Stupid Voters, Part Two

by: John Emerson

Sat Dec 19, 2009 at 13:00


1.

Last week I put up a piece on the oft-heard liberal meme “People vote for the Republicans because people are stupid”. Ever since I first started thinking about the Stupid Voter meme I’ve been seeing it everywhere (for example  here, here and -- comments to the previous link -- here.) For a lot of liberals the Stupid Voter explanation of Republican success is a self-evident, unthought truth. However, in reality the Stupid Voter meme is a harmful illusion and a source of some of the Democratic Party’s big weaknesses. Today I’d like to quickly summarize last week’s argument, while also developing it further and revising it in certain ways. (Readers who find my summary here too sketchy can go to the original here; my data and links to my sources are also included there).

To begin with, I do not object to the incidental use of the word “stupid” as an insult or as a way of venting. No Mr. Nice Guy here, and in fact, if I think that your comment here is stupid, I’ll be happy tell you so. But insulting large blocs of voters is a  source of confusion, a copout, and a way of quitting.

In point of fact, the Stupid Voter meme misrepresents voting patterns. Voters without HS degrees were Obama’s best educational demographic, while college graduates without advanced degrees his worst.  (The most highly educated of all, those with advanced degrees, were almost as good for Obama as the uneducated -- but not quite). These numbers can be sliced and diced further, and last week we had a long discussion (which I do not want to continue) about whether education is a good proxy for intelligence, but my conclusion is this: There are no legitimate definitions of “smart” and “stupid” which put most smart people in the Democratic Party and most stupid people in the Republican party, and we should just quit talking about smart and stupid at all. The Democrat/Republican, liberal / conservative, left / right differences are just not differences in intelligence or education.

In the rest of this piece I will talk more about the sources of the Stupid Voter fallacy and its ill effects on policy. 

John Emerson :: Stupid Voters, Part Two

However you define stupidity, half the population is by definition stupider than average. Our government is the government of all the people, and in our system everyone gets to participate in politics. This is not true in aristocracies or restricted-franchise democracies, and there are in fact people in the US who want to return to the restricted franchise and restrict voting to those who are capable of voting intelligently.

These people are called “Republicans”. The Republicans have been running voter-discouragement and franchise-restriction programs for decades -- Hans von Spakovsky has built a lifetime career on these projects. The biggest problem with the liberal Stupid Voter meme is that if these liberals had their way, Republicans would gain control of government, and liberalism would simply disappear.

So who are the stupid voters? There are three groups of voters who Democrats routinely accuse of being stupid: hard-core Republicans, “low information voters”, and non-voters. (There are inevitably plenty of stupid Democratic voters too, but liberal whiners don’t talk about them, though conservatives and anti-democratic elitists do).

The hard-core crazified Republicans are not, in general, stupid, and it’s totally wrong to think of them as trailer trash. A high proportion of them, perhaps the majority, are well-educated and prosperous. Some of them are economically motivated, and some of them are culturally motivated, and many are both. In Red State, Blue State, Rich State, Poor State Andrew Gelman shows that the culture-war divide is not between rich liberals and poor conservatives, but between two different kinds of well-off people, and I’m convinced (based on personal experience and without hard data) that something like this also holds true for the hard right’s educational status. (In general, prosperity and educational level track pretty well, and I've run into many well-educated wingers).

The next two groups of supposedly-stupid voters, low-information voters and non-voters, are purely and simply the product of Democratic failure. Low-information voters decide how to vote based on ambient information (i.e., free media and local scuttlebutt), and the free media are predominantly right wing. Non-voters, the second group, either are entirely unaware of politics, unconvinced that the Democrats have anything to offer them, or else prevented from voting by concrete problems such as lack of transportation or lack of time. In any case, both these classes of voters or potential voters are people who the Democrats, one way or another, have failed to reach.

You may ask: Aren’t non-voters people who the Republicans have also failed to reach? The answer is a resounding NO! Year in and year out, voter-discouragement is an important part of the ongoing Republican campaign. In that seanse, non-voters are often people the Republicans have succeeded in reaching.  Except for the most highly-educated tenth, the more Democratic an educational demographic is, the less likely it is to vote. Obama’s worst demographic was college graduates with no advanced degree, who make up 19% of the population but 28% of the voters. By contrast, Obama’s best demographic was the 14% of the population with no HS degree, but this demographic is the one least likely to vote, making up only 4% of the actual voters.

Now the obvious solution is, first, to get the word out to the non-voters and low-information voters, and second, to get the non-voters to vote. These are, however, the weakest parts of the Democratic program. The Democratic Party seems to fall asleep between elections, and it has been historically very poor at the kind of message development and dissemination done by think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute, the Cato Foundation, the Heritage Foundation, etc. Over a period of decades these think tanks have propagated their ideas everywhere, and their ideas have thus have become “ambient”. The Democrats have nothing to match them. Similarly, the Democratic voter-registration and get-out-the-vote efforts have been spotty at best, and it’s notable that the individuals and groups doing the best job of this (ACORN recently and Jesse Jackson a couple of decades ago) have been very little appreciated by the ruling group in the party.

When smart, well-paid, experienced people fail in stupid ways, it’s always a good idea to ask whether there's a discrepancy between their actual and their professed goals. There are many reasons to think that this is what is happening in this case. The Democratic Party is a business like any other, and just as newspapers get their money from advertisers and not from readers, the Democratic Party gets its money from donors rather than from voters. Bringing new voters from the lower orders into the party would almost certainly require policy proposals which would negatively impact the big-money people, and even if the Democratic Party started winning elections that way, the boodle coming in would be reduced, and boodle is what pays the mercenary pros at the party headquarters.

In large part this explains the constant refrain from the Democratic leadership: we’d like to do the right thing, but political realities make it impossible. The truth is that the Democratic leaders are very happy with the political realities and don’t want to change them. If it were "politically possible" to pass single-payer, for example, the Democratic Party would lose incredible amounts of money from key donors in the medical biz. Single-payer might make the voters ecstatically happy, but these happy voters are not at all likely to replace the money the party lost.

If you look at the present healthcare debate, it’s all been about process: the filibuster, and the conservadems, and the committee chairmen, and the Congressional procedures, and various delaying tactics like holds and demands for readings, and so on.  This kind of last-minute crisis manoeuvring is what the pros thrive on. It puts them in control since they’re the only ones who really understand it, and  they especially love it because it allows them (ever-so-politely) to flip off the Democratic voters who expected better. The Democratic Party is going to make a lot of money from the failure of healthcare reform.

With strongr campaigns and more Democrats in Congress, lawmaking would go much differently. It would be harder for the Democratic leaders to play their donors off against their voters, much harder to engineer short-term crises (like the present Lieberman crisis) in order to bully people into accepting second best, and the Democratic leadership would no longer be able to tell the voters “We’re sorry, but what you want is not politically possible”.

