The ground zero strip club & the great mosque hoax

by: Paul Rosenberg

Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 09:00


So, if Ground Zero is so holy and all, how come there's never been any outcry about the Gound Zero Strip Club (aka "The Pussycat Lounge")?  

That's one of many good questions asked at Mahablog last Friday:

So over the past several days here on this blog I have documented that within a three-block radius of the area called Ground Zero there are at least two strip clubs, plus a number of bars (one popular with lesbians). This morning through googling I found a lingerie and porn video shop about two blocks south of Ground Zero that a reviewer calls "grimy" and "sleazy." Those establishments have existed in close proximity to Ground Zero lo these many years, and no one seemed to care.

Yet talk about putting up a cultural center within this same area, one that won't even be visible from the Ground Zero site, and suddenly people start squawking about "hallowed ground" and "sacrilege." Give me a break.

Here's a typical example of "sacred ground" narrative cited at Mahablog, from Jennifer Rubin, who writes for Commentary:

The left continues to feign confusion (it is hard to believe its pundits are really this muddled) as to the reasons why conservatives (and a majority of fellow citizens) oppose the Ground Zero mosque. No, it's not about "religious freedom" - we're talking about the location of the mosque on the ash-strewn site of 3,000 dead Americans.

Geeze, I know conservatives think public employees are worse then useless, but it's been nine years already.  Look ma!  No ash!  Not even in the strip clubs!

The more you look at it, the more this ginned up rightwing outrage starts to look like the destruction of ACORN, the forced resignation of Van Jones and the character assisination of Shirley Sherrod. What they all have in common--in addition to their rightwing origins: They're all HOAXES!

There are at least five major aspects of the rightwing narrative about the Manhattan mosque that are patently false and misleading, all contributing to a completely false presentaiton of the factual situation:

    (1) It's not a mosque, it's a cultural center, including a mosque as just one part of it.

    (2) The people involved in establishing the mosque are not just opponents of terrorism, they are ideological enemies of the terrorists.

    (3) The 9/11 victims, as well as first responders included Moslems.

    (4) As indicated above, there has been no special attitude of "sacredness" applied to the area where the cultural center is being built. Other structures in the area include bars, strip clubs and betting parlors.

    (5) Finally, there is no special opposition to the cultural center from 9/11 survivor families. The only pre-existing family organization to take a stand endorsed the center.

More on that final point on the flip, also from Mahablog:

Paul Rosenberg :: The ground zero strip club & the great mosque hoax
A September 11 Family Association Supports the Islamic Center
Aug 3, 2010

maha

There's a lot of squawking about how the proposed Islamic center in lower Manhattan would cause pain to the families of September 11 victims, so it should not be built. But some of those families are Muslim. And notice that most of the people presuming to speak for the families of September 11 victims do not belong to families of September 11 victims, who as far as I know have not been polled for their opinions.

The Families of September 11 have made no statement about the Islamic Center that I could find on their website. The September 11 Families' Association website hosts some news stories about the Islamic Center, but I could find no opinion or position about it on that site, one way or another.

But the September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, a group founded and steered by families of September 11 victims, has issued a strong opinion. It supports the building of the Islamic Center.

I realize some individuals who lost family members on September 11 have vocally opposed the Islamic Center, but it's a leap to assume that they speak for anyone but themselves. So I say again to Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, and the rest of the buttinskys who don't live in New York and have no personal connection to those who died there - MYOB.

We need to realize that conservatives do much more than just lie.  A lie is a single untruth.  Conservatives never content themselves with a single untruth.  They construct layers upon layers of lies, intersecting narratives, cross-connecting patterns of deceit. These are not always easy to detect in isolation, because lies are often difficult to detect as such on the individual level.  How do you know that person X didn't know fact Y?  

But as former federal prosecutor Elizabeth De La Vega argued, the invasion of Iraq was the product of a deliberate fraud, and proving that does not require proving specific lies.  It's enough to show that there was a deliberate intent to mislead.  And the same is true in the care of hoaxes.  Indeed, one could argue that a fraud is merely a specific kind of hoax.  The intent in both cases is to create a false impression, from which false inferences will be drawn. It is not necessary that deliberate lies be told.  Indeed, sometimes it is most telling how carefully the perpetrators avoid telling lies, carefully avoiding saying something specific, while clearly leading people to believe it.  Creating the false impression of  conneciton between Iraq and 9/11 was a classic example of this.


