Nice Guys Finish Muddled

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 13:21


Robert Reich was the most overtly progressive member of Bill Clinton's cabinet.  By all appearances, he's also really smart and really nice.  Unfortunately, sometimes the two work against each other.  Such was the case on Inauguration day, when his post at TPM, "Obama's First Choice", advanced the argument that, although the stimulus needs to be large (his own view is $900+ billion), the price tag "scares" Republicans and Blue Dogs, and that it " may be the smartest politics and smartest economics" to go for the broadest support, even if the result is "a smaller stimulus package - one that may not be enough to jump-start the economy."

Reich explains:

Why would he ever choose the second strategy? Because his goal is not just to get the biggest stimulus package he can squeeze through Congress. It's to get a Congress that's mostly united behind whatever stimulus package emerges. This would ensure that Republicans and blue-dog Democrats take some ownership of the package, and therefore responsibility for making it work.

If they feel ownership and responsibility, Obama could return to them later if more money is needed, and probably get their backing. Just as important, he starts to build bipartisan support for other things that have to be done in the next few months - keeping the U.S. auto industry afloat, reducing mortgage foreclosures, and devising new regulations of Wall Street. And he lays the foundation for a more united Congress capable of tackling a new health-care system, a new system for reducing carbon emissions, and reform of Social Security and Medicare.

I have just one question: what has Reich been smoking?  Republicans and blue-dog Democrats feel "ownership and responsibility"?

Paul Rosenberg :: Nice Guys Finish Muddled
One does not have to go looking for eminent experts to counter this.  Commentator Matthew Saroff nails it right off the bat:

Sorry, but the idea that the Republicans will buy in and continue to buy in later if they get a crippled bill at day one is frighteningly naive.

Movement conservatives are not afraid that Barack Obama will do something wrong, they are afraid that he will do something right, and in so doing, undermine their message that government is evil.

You peel off enough Republicans to beat a filibuster, and that's it.

Everything in the last 20-35 years of American politics tells us that Saroff is right, and Reich is smoking David Broder's stash.

But, everything in the last 20-35 years of American politics also tells us that it's not that simple.  Of course Saroff's logic is correct.  But if you follow that logic, then you get accused of "betraying the spirit of bi-partisanship," and the Versailles press falls in line against Obama as fast as it turned against Clinton.   It's a trap that Barack Obama has seemingly set for himself, except that he almost certainly assumes that progressives will cave in order to save him from self-destructing on terms that they themselves supported only dubiously, overall.

The problem here is quite stark:  On the one hand, Obama can fight for a stimulus package that's big enough to do the job, and earn the enmity of the establishment media, along with the majority of the Beltway establishement.  A quick end to his presidential honeymoon.  Or he can get a package almost certainy doomed to fail, which means he gets clobbered a little farther down the road, and everyone else gets to say, "Well, we tried to go along with him, and look what it got us."

This is what the options look like from within the Versailles frame.  It's what I would call the "politics-as-usual frame", too.  But Obama has repeatedly echoed the Versailles frame that perversely and ahistorically casts Democrats sicking to their guns as "politics-as-usual."  Right now, with over 80% approval, is the best possible time for Obama to commit to a plan big enough to work, and then dare others to oppose him.  But Obama has to want to do that.  And there is no sign of that so far.  His vaunted commitment to "pragmatism" is put to the test here, because the inside Washington "pragmatism" of getting something passed that everyone approves of is diametrically opposed to the realworld pragmatism of doing something that actually works.

Don't get me wrong.  There are times and places where such a strategy--compromise at first to get the ball rolling, then do more down the line--can reasonably be argued for.  There are even times and places where it may be the only way.  But this is not one of those times and places, as Paul Krugman indicated back on January 11, when he quoted this passage from University of Oregon economist Mark Thoma:

I think the stimulus package is like driving up an icy hill. If you don't have enough momentum from the start and fail to provide enough "stimulus" to get the car over the crest of the hill, you can slide all the way back to the bottom, crashing into things along the way and ending up worse off than when you started. Maybe you can give it more gas along the way if needed without spinning out, and perhaps you can hold your position if you don't make it to the top, and then start again from the higher level, but that's not a chance I want to take when I'm sitting at the bottom wondering if I can make it to the top without wrecking my car -- the possibility of falling all the way back to the bottom and ending up worse off would make me want to start with sufficient momentum and then some. Essentially, I am arguing that there are crucial economic and psychological "tipping points" that must be reached in order for the economic recovery package to be effective (or at least, there's enough of a chance that they exist that they cannot be ignored when formulating robust policy).