In these crisis discussions, nobody ever talks about the long term, and when the crisis is over, no one talks about the long term then either. A year ago, where was the Democratic effort to get the word out about healthcare reform? Why do the low-information voters only hear disinformation? Why did so many of the people who most desperately need health insurance not vote? Why do so many nominally-Democratic Congressmen have Republican attitudes toward healthcare reform? Why do Democrats tolerate the crippling House and Senate rules, which they could change with a majority vote? The list could go on, but the answer is that everyone who counts (i.e., not me or you) likes things pretty much the way they are. The present reality facilitates the expert wheeling-and-dealing and extortion of boodle that the party pros are best at, and it lets the candidates and the parties  fatten up. The officeholders and pros are doing very well for themselves, and if you don’t like it, that’s your problem.

This brings us back to the Stupid Voter meme. Talk about stupid voters reinforces the idea that not much is really possible. If nothing is really possible, the party pros can talk about filibusters and holds and so on and pretend that they tried, and they can also jeer at the liberals who “don’t understand the political realities”. Elite liberal anger can be gradually shifted from the party pros to the stupid voters who elected Lieberman, Snowe, Lincoln, Landrieu, and Nelson -- even though these individuals themselves are highly honored members of "the greatest deliberative body in the world" and have just had their asses kissed by the Democratic leadership constantly for six months. And elite liberals can still feel good about themselves in failure, since they tried, but were defeated by the stupid voters.  

The only way to improve the political realities would be to persuade and recruit more stupid voters, but there is no reason for the party pros to want to do that.

2.

Last week I talked about “the wonk demographic” -- the 10% of the adult population with graduate degrees, who made up 19% of the actual voters and 18% of the Democratic voters. What I said then was a little off the mark and I’d like to put it differently this time.

Today’s electorate (by which I mean the actual voters) is historically unique: almost half of it is college educated. If you take the “wonk” group with the advanced degrees and add the bachelor’s-only 19% of the population (28% of the actual voters), you’ll end up with a college-educated demographic consisting of 29% of the adult population and 45% of the actual voters. When you consider that educated voters are also more prosperous, more likely to donate money, and more likely to volunteer, it’s possible to say that college graduates – the Smart Voters -- are the dominant group in American politics today. (Though you should keep in mind that even large groups of educated, well-off individuals are rather insignificant compared to people like the Koch brothers or the Elder Brother of Jesus, Reverend Moon).

If the base voters of both sides are complaining that the real problem is the stupid voters on the other side (and they are) even though stupid voters are not dominant on either side of the line, it’s pretty reasonable (as it always is in politics) to suspect that something that fishy is going on. What makes the most sense here is to say that we're mliving through a version of the cultural politics of the Bourbon / Standpat era (1870-1896 , or maybe 1870-1912, or even 1870-1932). During that period the two major parties were in substantial agreement on the big questions and divided up the voters according to culture: North v. South, Catholic v. Protestant, wet v. dry, and black v. white. There was some real conflict (resource industries v. manufacturing and finance v. manufacturing), but both parties were controlled by big money, and neither cared to represent the workers and small farmers who made up the majority of the population.

In the present case, the politics of sex and gender is the divider, with much the same results. Scary cultural conservatives are used to scare mostly well-off cultural liberals into the Democratic net, and scary cultural liberals are used to drive mostly well-off cultural conservatives into the Republican net. Liberals think of the typical Republican as an illiterate hillbilly Holy Roller, and conservatives think of the typical Democrat as an AIDS-infected prostitute, and fantasies of these types decide elections.

Under these circumstances, the well-off, reliably-voting groups on both sides  tend to find their own particular issues being treated with some seriousness, and the interest groups who provide the really big money get most of what they want. The losers are the Stupid Voters, who even though they are over half of the voters and 72% of the population, and even though both sides talk about how much they care about them, scarcely count at all.


THE MORAL OF THE STORY

It’s stupid to talk about “the stupid voters”, and liberals should quit doing it. But my recent internet experience has taught me that this bad habit is deeply ingrained and that many find it very satisfying, and I suspect that many liberals are going to find changing their ways hard or impossible. The educated tend to define their own identity and their relationship to the rest of the human world in terms of their own educational success and their difference from those without it.

Since the educated elites have done pretty well for themselves, at least so far, it may be that they (like the Democratic pros) are happy enough with the status quo, since the ones who are being hurt are mostly from among the stupid people. On the other hand, the present economic downturn hasn’t found bottom yet, and as time goes on, more and more smart people might unexpectedly find themselves stuck down there with the stupids.

APPENDIX I:
BOURDIEU

Citing a French author will tarnish my populist cred, but the Republican-Democratic split is a lot like Bourdieu’s split between the dominant part of the dominant class (business, industry, finance, the police, and the military) and the dominated part of the dominant class (education, social services, and the arts). These two sectors trade control of government back and forth, with the dominant-dominants usually winning, and they’re always fighting for the support of the dominated 70%. Democrats are pretty well entrenched with the bottom 10% of the dominated class, but the next 60% is up for grabs, with Obama winning every educational category in the most recent election.

APPENDIX TWO:
MORE ON THE WONK DEMOGRAPHIC

Last week I identified the wonk demographic as the 10% of the population with advanced degrees. It would make better sense to describe them in Bourdieu’s terms as the dominated (idealistic, Democratic) part of the entire college-graduate  28%, which stands in opposition to the dominant (practical, Republican) part of the educated elite. As it happens, those with advanced degrees tend to end up in the Democratic dominated part of the dominant sector, whereas the bachelor’s-only are more evenly divided between the parties. This does make sense, since many higher degrees are “impractical”, and many ambitious, talented people leave school just because they want quick success. (I suspect that there’s a R/D continuum running from business and economics majors at one end of the spectrum through the other practical fields, the liberal arts, and the humanities to the arts).

One peculiarity I noted before is that one way of reading the data, given the voting patterns, would be to think of the Stupid Voters as being those with bachelor’s degrees who didn’t continue their educations. This would make liberal elitists seem to be aspiring aristocrats or technocrats who want to abolish popular government entirely and disenfranchise the bottom 90% of the population, and while this certainly misrepresents the actual situation, I now and then do run into individuals whose personal opinions amount to something like that.

When I first used the term "wonk demographic”, it was something of a joke. Nonetheless, there are some important points here. First, the highly educated are not a numerically insignificant, effete group which can be disdained: they’re a hefty 18% bloc when election time come around. Second, the highly educated, because of their education and expertise, tend to empathize with other experts, including the political wonks who control the Democratic Party. They tend to forget that expertise is specialized by topic and that power goes with the official position held regardless of the positionholder's credentialization, so that to a PhD running a political campaign or a government office a generic PhD from the general population is just another layman outsider and a single voting unit.

I’m still working on the idea that Democrats lose because their educational background makes them unfit for conflict and hard bargaining. That’s complicated by the fact that the real wonks, the mercenary pros, may well be getting everything they want when they “lose” a fight with the Republicans. So perhaps my point should be that wannabe wonks always lose their debates with the real, hardcore, bloody-minded wonks (e.g. Rahm Emmanuel), and that the real wonks are simply manipulating the highly-educated wannabes the same way they manipulate every other voting demographic, using various sorts of wonky secret handshakes in order to do that.


