Munich comin every day

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Nov 28, 2009 at 10:30


"So I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
Hopin' for the best
Even think I'll go to prayin'
Every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin' every day"

It's not that neoliberalism is neoconservatism with a human face.  It's not Obama's first term is Bush's third with a human face.  That's not it at all.  That's just the outward result.  But the innner dynamics are quite another thing, and because those responsible are obsessed with the inner dynamics, and virtually blind to the effects, they will get quite indignant if talk about them being just a "kinder and gentler" version of the folks they just replaced.

So let's give them their due.  If Bush was Hitler (conditional folks, no need to go all Godwin), then Obama is not Hitler.  He's Neville Chamberlin.  Which is not a whole lot of comfort, because all the rest of us are Checkoslovakia, and thanks to Obama's post-partisanWorld War approach to politics, Hitler is about to eat us for lunch.

This is the basic dilemma in a nutshell: In terms of broad philosophical traditions, conservatives are my-way-or-the-highway authoritarians who see politics and all its contents, including its compromises and negotiations as war.  OTOH, liberals are non-authoritarians who see politics and all its contents, including its compromises and negotiations as an alternative to war.  Because conservatives already see politics as war, they're really not all that concerned if things fall apart.  As an extreme example, the South was actually rather pleased to start killing Yankees at Fort Sumter. (They later called it the "War of Northern Aggression" in the sense that "it all started when he hit me back.")  So if one side doesn't care if negotiations break down--in fact, is rather eager for it, while the other side values negotiations highly, there's an inevitable, profound and pronounced bias in favor of those who value negotiation the least.  Call it "extortion"; call it "blackmail"; call it whatever you like; but it's not the sort of negotiation that liberals themselves claim to believe in.

At their best, liberals--under pressure from radicals--have their own set of principles that they're willing to stand up for, and this places certain limits on what they'll give away.  Indeed, at their very best, liberals believe in things like evidence, rationality, and the rule of law, which makes things very hard indeed on conservatives.  Neoliberals, however, are not liberals at their best (must less very best); they are liberals hollowed out of almost everything that liberals once believed in.  They are hollow men, who look on actual liberals with same sort of anger, resentment and guilty consciences that liberals have traditionally felt for radicals--abolitionists and the like.  In the end--a reductio absurdum plainly evident to everyone but themselves--the only thing left that they actually believe in is compromise itself.  And, of course, even that they're willing to compromise, if it comes to that.

Which is why neoliberalism looks like neoconservatism with a human face.  Which is why Obama is getting ready to send more troops to Afghanistan, why getting rid of contractors like Blackwater is not even remotely only the table, why holding torturers accountable is equally unthinkable, why Social Security and Medicare spending must be slashed, why military spending must continue going up, why Wall Street must be saved, why Main Street is forgotten, why Don Siegelman is still being prosecuted, and why Karl Rove is not, and on and on and on and on.

Which is why there's no way to delay that trouble comin' every day.

Paul Rosenberg :: Munich comin every day

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The Thanksgiving Chronicles (4.00 / 1)
DaveJ pretty much nailed it before he went back to his knitting. If you talked to your relatives over turkey, I'll bet you that you didn't get to talk turkey to any of them about the war, or the economy, or anything else. Mine, some of whom live in northeastern Oregon, near the Idaho border, wanted to talk about how the fucking stupid environmentalists were protecting the wolves who were eating up everybody's livelihood near where they live -- when they weren't talking NFL quarterbacks, that is -- and these are the ones with a wounded son headed back to Afghanistan for his third tour.

Typical, I'm afraid. If trouble is coming, these folks won't be able to deal with it until it gets to the front door -- and probably not even then. If they do manage, somehow, they'll probably favor Sarah Palin, 'cause she has the right idea about what to do with wolves.


The performative contradiction (4.00 / 2)
What goes on in the minds of Democrats in Congress that thwart desperately needed legislation? Legislation to reform the financial and medical industries. Legislation to advance human rights? What goes on in Obama's mind when he decides, over and over and over again, to deny evidence, to abandon rationality, and ignore the rule of law?

Politicians of this endless Reagan era have no principles except the principal of relativism that says there are no principles. Like Paul says, "the only thing left that they actually believe in, is compromise itself."

So we're left with a choice between Republicans that aren't stuck in the contradiction, and so can get things done, but they policies they advance are disastrous; and Democrats that, despite being stuck in the contradiction, actually begin with policies that have merit, but are fail to enact them.


To extend the 1938 analogy somewhat (4.00 / 2)
Hitler in 1938 and the Republicans today have in common that their actual power is absurdly weak compared to their blustering, which renders the paralysis and appeasement mentality of the vastly stronger West/Dems all the more inexplicable. (That is, if you're assuming they really disagree with the blusterer all that much.)