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Too Funny and Thank You (4.00 / 4)
The strip club angle is particularly apt given the prissiness (or feigned prissiness) of the people pushing the mosque story. You also could add, as #6:

A group of progressive Muslim-Americans plans to build an Islamic community center two and a half blocks from ground zero in lower Manhattan. They have had a mosque in the same neighborhood for many years. There's another mosque two blocks away from the site. City officials support the project. Muslims have been praying at the Pentagon, the other building hit on Sept. 11, for many years.

TWO mosques near hallowed ground for years, in addition to strip clubs. But the Salon article clearly points to May 8 and May 13 columns by Andrea Peyser at the NY Post (a Murdoch property, the people who just gave $1,000,000 to Republicans) that kicked off this hoax and faux controversy by using the language of a Republican hack, Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugged.

Also, the 9/11 families rightly have been divided on any number of issues related to what happens in that part of Manhattan. Three thousand people died there and you can't expect their survivors to agree in lockstep. So support or lack of support is not a viable way to make decisions. You have to look at other factors in addition to their support or lack of support.

And you're also correct that this is a case of the Republicans tickling the lizard brains in their supporters to keep them motivated and in a state of panic. There's an election coming up, too, this fall.

Thanks for giving prominent focus on the apparent fact this story is a hoax along the lines of ACORN, Shirley Sherrod, and so on. I'd forgotten Van Jones, oddly enough. Let's hope real Democrats push back loudly with the facts and force the media to acknowledge this story is ginned up. Surely Alan Grayson can come up with a cutting way to destroy this story that makes Republicans (and scared Democrats) look like fools.


The proposed Mousque (4.00 / 1)
is not at fricken ground zero.  Why is this so hard for people to get.  It is NEAR it, but many things are NEAR it.

It is NOT a MOSQUE! n/t (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
I've passed the point of exhaustion. (4.00 / 3)
This "issue" [Teh Mosque!!!11!!1!] is, quite simply, crazy.  And, I'm beginning to question my own sanity for devoting any more time to it.

The point you make, however, isn't.

The more you look at it, the more this ginned up rightwing outrage starts to look like the destruction of ACORN, the forced resignation of Van Jones and the character assisination of Shirley Sherrod. What they all have in common--in addition to their rightwing origins: They're all HOAXES!

This is a genuine issue, and one for which I have no solution, unless there is something we can pour into the water supply.  

If we had a system of governance in place, I've a feeling these kinds of distractions would die a lot more rapidly.  Instead we have elected leaders who (1) need to phone into their corporate donors to see what they're position is, (2) then discern in which direction the media is running (who have also phoned into their corporate sponsors), to (3) figure out how best to use the demagoguery du jour in their next campaign.  In a statistical sense, the disconnect between what's significant and what's important is stunning.  



I Think It's Important To Get The Hoax Framework Out There For People To Use (4.00 / 5)
I plan to explore it further in the days to come.  Arming ourselves with effective ideas is one thing we can do.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
It is pathological with them, the lying, isn't it? (4.00 / 4)
It's like they can't breath without telling a lie every second. I'm convinced that, whether or not they actually believe their lies, they don't just lie to achieve certain ends. They lie because they literally need to lie, psychologically, so messed up are they in the head that reality is simply too horrific a thing to deal with on its own terms. We're dealing with a movement that's little more than a constellation of collective personality disorders struggling with its endless demons.

And society ends up with the collateral damage.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


Conservatism Impairs People's Ability To Function (4.00 / 3)
and the more impaired they are, the more they need to lie.

So, yes, I agree with you 100%.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I'd say it works even more the other way (4.00 / 2)
Conservatism tends to attract people who are already not entirely dealing from a full deck, morally or mentally, who appreciate and make ample use of its ability to justify their behavior and give them false hope and things to be mad about. It's the political and moral ideology of the weak and put-upon--as well as the strong and sociopathic, of course. Political and moral fast food, supersized!

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
It Works Both Ways (0.00 / 0)
Circular causality.  Level 4 thinking.  At a minimum.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
that's harsh (4.00 / 1)
I do know some people who are conservative in some important respects that I would hesitate to call cognitively impaired or pathological liars. For instance, they believe a limited government should not tell people how to live in their own homes. They believe deficit spending without end is dangerous. They believe raping the environment undermines economic and social stability. They believe wars of choice squander lives and treasure. If religious, they take seriously the 10 commandments and believe moral people do not lie. If they oppose government programs to aid the vulnerable they do believe and act to support charities. They believe in the importance of thrift. They view healthy families as the foundation of strong societies. In short, they believe a lot of things I believe and many more I do not, or at least not in the way they do. But they have principles and try to remain true to those principles.