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Not just money (4.00 / 1)
Bringing new voters from the lower orders into the party would almost certainly require policy proposals which would negatively impact the big-money people, and even if the Democratic Party started winning elections that way, the boodle coming in would be reduced, and boodle is what pays the mercenary pros at the party headquarters.

This is true, but not the whole story. The other issue is that an influx of new voters (who presumably would have different interests than existing voters and who likely would only be mobilized by new kinds of appeals) would likely shift the power within the party.  Key players depend on the existing voting patterns and on the big money / move to the middle / small ball / PR and no mobilization model.  

The Democratic Leadership Conference was created, in part, to challenge the notion that mobilization minorities and the poor was an good way to win elections.  The entire New Democrat approach rests on these assumptions.

Of course, these dynamics and the financial ones you mentioned reinforce each other.

(P.S. If you want more populist cred, try adding this to Pierre - Mike Elk's My Grandmother Takes a Stand for Gay Marriage in Church Despite Being a Glenn Beck Follower.)

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


Secularism, Religion, and Stupid Voters (0.00 / 0)
One idea I would like to see explored more is the degree to which a more secular liberal wonk demographic has disdain for a more religious, less educated class.  

I see a lot of what you call the "Stupid Voter" meme in discussions about the voting behavior of religious conservatives.  I might even guess that the Democratic Party's seeming hostility to populism is partly motivated by a desire to protect Roe v Wade.  I think we saw a little of it come out with some on the left being negative towards the more religious African-American community in the wake of California's Prop 8.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


That's the biggest crock of shit yet. (4.00 / 5)
Forced childbirth is not a populist issue and forced childbirthers are in no way, shape or form the "victims" of anything.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
What is populism? (0.00 / 0)
Some see it as specifically anti-corporate in nature.  Some insist it should only really be used to refer to the Populist Party of American history.

One interpretation is that populism involves democratization that takes power from the elites and gives it to the people.  You're kidding yourself if you think that abortion is not something that has been decided on the elite level with little input from the masses.  

Now, I'm not saying that Roe v Wade should be overturned.  What I am saying is that the process of how we got to the current status quo on abortion is possibly just as messed up as what has created our corporate culture.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
"Keeping women down" (4.00 / 3)
like "keeping blacks/gays/Jews etc. down" is not populism.

Populism is the power of people, and all of those groups are like it or not, PEOPLE.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
So By That Logic, Integration Is Deeply Problematic, Too (4.00 / 1)
This:

Now, I'm not saying that Roe v Wade should be overturned.  What I am saying is that the process of how we got to the current status quo on abortion is possibly just as messed up as what has created our corporate culture.

Is logically equivalent to this:

Now, I'm not saying that Brown v Board of Education should be overturned.  What I am saying is that the process of how we got to the current status quo on civil rights is possibly just as messed up as what has created our corporate culture.

Or hadn't you noticed?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I noticed (0.00 / 0)
I am more process-oriented than you and more tolerant of bad outcomes reached by democratic means.  I'm sympathetic to Russ Feingold when he votes against the orthodox progressive position because he is a process hawk.  For example, I am very understanding of why he does not want to use budget reconciliation to address health care reform.

However, I would also argue that I don't necessarily see equivalence in how the different movements for black civil rights and abortion rights have played out.  I also don't deny the possibility that a messed-up process can still create a desired output.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
Process-Obsession (4.00 / 2)
was the great weakness of the Progressive movement.  The substitution of a substantive focus was the great achievement of the New Deal era.

Guess which one made more of a difference in the lives of tens hundreds of millions of people?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I'm well aware of that (0.00 / 0)
Of course, I also think of emphasis on the "rule of law" as process obsession.

It's a narrow line I am treading here, not that I have any influence on the process.  For now, I think that a little bit of obsession towards process democratization is what is necessary to do universal voter registration and fix or abolish the Senate.

However, unlike the Progressives of yore, I don't expect that a better process will magically unchain America and lead to better outcomes.  I just want to change the battlefield to something where the left has a better fighting chance.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
Yes, we have to play with the cards that are dealt to us in the first place... (0.00 / 0)
...and notrefuse to use a joker simply because we believe it shouldn't be allowed in the game. This doens't say we shouldn't try to change the rules, but a long as they're vaild, we have to use them to our advantage.

I just recently had an experience where misguided principle trumped every reason. At a discussion at FDL, another commenter insited on progressive Senators never filibustering, because the filibuster is undemocratic (right) and thus should never be used by real democrats (horribly wrong). Well, if there are people who elevate priniciple to a level where they actually stand in the way of getting anohter done, including overturning the rules who stand in the way of that principle, it's no surprise if progressives will have the lower hand time and again...


[ Parent ]
You mean (0.00 / 0)
"bad outcomes that affect people other than my precious self."

It's not called being process-oriented it's called being a selfish ass.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
No (0.00 / 0)
I mean, bad outcomes that affect people including my "precious self".

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
So you would be okay (0.00 / 0)
if, for example, a law was passed mandating that you must give me your kidney if and when I need it?

You won't be compensated for your time or suffering, of course. And tough luck if you have to miss work, or can't help you family while you're in the hospital. But you see I need that kidney and my life is important and you don't need two of them anyway.

Oh and also I claim the right to take your children's kidneys, or your wife's or whoever has the right blood type.

You are okay with this?

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
These are tricky questions (4.00 / 5)
There is a liberal demographic which fears populism  based on the social questions: gay rights, women's rights, and racial issues. There are also democrats who define populism in this way -- get the Southern white vote.

What needs to be done is to bump old fashioned populist (economic) issues ahead of social issues, and to take genuinely populist stands on these issues. As far a African American voters are concerned, they remain the most loyal Democratic group despite their own opinions about the party's stand on gay rights, and many of their reasons for supporting Democrats are based on the old labor issues.

The African American community, considering its economic situation is seemingly much more politically aware and mobilized than comparable non-black groups. (This is a guess -- please someone correct me if I'm wrong, and provide data if I'm right.) Even though the Democrats tend to recruit African Americans on racial issues, the populist (economic) issues on which the Democrats have been weakening for decades.

My guess is that if the whole less-educated  group were as well mobilized as the African American community, the Democrats would be in a stronger position. The energy the Republicans put into voter suppression indicates that they think that these people will be Democrats (even though DLC apologists vigorously deny that).  


[ Parent ]
African American political awareness (0.00 / 0)
I have read political science research that African Americans were less aware of national issues, but more aware of local issues, especially if there was a black candidate or office-holder involved.  That research was probably done in the '90s, so maybe something has changed since then.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
What Counts As 'Knowledge' Or 'Awareness'? (4.00 / 2)
I recall attending a townhall meeting with a black Congressman, Julian Dixon, around the time of the Gulf War.  I can't remember precisely why I was there, but I was one of very few whites, and I did know several prominent black activists from his district from the 1988 Jackson campaign, and subsequent work together.  Let me tell you, he was expecting a relatively easy time of things once he invoked the name of Colin Powell, but he was sorely mistaken--the crowd just tore him apart.