It's not at all clear that Germany could have won even a one-on-one war against Czechoslovakia, who had a large, well-equipped army and a well-fortified frontier, in 1938. So it seems that the Czechs psychologically caved in as well, that they weren't willing to fight even alone.

While that can only imperfectly extend the Czech-progressive parallel, since for now we don't have any way to directly fight the Reps on our own, at the very least it makes me think of the cave-in of the so-called "progressive block" (which on paper would seem to have been in a strong position, just like the Czechs), or how even the rank and file were so fast to sell out Van Jones.  

http://attempter.wordpress.com


Excellent Extension! (4.00 / 1)
And just to make the most of it, let me add another 2 cents: Although Checkoslavakia itself is a more difficult matter, for everyone else one reason they caved in 1938 was that Hitler would do a bit of dirty work for them.  I think the same is true today as well in our current situation.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
The Audacity of Anger (4.00 / 7)
Suddenly Jefferson Airplane echoes in  my head, from Wooden Ships:

Horror grips us as we watch you die,
All we can do is echo your anguished cries,
Stare as all human feelings die,
We are leaving - you don't need us.

I dodged your question over strategy for 2010 in our last exchange, because it's a matter of methodology, not tactics.  I believe that any strategy has to include from the git-go some sense of who is going to carry it out.  Otherwise, there is any number of good plans on paper that never happen.  I support your call for hegemonic infrastructure, truly.  But who is going to build it?  I think it is time to be drawing lines in the sand, a progressive litmus test, and hold to it with all our might.  How mean of me?  Yeah, but it's certainly working for the right.

Anyway, things are clearer now ("inspired" by Mike Lux's desperate paean to hope) so let me give it a rassle.

The shit is hitting the fan.  We are seeing pathetic pleas from liberals to stay on board, don't jump the party, fight to make it better, be realistic, don't get upset over "every little thing."  Why?  Because millions of progressives are feeling, I believe, what I'm feeling in my gut.  I'm sick, I'm outraged.  The sellout is total across the board.  AND at this moment I wouldn't lift a single finger, knock on a single door, make a single phone call, contribute a single penny, or piss on a single Democrat if they were on fire.  I just don't have it in me, I've got to look for other ways to express my beliefs.

Now I'm aware that it's dangerous to directly transform gut feelings into action, and I actually believe that there are some Democrats worth pissing on.  But what the pathetic liberals are seeing is that there is going to be a  massive fall-off of support in 2010, and pressure for Obama to move even more to the right in preparation for 2012.  I fear this in a somewhat different way.  The pathetic liberals want us to stay in the game, but play by their rules.  Otherwise, they really don't want us, they would rather we drop away, because they at least maintain their positions and irresponsible radicals won't make things hard for them.

There's a phenomenon I've seen in many groups over 40 years of activism.  A group is controlled by those who are in cahoots with authority.  Half the group wants something stronger, more radical.  But the hacks are sustained by their authority and the radicals drop away in ones and twos in disgust, and finally the hacks are left with only themselves, the group is gutted and impotent.  But the hacks are quite content, because they hold their positions.

Applied to this moment, we have to accept that progressives are jumping ship, or at least are not going to be "manning" the oars in the next two years.  As much as I share their rage, disappointment and pain, I can't support that.  And I can't blame them.

Gregg Levin wrote in firedoglake:

I find cynicism just plain selfish. You might be lucky enough to have a ball that you are just going to take and go home, and maybe you can afford to do that, but I don't think that absolves you of responsibility for what happens.

No, you can't attack people who have been beating their heads against a wall for years and years and can't take it any more.  Levine says, "If you want a Medicare-for-all bill, go out and organize for it."  Yeah, you smirking bastard.  Thanks for your permission.  And where are you as someone with a voice on a major blog?  Maybe the best I have at my disposal is to let the Democrats drown.

As I said above, any strategy has to take account of who is going to carry it out.  I think the people who have to carry out progressive change are those who are starting to walk away in disgust.  I don't think they can be organized by clever tactics and plans.  I support your call for hegemonic infrastructure, truly.  But who is going to build it?

My comment titled, "What is called for here is blind unreasoning rage" got 11 recommends (including yours).  No, I don't believe in either blind or unreasoning anything.  But it has a gut appeal for cutting through the bullshit.  The pathetic liberals love to pose us a series of either/or choices, Democratic or Republican, pathetic small reform or nothing, on and on.  But what has to be challenged is their entire framework.  It doesn't mean abandoning the Democratic Party.  They'd be happy with that.  It means staying, and staying angry.  Staying passionate.  Instead of them picking us off one by one, we start picking them off one by one.  And their "Isn't Senator or Congressman xyz better than Republican abc?" be damned.