And they were kicked out of the Republican party some time in the 1970s or before.

"No, his mind is not for rent to any god or government" - Neil Peart


[ Parent ]
That's the problem with using the word "conservative." (4.00 / 1)
I try to avoid using it at all, unless I'm referring specifically to paleo-conservatives, which are the same people you're referring to. People like my father and grand parents, for instance, who were basically Rockefeller Republicans, rather conservative, but well to the left of where "neo-conservatives" are.

So the only critique I would offer kovie is that he/she use the "neo" or "paleo" to differentiate for clarity.

Neo-conservatives are not conservatives at all, nor more than neo-liberals are liberals. They are both anti-liberal and anti-conservative... which is to say it is perhaps more accurate to label them "proto-fascist" than anything else. But that's another matter.

"Nobody is actually starving. The hobos, for example, are better fed than they have ever been. Hobos are eating well, in fact one had ten meals in a single day." -- Pres. Herbert Hoover, 1932


[ Parent ]
Valid points (0.00 / 0)
My only quibble is that the paleo category as you define it would have to include sane conservatives like Andrew Bacevich, John Dean and Kevin Phillips as well as crazies/liars/racists like Pat Buchanan, the Pauls and Joe Scarborough.

I prefer classical conservatives to describe the former, to distinguish from the "angry white man" latter types.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Two points (4.00 / 1)
One, by conservatism, I meant its modern, faux, degenerate and opportunistic form that's hardly conservative in many ways (including the ones that you cited), and not classical Burkean/Hamiltonian conservatism, which the people you know are likely more aligned with, and which has far more in common with modern liberalism than does modern conservatism.

And two, just because modern conservatism tends to attract crazies and stupids doesn't mean that they're the only types involved in it. I mean, there's also crooks, sociopaths, cynics, cowards, etc. I mean, it's SUCH a diverse movement!

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
No difference (4.00 / 4)
None of the facts make any difference.  We are dealing with emotions here.  I was talking to my girl friend who works in NYC and worked there on September 11.  She's dead set against the mosque.  She couldn't tell me how far away was OK.  She thought that not enough time had passes and she clearly wanted another twenty years or more.  Most disturbing, she said she needed "satisfaction" and hadn't gotten it.  Mention that we had killed hundreds of thousands of Moslems?  No deal.

All 1.6 billion Moslems (www.islamicpopulation.com) are equally guilty, not just the 20 bombers or the few planners.  The idea that this is Republican propaganda to win an election doesn't matter.  There is no way to satisfy this.  We can't kill enough Moslems.  We can'rt put enough limits.  We can't waste enough money.  Facts?  This has nothing to do with facts.  Republican arguments to the masses are entirely based on emotions.  The fact that these emotions lead to wrong responses doesn't matter.

Fight fire with fire and go after the Wall Street greedsters.  Works for me.


Sure It's Emotion (4.00 / 4)
but the reason it's so effective is that it's a complexely structured lie--a hoax.  If there's a chance they can start to see through one part of it, they come smack dab up against another emotion-laden lie.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
In my experience (4.00 / 4)
most people, no matter how educated and professionally successful, functionally operate at the mental level of a dense sixth grader outside their areas of expertise, and don't have the slightest clue about it, or care. Which is why facts and logic just can't seem to penetrate. They're simply not intellectually developed enough to know how to process them.

Add to this prejudices, propaganda, and the way that life's pressures make it hard to be able to think too long and hard on matters not of immediate importance, and you can seen why people like your friend, as with people I know, engage in such transparently stupid (not to mention offensive) thinking.

And the propaganda masters on the right know this, and how to exploit it. As they so clearly, cleverly and cynically do.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Actually, There's Some Truth To This (4.00 / 4)
Howard Gardiner--the multiple intelligences guy--has done considerable research showing that people don't tend to get rid of bad, primitive cognitive models.

The result is not only that people with advanced degrees tend to think very crudely outside their areas of expertise, but even that experts tend to think crudely in their own fields, if presented with problems outside of the setting they're used to dealing with them in.

What's needed, he discovered, is an active destruction of the old models.  Simply learning a better model does nothing to eradicate the old one that continues serving as an unconscious default.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I'm not entirely sanguine about this (0.00 / 0)
I suspect that much of the ability to "think outside the box" is something that you're largely born with cognitively and choose to engage in consciously, a choice that is at least partly a character-based one (because it's harder). How many people are born this intelligent AND moral? Not many, I suspect.