I've also been to a number of town halls over the years with other black representatives, and the level of awareness re national issues seems noticeably higher than the white-majority town halls I've been to.  But I'm not certain how well that gap might be captured by your average poll.  Of course, a town hall's not necessarily representative of the voter population as a whole, but it is indicative of a potential problem.  The things these people were familiar with might not even be on the radar of white political discourse.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
From what I can recall (0.00 / 0)
One example was that black citizens were less capable than whites in naming national political figures, but more able to name local political figures, especially if those politicians were black.  So it's a test of knowledge about the US Attorney General vs the city superintendent of schools.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
That's a problematic measure (4.00 / 2)
Generally, (if I remember this right) studies have also shown that people who know who hold different positions (like vice president, or speaker) tend to also know about certain policy issues. Which issues? The ones that are generally talked about in the corporate media, the same media that talks a lot about those particular office holders. What elements of those issues? The elements that tend to get play in those media outlets.

What's left out is whether people know about issues that matter. Not knowing about things that interest the Village is not the same as not knowing about things.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
Which issues matter? (0.00 / 0)
And do we consider voters to be "stupid" if what matters to them is different from what matters to us?

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
I don't (4.00 / 2)
Quite the reverse, in fact. The most prominent decisions, the ones that get the most play, in my opinion tend to be the least important. I think people should pay more attention to the Fed and less to the US Supreme Court, for example. But I think a good deal of social science uses the idea that Americans are not tuned into elite concerns as proof that they are "stupid."  

Personally, I think the masses have the better argument - they support many progressive policies (like SS and Medicare) that elites do not, the support big cuts in defense spending once they are told what we are already spending, they support progressive taxation to pay for policies which seek to promote economic security and opportunity and they are far less supportive of war (and when they do support it, do so for less noxious reasons.)

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
Right (0.00 / 0)
It's a good handy measure for a limited universe.

Some of the best uses I've seen made of it show that people with more such knowledge tend to have more coherent political views.   This was the case, for example, in Free and Cantril's 1967 classic Political beliefs of Americans; a study of public opinion.

But particularly now, in a much more heavily mediated political environment, it's not clear to what extent that sort of result might still have the same meaning.

Anti-government health care, and pro-Medicare, anyone?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Right (4.00 / 2)
I suspected as much.

My take on this is that this sort of "identify a political figure" test is a pretty good proxy for knowledge in general among a relatively homogeneous population.  It's certainly a time-honored measure, and it makes good sense.  But I'm not aware of any research (not saying it doesn't exist, just that I know of none) that shows this measure is necessarily valid across significant demographic divisions.

My basic point: It's only natural for people to be more aware of poltiticians who both have an impact on their lives, and whom they can hope to influence.  Given that public housing/urban development, veterans affairs and educational issues generally impact blacks more, it could well be the case that more blacks can ID the head of HUD, the VA and Dept. of Education than whites can.  But those questions are not regularly asked.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
What you say makes me thing of (0.00 / 0)
This Booman post about the differences between black/white/academic/urban/union progressives and the DKos diaries he links to.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
OK, I looked it up (0.00 / 0)
One survey I have seen referenced is the 1989 Survey of Political Knowledge.  It wasn't just naming political figures and knowing political history.  There are huge racial gaps on questions like "what is a veto", "define recession", and "what are the first ten amendments called".

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
To me this is pretty irrelevant (4.00 / 2)
It's harmful to rate voters on their worthiness to vote, and while I realize that that's not quite what's happening here, an outsider could read it that way.

Level of mobilization (percent voting) is the importan variable, along with a rough knowledge of what's at stake. (From my point of view, a rough populist knowledge.)

In terms of the "how well informed are they game, when people get too virtuoso in their knowledge of things like the CBO's criteria for rating bills or the parliamentarian's criteria for when reconciliation is allowed, a red flag goes up for me. I immediately suspect such inside players as either being easily distracted with trivia, or else political insiders with all of the bad attitudes and conflicts of interests that insiders have.

For example, people speak reverentially of Sen. Byrd and his knowledge of the Senate traditions, but if it were up to me about two thirds of the Senate traditions would be disappeared forever.  


[ Parent ]
Well, Of Course (4.00 / 2)
African-Americans can't define "recession."

Can fish define "water"?

From my March, 2008 diary,
"Two Long Recessions":

As concerns rise about a looming recession, there have been a couple of reminders recently about much longer recessions that generally pass unnoticed:

(1)   On March 10, the LA Times carried an Op-Ed, "Our three-decade recession: The American quality of life has been going downhill since 1975," by Robert Costanza, which dealt with the inadequacy of GDP as an indicator of economic growth that produces real value, and talked about alternatives, including the Genuine Progress Indicator, which I discussed in my diary, "Republicans Are BAD For The Economy", back in early February.

(2)  But if three decades seems like a long recession, what about a permanent one?  That's the subject of a March 6 post at Facing South, the blog of the Institute for Southern Studies/Southern Exposure, "Black America is in a permanent recession"

How many whites, I wonder, have any idea what the black unemployment rate is like?  What does this say about their level of political knowledge?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The best Democrat I ever met (4.00 / 5)
was an elderly Black gentleman I canvassed for John Kerry in Milwaukee back in 2004.

I had first met his daughter on the other side of the street, who told me to be sure to canvass her father.  I was glad I took her advice.

I knocked on his door and he welcomed me in.  He was wearing a T-Shirt from the Laborers Union.  On every wall were various pictures and statues of Jesus.  "What have I gotten myself into," I wondered.

He proceeded to regale me with stories of his conversations with friends and acquaintances, in particular one African-American woman who said she could not support John Kerry because of his stand on abortion, for which she expected him to go to hell.  He then described for me the argument he used to turn her around.

"John Kerry is not going to hell for his stand on abortion.  I don't favor abortion - but that's between the woman and God.  It's none of John Kerry's business or yours whether she gets an abortion or not.  I can't believe something like that would make you vote Republican."

And that did the trick.  Not the argument any of us would use, but in fact it's a near-perfect rendering of the pro-choice position from a religious perspective.

We (the netroots) have to understand better the many paths to a truly progressive politics and not fall for the crutch of blaming "stupid voters".

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
That is precisely the argument (0.00 / 0)
I use with the religious. It is not our place to enforce God's law. Do you think God so feeble he needs you or the state to enforce his judgment? Jesus forgave the prostitute, not because she was innocent of violating Biblical law - clearly, she was not - but because the judging of that is not up to man.  

[ Parent ]
things we bump into (0.00 / 0)
I see a lot of what you call the "Stupid Voter" meme in discussions about the voting behavior of religious conservatives

This "stupidity" revolves by and large around the "stupidity" inherent in investing a cosmogenic sense of reality in the absurd belief that The Meaning Of Life can be reduced down [both ontologically and teleologically] to the idea there is but one God and, as fate would have it, that God happens to be mine.

It means shoving aside the reality that literlly hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of others are embracing the same point of view about hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of equally conflicting and contradictory additional Gods.

