Can't remember when I've agreed with you more! (4.00 / 1)

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

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by: jeffroby @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 17:32:51 PM CST

I'd like to see an OL analysis of Independents views.. (4.00 / 3)

I don't believe the multi-tongued mumbo jumbo that it's the Dems extreme Leftist policies chasing Independents towards Republicans.  We've all been fed pure Moderate milquetoast so far.  
And there I believe is the real cause. No-one wants a whimpering flip flopper any where near them, generally.  
But in Congress, constituents expect heroic efforts on their behalf.  
If fork-tongued hacks like Lannie Davis, Bayh and Lieberman are right the Dem party's membership should have dramatically increased during the 90's when centrism reigned supreme and under George W., where just about everything W. wanted - he got, thanks to the same gang of centists. But that's not what happened.  In fact the more Democrats bent over, the more the Independent ranks increased.

They thought Dems finally had a bold opportunity to change, and, a new leader who would make it happen.

I think that Massachusetts proved that the old pre-Dean Democratic party mentality pushed by Bill Clinton, Harry Reid and Rahm Emanuel is now so ugly and distasteful to hard working struggling Americans, they willingly give up whatever benefits the Left may offer to keep what little pride they have left.


Nationalism is not the same thing as terrorism, and an adversary is not the same thing as an enemy.

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by: worldlymother @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 19:51:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Filibuster irony (0.00 / 0)

The ironic thing, of course, is that when the Republicans do retake the Senate, they'll nuke the filibuster themselves the first time they can't get enough conservadem votes to get to 60 on something they really want to pass. I think I'll need a lot of Valium on that day.

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by: Steve LaBonne @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 17:46:30 PM CST

There is no irony (0.00 / 0)

At points in the past, republicans controlled the senate and they wished to nuke the filibuster. Never happened. Read about it here:

http://www.newyorker.com/archi...

Special appearance by Joe Biden who has a slightly different opinion on the filibuster when he was on the other end.

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by: Zugzugzug @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 17:52:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

That's because they didn't need to- (4.00 / 4)

The Dems capitulated. As always.

Also, Republicans put in office by the teabagger vote will be even less respectful of "tradition" than their forebears.

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by: Steve LaBonne @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 17:54:55 PM CST

[ Parent ]

re: filibuster (0.00 / 0)

they'll nuke the filibuster themselves the first time they can't get enough conservadem votes to get to 60 on something they really want to pass.

conservadems won't be a problem

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by: The Big Hurt @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:00:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

No, they won't. (4.00 / 1)

But a situation where the Republicans have just 51 seats (or 50 + VP Palin) and can't find 9 conservadem votes is at least conceivable. All I'm saying is that IF that happened on something they really wanted to pass they wouldn't hesitate, and so the Dems shouldn't hesitate either. Of course pigs will fly first, sigh.

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by: Steve LaBonne @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:07:31 PM CST

[ Parent ]

They won't have to... (4.00 / 3)

That's the beauty of the filibuster... Democrats have no problem acquiescing to Republican demands so they can get 60 votes.  But when Democrats need Republicans, they simply filibuster...  It always works for them!

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by: leshrac55 @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:14:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Fine (4.00 / 2)

As long as it removes the filibuster in all cases forever, I'll help them out.

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by: Chris Bowers @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 23:18:35 PM CST

[ Parent ]

now yer talkin (0.00 / 0)

!

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by: Dameocrat @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 23:28:42 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Obama just said the health care bill can wait (4.00 / 3)

until brown is seated, and Conrad is  now talking reconciliation.  Those that would refuse to vote rather than vote for the corporatists won.  We played chicken and stood them down while you partisans clutched your pearls!  The loser lesser evil stategy is not relevant anymore. Lieberman is an irrelevant bitch.  We can win with majority votes now and mandates are dead!  Get prepared for real big changes and be happy!  Sometimes you have to get crazy and threaten to bring down the temple on everyones heads to get change!  Live and learn!  Partisanship is dumb.  Values matter!

