Obama's anti-democratic style--and substance

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Jun 12, 2010 at 13:00


In his diary Tuesday, "White House orders 5% spending cuts on top of discretionary spending freeze" Chris wrote:

I am not going to pretend that I live inside the head of President Obama and his advisors, and thus understand their rationale for this move.  Maybe they are doing it because they think it will help Democratic electoral chances.  Maybe they actually think it is good policy.  Maybe it is some combination of both.

The rationale, however, does not matter.  We are not engaged in a debate about what goes on inside the minds of the leading figures in the administration, including Obama himself.  What does matter is that this move will cost jobs in the middle of an ongoing employment crisis.  Not only will this add to widespread hardship in this country, but it will have negative effects on the Democratic electoral position exceeding whatever minimal media optics the Obama administration will receive from this move.

On one level this is perfectly correct. What really matters is not what politicians think or say, but what they do, and the results their actions produce.   But on another level, it matters enormously that we have no idea why Obama says and does the things he does.   After all, the basis of democracy is that people deliberate and decide on what they will do collectively in the way of self-government.  Proper deliberation depends upon open presentation of all the facts and arguments available. When things are hidden, deliberation is hindered, at the very least, if not corrupted, and ultimately destroyed.  Leaders who honestly explain their actions foster democracy, whether one agrees with their positions or not.  Leaders hide or deceive their motives and reasoning undermine democracy, even if one agrees with their actions.

This was one of the most central problems with the Bush Administration.  One could quibble endlessly, splitting hairs over whether Bush lied about WMDs in Iraq, for example.  Did he know for certain that what he said was not true?  But all that was beside the point, as Lakoff pointed out in arguing that the basic issue was betrayal of trust, and as former federal prosecutor Elizabeth de la Vega pointed out in arguing that Bush should be impeached for perpetrating fraud in taking us to war.

Outright lying is just one of many ways that a government can erode the foundations of democratic legitimacy, and restoring that legitimacy was one of the most powerful motivations there was for ending the Bush regime. It was one of the most fundamental mandates that was bestowed on Barack Obama with his election--and it is a mandate that he has fundamentally ignored. Indeed, it is a mandate that he has betrayed.

To take just one example--albeit a very large, very central, very ugly one--consider Glenn Greenwald's column from the same day, "A growing part of the Obama legacy", in which he wrote:

Paul Rosenberg :: Obama's anti-democratic style--and substance

When the history of the Bush era is written, the obvious question will be:  what was done about the systematic war crimes, torture regime, chronic lawbreaking, and even human experimentation which that administration perpetrated on the world?  And the answer is now just as obvious:  nothing, because the subsequent President -- Barack Obama -- decreed that We Must Look Forward, Not Backward, and then engaged in extreme measures to carry out that imperial, Orwellian dictate by shielding those crimes from investigation, review, adjudication and accountability.

All of that would be bad enough if his generous immunity were being applied across the board.  But it isn't.  Numerous incidents now demonstrate that as high-level Bush lawbreakers are vested with presidential immunity, low-level whistle blowers who exposed serious wrongdoing and allowed citizens some minimal glimpse into what our government does are being persecuted by the Obama administration with a vengeance.  Yesterday it was revealed by Wired that the Army intelligence officer analyst who reportedly leaked the Apache helicopter attack video to Wikileaks -- and thus enabled Americans to see what we are really doing in Iraq and other countries which we occupy and attack -- has been arrested....

.... Obama is not only protecting repugnant crimes and the criminals who committed them, but also ensuring that they will occur again. [emphasis added]

The deceptions and betrayals here are multiple and complex.  The initial formulation, "I'm a strong believer that it's important to look forward and not backwards" had to rank as one of the dumbest things ever said by an American President.  One cannot learn from ones mistakes if one never re-examines them. So that's one obvious level of dumb in Obama's statement.  But neither can one build on what one has done right, either.  In short, one has no foundation whatseover for future action if one doesn't look back.

Thus, Obama's call was a call to do the impossible, the absurd.  One expects this from Versailles, of course.  But people expected better from Obama.  He was promising "change we can believe in", remember?  Because it was impossible and absurd, it was hardly surprising to discover that he didn't really mean it.  It was "only" bitterly disappointing to discover that looking backwards to punish would be exclusively reserved for those who sought to rectify past wrongs.  Who knew that Obama saw himself, first and foremost, as Bush's enforcer?  But that, indeed, is precisely what has come to pass.

This is not simply a matter of refraining from destructive partisan warfare--as if that were even possible.  On multiple fronts--the war on terror, climate change, the federal budget and the economy--the Bush Administration took anti-empirical conservative ideology to such an extreme that it put the nation--and possibly the world--in peril.  And it did so in ways that severely damaged our capacity to function in a rational, reality-based manner.  Such systemic failings have been identified as historical characteristics of empires heading toward collapse.    Everyone who studies such things knows that it is very difficult to correct such failings.   No one's saying that it's easy.  But:

(1) Obama promised "change we can believe in", and warned that it would be hard.  He damn well seemed to have some sense of what was needed, and he outright promised greater openness and transparency.  No Rorschach excuses here.  Now, however, he's telling us it all depends on what your definition of "hard" is:

So I remain hopeful. Remember hope? (Applause.) I know it's been 18 tough months. And I know I've got more gray hair. (Laughter.) I know some folks say, well, you know, he's not as cool as he was. (Laughter.) When they had all the posters around and everything. Now I've got a Hitler mustache on the posters. (Laughter.) That's quite a change. (Laughter.)