Thus this myopic "mind set" is really about human psychology more than anything else. It is about how each of us [in our own way] settle into one or another embodiment of Paul's "authoritarian" agenda.

Maybe God is the Authority. Maybe Reason is.

But always we come back to the same thing: What can we know about things such as this? And what will we never know?

In other words, what are the limits of language, of human knowledge itself, in explicating relationships framed in the antinomies existential philosophers ever bring to the surface when we attempt to integrate words and worlds?


[ Parent ]
You seem to have no idea (4.00 / 2)
what this conversation you have wandered into is about. It is not about who is stupid, it is a rejection of the idea that we can usefully analyze politics by distinguishing people on this basis.

We do not always come back to the same thing. You do - because you talk about the same thing no matter what the conversation is about. That is not because you are saying anything useful or profound, its because you are not listening.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
Well, At Least On The Bright Side... (0.00 / 0)
We're getting agonizingly clear on who's stupid here, and what their favorite memes are.

I've always thought of stupidity in terms of "stupor" as closely linked to being oblivious to what's around one.  It's not a measure of intelligence, directly, although there's a general over-all correlation.  But it's something I've always perceived as something distinct.

It's not necessarily something distinct for the sake of the "stupid voter" meme in general, as that's just a relatively casual verbal construct.  But when one encounters a repeated refusal to distinguish between the meme and actual lack of intelligence or sophistication, then that certainly is a sign of stupidity, no matter how seemingly sophisticated the associated blather may be.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
what ad hominems? (0.00 / 0)
We're getting agonizingly clear on who's stupid here, and what their favorite memes are.

Wow, with progressive allies like this, who needs, uh, Glenn Beck, right?

The irony being of course that substantively on most issues relating to "the news" we both more or less subscribe to the same left-wing "values".

But I think about the relationship between "values" and actual human behavior from the perspective of 1] dasein 2] epistemology  3] human psychology 3] political economy and 4] the inherent limitations of language in discussing these relationships.

Existentially, as it were.

Why do I always reduce you to this sort of bile, Paul? If you have no respect for my opinions, skip them. Your scathing spitballs say more about you than about me.

Why is that?


[ Parent ]
"We're getting agonizingly clear on who's stupid here" Uh, Paul... (0.00 / 0)
...I know you have read John's story but somehow this statement looks as if you're not ready yet to draw the conclusions from it. Come on, this is your outreach effort? Really?
:D

[ Parent ]
sigh.... (0.00 / 0)
You know Dave, I never reduce your arguments down to, well, you. Do I?

If my points are irrelevant to the discussion, don't read them.

I happen to think they are though. So I'll keep posting them.

What I "listen" for are the connections between "ideas" and the "for all practical purpose" implications of words grounded in the reality of the world we live in.

If you want to believe I'm just talking [out of ignorance] to myself instead then, by all means, continue to underestimate me. Lots of people have.


[ Parent ]
This Is A Fantastic Post, John (4.00 / 4)
And I must admit, I'm still stumped at coming up with a comprehensive response.  So I'll just take a little nibble on this:

When smart, well-paid, experienced people fail in stupid ways, it's always a good idea to ask whether their actual and their professed goals are different. There are many reasons to think that this is what is happening in the present case. The Democratic Party is a business like any other, and just as newspapers get their money from advertisers, and not from readers, the Democratic Party gets its money from donors rather than from voters. Bringing new voters from the lower orders into the party would almost certainly require policy proposals which would negatively impact the big-money people, and even if the Democratic Party started winning elections that way, the boodle coming in would be reduced, and boodle is what pays the mercenary pros at the party headquarters.

I think there's something else important going on that helps stabilize this situation beyond the boodle, and that's plain old social structure.  The big donors and the top party operatives are part of the same social set--or at least they socialize enough with one another for business reasons that act in ways that mimic those of people from a common social set.  They have internalized norms and expectations that tend to control interactions among a homogeneous social group.  And part of this is that they all tend to think alike, even the ones who think that they differ deeply over this or that issue.

One direct result of this, is that they will openly scoff at your description above.  Money unites them so profoundly that it is like water uniting all the fish in the ocean.  Of course they can't see it.  They all agree that it's absurd.  You're the one who's all wet.

And the "stupid voter" meme, IMHO, is a sort of trickle-down phenomena that derives from this.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


words for them (0.00 / 0)
The big donors and the top party operatives are part of the same social set--or at least they socialize enough with one another for business reasons that act in ways that mimic those of people from a common social set.  They have internalized norms and expectations that tend to control interactions among a homogeneous social group

We have words for people like this: Bilderberg, Council On Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission...the Clintonian/DLC triangulation of the Democratic and Republican party leadership with Wall Street.

Money and power.

Ah, but because they are complex human beings, few can actually be reduced down to this. The ambiguities will ever curtail any attempt to speak with words like "conspiracy", "evil", "Ruling Class" etc.

No doubt, the New World Order has its fair share of bleeding heart, welfare state "liberals" in attendance. Not all of them are war criminal like Kissinger.


[ Parent ]
I guess I'll jump in here because reading your diary I flagged as questionable: (0.00 / 0)
The Democratic Party is a business like any other, and just as newspapers get their money from advertisers, and not from readers, the Democratic Party gets its money from donors rather than from voters. Bringing new voters from the lower orders into the party would almost certainly require policy proposals which would negatively impact the big-money people, and even if the Democratic Party started winning elections that way, the boodle coming in would be reduced, and boodle is what pays the mercenary pros at the party headquarters.

Do you think the Republican Party gets its donors from voters? Big corporate money funds the think tanks that pump out the ideas, organize the voters, etc. Despite successful recruitments such as the teabaggers and the larger group of evangelicals, which I believe are the so-called "lower order" (low-income, little education) voters, Republicans certainly do not espouse policies that benefit these groups. Single-payer health care and closing corporate tax loopholes would benefit these middling taxpayers, but the Republican Party does not promote these policies.

The Republicans don't promise and aren't selling policies that benefit any group of people. Republicans (Conservatives) rely on their big government/big spending Democrats meme to rally their troops to follow them no matter what. Abortion is a convenient political football to toss around and collect collateral voters.


[ Parent ]
Republican populism is fake, but Democratic elitism is real (0.00 / 0)
The "lower order" voters I was talking about were low-information voters who sometimes vote Republican and non-voters. I wasn't saying that poor people are Republicans.

Teapartiers are told to dress down for events. I suspect that plenty of them are pretty well of. Same for evangelicals; Michelle Bachmann is on the crazy end of evangelical, but she was pretty well off even before going to Congress. ("Prosperity theology" targets well-off people.)


[ Parent ]
Well then, that's just the "stupid voter meme" expressed differently (0.00 / 0)
The "lower order" voters I was talking about were low-information voters who sometimes vote Republican and non-voters. I wasn't saying that poor people are Republicans.

Your follow up, teapartiers and evangelicals who "dress down" for events, as told, are "low information" - doesn't really make sense.

One would have to be "high information" to even know about a tea party event, much less make the effort to actually participate.