They are more vulnerable than they let on.  55,000 U.S. troops were killed in Vietnam (2 million Asians of course don't count), yet they were extraordinarily sensitive to 4,000 being killed in Iraq (of course 1 million Iraqis don't count).  The one thing they have done is extend unemployment benefits.  Because they are decent souls?  Compassion for the poor?  No.  Fear.

Their strength is partially an illusion.  But it's the pathetic liberals who are the ones striking fear in us.  How to gather the disaffected?  I wish I had easy answers, but first we have to agree that this is the question.


I love that song. (4.00 / 1)
And it's astounding how up to date this still is. In the 60s, the Airplane certainly thought the US of the 21st century would be totally different. They wrote their lyrics in a time where a new generation thought that standing up for change would lead to reforms. Just like the Obama crowd of 2008. But once again it's true: Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

However, let's not forget the spirit of the 60s. It wasn't a single year outrage! And if all the hunger for change from 2008 could be funneled into an outcry for change in 2009, with widespread efforts to unseat the ineffective and ignorant establishement, victory is still possible. There's still some time to prepare for a battle about the nominations, right? So, let's not forget that other Jefferson Airplane song, also still as fresh as it was in '69:

Look what's happening out in the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Hey I'm dancing down the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Ain't it amazing all the people I meet
Got a revolution Got to revolution
One generation got old
One generation got sold
This generation got no destination to hold
Pick up the cry
Hey now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Come on now we're marching to the sea
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Who will take it from you
We will and who are we
We are volunteers of America

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V...

And remember, the Airplane published this after RFK and MLK hzad already been killed. The may have been dopeheads, they may have not been serious enough for the political pundits of their time, but they sure were no surrendermonkeys!

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter


[ Parent ]
I prefer Blows Against the Empire (4.00 / 1)
Not an "Airplane" effort, per se, more like JeffAir +.

Mau - Mau, I think summarizes my initial reaction to entrenched powers, which ever political label they affix to themselves.

This bit sums up an attitude with which I can identify:


HEY DICK

Whatever you think of us is totally irrelevant

Both to us now and to you

We are the present

We are the future

You are the past

Pay your dues and get outta the way

`Cause we`re not the way you used to be

When you were very young

We`re something new

We don`t quite know what it is

Or particularly care

We just do it - You gotta do it

Open your eyes there`s a new world a-comin`

All frustration, anger and angst.

Sometimes, Gray,the "dopeheads" see around corners. Imagine. That's Blows Against the Empire .  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
2,000 years (4.00 / 1)
2,000 years
2,000 years
2,000 years of your goddam glory!

[ Parent ]
Ballad of the Chrome Nun (0.00 / 0)
Wonder why no one seems to write songs like these any more?

Oh well, at least someone did, once opon a time:

You unleash the dogs

of a grade-B movie star governor`s war

While you sit in the dark -

insane with the fear of dying




"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
My favorites from this are "sketches of china"... (0.00 / 0)
..and "harp tree lament". And I like it better than "blows...", I'm afraid. But as a German, I have problems following the text in real time, and so the music is more important to me as the lyrics...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
I have a similar "argument" with my wife at times (4.00 / 1)
I mean, about the role of lyrics in rock and roll. Like you, english is her second (maybe third) language, so she has a very hard time following the lyrics in most songs. She claims that one can "get the full meaning" by focusing on the music. I disagree. Generally I cite the band XTC as an example. As epitomized on the album "Oranges and Lemons", they aimed to take punk lyrics and dress them up in tunes with jangly, pop-music melodies. Thus, the lyrics and music are somewhat opposed to each other.

The music is the syringe and the lyrics the drug, delivered deftly to your neural network.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Just out of curiosity, Spitty... (0.00 / 0)
..where does your better half come from? Uh, you don't have to answer if this is to personal, of course....

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
My wife was born and raised in Istanbul (0.00 / 0)
Went to the "German High School" and so learned German in her youth. She also attended University in Istanbul and learned English at that time. Then she moved to the US for post-graduate work, we met, and now she's a citizen of the US.

Me? I was born on the northside of Chicago, IL, raised near Detroit, MI, then became an "educational gypsy" and moved around through IL, NY, and MN.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Wow! The world has really become a small place. (4.00 / 1)
Growing up so far apart, and still meeting one fine day. This would have hardly been possible some decades ago. An inspiring sign that mankind may be able to overcome everything that keeps us apart...