You know, my approval ratings kind of start sinking. And some people are just not entirely satisfied. You know what, the health care bill wasn't everything I wanted. It's the biggest deal since Medicare, but, you know -- (laughter) -- it wasn't everything I wanted.

Look, I understand. I understand that, but remember what the campaign was about -- hope, change. People weren't paying attention to me when I said change is hard. People -- a lot of folks, they just missed that part. (Laughter.) They were like, hope, change -- (laughter) -- and they thought, nice swearing-in, you got Bruce Springsteen singing. (Laughter.) Everybody is feeling good. This is going to happen fast. (Laughter.)

Well, no. If it was easy, it would've happened before. If it was easy, we would have put in place mileage standards on cars 30 years ago, 40 years ago, 50 years ago -- on trucks. We didn't do it, because it's hard.

Compare that with JFK (whom I used to compare Obama to--as oppossed to legislative powerhouses like FDR and LBJ):

But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.


Here's that comparison of hard stuff again:
    Obama: modest progress on CAFE standards.
    JFK: the Moon.

Obama doesn't even begin to know the meaning of hard.  Telling truth to power.  Now that's hard.  And that's what tens of millions of Americans thought they were supporting when they worked for and voted for him.  Honest open government, that would bring past mistakes out into the light of day and fix them.  Not take them into a backroom somewhere and "fix" them.

(2) It's impossible if one does not at least try to change such things.  Not only is Obama not trying to move us  toward a more empirical, more rational way of operating.  He is moving us in the opposite direction.  That's what prosecuting whistleblowers does.  That's what defending and expanding the state secrets doctrine does. No ifs, ands or buts.

This week, at the America's Future Now conference, ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero expressed his disgust at the poor performance of the Obama Administration, and elaborated further in an interview with Politico reported here.  A few key paragraphs:

While liberals of various stripes have or had gripes with how Obama has conducted himself since taking office, civil libertarians may well be the most disillusioned at this point.
"There was a discussion this morning, and there has been generally in progressive circles, about expectations that have not been met. I made the point that expectations were high because the president set expectations very high," Romero said.

Asked why he's so animated now, Romero said: "It's 18 months and, if not now, when? ... Guantanamo is still not closed. Military commissions are still a mess. The administration still uses state secrets to shield themselves from litigation. There's no prosecution for criminal acts of the Bush administration. Surveillance powers put in place under the Patriot Act have been renewed. If there has been change in the civil liberties context, I frankly don't see it."

Many analysts now regard it as unlikely that Guantanamo, which was supposed to close this past January under Obama's presidential order on the subject, will close this year. Romero agreed that if Sept. 11 trials proceed before military commissions at Guantanamo it's hard to see how the prison will close in the year or two after that.

"The unwillingness of the administration to stick by its guns and prosecute the Sept. 11 defendants in criminal court does not bode well for the broader civil liberties agenda," he said. "The fact they've not announced anything raises the specter of doubt that, in itself, is debilitating to the Justice Department and raises serious questions about the administration's commitment to the rule of law. Their silence speaks volumes."

While much of what Romero focuses on can simply be seen as weakness and lack of leadership, the prosecution of those who have tried to bring Bush-era criminality to light throws a much more sinister light on things.  It's understandable why Romero, as head of an organization like the ACLU might not want to go that far.  But the fact remains, Obama's civil liberties record is not simply weak, in some ways it represents a worsening of the Bush record, and a hardening of opposition towards dealing with the problems that plague our republic. Prosecuting whistleblowers, and resorting to the state secrets doctrine to deny citizens in their quest for justice are bad enough in themselves.  But they are part and parcel of the much broader pattern of Obama's governance style... and substance: hiddeness, compromise and the unquestioned acceptances of all the assumptions underlying the failed policies of the past.

It's not just a disappointment--although it most certainly is that.  It's not just that Obama is a "Thief of Hope", as greenwood63 titled a quick hit quoting Eli Zaretsky at Tikkun Daily!, which read, in part:

Imagine a woman who has been in an abusive marriage for so long that she no longer knows that she is in one. Her husband defines the world for her. She is on her knees all the time, anticipating his wishes, giving him what ever she has, telling him what he wants to hear, working overtime to please him. Her world is grey, depressing, anxiety-ridden and dark. She has forgotten the dreams of her childhood, and she doesn't know there is an alternative.

One day she meets someone who offers hope - a minister, a rabbi, a therapist, a friend. Suddenly everything brightens and it seems that she can find a way out. She will leave her husband, or transform the relationship. One way or another she will regain her sense of self. But then it doesn't happen. The person who was expected to help her tells her that there isn't much that can be done, and besides he or she has already done so very much for her. That's the way the world is, she is told. You can't really change things that much....

This then is Obama's great failure. It is not that he has failed to lead the country in a new direction. It is that he has not tried. He awakened hopes that he had no idea how to fulfill, and, even more, no intention of fulfilling. He remains the thief of hope. And like the Gulf of Mexico, the United States will be a long time recovering from the massive oil swill of an administration whose essential message is that very little can actually be done, and besides it will be doing that little: it will be cutting entitlements.

No, it's not just that Obama is a thief of hope, although he is that, too.  It's that he's a thief of democracy as well--a suppressor of facts, a suppressor of dark secrets that eat at our nation's soul, and a  suppressor of arguments and vigorous debate about how we should act to set our nation right again.  All politicians keep some of their thoughts to themselves.  Effective strategies and tactics require no less, and we all understand that.  But hiding your motives behind layer upon layer of obfuscation--that is not a necessary part of democracy.  It is how democracies die.  It is the way of Bush, and his pre-determined invasion of Iraq on the pretext of 9/11.  It is the way of Reagan, Iran/Contra and the October Surprise. It is the way of Nixon, and his "secret peace plan" to bomb Vietnam--and Cambodia--back into the stone age.  It is not the way of JFK, a flawed man, to be sure, who nonetheless lead us to the Moon.