Krugman then added:

I'd add that there may also be a political tipping point: if the stimulus package is too weak, conservatives will pile on after it fails to deliver, claiming that the whole concept has been discredited.

I agree with both Krugman and Thoma, and that's why my argument here is not an "ideological" one that Obama should not compromise on principle.  Rather, it's a pragmatic one, that Obama should not compromise now on the size and composition of the stimulus in ways that substantially endanger its chances of success.

If we commit to a massive stimulus package, but it's not big enough--or it's too tilted towards unproductive tax cuts--then we can expect the conservative "free market" economic narrative to come roaring back ten times stronger than before.  That's why we should all keep Thoma's analogy foremost in mind throughout all these discussions and debates about the stimulus.


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I agree with everything you said (4.00 / 3)
Indeed I think the icy hill metaphor must be repreated over and over.  It actually happened to me when I was a kid....our old Chrysler struggling up an icy hill in a huge traffic jam, only to slide down, miraculously not hitting any other cars on the way down.  It was terrifying.  I still don't remember how we got home.  And isn't the safety of home where we all want to be in this financial crisis?

I remember the early 90's when Robert Reich was a neo liberal who thought free trade was mom and apple pie...I disagreed with him then.  He is still a neo liberal while Krugman isn't any longer...he's just a plain liberal.

Reich's theory was that Ameirica was so technologicially advanced and smart that it would always be ahead of the curve and could stay ahead with a high standard of living.  I thought he was smoking something and oddly xenophobic (wrong word,,,I am struggling here). It was as though the bell curve of intelligence didn't apply to all the other countries in the world.  

Like smart people here were of course more capable than smart people elsewhere in the world.  China and India also have the personally ambitious and the intellectually capable,  except their top 2% of the bell curve distribution has many multiples more absolute numbers. It was an insult to the peoples of the rest of the world.  Now we see that not only have blue colllar jobs gone overseas, but white collar ones from call centers to lawyers.  No employment group is not vulnerable.

Robert Reich has been wrong for quite some time.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


As I Saw Things (4.00 / 2)
He wasn't entirely like that.  It's just that the part of him that knew better was always letting itself get talked into buying the whole NAFTA/GATT myth, and doing a better job of selling it than the ones who believed in it wholeheartedly.

Which only made it that much more frustrating.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Paul . (4.00 / 2)
I see your point here ... I do have to wonder though .. is Reich saying this is what he'll do? .. or is he just saying this is how he thinks Obama will approach it? .. given what Obama has said so far about being bi-partisan ... I mean .. look what Obama said yesterday ... it seems to me that Obama is giving the Republicans a chance to act like grown ups ... and by saying what he said .. maybe he realizes that if they don't make good on the chance .. he'll make them irrelevant .. one can only hope

I think Obama wants the stiumulus to be bipartisan.. (0.00 / 0)
...but, he's not going to give up the farm to do it... and he may resort to eh LBJ, pissing on your leg, treatment if necessary to get enough republican stragglers onboard.

He doesn't need much of their support.  If he gets 2/3rds of the overall vote for the bill, the bill will be seen as a bipartisan success...  that means only a handful of of senators and congressmen need to flip...  Obviously, the more he can get the better for various reason... but, it seems clear after yesterday, that Obama isn't going to sell his soul to do so...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Like I Say, It's Muddled (4.00 / 3)
One often has this problem with Reich.  His analysis and his prescription sort of run together.

You can keep them separated for a while, but then, all of the sudden, you find yourself at the point where you just have to ask exactly the same question you've put here.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
39% of the stimulus is already going to (4.00 / 3)
tax cuts. Summer and Rahm eliminated 2 billion that was for mass transit. Only 18% is for infastructure, when we have leevies failing, bridges collapsing, water mains breaking etc.

Those of us that were very worried about Obama's financial team saw wht was coming.

As Einstein said "the same mind that created a problem cannot fix it." Obama has surrounded himself with the group thinkers who got us into this mess. And then yesterday gave a waiver to a raython lobbiest to be in charge of running the pentagon. Wilkerson was on rachel Maddow last noght and he said it was a terrible pick.