Btw:

We can be together
We will be
We must begin here and now
A new continent of earth and fire
Come on now gettin higher and higher
Tear down the walls
Tear down the walls
Tear down the walls
Won't you try

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/j...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Btw, the most romantic song coming from the JA "family"... (0.00 / 0)
...is, imho, "Genesis" from the "Quah" album of Hot Tuna (Jorma Kaukonnen and Jack Cassidy):

The time has come for us to pause,
And think of living as it was,
Into the future we must cross,
Must cross,
I'd like to go with you,
I'd like to go with you,

You say I'm harder than a wall,
A marble shaft about to fall,
I love you dearer than them all,
Them all,
So let me stay with you,
So let me stay with you,

And as we walked into the day,
Skies of blue had turned to gray,
I might have not been clear to say,
To say,
I never looked away,
I never looked away,

And though I'm feelin' you inside,
My life is rolling with the tide,
I'd like to see it be an open ride,
Goin' along with you,
Goin' along with you,

The time we borrowed from ourselves,
Can't stay within a vault to dwell,
When living turns into a lender's will,
I'd like to be with you,
I'd like to be with you,

And as we came out into view,
And there I found myself with you,
When breathing felt like something new,
..thing new,
Goin' along with you,
Yeah, goin' along with you.

Do you know it?

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter


[ Parent ]
That song was played at my first wedding (0.00 / 0)
not to the woman described above, however.

My first wife was killed in an automobile accident in 1992.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Oh, damn, I'm so sorry Spitball. (0.00 / 0)
I hope I didn't bring up sad memories by mentioning that song...
:-(

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
No problem, Gray (4.00 / 1)
It was a long time ago and I've come to accept it.

Wouldn't have brought it up otherwise.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
What happened to "Targetting Dems in 2010"? (4.00 / 3)
Was it just talk, or are you going to follow through? And what the heck happened to Accountability Now? Do you know?

Except for Illinois, it's not too late for a candidate for the 2010 elections to file. Please see my diary
Congressional Filing Deadline & Primary Calendar - It's Not Too Late.

DemocracyABC.org
TheRealNews.Com
http://www.pdamerica.org


Excellent question! (0.00 / 0)
An old suggestion of mine was to draw up a list of principles or points (single-payer, out of Iraq and Afghanistan, uncompromising support for abortion rights, strengthen the social safety net, for instance).

Then file for every single congressional primary in the country, and ask the incumbent Democrat or official challenger in Republican districts whether she or he supported those points.  If yes, our person filing would not campaign, and if no, then she or he would to the extent possible.

But even if everyone in OpenLeft believed this was a stroke of genius, how would it happen?  What minimal organizational vehicle would be required?  That's what I'm trying to rassle with.


[ Parent ]
I like your enthusiasm, but I think this is over-kill (4.00 / 1)
I mean, additional primary filing deadlines are coming up in January and February. OK, if a rich dude, who cared about democracy, stepped in today with millions of $$ at the ready, and spent whatever resources it took to dig up a few hundred credible individuals within the next couple weeks, and hired a small army of people to get the required signatures in each and every district, then something could happen (?) even by the January filing date. But, I don't think that's likely.

It's too late to organize a sweeping "throw the bums out" effort. The idea is more to a) demonstrate a proof of concept and b) at least throw a couple of the bums out. Once of the concepts being proven is that like-minded voters in various states can successfully collaborate - via guerrilla candidates*, guerrilla campaign workers, creative fund-raising, creative campaigning strategies that leverage enthusiasm to overcome more limited $$. But that collaboration needs to be intelligently managed, so as to get the maximum electoral bang for the buck.

If that means getting only a single Congress critter incumbent primaried in 2010, then so be it. It'd be much better to be able to point to a solid victory, than hundreds of incidences of 'also ran when we could scrounge up a candidate on such short notice'.

It's making me a little ill to keep reading comments at Democratic Underground and Huffington Post, along the lines of "we need to primary that lousy Democrat!", and no active, discernible effort to do so in an organized fashion (that doesn't waste resources) is mentioned. What a waste of energy! The Democrats have been disappointing, big time, since at least 2006. It's just mind-boggling that there's not already a more organized process for firing the worst of the worst Congress critters every 2 years.

A successful proof of concept in 2010, especially getting a Senator replaced - could set the stage for a nation-wide effort of the scope that you are thinking of, in 2012. in 2010, such a process could be crude, even if that's not desirable.

* actually, that's another potential fly in the ointment; residency requirements may make it too late for guerilla candidates

DemocracyABC.org
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http://www.pdamerica.org


[ Parent ]
I'm all in favor of over-kill (4.00 / 1)
You raise some good practical points.  We can't just "do it!"  There has to be an organization in place before it can happen.  Yes, 2010 is too soon to actually "do it."  But it's not too late yet to begin such an organization around a solid litmus test.  Call it infrastructure.  The point of the tactic at this point is to show what could be done.