Tags: , , , , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Hasn't tried and deliberately undermines. n.t (4.00 / 3)


I especially find the scolding over (4.00 / 13)
"change is hard" unbearable. Who shut down OFA for months as soon as the election was over? Who empowered conservative Democrats like Baucus, and false Republican allies like Hagel? Who offered electoral support to Lincoln without extracting any legislative support from her whatsoever? Who decided that HCR should be sold to the American public after passage (this campaign, of course, has yet to happen)? Who lowballed the stimulus under the false belief that it would grow during the legislative process and continues to emphasize deficit reduction (meaning social insurance cuts) thereby delegitimizing government efforts for the stimulus, a new stimulus or a jobs bill? Who continues to make Cheney-esque arguments to defend assassination, detention without due process, or flawed military commissions? Who failed to make significant changes at MMS and put drilling enthusiast Ken Salazar in charge of Interior? Who appointed Donovan at HUD, Emanuel as COS, or Peterson to head the catfood commission?  

Who criticizes efforts by progressives, labor, etc., to push for the administrations stated agenda?

The defense of "did you want McCain-Palin?" is wholly irrelevant to the question at hand-the White House is acting to prevent change, both short term and long term.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


"The defense of "did you want McCain-Palin?" is wholly irrelevant" (4.00 / 6)
This is something to keep in mind in 2012 and every national election.  It's the defacto response of Democratic elites and not a few of my less confrontational liberal friends.

Such non-arguments are nothing more than a tool to shut down meaningful debate under the guise of being "realistic."  Given what's at stake and the solutions being proposed by the "governing class," nothing could be more irrational than continuing to tolerate this "lesser of two evils" rationale.  


[ Parent ]
Sometimes A Lesser Evil Really IS A Necessity (4.00 / 2)
"Vote For The Crook!  It's Important!" was the bumper sticker that helped defeat David Duke in his run for governor back in the 1990s.

But when folks reach for the lesser evil argument reflexively, as a first line of defense to substantive criticism that they cannot answer on the merits, well, then, that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Sure, that's true (4.00 / 1)
But nothing I said forbids drawing positive distinctions between alternatives based on one being provably worse than the other.  

Whether it's as a first line of defense or not doesn't seem to matter as much as the fact that "would you have preferred candidate X" is a surefire way to avoid "reality based" discussions of politics.  


[ Parent ]
The "Impeachment" Argument (4.00 / 1)
I've also heard the "impeachment" argument where when the Dems lose Congress, Obama will be impeached.

Strangely, that argument is almost the clincher to vote for Repub Congress critters for me.


[ Parent ]
If he gets impeached (4.00 / 6)
you can be sure it won't be for anything deserving (which is different than saying that there are no legitimate reasons.)

Funny thing is, it is Democratic callowness that allows Republicans to do things like seek impeachment. They weren't always like this, they just kept doing crazier things and Democrats kept enabling them.  Fighting is the only cure.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
Agreed (4.00 / 5)
I just want to remind folks that some of the excuses we're being given are not inherently bogus arguments in all situations.  

They're bogus because of the actual issues and situation we are in.

The reason that I bring this up is that the sell-outs ultimate argument is that they're being practical, and we're just a bunch of rigid ideologues.  The reality, however, is just the opposite.  I'm very willing to support the lesser of two evils in a crook vs. Klansman case like that above.

But that doesn't mean I see every situation the same way.  Only a rigid ideologue would do that.

This is one of the most fundamental points of Democratic establishment hypocrisy, so I can't stop emphasizing it enough.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Other times "Lesser Evil" (0.00 / 0)
Is to Bush/Cheney as a good cop is the the bad.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
You Have To Know The Difference (0.00 / 0)
between rules of thumb, and, say, the rules of logic.  The former is always contextual, and there are times when one such rule takes over from another.  The rules of logic, not so much.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
So (0.00 / 0)
Obama is not the good emperor to Bush's bad?

Or is that not in the proper context?

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Change is Hard: That's one of the worst cliches of the Obama era (4.00 / 4)
Others:

1. Obama is the most progressive president since FDR.

2. A progressive is someone who makes progress.

3. Obama has little influence over what happens in Congress.


[ Parent ]
at some point (4.00 / 4)
the fact that Obama is an enemy of almost all progressive change must be acknowledged and progressive response has to be appropriate. Enough with the hand-wringing. There really is nothing else to do but read the very clear, very large, writing on the wall. I just do not know what pretending otherwise accomplishes.

True, Obama Is Largely Against Us (4.00 / 3)
But we need to understand what we're up against here, and it's by no means simple.  Many of the outcomes are fairly simple looking at the bottom line.  But the rationales that people buy into are far more complex.  If we want to be effective in fighting against this, I think we need a combination of staunch action and sometimes subtle analysis.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I think that measured approach (4.00 / 1)
has in fact failed and failed utterly. I think we should bury it.

[ Parent ]
Obama's a symptom (4.00 / 3)
A dangerous symptom but a symptom nonetheless.

For example on the issue of torture and other war crimes, no person who could have become president would've held Bush accountable. That's not the way power works, and it's not the way the country works right now.

This is not to exonerate Obama -- his continuance (and validation) of Bush-Cheney's war on terror is a horrific, criminal blunder -- but to point out how deep our problems are.

At this moment in time, an ordinarily bad American president is by definition a war criminal.

That said, I find the rise of Obama nothing less than tragic but it has sucked up and co-opted a lot of the progressive energy needed to real change.  


