It was strange (4.00 / 2)

seeing all those people with signs calling themselves patriots and what not (they went to a corporate funded rally, pretty much the same as what Washington and the rest did) riding the government run Metro.  

Then again, if Democrats were all as aggressive as Anthony Weiner in talking about how great government run programs like Medicare and Social Security, and forcing Republicans to take a stand on these programs, maybe fewer people would be under this particular delusion,  

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.

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by: David Kaib @ Sat Sep 12, 2009 at 22:40:22 PM UTC

Democrats have their own delusional gangs... (4.00 / 2)

...my company inbox last night overflowed with angry right wingers saying, well, really angry things...

Boo hoo! Mike Lux is still pretending that there's something Obama won't sell out, and he gets angry emails from Republicans, those psychos!

Meanwhile my email has been overflowing with insults from Obamabots ever since I wrote my first critical comment about the worthless con-man Barack Obama in December 2007, after he supported FTA-Peru, even though 4,000,000 Peruvian workers and farmers had gone out on general strike against it.

But let me quickly refrain from insulting any of those know-nothing fanatics for Obama rational and courteous Democratic commenters, lest I get banned again from OpenLeft, like 14 other "progressive" sites where Obamabots drove out anybody who doubted the sacred infallibility of their hypocritical Messiah, Barack Obama!

Obamabots are the neo-cons of the Democratic Party, and it's only fair that Obama's friends get the same kind of emails that I do.

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by: Jacob Freeze @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 10:58:56 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

White House spokesman suggests 30% cut in Medicare spending... (4.00 / 2)

While Mike Lux is "cleverly" making fun of seniors who have doubts about Obamacare...

...a lot of them are older, and this anger they carry around must be terrible for the toll it takes in terms of the high blood pressure, hypertension, heart disease.

White House spokesman Daniel H. Pfeiffer suggests that Medicare spending could be cut 30% "without reducing services!"

Harharharhar!!!

"To put this in perspective, the Medicare savings proposals that the House is considering as part of health insurance reform would constitute perhaps a 6-to-7 percent reduction in spending over 10 years," said Daniel H. Pfeiffer, a White House spokesman, who also noted that the AARP had agreed with the administration's assessment that the cuts would not force reductions in beneficial services. "A wide array of experts agree that we could reduce spending by 30 percent without reducing services," he added.

And why wouldn't seniors trust Barack Obama to reduce Medicare spending by 30% "without reducing services?"

Don't they understand that Barack Obama is the sacred progressive Messiah?  

They must be delusional!

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by: Jacob Freeze @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 11:22:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Medicare spending could be cut 30% "without reducing services!" (4.00 / 1)

More Obama lies.

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by: BBFmail @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 21:17:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

60000 is not a bad showing (4.00 / 3)

So says the DC fire department (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/09/small_protest_agst_big_govt.php?ref=fpblg).

I am alarmed that the number is so high.  Granted the demos I've attended were in the 1/4 million range..  Nonetheless, for a lunatic group, 60K is more than a fringe number.

I can't share your blaze attitude.


I live in a true blue state--I will have a choice in November

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by: LeeNYC @ Sat Sep 12, 2009 at 22:42:00 PM UTC

I disagree (0.00 / 0)

60K from all over the U.S. is barely a drop in the bucket.  Anyway, Bush showed us that it's possible to ignore more than 5 to 10 x that number.

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by: wilder @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 01:24:44 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

With that (4.00 / 1)

how many people are we able to get to a similar healthcare reform rally?

the same if we're lucky.  

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by: DTOzone @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:48:02 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

One health care reform rally doesn't have the same ring (0.00 / 0)

as "OMG!  Remember 9-11!!!!!"

9-11 was their baby for years and years.  They took a tragic day we all shared and clubbed us over the head with it again and again.  That day and the period that followed embodied everything they could ever want: bad guys, he-men, a conservative Christian president standing tall, people waving American flags, USA! USA! music on the radio.  Never mind how horrible the actual day was, never mind that their macho Christian president might have stopped the attack if he had read a memo in August.  9-11 -- their version of it -- was their wet dream.

Now the hero Christian president is gone, and some black dude from the Traitorcrat Party is presiding over 9-11 festivities.  The nutjobs want their day back, dammit!

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by: wilder @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 07:17:02 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I agree (4.00 / 1)

it's a pretty good turnout.  

But it shows, I think, that many people are confused about the health care debate.  Either side of the abortion issue (where people are not confused )would have no problem turning out 100K.  

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by: fladem @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:56:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

125,000 MAX????? (0.00 / 0)

THE 9-12 MARCH ON WASHINGTON

http://www.stealthfusion.com/f...  

