House health reform vote counting overview

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Mar 05, 2010 at 16:15


The current step in the health reform sausage factory involves finding enough votes for the House to pass the Senate health reform bill and then, a few days later, a budget reconciliation "fix" to that health reform bill (see my post from earlier today for a more detailed overview of the process, and where the public option fits into that process).

Rounding up the votes in the House is proving difficult, with few public successes.  Here are the recent developments (more in the extended entry):

Chris Bowers :: House health reform vote counting overview
  • Massa cancels out Deal, 216 needed for passage.  Two days ago, Democrats only needed 216 votes to pass the House, and 217 members of the House had voted for health reform in November:

    1. House passed health reform 220-215 in November. Link to November results

    2. Since November, three members who voted for health reform have left the House:  Neil Abercrombie, Jack Murtha (RIP), and Robert Wexler.  Additionally, one member, who voted against health reform, Nathan Deal, will leave the House next week.

    However, Deal has now reversed course, and will stay in the House until after the health reform vote.  

    But, just this afternoon, it was announced that Eric Massa, an opponent of the health reform bill, will resign on Monday.  So, Massa cancels out Deal, and only 216 votes are needed for passage after all.

    This means 216 votes are needed for passage, with the November composition being 217 in favor, 214 opposed.

  • Bart Gordon becomes a "yes," cancelling out Mike Arcuri.  Representative Bart Gordon, who voted against the health reform bill in November, seems like a "yes" vote now.  However, all this does is cancel out Representative Mike Arcuri, who was a yes in November but seems like a "no" now.  So, we are still at 217-214.

  • Progressives shoring up.  The only two members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus to vote against the health reform bill in November were Dennis Kucinich and Eric Massa.  Kucinich is steadfast in his opposition, but with Massa retiring it looks like Kucinich will be the sole "nay" vote now.  As of yesterday, three current and former Progressive Caucus co-chairs sounded like they would all vote for the bill.

  • Stupak bloc to be pacified?  The main obstacle to passing the health reform bill is now Bart Stupak's bloc of members who voted for the bill in November, but refuse to do so again unless their restrictive reproductive rights language is added to the bill.  Reports usually put this group of members at "roughly a dozen,", while I have identified at least seven, and possibly seventeen, members who are part of Stupak's bloc.

    One possible solution to this impasse is emerging.  Stupak, and his bloc, may be open to voting for the health reform bill if they get a vote on a separate piece of legislation that would retroactively impose his restrictive language on the health reform bill.  Details are still murky, but David Dayen has the relevant questions on how this would work:

    1) Would the President agree to delay signing of the final bill until the Stupak standalone bill gets a vote? Presumably Stupak would want such a guarantee.

    2) Similarly, would the Senate be bound by such an agreement to put the amendment up to a standalone vote? Or is this just a House deal?

    3) If the vote fails in either the House or the Senate, would that be it for health reform? Is this a promise of a future vote rather than a promise not to sign health care into law unless this passes?

    4) What would Republicans do, in both the House and the Senate? In the House, all of them fell in line and agreed to the amendment back in November. In the Senate, all but Collins and Snowe agreed on the vote, which ultimately failed. But if health care rides on Republicans taking this vote, would they vote for it themselves, or would they rather put pro-choice Democrats in the excruciating position of having to vote for an abortion coverage ban in order to get health care through?

    5) If Republicans refuse to play along, would Democrats whip the vote?

    All good questions. Currently, they have no answer.

  • If no agreement can be reached with Stupak, can health reform pass anyway?  If no agreement with Stupak's bloc can be reached, then the other path to passing health reform through the House would be to round up an equal number of "nay" votes on the November bill to vote "yes" on the Senate bill.  In addition to Bart Gordon, twelve other November "no" votes publically wavering now: Altmire (PA-04), Baird (WA-03); Boucher (VA-09); Boyd (FL-02); Kosmas (FL-24); Markey (CO-04); McMahon (NY-13); Minnick (ID-01); S. Murphy (NY-20); Glen Nye (VA-02); Ross (AR-04); Tanner (TN-08).

    If the Stupak bloc really does have twelve members, then all but one of those votes would be needed to pass the Senate health reform bill through the House.

