Open Left

I agree (4.00 / 6)

and I would underline the point about Biden being a brawler. We are in a huge dogfight that is only going to get more vicious and Obama needs somebody who has the personality and the standing to be able to cut McCain down to size.  Kathleen Sebelius, Tim Kaine, or even Chris Dodd don't fit the bill.

If Obama was cruising in the polls, I would worry more about the politics of the VP choice.  I don't think we have that luxury at this point.

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."

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by: FuzzyDunlop @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:18:28 AM CDT

sounds like (0.00 / 0)

an argument for Hillary Clinton. Plus, she won a few more votes than Biden during the primaries. Wow, did I just make an argument for Obama-Clinton?

John McCain or Barack Obama?

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by: tremayne @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:21:28 AM CDT

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Clinton = higher negatives (4.00 / 2)

At least, I'd suspect. Plus, she'd simultaneously energize the GOP base while demoralizing a hunk of Dem (given her negatively perceived behavior during the primaries). I'd definitely prefer Biden.

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by: bluesteel @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:25:45 AM CDT

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And there's Bill (0.00 / 0)

And all the problems it would create for actually trying to govern with a 3-headed Presdiency.  And the drama.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

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by: Mimikatz @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 12:23:24 PM CDT

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Biden has real experience (4.00 / 3)

Whereas Hillary has just 8 years in the Senate and her First Lady years. Let's not pretend that she has the same standing to attack McCain on foreign policy that Biden does.

I hope Biden is the pick. He's said some controversial stuff in the past, but he has also said controversial stuff about Obama ("clean, articulate"). So if Obama can give him a break, it actually shows graciousness on his part.

Obama/Biden '08.

"Change We Can Believe In. Experience You Can Count On"

Old Man McCain - Hatin' on McCain since 2008.

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by: existenz @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 12:27:00 PM CDT

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Sadly... (0.00 / 0)

You're probably right.   That might just make the strongest ticket now.

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by: leshrac55 @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:26:15 AM CDT

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I still think (4.00 / 1)

that Hillary would actually be a good choice, possibly the strongest choice, in terms of maximizing our chances of winning the election.  But I think she would be a problematic choice in terms of what comes afterwards and I don't expect it to happen, no matter what "teasers" in that direction have been dangled in the last week.

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."

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by: FuzzyDunlop @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:27:21 AM CDT

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the problem with Hill (4.00 / 2)

is that Bill has yet to fully endorse Obama or show himself to be a team player. I wouldn't pick a VP whose husband didn't like me. Hell no.

Old Man McCain - Hatin' on McCain since 2008.

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by: existenz @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 12:27:55 PM CDT

[ Parent | ]

the troubles with obama-clinton (4.00 / 2)

it has implications for who controls the democratic party and to what extent (maybe it's better to have competing centrist power bases that are slightly different from one another in policy - i dunno).

obama-clinton will generate the perception of a "diversity ticket."
do i think there's anything wrong with that? no.
do i think it should hurt the chance of the ticket to win? no.
do i think it will? yes. (mainly because the campaign has shown no evidence that they'll push back hard enough, as far as I can tell).

i also don't know how wise it would be to have co-presidents or the perception thereof, and finally what it would mean for health care reform after the earlier attempt by clinton as powerful non-president.  

it's a much higher risk strategy, i think, for both the election and for obama's ability to retain control of his administration (without even engaging the question of whether or not his total domination would be a good or bad thing) than picking a middle aged white guy who can and will fight with mccain.

Insert clever quote

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by: dr anonymous @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:47:31 AM CDT

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Biden is a far better speaker, though (4.00 / 2)

I wouldn't be unhappy with Hillary Clinton (especially compared to Kaine or Bayh), but I don't believe Clinton can fend off GOP attacks effectively. What she has demonstrated is an ability to effectively attack Democrats. Given the predilections of the traditional media, this is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Biden may be the only one other than Clark who I'd actually trust to smack the GOP BS down at every turn. Google "biden smackdown".

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by: RapsodiaStellare @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:56:52 AM CDT

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Agree with both of you (4.00 / 1)

I wrote a good bit in the thread below about how hard it is for a Dem to attack, but Biden is probably as good as it gets on this.  He has the national security cred to call McCain on his ignorance and bellicosity, and make it stick.  He doesn't back down.  But he does it with humor and is pretty solid on his facts.  I'd love to see hoim debate Romney or Pawlenty.  He would reassure on the foreign front and would leave Obama free to concentrate on connecting with voters on economic issues.  And he's edgy enough to make things interesting.  And he's a plausible President.

Ok by me.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

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by: Mimikatz @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 12:22:18 PM CDT

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Best of all - he's old. (0.00 / 0)

Yet not that old-seeming.  He will not be the nominee on his own.  That creates a more open field for future WH races.  (If he runs, he'll be 70+)

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by: Crab Nebula @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 13:17:50 PM CDT

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Yup (4.00 / 1)

I'm in the not-freak-out-over-Biden camp. He's a pro whose strong political appeal has been somewhat undervalued due to circumstance. He's relatively real--real, that is, for a politician, which is why the press loves him. If he'd run in 2004, he'd be president right now. He could win the VP debate so convincingly that it becomes an pivotal event. As for his main liability--his verbal gaffes--he showed pretty good discipline during the primary.

No one would mistake him for a progressive champion, but he's mostly resisted the DLC temptation. Obama's no more progressive than he is. In fact, during the primary--on issues like trade and Iran--Biden was to the left of Obama. His leadership on the violence against women act could be useful. All that said, I don't relish seeing clips of Biden during Anita Hill.

Interesting to see what Markos would say, since Biden, along with Kucinich, were the candidates he deemed "unacceptable."

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by: david mizner @ Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 12:30:48 PM CDT

[ Parent | ]