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by: BBFmail @ Mon Sep 14, 2009 at 13:45:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

They have tried it before... (0.00 / 0)

One reason I'm optimistic is that the lines of attack on Obama are tried & tired...the racism, the gun stuff, the references to socialism, the kooky birth stuff -- this was all trotted out in the 2008 campaign and it flopped badly.  It also reminds me of the closing argument of the Re-Elect GHW Bush campaign about Bill Clinton's youthful trip to the (then) Soviet Union -- this stuff failed then too.

I do worry, however, that the economy won't recover fast enough for the Dems to inherit the blame for this dog of a recess/depression and that we will sustain major losses in 2010 and even 2012.  Also, it is really looking like taking single payer off the table was a major mistake.  The chips are down in this debate and we gave away most of 'em before the game started.

Also, I was on the edge of the crowd today and it was 125,000 max -- a fairly respectible crowd but nowhere near 600 K and I'm pretty experienced at handicapping DC crowd counts.  The Capitol reflecting pool takes up a lot of room and makes Mall crowds seem much bigger than for events staged in the middle of the Mall.

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by: howardpark @ Sat Sep 12, 2009 at 23:23:26 PM UTC

Thanks, once again, mike for doing your dlc duty of pointing at .... (4.00 / 1)

... the republicans and reminding us just how vile they are ... no shit! ... while your party, which controls the oval office, senate and house, sells us out behind closed doors to the pharmas, the insurance companies, and the hospitals as your hero, the man who makes you cry with his lies, compromises away what 75% of the people he professes to represent want:  the public option.  

I'm sure you'll be invited to the White House Christmas party and any other dlc dem parties over the holidays ... you've been fully coopted.  

Again, what do you think of david brooks?  Isn't he a nice guy?

Z  

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by: Z @ Sat Sep 12, 2009 at 23:42:11 PM UTC

Relax. (4.00 / 1)

I heartily recommend watching Obama at the Minnesota rally today.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

He reiterates that the government will have interim programs, to cover people for example with pre-existing conditions. "We will provide" was the phrase he used. I'd love to hear more of this interim program before the whole program is set up. So merely waiting four as some had said, is not on the books.

Second he re-iterates, to much screaming apporoval, that there "will be" a public option. That does not spound like someone who has "taken it off the table"

None of this means that the pledge block should not re-double their efforts to dig in, and expand their demands, I think single payer in one state is a huge possibility and advance for example.

in fact when talking to your Rep, demanding she sign on, you could tell het that its going to happenm anyway, might as well be where the victory is first, might as well be where her constituents want her to be. "Want a hugely popular win? Sign the pledge!"

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 02:52:18 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

No, don't relax (0.00 / 0)

The link you gave does not back up your claim that

Second he re-iterates, to much screaming apporoval, that there "will be" a public option.

Instead, what the Huff Po article says is that

The president said he wants to see a government-run option in the plan and remains open on "how to set this up."

I'm sure Obama would like to win the Mega Millions lottery, but that's not a sure thing, and it doesn't mean that he will fight for it.

So, why do you say that Obama says that there "will be" a public option? Are you relying on another source? Certainly, it seems odd to say that you "will" have something, but to also say that the speaker "wants" that same thing.

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com

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by: metamars @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 18:37:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The administration and Congress are playing a shell game (0.00 / 0)

The United States has a national debt just under $12 trillion - and that is growing by roughly $4 billion a day. We are broke and on an unsustainable fiscal course. These numbers do not even fully reflect the catastrophic shortfall in our existing entitlement programs, which will come under increasing pressure as the baby boomers begin to retire.

Both the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office and the White House agree that President Barack Obama's budget will add an additional $10 trillion in red ink during the next decade. Outside of the 10-year window, the budget projections only get worse.

This reality fills Americans with anxiety as our fiscal health eerily resembles Argentina. Citizens ask themselves: How will we pay this debt down to manageable levels, and who will pick up the tab? Will debt be paid back through higher taxes, or will the government just turn on the printing presses and attempt to inflate itself out of this fiscal time bomb? As a nation, the time has come to live within our means, and that is the message concerned citizens delivered during the congressional month long recess.

This is the anxiety that drove the tea parties in April and continued into the town halls. In light of the fact that we cannot cover our existing commitments to Medicare, where are we going to get the money for a new health care entitlement, as proposed in H.R. 3200?

The administration and Congress are playing a shell game with the true cost of the program, claiming that over a 10-year period it is only an additional $1 trillion in spending. But when you read the details, the true cost after the first 10 years of full implementation brings the price tag much higher, to more than $2.4 trillion, according to the Senate Budget Committee.