How about this: Lower order = low information registered Democrats who vote for fake Democrats. That would make more sense.

Oh, but are these fake Democrats the "elite" of the party?

Therein lies the problem. The Democratic Party itself needs to redefine itself for the voters. If it's going to be for corporate America, and not for it's traditional (in the modern era) voting groups - blacks, women, working class, then that's what needs to be exposed.

They say the Republican Party is in an identity crisis. With the way Obama's presidency is going, it seems the Democratic Party ought to reconsider it's identity, lest the parties merge and there's nothing left but corporate america.


[ Parent ]
You're not reading very well (0.00 / 0)
It's very hard to respond to misreadings. I did not say that teapartiers and evangelicals are low-information voters. They're hardcore Republicans, a different group.

I named three different groups, hardcore Republicans, non-voters, and low information voters who sometimes vote Republican.


[ Parent ]
You did not name three different groups in the segment I was responding to: (0.00 / 0)
This is the comment you wrote, all of it:

The "lower order" voters I was talking about were low-information voters who sometimes vote Republican and non-voters. I wasn't saying that poor people are Republicans.

Teapartiers are told to dress down for events. I suspect that plenty of them are pretty well of. Same for evangelicals; Michelle Bachmann is on the crazy end of evangelical, but she was pretty well off even before going to Congress. ("Prosperity theology" targets well-off people.)

Not to worry. I'm sure it's just something you overlooked.


[ Parent ]
I think the rural/urban cultural stereotypes are more powerful than smart/stupid stereotypes (0.00 / 0)
Liberals think of the typical Republican as an illiterate hillbilly Holy Roller, and conservatives think of the typical Democrat as an AIDS-infected prostitute, and fantasies of these types decide elections.

These sound like they are more dependent upon the regional, negative stereotypes of the Rural Vs Urban split than they are related to education or intelligence.


They overlap (4.00 / 1)
The US is really only about 15-25% rural any more, depending on how you count. There are a lot of people living in middle sized cities, though, who identify with "country". Bakersfield is 300,000+ Nashville is 600,000+.  

[ Parent ]
It's Worth Noting (4.00 / 1)
That Jesse Jackson forged strong ties with Iowa farmers in economic distress in his first Presidential run in 1984.  In 1988, he drew the largest campaign crowds by far.  But then, just as in 2004, the Iowan primary voters wonkified themselves to vote more "rationally" and "strategically" and Jackson would have to wait a while to really get his momentum.

Yet, the evidence was there for the Dem Party as a whole--the GOP was screwing small farmers, and with them all of rural America.  Jackson was showing the way to win that entire population back, and the party simply ignored it, because they had no interest in it.

The Dems have a natural material advantage with rural voters---if and only if they are willing to match their historic promises of old.  OTOH, culture does not automatically favor conservatives or Republicans. The Reps cherry-pick the rural cultural themes they can use, but there are just as many progressive themes they ignore. The pioneers, for example, were both ruggedly self-reliant types, and profoundly interdependent with a strongly Biblical/Social Gospel foundation.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Friends of mine here in rural Minnesota invited Jackson to speak (4.00 / 1)
He was very effective. As I remember, the Democratic Party changed the rules afterwards to make sure that no more Jesse Jacksons would run for President.

[ Parent ]
Yes, wasn't it more Jackson's race and personality (0.00 / 0)
that turned the Dem Party off, rather than their interests?

The Party didn't think Jackson was electable. He wasn't the polite Black, as Obama and Tiger Woods are.


[ Parent ]
They always say "electability" (4.00 / 1)
They were against him in every way so you really don't have to choose.

"Electability" became a joke during the 2008 primaries because at some point a lot of people were supporting candidates they didn't like especially because they thought other people liked him or her.


[ Parent ]
in other words, ignorance (4.00 / 1)
The educated tend to define their own identity and their relationship to the rest of the human world in terms of their own educational success and their difference from those without it.

With respect to the following issues....

*abortion
*hunting
*the role of government
*pornography
*capital punishment
*economic justice
*military conscription
*gun control
*socislism vs. capitalism
*etc etc etc

....what is the smart and what is stupid point of view?

How can we educate ourselves to be more rational about these things?

Here, a liberal agenda and a conservative agenda are essentially interchangable. And by that I mean that one set of arguments is not necessarily more or less rational, more or less ethical than the other set. They just flow from a different set of assumptions [premises] about human behavior.

But there are issues related to economic and foreign policy, in which a more reasonable distinction can be made between an informed and an uninformed point of view.

Take, for example, the current health care debate.

Generally, you hear arguments about "principle", arguments that revolve around political philosophy. In particular, arguments relating to the role government ought or ought not to play in the health care of its citizens.

On the other hand, you also hear arguments about how this relationship does, in fact, play itself out in the real world.

The first set of arguments can never be resolved. But the second set often involves a ton of stupidity. Or what I prefer to call ignorance. In America today, crony capitalism, the insidious and incestuous relationship between econonic power in New York and political power in Washington sustains a system in which the interests of Wall Street overwhelmingly superce the interests of Main Street in Congress.

Here, millions of Americans are profoundly ignorant of how state capitalism unfolds systemically inside the beltway. And to the extent they are democracy is subverted time and again by the rich and powerful denizens of our Bilderberg, Council On Foreign Relations world.


Terrific post and yes, your populist cred is very much intact. (4.00 / 5)
I don't really have anything to add, except to say you've nailed why the Democratic Party is so totally dysfunctional. They just can't accept that we're not all a bunch of rubes... and so they ever so righteously piss on us at the first opportunity.

In my life, I've met precious few people of that ilk that has ever managed to drop that mindset in favor of a more realistic assessment of things. It's undoubtedly why Upton Sinclair said (I'm paraphrasing?), "You can't get a man to understand something his paycheck demands he not understand."

In the end, class is still very much at the heart of this.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


Party always problematic in America (0.00 / 0)
My working hypothesis is that, at least currently, there is just the Corporate Party, but, courtesy of Duverger's Law, they have to operate as two; the teabaggers and the netroots are just their to provide some plausible differences in ideological content between the two.

Even historically, there's been a problem - for instance, from 1870 to 1968, gradually fading to Zell Miller around the turn of the century, the Dems were the repository of Southern votes, of whatever shade.

A lot of it was conservative - but the race-baiters were often liberal on other issues (for instance, Bilbo was a rabid New Dealer in the early FDR days).

And the lingering of New England ex-Federalists in the GOP has been astonishing. (Not to mention the Progressive insurgents like LaFollette who mostly went GOP.)

These days, the Poole-Rosenthal sort of ideological scoring (based on roll call votes) shows that these differences have shaken out, to the extent that the parties (in Congress, at least) no longer have the common zone inhabited by Boll Weevils and Yankee Republicans of a few decades ago.

But - this kind of stat fails to pick up a lot of ideological content.

For instance, a common complaint against Lieberman (who is middle of the road on something like a P-R or Progressive Punch list of Dem senators) is that he is loyal except when it matters.

And when it matters is not something that scoring methods easily factor in.