These are some of the problems many of us have with Obama's selections. He has surrounded himself not with agents of change but agents of the status quo. And the status quo is not what people voted for. We didn't vote for change in the atmosphere of washington, we voted for change in the way washington functions, and who it functions for.


[ Parent ]
Hopefully (4.00 / 2)
Obama figures some of that out before his team of insiders drags us all down with them. I'm starting to worry that Obama listens way too much to Summers. That's the impression we got from Rep. Defazio on Rachel Maddow.

Next time Obama invites him to chat, Krugman should actually show up. An hour with Krugman could save Obama a lot of headache down the road.


[ Parent ]
well, (4.00 / 2)
it seems to me that Obama is giving the Republicans a chance to act like grown ups

we know that there isn't any chance that happens


[ Parent ]
The moment is always now (4.00 / 2)
I would say that the path here is much clearer than it is through foreign policy maze. I'd go even further. Obama needs a massive victory right at the outset, and his best shot at one, foreign or domestic, is the stimulus plan.

There are two reasons why this seems to me to be the most attractive strategy: first, given the overwhelming public support for an economic rescue, it has the greatest potential to cow any of the conservatives still harboring delusions of an early counterattack, and second, it prepares the ground for a cutback of military expenditures as the precondition of a new foreign policy. A military still in a position to demand being served ahead of all others at the table would otherwise foreclose any possibility of a consensus based on the realities of our present situation, and might very well overturn any gains made on the domestic front as well.

The only way to break up the monolith is to find the seams and cracks. This -- to me, at least -- seems the most promising place at the moment to insert the chisel.



Agreed (4.00 / 4)
If Obama were really who I hoped he was he'd also use the stimulus to argue for single-payer, too, as that's the most effective way to cut health care costs, and control that part of the budget as well.

There's definitely way open there.  The will, however, is much more in doubt.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
No way (4.00 / 1)
Back in Iowa, circa December 2007, Obama said that we can't afford to go single payer because "too many people work for the insurance companies."  At the time, Obama mentioned three million people as being employed by insurance companies (seems high,but ...).  The largest employer in Des Moines is an insurance company, Principal Life with 7,500 employees.

Obama is IMO unlikely to make such a drastic move in drastic times.  Strange but true?


[ Parent ]
These are some good (4.00 / 4)
comments, Paul.

However well it may have served his purposes electorally, his ongoing emphasis on his ability to be bipartisan, and to negotiate compromises -- far more so than any other President -- has the potential to destroy his Presidency. He will simply not be able to recover if his stimulus doesn't work, or, more to the point, can be effectively portrayed as being useless or even counterproductive.

Honestly, though, I think that, for all practical purposes, the deal is done on the stimulus. While negotiations are going to go back and forth as to its exact composition, and one can't help but think that Republicans are going to get some of their favored measures incorporated into it, the broad outlines of the measure, both in terms of size and composition seem pretty well set. I would expect alterations overall of perhaps 10% or less, one way or the other, of what is already proposed.

Given that Krugman, for example, estimates that the stimulus is off by a factor of 2, perhaps even up to 3, from what is really needed, that 10% is not at all likely to be decisive.

In the metaphor of the car driving up an icy hil, if the estimate is that the speed to get up that hill needs to be double what one is attempting, then, unless the estimate itself is just poorly reasoned, adding 10% to the speed is not likely to help. All one can hope for is that the estimate is just wrong (even if its reasoning is sensible).

That, I think, is what we are reduced to: hoping that the idea that the stimulus should be twice as large is just wrong, and far wrong.

Now I certainly don't think that it's impossible or even implausible that it's far wrong. But it's easy enough to see how it might be right -- especially when one considers the sort of Japan-like deflationary trap we might be entering if the stimulus isn't sufficient. Given that the very reason it is so important to have a stimulus rather than a major adjustment in monetary policy -- namely that there's no further room to make such an adjustment, given how close to zero both the Federal interest rate and inflation are -- the possibility of entering an era of deflation is very real.

I'm not feeling at all good about any of this. My fear is that our goose is already cooked. My only hope is that the estimates of some very good economists have missed the mark on some very important assumptions.


Just to add a bit (4.00 / 2)
I think that the real mistake Obama made was to be "pre-emptively" bipartisan in how he framed the stimulus. I have no doubt but that he chose the original figure of $775B out of, to coin a phrase, an abundance of caution over the attacks he'd get from the right if it exceeded 1 trillion dollars.