All of this adds up to what strike me as pretty long odds.  For a different view, both Intrade and Nate Silver both put the odds at just over 50%. No matter what happens, it is going to be very tight.  The margin is, at most, a dozen votes in either direction.

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Chris, do you think Nancy will not let it come to a vote until (0.00 / 0)
she's 100% certain she has the votes?

Would you make a deal with Stupak (0.00 / 0)
And give him a separate vote on a standalone bill and support an up-and-down vote on it in the Senate if it passes the House?

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

Up or down (0.00 / 0)
The Stupak language can't be passed via reconciliation, so an "up or down" vote in the Senate isn't currently possible.  I don't see him getting 60 votes.

[ Parent ]
I'm not talking via reconciliation (0.00 / 0)
I'm talking about cutting a deal that involves Senate Democrats agreeing not to filibuster a completely separate bill dealing only with abortion, with the understanding that Republicans filibustering the bill won't kill the deal.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
Can stupak even get 51 votes? (0.00 / 0)
All Republicans (probably unlikely anyway) + Casey + Reid + Lieberman (doubtful, but possible, given the 'rape gurney' thing) + Specter? + Nelson (N) = 46.  Who are the other five that would even fathom voting for such an anti-choice disaster?  

I would assume Biden would be a no if it came to a tiebreaker, so it would need to be 51.  


[ Parent ]
hit 'post' too soon (0.00 / 0)
I assume Blanche Lincoln, Nelson (FL) and Mary Landrieu might be pulled off, though I"m not particularly sure about Nelson, really.  And even counting them, it still comes up short.  With even the slightest whipping, I don't see how a stupak thing in the senate gets to 51, particularly when the maine senators are ostensibly pro-choice.  

[ Parent ]
Just want to point out one other thing (4.00 / 4)
Dayen updated his post to say:

Just one other thing on this: how come 12 Democrats can force a standalone vote taking away reproductive rights, but 12, or 20, or 100-plus at last count, cannot force a vote on the public option, with the same tactic? Because one group is credibly willing to walk away from the table and ditch health care altogether, while the other is not.

I think Stupak's threat has teeth because his bloc includes several members (including himself) who would normally be strong supporters of health care reform.  It would be easy to disregard his threats if he were a Blue Dog, but he's not, and that's what makes him so difficult.  He represents votes that can be legitimately won but can't be bribed on other stuff.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


Pelosi's the only reason it's 50-50 (4.00 / 2)
Whatever her other faults (she's generally a communications disaster), Pelosi is superb at cobbling together votes. If we had a real, effective and feared President, the White House would be good for at least 10 votes. Sadly, Rahmbo the enforcer isn't and no-drama Obama won't...

Objectively, just on the state of play as described above it looks more like 40-60.

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans


Rahm's been great at whipping votes on things he cares about (0.00 / 0)
see: the bailouts.  

He just doesn't care about improving the HC bill.  


[ Parent ]
Summing up situation perfectly: (4.00 / 3)
"In terms of progressive activists, it is clear that they have been completely rolled in this process and were given absolutely nothing. The good parts of the bill (Medicaid expansion, theoretically, the better regulations, though I have no confidence in the enforcement mechanisms) were not controversial and should not be seen as concessions to progressives. Indeed, I expect they would be passed separately if the Senate bill fails. In short, progressives got nothing in the political bargaining.

In my view, they should not lift a finger to get these bills passed. If progressives EVER want to wield even a smidgen of influence, they have to be prepared to sit on the sidelines if they do not get what they want. Let the winners in this bill do the work for getting it passed. It's their bill after all. Not progressives."

http://www.talkleft.com/story/...

Yet, what are progressive trying to bend over backwards to do. When you lose the next battle, and you will lose it, don't wonder why.



I won't advocate to Kill The Bill as one courageous man said... (0.00 / 0)
but I agree with you the progressives reps. not go along with ANYTHING that doesn't have the support of their respective constituents back home. Period - there's some reliable HCR polls out. To this point this effort has   sucked both ends into the center in order to acheive a"fair and more acceptable compromise reform bill.