[ Parent ]
Indeed (0.00 / 0)
no person who could have become president would've held Bush accountable. That's not the way power works, and it's not the way the country works right now.

How does the power that can keep the crimes of Cheney/Bush from being prosecuted work? Sadly, I don't think that primary elections have much to do with it.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
It starts with the military-industrial complex (4.00 / 1)
and the various powers that be that would simply not countenance the rise of a serious candidate who was interested in prosecuting or exposing the crimes of the Bush Administration. I believe thats what david mizner was referring to when he said thats the way power works - it simply prevents prosecution from being a legitimate topic of discussion.  

[ Parent ]
Wonderful write up (0.00 / 0)
We're in the middle of what we know is the worst environmental disaster in the nations' history without being really aware of its dimensions.  We're also in the middle of the worst financial crisis the world has seen in eighty years.  And the leader of the Democratic party is trumpeting modest, overly long awaited changes in CAFE standards and talking up targeted tax cuts for small businesses.  

But it's also true that if there is a "progressive tradition" in American politics - something that I'm highly skeptical of - the anti-democratic strains that you correctly identify in Obama's governance are part and parcel of it.  Much like representatives of the so-called "liberal consensus," progressive politicians in the early 20th c. were highly uncomfortable with democracy and thought  working class voters - many of them urban immigrants - were too ignorant and too beholden to big city political bosses to understand both their own best interests and those of society in general.  That is, based on their political behavior and ethnic background, progressives effectively believed these millions of Americans were by definition unfit to exercise their rights as US citizens.  

In this light progressives of the classic "progressive era" - a period that (unlike Reconstruction, for example) historians still cannot define with anything remotely approaching rigor - would count the bigoted immigration reform of bill of 1924 as a triumph.  Also, the process where (you put this so well) professional expert elites would "take [social problems] into a backroom somewhere and "fix" them" rather than dealing with them in "the light of day" represents yet another "victory" of progressivism.  Theodore Lowi's decades-old but more relevant than ever End of Liberalism deals with the implications of this signature progressive impulse better than most.    

Again, great piece, and maybe I'm guilty of interjecting my "we need to call ourselves liberals rather than progressives" hobby horse.  But names are important, and the current vogue of liberals describing themselves as "progressives" coincides with the rise of the DLC and desire by Democrats not to be labeled as liberals by Republicans.  Third Way itself comes out of a similar predicament.  Indeed, the not so distant history of the word "progressive" suggests that it's at least as much a term of submission to the right as one of positive affirmation of leftist politics.  

What's more, the liberal tradition - with its focus on issues of consent, rights, reason and toleration - can actually make sense of the various connections and contradictions among Jefferson, Douglass, LIncoln, FDR, LBJ, Carter and Obama while bringing these figures into meaningful conversation with each other. Progressivism as an identifiable ideology expressed by social movements over time offers no such synthetic and critical value for understanding the historical context of our present predicament.        


My Grandparents (0.00 / 0)
were part of the early 20th century wave of urban immigrants that the WASP progressives were so worried about.  Which is one reason I was being critical when I first wrote about Obama being a "progressive" more in that tradition than the post-Vietnam meaning of the word, when folks like me took it up to distance ourselves from the "Cold War liberalis" who brought us the Vietnam War.

So, both terms have their baggage.  But it's definitely important to be reminded of the different strengths and weaknesses.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
They both have baggage (0.00 / 0)
But only one offers a meaningful theoretical basis for understanding political behavior.  

[ Parent ]
Why don't you tell us what you really think? (4.00 / 2)
This diary contains some very, very hard core criticisms of the Obama administration. It casts Obama in a light that puts him squarely in the same box with the likes of George Bush and Dick Cheney.

Well done, Paul.


At some point enablers like this commenter (4.00 / 1)
have to take responsibility for the crap their support enables. That never seems to figure into their equation. If you are thoroughly disgusted by a president who does the opposite of what we want, what we need and what he campaigned for...suck it up. Otherwise we hear the substance-less whine of the good Germans. At this point I think people like Michael Harold are a big part of the problem. The longer you tolerate and support Obama, the worse he and the Democrats become.  

[ Parent ]
Hold On There! (4.00 / 1)
You need to re-read that more carefully.  Michael Harold is no enabler.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
sorry, sorry. (0.00 / 0)
I took your well-done as sarcastic.

[ Parent ]
No apology necessary (4.00 / 1)
I love America! And I love the Constitution and the Amendments. Especially the first one.

[ Parent ]
Obama (4.00 / 9)
"We could hardly have a president more ill-suited to our time if we were to dig up Herbert Hoover and prop his weary bones up on the presidential throne.

Barack Obama has five major problems as president.  The first is that he doesn't understand priorities.  The second is that he seems to have little strong conviction on any given issue.  The third is that to the extent he stands for anything, it is for maintenance of a status quo that continues to wreck the country in order to service the greed of a few oligarchs.  The fourth is that he fundamentally does not understand the powers and the role of the modern presidency.  And the fifth is that he maintains the worst communications apparatus in the White House since Jimmy Carter prowled its corridors.  In fairness to his communications team, though, he has given them almost nothing to sell.  You try singing the praises of bailing out Goldman Sachs one hundred cents on the dollar, or of a health care plan that forces people to buy plans they don't want from hated insurance vultures.  It ain't easy, pal.  Yet, on the other hand, Bush and Cheney had far less than nothing to sell when it came to the Iraq war - indeed, they had nothing but lies - and their team handled that masterfully.  "

http://www.commondreams.org/vi...