You mention credible candidates.  "Credible" is one of the traps that has kept us in place.  Fact is, Democrats hate any primary challenge, it complicates their dreary lives.  In some cases, it may only end up as a footnote, in others it may succeed unexpectedly as other forces find it a rallying point.  Remember, many of the successful insurgents in 2006 weren't deemed credible either.

A bit of kamikaze mentality would do us good.  Especially as at this time the price of losing an election isn't death.


[ Parent ]
Armando @ Talk Left (4.00 / 4)
Spent a great deal of timing discussing the "Mad Man' Theory of negotiation. His thesis is that if you are not willing to be perceived as willing to torpedo the whole deal, no one will take you seriously because they know you will eventually compromise. My first mentor would say that if you do not have a point of no in a negotiation you already have lost it for client. Conservatives consistently win because they are willing to burn the house down. We are not.

[ Parent ]
History has shown time and again that the madman strategy works. (4.00 / 1)
And I totally agree that playing reasonable isn't always the most efficient way to reach the best possible outcome. Just look at the teabaggers - they act like total nutcases, and many of them certainly are, but the threat they constitute mekes their party take them for serious. What could be achieved if progressives would show a similar rage? Silently resigning and only stating to pollsters not to vote in 2010 obviously doesn't have the same impact.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
by the way (4.00 / 4)
the result of the two sides coming to the table with a different tolerance to torpedo a deal is that the extremism of the right wins and we move further and further right. What some here define as "reasonable" leads to an unreasonable end. Once we were triangulating with conservatives, then ultra conservatives and now plutocrats. The lesson there is can not triangulate or "understand the other side" your way out of this. At some point you will either have a line in the sand or not.

[ Parent ]
I'm in favor of 1) Targetted kill 2) over-kill 3) mostly despairing, complaining and analysis-paralysis (4.00 / 1)
[ Parent ]
I wasn't ceding the definition of "credible" to the Democratic Party (0.00 / 0)
Instead, I was referring mostly to the practical needs of raising $$, getting volunteers, hiring a staff, etc.

I suppose I should have written "credibly supported" or "credibly funded".

There's also another relevant aspect of "credible" that has to do with integrity and trust. A credible candidate will be one who has spent the last 10+ years fighting for the issues that he/she is now going to campaign on. If most of their positions are flip-flops, or if the candidate has no government or activist experience, then their commitment to their new positions will lack credibility.

DemocracyABC.org
TheRealNews.Com
http://www.pdamerica.org


[ Parent ]
Here's an example of why a 'targetted kill' (i.e., organized primary) process would save voters (0.00 / 0)
I.e., it would save them from "3) mostly despairing, complaining and analysis-paralysis"

In Losing My Religion, it's clear that some life-long voters (in this case, a life-long Democrat) are thinking of abandoning voting, period. Nobody jumped into this particular thread with "let's primary some Democratic bozo!", but if they had, it would have been mostly an idle threat. (AFAICT)


My folks were kids during the Depression, they never forgot what FDR accomplished for families like theirs. My maternal grandfather was put to work through the WPA, which saved his family from near starvation. My paternal grandparents were able to save their modest farm because of FDR policies.

In my extended family -- grandparents, aunts and uncles, great aunts and great uncles, second cousins, etc. -- anyone not voting for Democrats would have been shunned and disowned. I grew up fully invested in the family faith: the Democratic party was on our side, Republicans were the enemy.

So, from the time I was old enough to vote, I faithfully voted for Democrats every single election, local and national -- and I never missed an election. I never once entertained a single thought of ever doing otherwise. I proudly proclaimed myself a liberal decade after decade, without hesitation or equivocation, no matter how much liberalism was being maligned. Throughout my 20s and 30s, when I moved around a lot and lived in a number of different states, I always made sure I was registered to vote wherever I was living at the time, and faithfully showed up on every election day to vote for Democrats.

I find it extremely insulting to see people blaming my current disaffection, and the disaffection of others like me, on some sort of stealth Republicanism. My disaffection arose during the Clinton administration, watching atrocities like NAFTA and banking deregulation and Plan Columbia being pushed and championed.
.
.
I think electoral politics is a sham. I don't think I'll bother voting anymore, or I'll vote third party.

(emphasis mine)

DemocracyABC.org
TheRealNews.Com
http://www.pdamerica.org


[ Parent ]
Allow me to clarify. (0.00 / 0)
the practical needs of raising $$, getting volunteers, hiring a staff, etc.

Actually, what you mean to be credible is reliable and electable.  Your framework seems to hinge on winning seats.  Mine is not.

The national Committee for a Progressive Congress (I just made up the name) would agree on the following points:

o  Troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq.
o  Absolutely pro-choice on abortion rights.
o  No more bailouts of Wall Street.
o  Regulate Wall Street to the max.
o  Create a fund to save families from foreclosures.
o  Tax the rich to deal with the deficit.
o  Rebuild and strengthen the social safety net.