It's worse than that, though: MCs may vote for many different reasons that confound a simple score: when they're logrolling, for instance; or when the content of the vote is mostly partisan (as applies to almost all House procedural votes, say).

For a period (from the rise of industrial unionism to the late 60s) the Dems were marked clearly by their association with the labor unions (the CIO element, in particular - the AFL element were chronically conservative), but that association has been pretty weak for decades.

As exemplified by the current health care legislation, the fact that the Senate parties are neatly separated by ideological score says little about the likelihood that any particular provision will be proposed or passed. (Crudely, the average Senate score, and hence the average Dem Senate score, is just too far to the right to pass single payer or (probably) any other worthwhile reform of any great scope.)

Plus - even supposing that the ideologies manifested by Dem MCs are skewed to the right of their real ideologies - that doesn't help lefties looking to move legislative content leftwards.

That skew (if it exists) is clearly driven by the need to deliver to the Interests in exchange for the moolah necessary to get reelected. And lefties just don't have that kind of dough.

And that constraint, so far as I can see, is not going to change this side of a civil war or disaster of similar magnitude.


LOL... (4.00 / 1)
That's funny... I always use the Stupid Voter saying just out of frustration because I can't figure out WHY some of these people vote for the GOP.   Never thought of it literally like this.

Great piece, John (0.00 / 0)
I'm glad Paul referenced it (and insisted).

I see a lot of problems with this "stupid voter meme" analysis (4.00 / 1)
And I don't think Democratic Party insiders use it.

Republican Party insiders are more likely to use it, as they successfully recruit these people. You'd say I'm missing the point of your diary with this comment, but really, do you think Dem Party elite think this way?

Here's a few places where your diary put up red flags for me:

Low-information voters decide how to vote based on ambient information (i.e., free media and local scuttlebutt), and the free media are predominantly right wing.

What free media are you talking about? The internet has got to be the largest source of free media. That would be us, and we are not right wing. Low-information and free media does not follow in the age of the internet.

Over a period of decades these [conservative] think tanks have propagated their ideas everywhere, and their ideas have thus have become "ambient".

This ignores the Washington-Wall Street-Corporate connection. But, then again, we're talking about voters. If enough voters could become educated about Progressive values in governing, the voters could go a long way toward disrupting the big money connections and corruption.

But you took that possibility away saying if the Dems actually courted voters with policy they'd lose their corporate backing.

Talking about "wonks," you write:

It puts them in control since they're the only ones who really understand it, and  they especially love it because it allows them (ever-so-politely) to flip off the Democratic voters who expected better. The Democratic Party is going to make a lot of money from the failure of healthcare reform.

First, the Dem Party is not going to make a lot of money from the failure of healthcare reform, it is going to lose elections. You're right about that, the Dem Party has no one but itself to blame.

Next, policy wonks and parliamentary procedures experts understand the machinations of Congress, but you lose me with "they especially love" to flip off Dem voters. Career liberals notwithstanding, I don't believe anyone in the Dem Party leadership consciously looks for ways to flip on their constituency. This is a naïve analysis and not based in reality.

If it's not already clear, I don't agree with your characterization of wonks as sellouts. They're just people, like you and me, with jobs to do. Their degree of sellout depends on their employer.

The following, from your Appendix 1, is the most plausible explanation for the state of our republic, much more so than whether we think voters or bureaucrats are stupid. I say this having never heard of this French author "Bourdieu":

Citing a French author will tarnish my populist cred, but the Republican-Democratic split is a lot like Bourdieu's split between the dominant part of the dominant class (business, industry, finance, the police, and the military) and the dominated part of the dominant class (education, social services, and the arts). These two sectors trade the control of government back and forth...


A lot to respond to (0.00 / 0)
TV and radio are the free media I was talking about.

Neither Democratic nor Republican insiders have any respect for the voters. (At the 2008 Dem convention the Dem pros sneered at the delegates on the floor, who were actually the party loyalists). But the people I have heard talking about "stupid voters" are educated liberal Democrats on the internet, not usually party leaders.

The Democratic pros and officeholders have a history of failing their constituents, including the party rank and file and volunteers. They also have a history of making lots of money even when the Democrats lose. What I've written here is my own understanding of what's been happening. I makes especially good sense of the weak healthcare reform.

There are other criticisms you've made that I don't understand.


[ Parent ]
"Corporate media" would be better, imho. (0.00 / 0)
And then, I interprete this "the voters could go a long way toward disrupting the big money connections and corruption" as a misinterpretation of your points about the Dem party mainly be driven by big money interests. Michelle seems to understand you as saying that this bad status quo can't be changed. Actually, you don't say that anywhere, and I'm sure you don't believe that either, but your statements can be misunderstood in that way. Maybe that this is simply the undeniable status quo, which of course should be fought, should be made more clear.

And as for this statement in your response: "But the people I have heard talking about "stupid voters" are educated liberal Democrats on the internet, not usually party leaders." Hmm, how many party leaders do you know privately? Do you think it's fair to compare the much more open and honest statements on internet discussion boards with the public statements of politicians? This is a bit like comparing apples with oranges. We can't be sure at all how "party leaders" talk about the "stupid voter" issue when under four eyes with friends and confidants. Imho we shouldn't conclude that those "VIPs" are any better than liberal wonks we know!


[ Parent ]
Where's George Soros? (0.00 / 0)
If it were "politically possible" to pass single-payer, for example, the Democratic Party would lose incredible amounts of money from key donors in the medical biz. Single-payer might make the voters ecstatically happy, but these happy voters are not at all likely to replace the money the party lost.

I often wonder what prevents progressives from taking over state Democratic parties the way the evangelicals took over state Republican party organizations starting in the 1980s (and still control in many states)? This takeover was one of the key first steps to making Republican ideas ambient nationally, then and now. Subvert the current Democratic party from within, one state at a time. Instead of trying to replace medical biz money for the national Democratic party, replace the party itself. Then again, you would have to couple this take over with a viable campaign finance reform effort (which could be done but few progressives seem interested to discuss and/or debate).

I also wonder what prevents George Soros and others from funding think tanks to promote progressive ideas? Surely for every Scaife and member of the Coors family progressives could find a motivated, passionate wealthy person who would fund think tanks for $5-15 million a year.

Finally, the way Howard Dean's 50-state strategy helped get Obama elected only to be dismantled upon Obama's election clued me in that we were back in the 1990s where the national party rules and they care little about every state, only about groups and states the elites believe can get them elected.

Excellent article, John, thank you!


Baffles me (0.00 / 0)
The Democratic money people seem very interested in message development or media in general. Democrats waste hundreds of millions on election year TV orgies that leave nothing permanent behind, but are stingy about more lasting stuff.

Other times when this came up we speculated that very few big money people are very progressive. Stands to reason.


[ Parent ]
Be the Media (4.00 / 4)
I addressed the "stupid voter" issue in a post last year ( http://www.truthout.org/articl... ), focusing on how counterproductive (stupid) it is to approach people you think are stupid and ask them to vote with you - that is, assuming you approach them at all. I think part of it is we don't even know how to speak the language. ("Speaking American: How the Democrats Can Win in the Nineties" by David Kusnet is a good primer.)