Ah, But They Were COMFORTING Lies (0.00 / 0)
So, that made things easier for them.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
There is only ONE Team (4.00 / 2)
How hard was it for King Cheney to get us into war with Iraq when he had a House of Lords with folks like Hillary Clinton voting him on?

What changed?  We have the same team of oligarchs.  The rest is theater for the serfs.

The forces on the right have so totally infiltrated the Democratic Party that I think it is now a lost cause. Consider how the machine worked in Connecticut and Arkansas.

Americans generally despise both parties so I don't so what we have to lose starting another.  If nothing else, we wouldn't have to look ourselves in the mirror after election day and realize we VOTED to expand the war in Afghanistan, bailout the banksters, and pollute the Gulf.  


[ Parent ]
Very Good In Theory, But In Practice, Not So Much (4.00 / 2)
We've been over this many times before.  Historically, third parties have been successful on the state level, but not nationally.

This can change at the point where one or both of the two major parts start to disintegrate--as happened most famously in the 1850s--which could happen sometime in the not-too-distant future, so I'm not ruling it out entirely.  But I am saying that it's pretty much a waste of time, energy, and resources to work on a national third party now.

I really wish it were not so.  But I'm just too dang reality based to ignore reality, even when it sucks.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
So start the disintegration (4.00 / 3)
This has been dogma my entire political life and the dogma has only worked to move us relentlessly to the right over the last 30 years.  Talk about a waste of time.  

The left has been all talk forever.  Unless we coalesce into a recognizable faction that has the power to enact pain, we're the joke Rahm believes we are.  We can't win, but we can make somebody lose.  I can't tell you how many folks have whined about Nader costing Gore the election.  Well, at least they remember his name.  We aren't being heard.  We're being laughed at and played for fools and that is doing no one including the American public any good.  

If you build it they will come?  Maybe if you destroy it first, you'll be able to rebuild it.  


[ Parent ]
I think you have it backwards (4.00 / 4)
What moved us relentless to the right was:

1) Conservatives took over the Republican Party, giving them great power-far more than they ever could have by a third party or trying to destroy the Republican Party.

2) Liberals and progressives stopped understanding that intra-party battles are as important as inter-party battles, while the DLC/New Democrat / neoliberal faction worked to take over the Democratic Party.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
The right took over both parties (0.00 / 0)
I've got nothing against a good old-fashioned conservative.  I wouldn't generally vote for one but I have plenty of family and friends who are respectable conservatives.  

I know plenty of folks who consider themselves moderates as well.  In fact, I thought I was one of them for a number of years.

What I think has happened is that BOTH parties have been take over by the RIGHT, very deliberately.  We just have been unwilling to really face how effective they have been at infiltrating the Democratic Party.  The whole "centrist" thing is a big con.  They aren't moderate.  They're corporately owned.  

I don't disagree on what the left/liberals failed to do, but I think the problem now is even more dire than we want to admit.  The party is so corrupt now that I don't know that trying to take it back from within is easier than trying to defeat it from the outside.  


[ Parent ]
Precisely, David! (4.00 / 4)
What's more, people don't realize that the left doesn't have to win every battle inside the Democratic Party--at least not to start producing "change we can believe in".  We just have to increase the cost of moving right, so that it no longer automatically makes sense to do so to those who are so inclined.  Once that happens, then every decision has to start factoring us in, and factoring in the base as well.  Suddenly, there are real political constraints, and our voices start mattering again.

That's why the Halter primary challenge was a success, even though he fell a bit short in the end.  It imposed a very significant cost, and sent the message that it could happen again to other senators as well.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Maybe, Do A Rove (0.00 / 0)
Target Obama's "base" the young, new voter, and take it.

[ Parent ]
Yes (4.00 / 2)
and I suspect that the need of the corporoDems to stick to their right-wing agenda will tear the party in two. Its a mirror image of the right with the anti-corporate/populist tea party raining on the establishment's parade.

Personally, I think it is the proper course of action for the nation at this time. We need some uncertainty within the political realms. This two party ping-pong game is getting old. Minimally, we need new players. Left and Right.

If I had time and incentive to look it up, I'd nominate Tim Pawlenty for your chatty chathie thing. He was outright wacky on the BP fiasco.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Things Definitely Need Shaking Up (4.00 / 1)
But that's all the more reason to be clear about the sorts of things that have been dead ends in the past, and the sorts of things that have shown more promise.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
History is a good lesson (0.00 / 0)
but the future is undetermined.

I'm not pitching the "we make history" theme of Cheney, et al., just saying that the past is a teacher, not deterministic. Change is not only a campaign slogan. Either it happens, or history repeats.

I know (suspect) you sense this - just don't want it to fall between the unspoken cracks.

 

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
I think the election of Obama (4.00 / 1)
created a giant lurch to the right. He ran left on a lot of populist postions, serious change and has governed like a
Republican shitbag since meanwhile emasculating,and laughing at the left, tearing up campaign positions and refusin g to even oppose Republican rhetoric. I am not sured I have witnessed in  my lifetime a more galvanizing turn of the Democrats rightward. In the meantime we are just pissing in the wind and getting wet.

[ Parent ]
Jack Balkin has been arguing (4.00 / 2)
that by adopting the Bush positions on so many elements of executive power, Obama and the Democrats thereby institutionalized those powers in a way that will make them far more enduring than they would have been otherwise.  I agree, and I think the argument can extend well beyond that particular example.  

Note that for the purposes of this point whether Obama did this because of sincere beliefs or because he felt compelled to do so by politics is completely irrelevant.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
Precisely (4.00 / 2)
He's normalized the abominable.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
For the record though (4.00 / 2)
it was not Nader that cost them the election. It was shitty Democratic policies, politics and positions that drove away those voting for Nader.  