For example.  The points would be determined by the CPC and not be negotiable at the local level.

The criteria for a CPC candidate would be that she/he support ALL the points, and be willing to meet the filing requirements, including filing fee and/or signatures.  The fees are not large, nor are the signature requirements, and the CPC could hopefully give some support here.

Period.

While any CPC candidate could run a full-fledged campaign with the intent to win the seat, a minimal candidate could:

o  Ask the other candidates if they will actively support the CPC points.
o  If they do, the CPC candidate could simply endorse that candidate, or the best of those candidates (if such is the case) and campaign actively for their endorsee or not as the CPC candidate sees fit.
o  If that candidate betrays the points, the CPC candidate would have the option of campaigning more aggressively.

If no other candidate supports the CPC points, the CPC candidate could minimally:

o  Talk to the local press.
o  Appear at candidate nights if any group sponsors them.

This requires no money at all, just a willingness to make some phone calls and show up.  If the CPC candidate wanted to do more and could do more, that would be excellent.  But not required.

There are standard arguments against such "symbolic" races, but those standard arguments are based on their impact seen in strictly local terms.  And rightly so, if such races were an isolated phenomenon.  But if carried out in 435 districts, the impact would be powerful at a national level.

At the local level, the party hack candidate could shrug it off, but the national party pays attention to these things, and if they saw challenges in every district, they would respond.  First there would be the hysterical denunciations from even the responsible progressives.  That would open up the NATIONAL dialogue on the sellout of the party and then we would be in business.  We would be news.  We would scare them.

Why?  Because of the huge disparity between the Democratic base and their representatives.

Nor would it necessarily conflict with others who are targeting individual sellout Democrats.  All they have to do is endorse the points.

I have no doubt whatsoever that this would work.  So cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel.


[ Parent ]
Not Dropped (4.00 / 1)
I'll be writing more about it soon.

But thanks for needling me.  

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
:-) (0.00 / 0)
Hey! No problem!

Do you or anybody else have any suggestions for somebody who can handle creating a funding portal that obeys relevant laws, and will allow for people putting their money in escrow until that magic moment arrives that their 2010 voting bloc narrows down their choices of who to fund, so that they can release the $$ to their campaigns? Does anybody know if ActBlue can handle such an account for a progressive voting bloc?

I know next to nothing about campaign finance laws....


DemocracyABC.org
TheRealNews.Com
http://www.pdamerica.org


[ Parent ]
Good point about negotiation dynamic (0.00 / 0)
ANother advantage conservatives have in negotiations is their preference that the "market" resolve society's issues and problems.  We all know the market is biased towards those that control its major institutions, and conservatives are content to sit on their hands while the liberals try to address society's problems.  Its not that we disagree about what to do, its that they want to do nothing, and thereby let the biased market perpetually reward their political supporters (at least the rich anyway).  Our system of govt requires consensus so to get conservatives to come along, their has to be a considerable amount of concessions on behalf of liberals to get to the 60 vote threshold.  

In Theory, Perhaps (0.00 / 0)
But those with the power will never just let the market do its thing.  They'll always have their hands out for more.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
not to be actually counting, but ... (4.00 / 1)
Have you noticed that the  go-along  keep-the-faith  don't-bum-us-out-with-facts  crowd has been out in much greater force lately?

If things are so great, why are they so worried?


By my count (0.00 / 0)
there are two people taking dissenting positions in this diary, and about 10-12 nodding in agreement with Paul. Which is the crowd again? Is there some other crowd I'm not aware of, hold on let me check the quick hits....

Nope, all negative news stories about Obama, just like Republican unity!



[ Parent ]
no they are consistently around various blogs (4.00 / 2)
mostly talking out of both sides of their mouths. I had this convo with Meteor Blades at daily kos. There was one recommended diarist in which the diarist had  several weeks or a month or two before sworn that the White House did not support the Baucus bill, but was at the time of the convo with Meteor Blades, arguing the exact opposite. They are basically the say anything online to win the conversation crowd. You can find them at mydd and daily kos. They may have only recently appeared here , but they have been doing this since Jan 2009.  Glenn Greenwald amongst others have noted the behavior. At some point, you have to realize their goal is to attack, attack, attack to see what sticks no matter how contradictory or just plain false because truth is not their motivation. For instance, throwing out terms like strawman where it has no relationship to a response to them or accusing others of behaviors for which they are guilt,etc.  

[ Parent ]
Well, Our Latest Arrival Was Just Banned (4.00 / 2)
He was just too transparent, and too damn boring.

Unfortunately, I seem to have done something wrong & deleted his comments, not just banned him.  I thought I had to check an extra box to do that, and I never do.  Did I have a momentary blackout?  Is it T-day fatigue finally setting in?  Who knows?