But I'll share two points (one very unwonkily practical).

First, the parties are, by definition, all about electing candidates. Democrats especially focus on finding salable candidates rather than salable messages, and having few think tanks makes developing salable messaging something they don't waste campaign money on outside of campaigns. If it's not directly connected to electing candidates, it's not in their mission statement.

It should be. If you want people to vote like progressives, it just might help if they think like progressives. The GOP and their communications arms have spent millions over the last couple of generations training people to think like conservatives. Overton's Window - whatever. They've been very successful. Democrats aren't even in the game. But how can progressives push back without the GOP's resources?

So, second, a few campaign vets in our district decided we didn't need a George Soros to fund a think tank, and we didn't need to be Rupert Murdock or Roger Ailes to be the media. If you can't compete dollar for dollar with a think tank, go grassroots. Really grassroots. Think 50 State Strategy with radio.

As a pilot project, we formed a 527 ( bluecentury.org ) that wrote, produced and funded 1,100 thirty second ads that ran in our market in 2008. In a small-to-medium-sized red-state market like ours, we averaged $8 a throw. We'd wrap a progressive message around an All-American "register, vote, volunteer" GOTV tagline and figuratively heave it through people's windows at drive time on AM talk radio. Even the Limbaugh channel (much more than $8/ea.) couldn't turn us down. Nonpartisan, nonthreatening good citizenship stuff, but with a progressive twist.

Leadership is about meeting people where they are and leading them to where you want to go. The best ads take an aikido approach. Embrace a conservative meme people have already internalized and turn it in a progressive direction. I can't describe them here, but you can listen on our site. 30 sec. And repeat, repeat, repeat.

It's not about electing candidates. It's about - slowly - getting people to see the world like progressives, just as conservatives did, only more grassroots. The idea is to plant seeds today that someone else harvests tomorrow. And if we could do it here, mostly out of our own pockets, other groups could replicate the concept in small markets in red states across the country. We have no consumer penetration data - can't afford it. We don't know how well it worked. But as far as we know, few others have even thought of this. Food for thought.

( bluecentury.org ) We're on hold until sometime in 2010.


Taking Back America, One Radio at a Time.


[ Parent ]
And Don't Forget the Internets (0.00 / 0)
This is brilliant and thank you, Tom, for pointing out Blue Century and your grassroots approach. I also think YouTube is ready made for people who can do what you describe: take common possibly public service messages and make a video that amuses people enough to become viral. God knows there are many fat juicy targets like Wal Mart and such to aim at.

I tend towards actions rather than ideas simply because I don't have the intellectual education. So this sort of basic approach is, in my view, exactly what progressives should discuss and make available to everyone interested.


[ Parent ]
Now that there's no danger to "wreck the thread", two points. (4.00 / 1)
I see two problematic statements in this story, not essential ones, but they should be corrected nevertheless:
"However you define stupidity, half the population is by definition stupider than average." Uh, no, not by definition. In reality this may be so IF IQ is distributed in a symmetrical curve, but that would be a coincidence. To be totally accurate, this statement should run "However you define stupidity, half the population is by definition stupider than the median". That is unquestionably true, as by defintion there is an equal number of people on both sides of the median IQ.

And then, you write: "This is not true in aristocracies or restricted-franchise democracies, and there are in fact people in the US who want to return to the restricted franchise and restrict voting to those who are capable of voting intelligently. These people are called "Republicans"."

Well, there sure some people somewhere who want some kind of a meritocracy based on intelligence, but that's not the idea behind the rethuglican "voter-discouragement and franchise-restriction programs". See, we know the GOP is driven by a desire to enhance their chances at the elections (even with unfair means) and to reduce the vote numbers of the Dems. But  generally excluding "stupid voters" would hurt them as much as the Dems (because, as you write, they have their far share of them, too), so that's not what they do. Instead, they try to exclude and disenfranchise certain groups of voters that are known for overwhelmingly voting Dems, because that, of course, is helpful for the GOP. And the primary target are the African Americans, as evident from countless such examples in the last years!

Now, you may still see that as disenfranchisement of "stupid voters", restricted to certain areas (urban districts with a high level of minority population) or certain circumstances (prisoners and ex-prisoners, with their high share of African Americans among them), but it's still not a general exclusion of "stupid voters". Afaik there are no efforts by the rethuglicans to drive lowly qalified rural people in overwhelmingly white districts (let's call them rednecks) away from the election booth, right? So, this statement should be corrected, imho.

Ok, these are my two eurocent. No misunderstanding again, pls, I agree with the general direction of your article and many of its points. The Dems really have to reach out to "stupid voters" (I'd rather se them called "low qualification voters" or something like that, btw) and present a message, and programs, that appeal to that group. In light of the horrible polls about a widespread lack of motivation among Dem voters for 2010, everybody should see that this is a very urgent issue!

Just one last remark, coming back to the point I raised at your last posting, I hope this is possible without this going out of hand again: As you explained, you use the data about qualifiactions and degrees bcause it's the best one available, and the correlation with IQ is high. Ok.

But let's not forget the limitations of that data, pls, and especially in the case of African Americans I guess we agree that the correlation beween their degrees and the IQ is the lowest of any group! To believe that their lower level of qualification (on average) is a fair representation of their intelligence (on average) would be racist, and we should be careful not to fall into that trap. It's obvious that their lower level of qualifications in general is based on historical and social reasons, after all! Ok, just as a reminder to be careful when using statistics about qualifications. I hope that's ok.


Hmm, one more caveat (0.00 / 0)
Looking at this again "Afaik there are no efforts by the rethuglicans to drive lowly qalified rural people in overwhelmingly white districts (let's call them rednecks) away from the election booth, right?" I see that this may be misinterpreted in the light of your statement that "Liberals think of the typical Republican as an illiterate hillbilly Holy Roller". Now, I don't say that rednecks are "typical Republican[s]", I just say that they are overwhelmingly Reoublican, ok? And afaik that's unquestionable true. And at the same time the GOP voter base is more diverse than that, of course. It's not only rednecks.

[ Parent ]
Not exactly (0.00 / 0)
The country-club Republicans don't like white trash either, and in the South at least poor whites are more Democratic than rich whites.

Some voter discouragement targets neighborhoods and groups, but Republicans also work to make voting generally more difficult. For example, they oppose same-day registration and motor-voter registration (when people getting drivers' licenses are offered a chance to register).


[ Parent ]
Read Lind's "Made in Texas" (0.00 / 0)
He describes Bush as the heir of the Confederate planters who ruled East Texas. They were like planters further east in their desire for a submissive, uneducated, impoverished, and disenfranchised working class, regardless of race color or creed.

[ Parent ]
Yes (4.00 / 1)
I'm still working on the idea that Democrats lose because their educational background makes them unfit for conflict and hard bargaining.

They believe that it is a task of education and not a task of power.  Their own education makes them believe in education.  

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


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