I believe that the 1  courageous man that says Kill It!- if there's no PO-no true competition for private HC industry - will soon be joined by others to a point that this whole WHouse of cards finally falls.

Check out who just joined the Kill the bill campaign

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

the two ends may just come together for a different outcome....


[ Parent ]
Don't miss the most important paragragh in the story.... (0.00 / 0)

In a conference call organized by Goldman Sachs Global Investment Research, Steve Lewis, a highly regarded broker at the world's third largest insurance broker..

(snip)

legislation and the partisanship coming out of Washington as possibly the medicine worse than the disease. So, many employer groups that we're talking to feel like it would be a shame to lose an opportunity to do something with respect to health care reform. But many are starting to feel like maybe nothing is better than something in this current environment."


[ Parent ]
Look at who you are quoting (0.00 / 0)
Finally, the point is that the push by from liberals should be that this is not reform.  That whether the bill passes or not is irrelevant. The whole "not pass the bill" comment by you is typical talking points CW rhetoric. I never said what you said. But project that on to the post anyway. What I said was "regardless of what happens with the bill, don't own it. Let the centrist and conservatives own the bill" rather than play along.

[ Parent ]
Sorry to mistate tehe point. (0.00 / 0)
but I essentially agree with you as it relates to progressive reps. My point with the article is that there is doubt from many sides that the bill which WH has finally put out does lttle for real reform and infact may be worse than we have now for price competition, business stability, jobs, caregivers and patients. Who are the winners here? Is it worth all the effort. I agree we must find solid ground to build something better, this Senate Bill isn't that.


[ Parent ]
Too optimistic I'm afraid. (0.00 / 0)
I have looked at the dozen names you list as wavering and I think it is entirely too optimistic as far as the waverers are concerned.  Kratovil, McMahon and Minnick have all said they will vote no and according to the NY Times, Tanner has told colleagues there is no way in the world he is changing his vote.  Baird indicated to Salon, after the AP article that your list seems to be based on came out, that he was probably going to vote no as well.  And for someone who is supposedly wavering, Altmire's statements to Politico and other outlets have been unrelentingly negative in regards to both the bill and its chances of passage.  

I do agree entirely with your view on the passage of the bill. I think the odds are indeed long, and the actions of Steny Hoyer are confirmation of my suspicions, I believe.  Why in the world would the Dem leadership be discussing a way to pass Stupak's absolutely insane bill if they weren't desperate for votes? In more depressing news  concerning Stupak, Ed Schultz stated in an interview with David Shuster that he is hearing the "Stupak bloc" is growing. This clown has to be stopped.  


Tanner and Baird will vote for the bill (0.00 / 0)
They are both not running for reelection and will not have to face the voters.  If Nancy Pelosi has to lock them both in a room and put them through Chinese water torture, they will vote for it.  They have no excuses.  This probably the last Democratic majority we will see for a generation.  If this bill fails, we will never have another shot.  This bill HAS to pass.  Any focus on jobs or anything else should be scrapped, since the jobs wouldnt kick until after the 2010 election anyway when it doesnt matter anymore.  

[ Parent ]
Er... what? (4.00 / 1)
So it's okay for people who are unemployed to get no help as long as there isn't an election coming up?

[ Parent ]
Dentasmile Md (0.00 / 0)
 The tax hikes and health care plan are a redistribution of wealth. Who pays for the socialist health care? The tax payers. Which means that everyone pays for everyone else's healthcare, which is the very definition of a socialist healthcare plan.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Dent...

Wow, my apathy is really palpable (0.00 / 0)
Without a public option, I don't really care if this bill passes or fails.  In fact, the petty part of me wants to see it fail to pass* just to give President Obama a much-deserved kick in the teeth.

(By "fail to pass" I mean specifically a liberal/progressive-induced failure to pass.  If it falls to the Stupak block that gains us nothing.)


health (0.00 / 0)
The penalty is to offset the higher cost of emergency care that the people without health care insurance will eventually need. We're already paying for health care for everyone, we're just not getting what we're paying for. We need more value for what we're already spending.
weider x factor

we need 'medicare for all' for that (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
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