well all right (0.00 / 0)

So what do Democrats think they're getting then? What do Obama and Reid think will improve for them now that Specter is a Democrat and no other Democrat has much of a chance of unseating him?

It must be something.

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by: Chachy @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 16:29:12 PM CDT

Obama was mentored by Lieberman (0.00 / 0)

. He opposed Ned Lamont.

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by: Dameocrat @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 16:55:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Obama's possibly locked down a vote (0.00 / 0)

On health care and the environment.

Specter's political "brand" rests on being perceived as an independent thinker.  He can't switch yet again on EFCA.  He needs a highly visible issue that lets him assert that he won't become a party-line Democrat.  So, if one wanted to maximize leftward movement by Specter, the correct strategy is to allow him his fig leaf on EFCA for the price of moving farther left on other issues like health care and the environment.  You can even revisit EFCA later with cosmetic re-writes that allow him to say the bill has changed enough for him to shift.

Personally, I advocate the left putting this sort of pressure by agreeing to back off if Specter moves left on some other issues, then stabbing him in the back and supporting a progressive primary challenge anyways.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

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by: Anthony de Jesus @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 16:58:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

and efca will just magically fail by a couple of votes (4.00 / 1)

and there will be some guy we will give a pass on healthcare which will magically  go down by 2 or 3 votes.

We've seen this shit before millions of millions of times.  I don't know why we continue to fall for this garbage.  I don't like politics or the Democratic Party.  I like concrete results.

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by: Dameocrat @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 17:03:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Pick one (0.00 / 0)

It's real simple.  If, you want concrete results, pick one result that you really want and make it the defining litmus test that is more important than everything else in the way that social conservatives have elevated abortion.

If, for example, you made health care the big issue to rally around, then one thing the left could do to drive this point home is to promise to primary the most socially liberal Democrat who isn't sufficiently to the left on health care.  If we don't come up with a new bloody shirt to wave, the progressive movement is going to run into problems when Iraq no longer presents a unifying issue with a sense of immediacy.  So, just pick one issue (or really three or four) to prioritize and be willing to make some compromises on other issues to get stuff done instead of engaging in a Nancy Grace-like culture of permanent outrage which treats everything as a harbinger of doom.  

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

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by: Anthony de Jesus @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 17:26:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

and you will tell me I can't pick health care (0.00 / 0)

when that day comes.  We need to forget elections and focus on costing the establishment money.  Civil disobedience.  Shut things down.

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by: Dameocrat @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 17:29:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

actually (0.00 / 0)

I'd tell you that you should pick health care.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

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by: Anthony de Jesus @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 18:01:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

He's already said he hasn't shifted on cap and trade (4.00 / 1)

and his current position is terrible. And he opposes EFCA beacuse of it's core, card check and binding arbitration. He won't go for little tweaks.  

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power

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by: Populista @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 18:44:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, neocons republicans are considered moderates (0.00 / 0)

which is why I don't consider Arlen Specter to be much of a prize and I don't know why we are encouraging him to join.  

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by: Dameocrat @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 16:53:24 PM CDT

heres hoping that (0.00 / 0)

there will be a little magic in specters senate race and magic bullet arlen will be sent packing for the good of pa and the us.

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by: pc @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 16:55:41 PM CDT

Chopped liver is us (4.00 / 7)

So now it's official: Arlen Specter is a good Democrat, and we're extremists. More jiu-jitsu, maybe, but I'd say that it smells more like Rahm Emanuel, Tim Geithner, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, Joe Lieberman, and all the rest of the earnest folks so hell-bent on looking out for the good of the country. It isn't enough to marginalize us, they feel obliged to insult us as well.

How anyone thinks we're gonna get universal health care, peace in the Middle East, and EFCA out of this is beyond me.

Maybe that's why I'm not in charge of sending out e-mail blasts to the faithful, or chairing the DNC....

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by: William Timberman @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 17:16:26 PM CDT

Progressives don't have the money to win elections (4.00 / 1)

we are only effective when we strike boycott and protest.  That is a historical fact.

Establishment politics doesn't work for people that don't have loads and loads of bribery money.

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by: Dameocrat @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 17:27:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'd rate this comment an 8 if I could... (4.00 / 1)

Frank Zappa: Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.

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by: Emocrat @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 21:00:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

well (4.00 / 2)

I would be sympathetic to the argument of increased partisanship but the Lieberman thing is a terrible way to make that case. Lieberman lost in the Dem primary because:

1. He supported an illegal and immoral war
2. More than that, he was a cheerleader for it
3. He supported all the violations of the constitution that went with it including wiretapping and torture.
4. He gave the Bush crowd and the media a way to portray all of the above as bipartisan and legitimate.

If Democratic voters rejecting that makes them extremists then I guess I'm for extremism.

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by: tremayne @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 17:33:24 PM CDT

How about this nugget? (4.00 / 2)

SPECTER: In discussing that issue with Senator Reid, the fair approach which we both agreed to was to be where I would be had I been a Democrat coming into the Senate with my election in 1980. So you can take a look at the charts and figure out exactly where I'd be.

Yikes!

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by: TValley @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 17:35:59 PM CDT

yeah (4.00 / 2)

MSNBC tells me he wants to be Appropriations chair.  If that happens, there will be 2 effectively Republican chairs in the 111th Senate.

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by: Daniel De Groot @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 18:14:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And its a feature (4.00 / 1)

not a bug.

Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison

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by: David Kaib @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 18:19:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What, exactly (4.00 / 1)

Are Democrats getting out of this?

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by: TValley @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 18:21:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Shows Reid can't negotiate for shit (4.00 / 4)

The fair approach might have been to respect his seniority, but only to give it half-weight since it was for the other side. If he was considered to have seniority dating back to 1994, that might have been acceptable.

As it is, this is yet more evidence that we needlessly gave away the whole show. We should have let Specter lose, then maybe asked him to endorse the Democratic candidate.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

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by: Englishlefty @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 18:45:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

From NBC TV (4.00 / 1)

the democrats promised to support him, raise money for him, and president Obama will campaign for him

this sucks...

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by: The Big Hurt @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 17:47:01 PM CDT

Right, so instead he choose to be a "banana republic[an]"?? (0.00 / 0)

 "I think the president is correct in saying that we ought to be looking forward and that you shouldn't prosecute people who operated in good faith relying on competent legal counsel. If there is evidence of criminality, then the attorney general has the full authority and should prosecute it. But going after the prior administration sounds like something they do in Latin America in banana republics."

That was last week.  MSNBC claims this was "a Rendell/Biden production".  And Harry Reid has his shriveled parts in there too no doubt.

Rendell couldn't get Clinton -so is this his way of subverting Obama?

Sestak is now saying no one tells him what to do but the voters, anjd many think he can take it.

Everyone say:

YES WE CAN HAVE A PRIMARY CHALLENGE IN PENNSYLVANIA!  

Nationalism is not the same thing as terrorism, and an adversary is not the same thing as an enemy.

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by: worldlymother @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 18:20:02 PM CDT

If I were Toomey... (0.00 / 0)

I'd be running this clip in an ad against Specter in the general...

"I think [Obama's] critics on the left need to be aware of some of these realities and show some patience and willingness to compromise. Success will build upon success..."  -Ben P.

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by: lord_mike @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 18:51:33 PM CDT