[ Parent ]
It Wasn't The Bullets That Killed Him! (0.00 / 0)
It was the holes!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
come on, Nader didn't cost Gore dick (0.00 / 0)
firstly, Gore actually won Florida, secondly most of the major numbers for Nader were in places where Gore wasn't ever going to lose

blaming Nader for Gore's (and the DNC's) shortcomings is just too easy for some people to resist, I guess


[ Parent ]
You've Just Performed A Reductio Ad Absurdum On Yourself (0.00 / 0)
firstly, Gore actually won Florida,

Nader didn't cost Gore the election, because the GOP stole it!

Of course, the only reason it was close enough to steal was because of Nader, but, details, details.

secondly most of the major numbers for Nader were in places where Gore wasn't ever going to lose

So what?  Talk about a strawman!  "most of the major numbers" have nothing to do with the electoral college, and you know that as much as anyone else.  What does matter is the closely contested states, and here it's quite obvious that Nader cost the election in New Hampshire, as well:

   Gore      Bush       Nader
 266,348   273,559     22,198

blaming Nader for Gore's (and the DNC's) shortcomings is just too easy for some people to resist, I guess

Look, dude.  I voted for Nader in 2000.  In California.  Where there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell that it would matter.  So don't even try to paint me as a Gore apologist.

Just because Gore done wrong doesn't mean Nader didn't as well.  But brain-dead either/or thinking is just too easy for some people to resist, I guess.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
yes, because we disagree on this point I am brain dead (0.00 / 0)
reductio indeed

[ Parent ]
No (0.00 / 0)
You're brain-dead because you employ either/or thinking.

I give reasons for what I say.  I give evidence.

Disagreement is fine.  Logical fallacies, not so much.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
can we agree that Gore's run to the center drove liberal voters into Nader's arms (0.00 / 0)
because that's why I bothered voting for Nader (as a DC resident, so it's not like it mattered)

[ Parent ]
Me, Re Gore & Elian Gonzales: (0.00 / 0)
He's giving pandering a bad name.

But, obviously, there are things much worse than pandering.

It's called perspective.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The Pacific Green Party of Oregon (4.00 / 3)
The state of Oregon has a Green Party which presently has five elected city councilmembers across the state, a school board member, and a mayor.  It is, in other words, active and competitive at the local level.

At the state level, the Pacific Green Party has ballot access: its candidates, when nominated, are then on the statewide ballot.  In 2008 the party sponsored candidates for all US Congressional district races -- for the first time; in 2010 it has candidates for all but one.

In contrast to the other parties, the Pacific Green Party has a commitment to grass-roots participation in party governance and in transparent process.  We are growing in numbers, influence, and profile, both in local and in state politics.  Democrats and Republicans help by their continual surrender to corporate interests.


[ Parent ]
Sounds great! (0.00 / 0)
Keep fighting that fight. 3rd party successes at the state level, where such a thing is actually possible, are of great importance and inspiration for those of us in states without such options.  

[ Parent ]
It's like Good cop, bad cop. (4.00 / 6)
Ultimately, the good cop is letting the bad cop be bad.  If the "good cop" were really a good cop, he would report the bad cop, and the bad cop would be suspended.  But that doesn't happen because letting the bad cop be bad is how you break suspects, and get them to sign confessions.

Since you are quoting Greenwald, I think his next post ("The Democratic Party and Blanche Lincoln") spells out how Obama is playing his roll in "good politician/bad politician," nothing more.  

"What's going on here couldn't be clearer if the DNC produced neon signs explaining it. Blanche Lincoln and her corporatist/centrist Senate-friends aren't some unfortunate outliers in the Democratic Party. They are the Democratic Party. The outliers are the progressives. The reason the Obama White House did nothing when Lincoln sabotaged the public option isn't because they had no leverage to punish her if she was doing things they disliked. It was because she was doing exactly what the White House and the Party wanted. The same is true when she voted for Bush/Cheney Terrorism policies, serves every corporate interest around, and impedes progressive legislation. Lincoln doesn't prevent the Democratic Party from doing and being what it wishes it could do and be. She enables the Party to do and be exactly what it is, what it wants to be, what serves its interests most. That's why they support her so vigorously and ensured her victory: the Blanche Lincolns of the world are the heart, soul and face of the national Democratic Party."

Judging Obama or the Democratic Party by it's public words is like judging BP by it's television commercials.


I'll Have More To Say About Glenn's PIece (4.00 / 1)
and other perspectives on Lincoln, Obama & what it all means.

There is a need to tighten up Glenn's argument, I think.  One can plausibly argue that in the end presidential power might not have been enough.  The same cannot be said, however, if the argument shifts to the matter of presidential effort.  Who did he lift a finger for? vs. who did he lift a finger to?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Change is hard (4.00 / 4)
That's why we're not doing it.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.

My sense is (4.00 / 4)
this week we saw a tipping point in terms of Obama's popularity among progressive activists -- at least progressive netroots activists. It's been building for months, of course, but the shots at Labor (in defense of Blanche Lincoln) seem to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

I assume he'll remain very popular with Dems as a whole. But he's got serious problems with the electorate. Gallup has him at 44 - 48 -- his lowest ever -- and we're headed into a summer of dead pelicans, dead soldiers, and a dead recovery.  