And to pay for the plan, Democrats are proposing $500 billion in Medicare cuts. But these cuts are being sold as "savings." On one hand, supporters of H.R. 3200 claim that Medicare is more efficient than private insurers, but on the other hand, they claim there is $500 billion in fat to be trimmed that will not harm seniors' care. Which is it?

Americans are concerned the bill will have the long-term consequence of phasing out private health insurance, forcing citizens to reveal confidential financial and health records to some government bureaucracy and failing to address the core issue of cost.

After watching the cost overruns of the Massachusetts universal coverage experiment and the failure of TennCare, Tennessee's health care program, Americans have every right to doubt the government's ability to centralize and manage health care in a way that will lower costs and strengthen the doctor-patient relationship.

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by: BBFmail @ Mon Sep 14, 2009 at 13:35:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm wondering nuts-and-bolts things… (4.00 / 1)

...like, did they spend their own money to get to DC? I think the key to debunking this "movement" is to keep showing images of the signs. "Tens of thousands" has kind of a formidable ring, but placards with a Hitler-moustached Obama and references to leaving guns at home "this time" are clearly outside the mainstream. That's when observers actually start doing the math.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

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by: tru blu @ Sat Sep 12, 2009 at 23:42:26 PM UTC

I was there and photographed those signs - Prefer to keep under wraps (0.00 / 0)

Several DC activist groups promoted a "vigil against Glen Beck" and about 40 or so people showed up to stake out a spot on the southwest corner of the Capitol building.

First, the crowd seemed HUGE to me; 100K does not seem outlandish to me as an estimate.

Second, I think most of them paid their own way there. They seemed like ordinary folks, albeit probably uneducated. They were a mix of ages, with a lot middle-aged and older.

Third, they carried ugly signs. I photographed the Hitler-moustachioed Obama and will not post it to my Facebook page or elsewhere. I think it and those people could be dangerous.

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by: Upward and Onward @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 19:55:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

In my more cynical moments ... (0.00 / 0)

... I think the ramping up of this right wing nonsense is being orchestrated by big business ... that's just hard reality actually ... to give obama more credibility, by contrast, so that he can sell his sell-out to the american people more effectively.  The right wingers have a way of making the centrist corporatists seem like friends and big business can depend upon some interconnected beltway "progressives", who have essentially been coopted and are really dlcers more than anything else, to do their share by trying to focus the public's attention on the crazies rather than the people, and party, that we've chosen to represent us, but doesn't.

I'm not saying that the dlc water carriers are part of the plot, but they can be counted on to reflexively do the dance and seize upon the nuttiness to blindly promote their party.

Z

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by: Z @ Sat Sep 12, 2009 at 23:55:08 PM UTC

Oh wow, do you have pamphlets about this? (0.00 / 0)

I can't get into theories like this unless they are printed on mimeograph paper. I am so nostalgic for that smell. Though I think its probably carcinogenic.

They are so clever! OK let me continue, the way to fool them,  is to not vote at all! Then no one wins and we remove their right  to govern!

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 02:55:48 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

mike, is this part of your make them do it strategy? (0.00 / 0)

By pointing out that almost no matter what the dems do, they are the better option?  Does pointing out how totally screwed up the other party is really promote accountability for your own party?  IF you really, really care about "making them do it" rather than merely keeping your dc dem pals in power, wouldn't your time and energies be best spent pressuring your precious party rather than pointing how crazy the crazies are that have no power?

Expecting another hidden comment reaction rather than a reply.

Z

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by: Z @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 00:03:28 AM UTC

bitter much? (4.00 / 1)

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by: DTOzone @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 00:59:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

9-.12ers? People protesting for working less hours? (4.00 / 1)

Well, I think a 35 hour workweek would be good, instead of the traditional 9-5 schedule, but only 15 hours on the job every week is really not enough. Does anybody support this crappy idea?

Uh, or did I misunderstand something here? 9-12ers, wtf?

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by: Gray @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 00:14:16 AM UTC

30 for 40 is my demand for wages. (4.00 / 1)

Overtime starts at 30 hours, and wages do NOT go down when we move from the 48 hr week we have now, to the new 30 hr. week.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 02:58:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

We need to calm down (4.00 / 1)

We have badly over-reacted to the tea baggers movement. There is an obsession among liberals with them, and I think that obsession is actually distracting us from the task at hand.

In the end, the tea baggers have only so much power as we choose to give to them.

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by: fladem @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:05:07 AM UTC

It's a point, fladem, but do WE really give them power? (0.00 / 0)

Isn't it the media which is doing this, and we have to fight that damaging practice? So, the point should be, outrage isn't good if it keeps us from acting against the distortion of the debate, and from fighting the public distraction!

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by: Gray @ Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 09:11:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]