All I know is that folks who really don't want to be here should just leave, rather than bellyaching constantly about how all we do is bellyache... when that's not even true.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Ah.... (0.00 / 0)
I'd suspected as much. Thanks for the clarification. I, too, lose patience with the bright-eyed and bushy-tailed who arrive here all out of breath and bent on putting you in your place. Which, of course, they can only do by attacking what you might have written had you been been the boogey-man they've all been looking for.

As Camus once said, you're never executed for the crime you've actually committed -- the only real crime is being insufficiently like the others. My advice: ban them while you can, and otherwise be sure to weep at your mother's funeral.


[ Parent ]
Well, (0.00 / 0)
Part of it just comes with the territory, and I've put up with much worse in the past.  But this one was just sooo brainless and boring.  And it was catching, apparently!

I'm still hoping there's a way to undo it--seeing the number of comments listed makes me think there should be.  There's a button I didn't click that removes the comments from the database, so they're still there, somewhere, if only the proper pointers can be retrieved or regenerated...

Sigh!

I so wish that I could blame this on tryptophan!


"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I'm not sure if you're banning me here (0.00 / 0)
since my comments have been deleted, but please don't. I promise not to post in your diaries anymore, and that promise should be enough since it's only in your diaries there are ever any conflicts. I want to be continue being a part of the Open Left community, because I consider myself progressive, so I just ask you to please leave my account alone for now. Thanks.  

[ Parent ]
No, I'm Not Banning You (0.00 / 0)
My comments were deleted, too.

I put you in the category of borderline troll.  It's against my principles to ban a borderline troll.  The bannee was an over-the-borderline troll, IMHO.  If Chris or Mike wanted to restore him, then fine.  But from my POV he was intentionally disruptive, and only likely to become moreso.

You are intellectually dishonest a good deal of the time, but it's always best to have at least one or two folks like you around, because unless it's at least somewhat annoying here, we're doing something wrong.

Of course, it's better when the ones who are annoying actually contribute something positive as well.  But such is life.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Well my main issue with banning is that you can (0.00 / 0)
catch the good with the bad. Some people as long as they can back it up may have legitimate disagreement.

George to me was the bad because, if I remember the screen name correctly, after I directly responded to his claim that people were not offering solutions by pointing out that bloggers indeed were offering solutions, he claimed that offering solutions was a straw man argument to his point that people were just complaining rather than offering solutions. That kind of poster is not looking to do much more than tie everyone up in argument circles with win-at-all-costs rhetoric.

The comparisons that I gave in the thread was to a recent conversation over at Daily Kos that I had with Meteor Blade agreeing with me about the talking out of both sides of their mouth bloggers (in that case someone claiming both that the administration was not for the Baucus when it seemed to advantage Obama, but that the administration was for the Baucus bill when they thought it advantaged Obama) and Gleen Greenwald discussing those who were for the release of torture photos when Obama was for it, and against it when Obama was against it.  That to me is the most obvious example.

Then you just others who are misguided who seem to think they are unofficial advisors to DC politicians, but I am not sure if those people are arguing in bad faith, and I am not sure how useful it is to ignore them unless the whole "I know the politics really works and you should all fall into line" shtick becomes distracting.

These sorts of interactions go no where because they are meant to shut down debates rather than communicate a valid difference of opinion. The problem is trying to figure out who is commenting with this sort of bad faith in mind and who is not. I find that difficult.


[ Parent ]
A technical question (0.00 / 0)
I've been away from the thread for 3 or 4 hours. In checking back, I notice that there are supposed to be 54 comments, but I can only see 16. Did something happen at OpenLeft, or has something gone screwy with my browser?

Civil War (0.00 / 0)
Paul said:
"This is the basic dilemma in a nutshell: In terms of broad philosophical traditions, conservatives are my-way-or-the-highway authoritarians who see politics and all its contents, including its compromises and negotiations as war.  OTOH, liberals are non-authoritarians who see politics and all its contents, including its compromises and negotiations as an alternative to war.  Because conservatives already see politics as war, they're really not all that concerned if things fall apart. As an extreme example, the South was actually rather pleased to start killing Yankees at Fort Sumter. (They later called it the "War of Northern Aggression" in the sense that "it all started when he hit me back.")  So if one side doesn't care if negotiations break down--in fact, is rather eager for it, while the other side values negotiations highly, there's an inevitable, profound and pronounced bias in favor of those who value negotiation the least.  Call it "extortion"; call it "blackmail"; call it whatever you like; but it's not the sort of negotiation that liberals themselves claim to believe in."