Revisiting the state of affairs from pre primary 2008 till now (4.00 / 1)
1. The American people were pissed, and wanted real change

2. Because of this, the Democratic primary winner was bound to win

3. Of the "candidates who could win" the least worst was Barack Obama

3a: On the plus side: Charismatic, intelligent, articulate, with an ethnic back ground and family history that embodied 21st century demographic trends, real change, and a repudiation of the  "War on Terror" that only electing a black man named Hussein could be

3b: On the down side: While not as complete of an insider and servant of the Oligarchs as Hilary Clinton, he still was one.

4. Once Edwards fell on his sword, the "change" vote (i.e. not Bush, not Clinton) was all Obama's and soon it was clear that he would be the nominee.

5. By the time Obama made mincemeat of McCain (by nominating him, the Republicans just phoned it in) we knew the following:

5a: Obama would lie the nation into war (see US led murder of South Ossetians during "Olympic War")

5b. and expand the current wars (Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.)

5c: He really didn't understand the gravity of the Sustainability problem (ecologically, economically, spiritually, or otherwise...)

5d: Obama would be a servant of the Oligarchs

5e: If the GOP ever wanted to legitimately win again they needed to reanneal the Ron Paul types back to their electoral base

6: Conclusion at that time: Obama was going to be phony change, but as a genuine conservative at least he would buy us time to rally forces for real change.

7. But Progressives didn't comprehend that. They failed to rally forces for real change, instead they helped the GOP recapture the Ron Paul types by being stereotypical arrogant assholes to those people whom they are ostensibly trying to "help".

The damage has been done, let's look forward.


Available Tools To Move Forward (0.00 / 0)
I'll get blasted for this, but what's wrong with using Republicans as some of the tools to move us forward (I'll admit, it's not a forward move).

I have a limited amount of tools available to apply pressure for change - I need to use all of them.  Voting Republican is one of the tools.


[ Parent ]
great stuff (4.00 / 2)
As usual, great stuff. The very high bar at Open Left is moved higher still every weekend.

There are so many reasons to be angry and frustrated with this administration but for me the coupling of letting war criminals guilty of treason walk while clamping on those heroes - and I do not use that term loosely - exposing the criminals really, really sets me off. Everyone has their political breaking point and issue and this one is shaping up to be mine, for better or worse.

Progressives should step up and contribute to the whistleblowers' defense fund or if one does not exist perhaps Open Left could consider initiating such a fund. The whistleblowers, acting on conscience and duty, took enormous personal risks for the rest of us, effectively anyway, and we would be remiss to let them face the full brunt of the administration alone.

Did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts? Hot ashes for trees? Hot air for a cool breeze? And cold comfort for change?


"The very high bar at Open Left is moved higher still every weekend." (0.00 / 0)
I feel like certain writers are pulling in a different, troubling direction and sort of looking past Obamaco. and the myriad of issues

[ Parent ]
What's so wrong (0.00 / 0)
about looking past an illusion?

Regardless of party affiliation, the Emperor remains unclothed.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
well, while the Socialist Obama may be an illusion (0.00 / 0)
the fact that nearly every Democrat holding national office is either directly opposed to a progressive agenda or too weak/callow/etc to push back against the Blue Dogging of the party is not

meanwhile I still see posts referring to the Democrats as "we" and talking about the seats "we" stand to gain or lose


[ Parent ]
To me (0.00 / 0)
the perspective you outline is "beyond the illusion".

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Looking forward (4.00 / 1)
1. The current global civilization cannot be sustained

1a: and while technological buttressing of that civilization can bail us out, technology operates on its own time table, and the results are not always what you would want (AI, robotics, and genetic engineering could all be profoundly anti-human technologies)

1b: There are too many people and the life support system of the planet is buckling before our very eyes. Optimists think we will plateau around 9 billion people; the pessimists think we will plateau around 2 billion... think about it.

1c: Even if global warming pessimists are correct, we will turn on each other long before any 1°C rise in global temperature, or 1 meter rise in sea levels: therefor

2. We need alternative energy as fast as possible because of the economics of carbon:

2a: Global peace since WWII is based on the concept of "Peaceful Rising" embodied by nations like China. If economic growth stalls, Peaceful Rising will be replaced by "Warful Falling".

2b: Economic statistics are reflective of ecological damage: the rising cost of commodities are because too many people are consuming too much. As commodity prices rise, the economy will seize-up and collapse. The environment will breathe a sigh of relief, but the human race will have to go through hell, therefor

3: A Manhattan Project for energy must be the number one priority: we need to build green energy no matter what the cost, just like we justify trillions on pointless wars (but for an actually moral cause)

4: People have to be made to accept less materially; especially the rich. It would be easy to imagine a fascist cabal grinding down the masses all in the name of healing the earth, but we must demand and ensure the progress of 1789. Sacrifice must start at the top, only then will people peacefully accept the tightening of their already tight belts.

5. While this could have and should have been "Day 1" stuff for Obama, he is a lost cause. Until it is enacted, it will always be "Day 1" stuff for any good government.

6. Good government cannot come through easy change. Only by building a broad-based popular movement (in other words, something greater than the old "left vs. right" politics) only by doing that can we actually force real change.

7. Anything else is a con.


And yet (4.00 / 3)
You still won't explain how you get from A to B:

Only by building a broad-based popular movement (in other words, something greater than the old "left vs. right" politics) only by doing that can we actually force real change.

Plenty of broad-based popular movements have fit easily within left-right politics. I'm not certain any have transcended it (although I may be forgetting something.) Until you explain why you connect these seemingly unrelated ideas, you are in no position to call anything a con. (Also, insulting people not a good way to build a movement with those people.)

Also this:

A Manhattan Project for energy must be the number one priority

is progressive and antithetical to both right-libertarianism and traditional conservatism. You might as well call for a civil rights movement that transcends the old white power / black liberation politics.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
USA Leadiing the Way in 2a (4.00 / 1)
Good old USA is leading the way on the Warful Falling front.  Good to see we can still be number 1 in something.