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by: Dameocrat @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:09:27 PM CST

Huh? (0.00 / 0)

This is incoherent and/or delusional. There is maybe, MAYBE a 5% chance that we get something "better" under reconciliation at this point.

The way Democrats have been acting they may as well let Republicans write the bill... in fact, there is a high probability that this is more or less what will happen... See quick-hit from kovie.

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by: leshrac55 @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:18:37 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Perfectly coherent (4.00 / 1)

No bill is better than the piece of shit that they had all baked up in a pie.

The likes of Josh Marshall are screaming that the Senate bill has to be rammed down the House's throat, even as Obama has pulled the rug out from under such jackboot tactics.

He's at least not as stupid as his followers.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

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by: jeffroby @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:43:48 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Guess that's a matter of opinion... (0.00 / 0)

I don't share that opinion, and I also think progressives will be in a world of trouble if nothing passes... though perhaps this is inevitable at this point.

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by: leshrac55 @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 19:40:17 PM CST

[ Parent ]

then it's not a matter of coherency (0.00 / 0)

... it's that you fundamentally disagree.  Free country and all that.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

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by: jeffroby @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 20:45:05 PM CST

[ Parent ]

what you smokin' damie? (0.00 / 0)

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by: The Big Hurt @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:39:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

"Democrats just don't want to do it" (4.00 / 3)

I think that's been the case all along -- or else it would have been done months ago.

The realization that they (R's and D's) are ALL on the same side, and not on our side, has never been more clear.  

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by: CaptCT @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:27:05 PM CST

So true (0.00 / 0)

Too bad a lot of us bought that "hope" shit. Hope for what? That they'll use lube next time!? I had to say it

Extraordinary progressive star in the making

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by: JDS @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:55:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't understand all the bolding in the poll tables (0.00 / 0)

Are the names in bold the ones you predict will win?  Because for some races, like KY and CO, you bolded the trailing candidate in the primary for the general election matchups.

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by: liberalmaverick @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:48:48 PM CST

Solid and sensible in Wisconsin (0.00 / 0)

Democrats in the Senate might take a cue from Feingold.

Yes, I've written to him to descry his vote for the crap Senate health care bill. There's no way I won't vote for him next November.

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by: NealB2 @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 18:54:49 PM CST

Something you miss in your forecasts (0.00 / 0)

There's a very noticeable trend for almost all the close races to fall in the same direction. If it's a Republican trend, they'll probably take all seven of the wobbly Dem seats and lose nothing. A Dem trend might be losing 3 seats and gaining one. So while the expectation might be 55 seats (a solid majority able to pass reconciliation bills but hopeless against the filibuster), there's very high chance of a functionally different outcome - 52, probably totally ineffectual even via reconciliation, or 57, able to break a filibuster with the Republican moderates.

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by: FairEconomist @ Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 19:28:41 PM CST

once again - (0.00 / 0)

It's politics..

Imagine how the country will react if the Dems do push to remove the filibuster..  

It might be the move to make - but you need to admit one thing.. it's a risky move as far as how the country will react, the left will love it - but everything in politics involves calculating the fallout.. and those calculations tend to not be worth a crap.. sort of like calculating who will win in MA for example.

Figuring out the American people and how they might react to a given political chess move is difficult, sometimes it might be wonderful for short term gain.. and bad in the long run.. hard to extrapolate.

As an example... letsay we remove the filibuster - and then it's still too little, too late - the senate and house make even larger gains than we plan on in November.. now we've removed the filibuster FOR THEM.. or nearly so, considering the senate will be near an even split.

I think they should still go for it - but it's like putting all your chips on the table.  Effective politics - it's like wall street but with more risk.

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by: Lux @ Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 03:49:13 AM CST

People don't give a shit about Senate procedure (0.00 / 0)

If the Senate kills the filibuster and then passes legislation people want, the RESULTS are what they will care about, not how they were achieved. Right now people don't care that the Republicans are completely abusing the filibuster. They won't care if the Dems remove it either.

Howard Dean in 2016

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by: Jim in Chicago @ Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 13:40:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]