Once he settled on a figure far enough below 1 trillion to escape being tarred by that number in attacks, the possibility of getting it back up to a figure that would really do the job was dead.

As Krugman points out, even the estimates of Obama's own economists show that they believed that the proposed stimulus would at most fill one half of the estimated drop in GDP. So certainly they must have been aware of the likely inadequacy on economic grounds of the proposal to properly stimulate the economy.

From here on out, it's just a gamble that the icy hill isn't really as high as people have imagined, and that the stimulus suffices.


[ Parent ]
Or (4.00 / 1)
Maybe Obama has something up his sleeve about a second stimulus proposal come May or June.  That might not be too late to seamless blend into the current bill for most practical macro-economic purposes.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I just don't see how such a second major stimulus (4.00 / 1)
gets defended as early as May or June if he hasn't already made it clear he's may very need to go the well once again, and certainly I haven't heard a single public word out of Obama's mouth to that effect. What will have changed in a few months that will make it in any way plausible that he shouldn't have anticipated that further major move?

I could see an argument a year down the line that more will be required, based on incoming economic data, but in a few months? It looks completely incompetent or dishonest -- neither of which make for a successful sell.

And if he has to wait a year or so for a second stimulus, we are likely already sliding back down that hill, and it will be too little too late.


[ Parent ]
I'm Not Counting On It (0.00 / 0)
I'm just saying that we are in a very fluid political and economic environment, the likes of which our country hasn't seen in probably 70 years.  So don't count anything out.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
THE Problem is NOT holding lame ass Dem messaging (4.00 / 2)
accountable.

Sorry Paul, your making the same error that I've been hearing since I was 20 in 1980 making $4.25 hour as a grown up on welfare hugely in debt poli sci major college drop out in Holyoke MA. I've lived in Boston or Seattle for 28 of the last 31 years, and I've heard the same arguement over and over and over about the lying ass fascist media - how they'll lie and we'll lose.

In DC, working supposedly on the behalf of us cooks and teachers and cops and and and... there are:

- 100's of Dem Congresscritters
- 1000's of staffers doing media, press, communications ...
- TENS OF MILLIONS IN SALARIES

How come our side can NOT take the truth and turn it into nice little easy to understand and digest and remember soundbites SO we can win the idea war?

The ONLY reason their soundbites of lies finally ain't working is cuz of WAMUFreddieFannieAIGMerrillGM401ksHealthCareEducationKatrinaIraqSavingsandLoansLTVMilkenEnronKennyBoy4BuckAGallonGas...

There is only so much us workign stiffs can do day to day about saving the world, being kind of pre-occupied with NOT getting shitcanned and living under the bridge. I think the BEST investment of our limited time and money would be getting rid of the politically incompetent assholes who claim to be on OUR side!

rmm.  

It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way


The Terms Of This Discussion Should Change (0.00 / 0)
I continue to be surprised at the nature of the discussions and debate about "the stimulus package." Many of these discussions very simplistically focus upon the total dollar amount of the stimulus package, as if that is the only true measure of merit, the sine non qua, of the package.  

And we are invited (no thank you gentlemen) by so called distinguished economists (who have been wrong SO many times before because, remember folks, economics is an inexact science) to believe things like: $1 trillion will work, but $500 billion will not work. Oh brother.

And so many of these tidbits of advice from economists are so transparently colored by, and imbued with, CYA fears, a sense that a year from now, the economist might be called upon to explain how a swami who was reading tea leaves on some obscure astrology web site, did a better job of predicting how this stimulus wouldn't work, than he did.  The result?  Economists writing stuff like this:  I recommend we spend another $1 trillion dollars, but I must make clear, it may take $3 trillion. Cover your a...

Look...take a deep breath...remember what happened in 1991-1992?  The economy seized up as the country prepared to go to war, people stopped buying things, and we entered into a recession. Bill Clinton got elected promising America economic recovery. Once in office, he immediately proposed and passed his recovery plan.

It was modest...repeat after me...modest.  The fact of the matter is that it was essentially nothing (did I mention nothing?) but a tiny pebble thrown in the ocean that is our economy.  Yet, it worked. In fact, it worked magnificently.  Why?  How?  For god's sake, it was just a pebble!