As I understand it, you are equating/painting the South as conservative (because they embraced slavery) and the North as liberal (because they opposed slavery). I must confess my disappointment at such a convenient and simplisitic interpretation, especially since it is the product of liberal thinking - where intellect is supposed to override emotion; where, as you say, "evidence" and reason are used to foster understanding. Paul, lets pierce the myth, peel back the onion, explore and investigate our Great National Myth known as the "Civil War fought to end slavery".
Lincoln said the war "was somehow about slavery". But it was not about the morality of slavery except for a few radical abolitionists in the North where African Americans suffered worse conditions than slaves (property) in the South. The war was about slavery mostly because of the "federal ratio" - as the nation expanded westward the balance of the "original thriteen" created at the Constitutional Convention was threatened. The North drew the line in the sand - it is the Republican Party with free soil racist ideology firmly in its DNA - that threatened continued negotiation and compromise, refused to allow slavery or blacks in the new territories - and "desired" war with the "slave power". Once in office, their first legislation was Hamiltonian in nature - a transcontinental railroad, new tariffs and a new national bank act. Jeffersonian Republicanism - the father of our Democratic Party and liberalism in America - was expressed in the agarian South that opposed Hamilton's nationalism, including commerce and the speculative nature of the carry-trade and banking. This was the real purpose of the Civil War - not to defeat slavery, but to defeat the slave power that opposed Hamilton's vigorous nationalism, including commerce and the speculative nature of the carry-trade and banking intertest - what Southerners regarded as the "aggressive acquisitiveness" of Northern Capitalists intent on empire. That empire could be had only by patience as slavery withered on the vine, or more immediately if the Great Compromise of the Constitutional Convention - the federal ratio counting slaves as 3/5ths a person in configuring representation in Congress and the electoral college - were undone. And war was the choice of impatience.
So, were there conservative "fire eaters" in the South intent on preserving their way of life, including the barbaric enslavement of other human beings? Sure. But authoritarian conservatives of the Republican Party -  the racist free soil party of the North - were just as ready and willing to force war on the South not because of the immorality of slavery but to destroy the power (and the advantage) given the South by their ownership of slaves - the federal ratio - the "slave power".  Remember, the South only seceeded while the industrialized, more populous and powerful North started a war to keep Union - and empire - together. (And, of course, the notion of secession was not original to the South - the Essex Junto, the Hartford Convention, etc.)


You add an important piece to the story (0.00 / 0)
But do not negate the fierce passion of the northern volunteers who died by the thousands in battle after battle so men could be free.

[ Parent ]
So that white men could be free? (0.00 / 0)
Free Soil ideology - the mother of the Republican Party - didn't care about what slavery (i.e., "slave power") did to blacks, only what it threatened to do to whites. That was the propaganda of the day. The moral objectors (the abolitionists) to slavery were few and were considered fanatical and dangerous boat rockers. One needs only look at the condition of blacks in the almost century and a half since the war for their "freedom" was fought. By virtue of a backroom deal for the presidency in 1877, southern Democrats were fully redeemed and with them came Jim Crow slavery. And the North practiced its own version of what Paul might call "southern racist horseshit".

Allow me to return your question: do we negate the fierce passion of today's volunteer army that dies in battle so Iraqi's and Afghani's can be free? I like the analogy. Paul's emotional response to my "Civil War" entry misses the point I hoped to make - that the same forces partly responsible for the Civil War are the same forces of nationalism responsible for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. All wars are lies, including our own "Civil War fought to end slavery". And it was probably conservative Southern political elites and conservative Northern political elites that decided war was necessary to resolve their political differences at the cost of 618,000 lives. The point that Jeffersonian ideals of democracy were rooted in the agrarianism of the South does not excuse slavery; it only sheds light on the North's Hamiltonian ideals of empire.

As for the notion that all wars are lies, I would ask Paul if the cold hard fact that Japan attaced us at Pearl Harbor excuses, in a historical context, US tactics designed to make that very thing to happen. Ditto the Gulf of Tonkin incident, or Polk's claim that Mexico crossed into American territory and started a war that gave us California and much of the southwest. War is business, and the North was better at the business of war than the South.


[ Parent ]
Southern Racist HORSESHIT! (0.00 / 0)
Remember, the South only seceeded while the industrialized, more populous and powerful North started a war to keep Union - and empire - together.

The South made war on the Union when it fired on Fort Sumter.

There is no convoluted theory here.  Only cold, hard, historical fact.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I agree (0.00 / 0)
Social upheavals generally feature the interests of an emerging ascendant class won through mass democratic fervor, with the new rulers then crushing the aspirations of the masses once opportune and bringing back parts of the old regime as hatchetpeople.  Thus I thought his post of worth in pointing out the capitalist interests.

His response to my post, however, confirms your assessment that he was spewing Southern Racist HORSESHIT!


[ Parent ]
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