[ Parent ]
#1 is all a well-connected and financed oligarch (0.00 / 0)
needs to hear. The rest is a matter of perspective.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Regarding 6) "building a broad based popular movement" (0.00 / 0)
Gary Null recently interviewed Gerald Celente, where he predicted the rise of a broad-based movement which would have progressive and libertarian elements. It was probably this show. Thankfully, Celente described a coalition which is green, which shouldn't be a hard sell to any reasonable libertarian who will be able to observe the unfolding, utter failure of the free market to make whole what BP has spoiled for decades. Hopefully, they will also take note as the taxpayers get stuck for mega $$, should this indeed be the case. I don't see how it could not be the case, due to the $75 million limit on liability. (Here's a list of the dodo-heads who voted for this, who are still in office. Perhaps a good initial project for Celente's coalition is to get every one of these failures out of office. )

IMO, to succeed quickly, such a movement should:
a) point out how corporatist/corrupt both the D and R parties are, to the extent of headlining this point as one of their raisons d'etre
b) not take a religious attitude toward any party, but be willing to form a voting bloc which strategically votes as either D's, R's, or on their own ballot, depending on circumstances
c) recruit via direct appeals to fellow citizens in the street, as was employed by citizens in New Brunswick, leading to a massive change in at least their Democratic political structure. (Don't have a link handy for this particular claim, but for background, see Progressives and Revolutionaries Win 25 Seats in Local Democratic Party)
d) get leaders - fast
e) get promoters - fast (I'm thinking celebrities, famous musicians, etc.)
f) get candidates - fast

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of people stepping up to the plate, in a big way, to do this. I've heard Gary Null mention that he is trying to get Ron Paul and Ralph Nader "together", but of course, even if he succeeds at that, it'll take a lot more to turn things around.  

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
Oops, wrong Celente interview (0.00 / 0)
It was this one., from May 7. This particular segment starts at about 13:00.

Celente predicts a new, third party, which he labels as Progressive-Libertarian. It will have the following characteristics:

progressive
=================
* health
* nutrition
* environment
* education

libertarian
=================
* not becoming involved in foreign entaglements
* government staying out of your personal business, as long as you're not hurting anybody, and nobody else is paying for it

not libertarian in the sense that
==================================
* we don't need any government regulation, at all (e.g., Glass Steagle are desirable)

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
populism? (0.00 / 0)
You have described what I believe to be populism. Almost spontanious forming of political factions so disinfatuated with the status quo that we overlook old differences to confront the mortal enemy....at least temporarily. That old Romulan saying: "only fools fight in a burning house".

This is the beast on the horizon, and it will not be pretty.

Government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob..... FDR


[ Parent ]
Why will it not be pretty? (0.00 / 0)
Are you suggesting that Ron Paul and Ralph Nader are not handsome men?  :-)

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
Oh, The SS and The Marxists Can Be Friends! (0.00 / 0)


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
exactly (0.00 / 0)
And the feminists/chauvinists--dems/repubs--all races, and other (non monetary class) devisions.

They say "politics makes strange bedfellows" and survival above slavery is both political and an existence threat....at least until the threat (or civilization) is defeated.

Government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob..... FDR


[ Parent ]
Except (0.00 / 0)
that reality-based folks know how that one ended.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
consider myself "reality based" (0.00 / 0)
So, how does it end?

Do the people win this one or is it just another loss on the way to the prophecy of Revelation 6.6....a quart of wheat for a day's work?

Government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob..... FDR


[ Parent ]
not at all (0.00 / 0)
Just that the beneficiaries of the current system will fight violently to retain their unearned and undeserved wealth and power. The struggle will be brutal.

Handsom is as handsom does, so Ralph is pretty and Ron is not (but will be when battle is joined).... at least temporarily, whial we fight the common enemy of humanity and civilization.

Government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob..... FDR


[ Parent ]
Unclear On The Concept (0.00 / 0)
Ron Paul is the enemy of humanity and civilization.

A different enemy from Bushco, to be sure.  But see, "Fire and Ice" by Robert Frost.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
no (0.00 / 0)
The enemy (in this discussion, as I understand) is the combination of both national parties working against the public, for the interests of capital.

In this setting, only allies of the people are friends. Supporters of money or anyoue pretending to be neutral is the enemy. Thus, Ralph is already our friend, and Ron will be when he joins the fight as on our side, even if only long enough to win this existanal battle.

Government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob..... FDR


[ Parent ]
Barack Obama. . . (4.00 / 1)
. . . in his role as President of the United States, is the only fish in the world who has the power to change the nature of the water he swims in. In January of 2009, Obama decided he wanted to swim comfortably with Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, and the editorial board of the Washington Post. He was going to be "bi-partisan" or "post-partisan" or some other bullshit.

I really don't see him as a sellout. I think his ego and his entourage convinced him he could charm and finessse his way to progressive success. He's managed to chalk up a few significant victories, but in the process he has diminished himself. He's now more of a spectator than a leader. And that's mostly his fault.

There's only do much that us peons on the left can do to move the ball forward. The next Democratic president needs to be a killer.


Barack Obama Is Very Fortunate (4.00 / 1)
that Martin Luther King didn't think like you.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Martin Luther King. . . (0.00 / 0)
was not a politician.

[ Parent ]
Nope (4.00 / 4)
He was a "peon on the left" just like you and me.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]




USER MENU


blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you

Donate to Open Left

QUICK HITS
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

STATE BLOGS