It worked because it was focussed on the psychological element, THE DOMINANT ELEMENT of any and all federal recovery plans.  Clinton ran promising to do it, the electorate believed he would do it,he sold his plan when he passed it, and he did it.  

This historical lesson must be applied with respect to Obama's stimulus package.  As a general matter...scandalous I know...the total dollar amount is NOT GOING TO BE THE MOST DECISIVE FACTOR in determining whether this will be successful. Instead, the psychological dimensions surrounding its passage will be  MUCH more decisive. Yes, it is true, the sum of consumer behavior (and buying mood generally) is the principal driving force in our economy, NOT government spending. Sorry.

So...bottom line....Obama must sell his plan to the American people. To do so, as with any advocacy challenge, he has many choices.  He could do a Clinton...and really say nothing about the details...but just insist that...it will work!  Alternatively, he could do a modified Clinton, which I think is the more likely, and get a little bit down into the weeds by explaining how each major component of his package will work to help the economy. I think he is going to do this, and as such, he better be able to explain, against Republican complaints, how each component truly is what the American people should want in a stimulus package.

But, as Reich correctly points out, one thing that could sink America's efforts here is a concerted effort on the part of Republicans to vocally (IF they get media attention) undermine his recovery effort.  If Republicans attempt this, AND get media tractions, that could be fatal to the recovery occurring, and that should be avoided with some tact, diplomacy, and hopefully, some good will on the part of Republican leaders.  By the way, big business wants Obama to succeed in resurrecting the economy, so Republicans can be brought into line using this fact.

Now, I know what you are saying:  this recession is different from previous ones like the 1991-1992 recession. Unlike previous recessions, this one has a massive fraud/derivatives/slumping real estate prices hole that must be filled.  In particular, this one is grounded in massive amounts of fraud, illiquid derivatives and nationally and internationally collapsing real estate values.  To which I say:  yes, you are right.  This dimension of the problem, obviously, must be confronted seriously and squarely.  

So...it is time to cut to the chase here on this.

First, yes, massive fraud has occurred, and somebody is going to have to lose money, take a haircut, as a result. To which I say: those who committed the fraud should lose all, go bankrupt, suffer the losses, etc..  They should NOT be bailed out by the US taxpayers.

Second, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of derivative instruments were created in the froth of the Bush years by irresponsible banks, irresponsible investment houses, and then, snapped up by irresponsible over-excited investors. Those who were responsible for all of this chicanery should suffer maximal losses, go bankrupt, etc. and not be simply bailed out by the US taxpayers.  

To the extent that some of the "good investors" like pension funds and the like can be cushioned from these losses, bridge loans should be made to them to tide them over. But one thing should be clear, all the bad players must pay maximally; in particular, all those individuals who profited from this irresponsible behavior should disgorge their profits.  I am speaking of the top 1% of income earners...ahem...likely in certain zip codes in the New York City area.

Third, certain big banks in the United States are going to suffer mightily as a result of sagging real estate values in the United States.  Take a deep breath and acknowledge this fact. Certain bank losses are going to approach about 30% as a result of these sagging prices. Somebody is going to have to take a haircut as a result of these sagging prices.  Who should take the haircut? The American taxpayers? No.

Look, some of the big banks were not smart enough to plan for this contingency.  Others did.  As a result, some of the banks will have to be taken over by the federal government.  Others, only the healthy ones, should be spurred (yes, with federal money) to begin to make new loans.  With respect to the banks, a very simple rule: the federal government should minimize its haircut and maximize the haircut given to the shareholders of the banks. The American people should settle for nothing less.

Simultaneously, the federal government must take all possible actions to stabilize the national real estate market, including foreclosure avoidance legislation that refinances the mortgages for all those at risk of losing their homes.

Bottom line: I know it feels better to focus on the shiny objects like "$800 billion-Yes!", "$600 billion-No!". But, for the sake of the country, future generations, reason, and truth, let's clean up the discussion over this.  Force the trad med to focus on reality, not shiny objects.  


Funny, That's What Herbert Hoover Said! (0.00 / 0)
Yes, it is true, the sum of consumer behavior (and buying mood generally) is the principal driving force in our economy, NOT government spending. Sorry.

Confidence just needed to be restored.  That whole New Deal thingie?  Totally unnecessary!

Maybe you should write a book?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Clever, But Wrong (0.00 / 0)
Pithy and snarky, but sophistic, to take this single comment and imply that I am saying consumer behavior is the ONLY thing that matters.  Read the sentence.  

