, with the suggestion that the public or the media wouldn't accept a bill passed through reconciliation as "legitimate."

It's complete nonsense.  Have you every heard anyone say the Bush tax cuts, or Clinton tax increases, or anything else pass though reconciliation were not "legitimate" as opposed to unwise, or stupid, or whatever? We all know people who think the Florida 2000 election was stolen, or Ohio 2004 was stolen, or that terror alerts were illegitimate, or Yoo's memos were illigitimate and criminal, but I have never heard of such a thing.  Can you give me an example?  Until then, it's just Republican and corporate Dem propaganda.



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


[ Parent ]
regardless of what you think... (0.00 / 0)
it will not happen that way...my other reason besides it being politically charged, is that there is not even any guarantee that it can be done...I also agree that any Senator(s) not comfortable with that route can simply be involved in filibustering the other part of the bill going for 60 votes...I can see that coming from a mile away

[ Parent ]
It is not going to happen. PO or NO (4.00 / 1)
There will be no bill. There will be no Health Reform Bill, without a public option.

If someone thinks splitting it is a good idea, the Public Option goes first. Capice?

Ther will be no Health Reform Bill, without a Public Option.

By the way therealityis, here's where you can support the Heroes of Congress with a contribution, cause unless there is a public option there will be no Bill.

So you might want to get on board,
if you want a Health Reform Bill.

http://www.actblue.com/page/th...
Standing Up For The Public Option ACT BLUE
(337,212 Raised So far)
"

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
other part (4.00 / 1)
That is the biggest issue.  In most of these scenarios you still need 60 that want something passed.  The thought by some is this technique could be used to shield Blue Dogs, not work around them.  They could vote for the "good stuff" and still oppose those "left of the left".

[ Parent ]
re (4.00 / 3)
Unfortunately, you are wrong, Chris... Depending on reconciliation to get 50 votes is so politically charged, it will not work, and there is no guarantee it is even doable.

bush and the gop passed the tax cuts via reconciliation but somehow the senate still works

and I haven't see any 'the country is mad at them for using reconciliation' evidence

This will NOT be done through reconciliation because first, the Repugs are already screaming about it, and the media loves that; and two, the media has already assigned a negative slant to it, so public opinion will be against it.

screaming? they will scream no matter what you do

they won't give you a pass no matter what you do


[ Parent ]
Hopeful is (almost) right, you are (maybe) misreading Matt (4.00 / 1)
Matt has made similar arguments before, so you are forgiven for missing this, but this particular post is about using reconciliation to pass the public option with only 50 votes.

Actually, come to think of it, Schmitt is making a similar point.

I think you are right about needing to get the order right and making sure any split bill option is guaranteed to really happen correctly.

In any case, I think you need to be more clear.  I assume you are in favor of using reconciliation to get the public option.  In fact, I'm almost at the point of thinking the Progressive Block is about forcing the Senate to use some form of 50 vote passage.


Why do we have to keep saying it? (4.00 / 3)


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


I'm curious (4.00 / 1)
I'm not up on my legislative history, so I'll put it to the community. How often have the necessary aspects of a particular reform been so vociferously debated and so subject to private influence that majority parties have pursued some kind of "in phases" strategy to get all of the reform through the legislature?

It strikes me that this kind of strategy would stall in the reconciliation phase because legislators would be forced to prove that the original reform legislation needs to be amended. This would kick off a new set of debates, recriminations, and silliness that would scare Democrats yet again, leading to the collapse of the second phase of the reform legislation.

Any thoughts on this line of thinking?


Different Logics (4.00 / 6)
The argument that we can do something now, and then improve it later is not one I reject out of hand.  It's simply a matter of historical fact, for example, that Social Security was significantly expanded over the years.  But that's because Social Security was established in the first place.

By the same logic, I'm willing to support a public option, even though single payer is what I really want, because the public option will be something established that can be expanded upon in the years ahead.  Once it's established, it need not take the same sort of once-in-a-generation type of effort to make significant improvements.  The nature of the political forces around medical care will have been changed by the simple act of establishing the public option.

None of this applies to passing the other stuff without the public option.  In fact, passing mandates without the public option would be tantamount to political suicide.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Chris is right on the money here (4.00 / 2)
We will probably not get another shot at any kind of healthcare reform for many years.  Democrats are not going to be able to come back and do this in 2011, after they will have even less votes in Congress.  Politics doesnt work that way.  

The one difference is that if the framework... (4.00 / 2)
...remained solid, even if it didn't have adequate funding, that funding could be much more easily restored in the future...  Just add it on to a defense appropriation or something that the GOP can't block easily... also reconciliation is much, much easier that way...

Otherwise, Chris is right... no way we get another shot at this... our margins in congress will probably be reduced next year and subsequent years...

We've got to get the best bill we can out there!

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
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