The sentence indicates that consumer behavior is the PRINCIPAL driving force in our economy.  A more appropriate response would be whether you agree that consumer spending is a principal, moderate, or small driving force in our economy.  Which one?  What is your response to that question?

And moving on to your New Deal comment, it would be absurd to suggest that federal spending was not important to the recovery that took place.  It would be equally absurd to suggest, as you seem to do here, that the federal spending was the exclusive reason why the recovery took place.

The facts tend to suggest that Roosevelt came into office with a mandate to pass a recovery, THE PEOPLE BELIEVED THAT HE COULD DO IT, and day in and day, out he demonstrated principled leadership that restored the confidence of a disillusioned people...namely, there was an important psychological component to the New Deal.  If you fully discount that, then you are simply ignoring the facts.  Roosevelt was reelected how many times?  Which tells you what about his effect on the electorate? Ya think they believed in him?

As for Hoover, the obvious analogy (and history will probably write it as such by the time we are pushing up daisies) would be to Bush.  George Bush lost all credibility with the American electorate in about 2005. (For me, it was 2000.) As such, a leader without any following, without any respect from the American people (you got us into this mess you fool!) trying to lead the American people out of the morass is a non-starter.  What Hoover said after the crash, or what Bush said after 2005 is largely irrelevant.


[ Parent ]
There's So Much Wrong With Your Analysis, I Just Poked At The Most Ovbious Weak Link (4.00 / 1)
I do, however, appreciate the fact that you are trying to think for yourself, and not just parroting what you hear other people saying.

But there really are a whole host of reasons that this can't be compared to 1993, and why it should be compared to 1933.

Plus, you are confusing arguments re the stimulus package and the TARP, which are certainly related (everything in the economy is related) but nonetheless quite distinct.

In fact, the most simple point that can be made connecting these two over-arching problems with your approach is that we didn't have a financial system collapse in 1993, while do today and did in 1933, too.  (Even in the midst of the earlier S&L; Scandal, we didn't have that, it was only one part of the financial system that was badly damaged, and it was much more isolated than what's going on today.)

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I Am Left To Guess That You Agree (0.00 / 0)
I am still not sure whether you think consumer spending is a principal, moderate, or small driving force in our economy.  I am guessing you probably believe it is a principal driving force, and as such, you would necessarily have to conclude that the psychological element of the stimulus package is quite important...which is what I was saying in the first half of my comment above (admittedly too long).  

In the second half of my comment, I did mix in what has, within the present legislative context, fallen under the purview of TARP.  Assuredly, the recovery package now being debated and the TARP are separate...but...there is no rule against discussing both of them when discussing the larger economy. :)  Additionally, if your are going to discuss whether a recovery plan will, or will not work, you do have to discuss the monster that TARP was meant to address...and so I did. If you cannot describe how that monster will be tamed...sorry...your recovery plan will likely not work.  

At any rate, I opposed TARP and still do. I advocated for something along the lines of what Senator Sanders was calling for at the time.  If I had my preference, the second installment in TARP would never have been allocated, but instead, the "problems to be addressed by the second installment of TARP" would have been folded into, and been part of, this recovery plan that is now being debated. That helps to explain why I included a discussion of the TARP issues!  

As far as the notion of this being 1933, no, I do not quite see that, nor do I suggest that this is precisely 1992. I think this recession lies somewhere between 1933 and the recession of 1982 which was an awful recession, one that was NOT met with prudent federal policy, and as a result, the recession festered and led into a time when substantially the rich got richer and the rest of us were sold down the river.

As I see it, the most recent intelligent response to a recession was Bill Clinton and the Democratic Party's response in 1992, and lessons that can be learned from response are worthy of discussion.      


[ Parent ]
Only if they are made to feel it (0.00 / 0)
"Republicans and blue-dog Democrats feel "ownership and responsibility"?

But, voters are ever so good at forgiving their elected representatives. Of course, having only two viable choices in each election doesn't help, either.

Doesn't matter which main stream party we focus on either. How many Bush-enablers from the Democratic Party were made to feel "ownership and responsibility" for their role in so weakly opposing Bush/Cheney on a laundry list of issues decorated with the invasion of Iraq at the top? Why should the Republicans be afraid of losing their seats by voting for Obama's plans before they vote against them?

 

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."






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