But perhaps it's possible to gradually raise the overall collective cognitive and even moral level. Not sure how. Surely it begins very, very early in life, at the pre-school level if not earlier. Early childhood teaching systems like Montessori seem to understand this better than most. Perhaps kids who go through such systems end up better equipped to fight off the inevitable assaults on the cognitive skills and tendencies that they acquire in preschool from society, the media, their parents, a poor educational system, etc.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Don't Get Too Damn Melodramatic, Please! (0.00 / 0)
The same principle is very well understood by arts, dance, and athletic educators.  Wherever the body is palpably involved, it seems that educators have long recognized the need to eradicate false foundations in order to establish true ones.  It's presumably just because the results are less obvious, less immediately visible that instructors in other fields have never (as a whole) gotten the same message.

And, of course, this means there's no call for such universal gloom on your part.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Perhaps if I lived in a country (0.00 / 0)
where there was broad empirical evidence to support your optimism, in the form of people being more skeptical of bad thinking and engaged in good thinking, I'd be as optimistic as you. But when one lives in a country in which up to 80% of the populations disputes evolution in part or whole, it's kind of hard to do that.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
and half... (4.00 / 1)
at least a few years ago I read that more than half the country believes the biblical armageddon story is exactly how the world will end and many that this is a good thing, rapture and all that.

But I think the reality gets better when one starts to ask about specific issues and not grand religious narratives.

"No, his mind is not for rent to any god or government" - Neil Peart


[ Parent ]
Yeah but people open to such crazy ideas (0.00 / 0)
are likely not thinking about more concrete issues in much more substantive ways, even if they're on the "right" side of these issues. This all goes to Paul's multilevel model of cognition. E.g. 1 + 1 = 2 means totally different things to a layperson than to a mathematician. Or, "Social Security is not going broke" mean different things to a loyal Democratic rank and filer than to an expert on retirement accounting. So while I appreciate that many more Americans appear to be more reality-based on serious issues than on mythical ones, I have to wonder with what level of depth and understanding--and committment.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
"unconscious default" (4.00 / 1)

Simply learning a better model does nothing to eradicate the old one that continues serving as an unconscious default.

That might be the same thing as the tendency to remember and believe the lie, the first thing one heard, despite being presented with facts that prove the untruth. Ever since I read an article describing this behavior I've become more convinced of the importance of hitting hard and immediately against lies. It's the only defense, and even then who knows how effective, which is maddening because it gives such an advantage to liars.

Perhaps this is why you say:

What's needed, he discovered, is an active destruction of the old models.


[ Parent ]
Bingo! And, as a bonus, this works both ways. (0.00 / 0)
We've all watched in horror how the old models (the classical liberal ones based on reason or at least willingness to reason) have also been actively destroyed... and now here we are, with Democratic elites pandering to bigots as if that's somehow sane or "reasonable."

"Nobody is actually starving. The hobos, for example, are better fed than they have ever been. Hobos are eating well, in fact one had ten meals in a single day." -- Pres. Herbert Hoover, 1932

[ Parent ]
True (4.00 / 1)
That's why an effective counterargument would need to be a Bloomberg-like appeal to the emotions, the "best of America" and such. Dems obviously don't have it in them.

The issue will probably die down in September, that's the good news. The bad news is people will vote on the economy.  


[ Parent ]
Someone should ask President Petraeus what he thinks (4.00 / 3)
It's become an important issue. Crazy but true. We simply can't let the bigots win. (A march in lower Manhattan, anyone?)

Although I'm confident Dems are overestimating how much people care about this--how deep, really, is the opposition?--- to win this debate would require a kind of political courage Dems just don't have.

(Three cheers for Alexi Giannoulias--I think he's the only Dem in a close race who's taken the right position.)  


Anti-mosque rally -- on 9/11. Oy. (4.00 / 1)
I'm one of the New York reporters who was within 10 blocks of ground zero when the second tower fell, and who covered rebuilding at the site for two years after Sept. 11, 2001, as a beat, and then on and off after - and I can say first-hand that there is usually a moratorium on political activity that day that's self-imposed.

So I was a bit surprised to see a rally being hosted by, among others, Pamela Geller, the conservative blogger who basically drove the mosque story off an initial New York Times story last December before the tabloids weighed in, on Sept. 11 this year, near the proposed mosque site.  

The alert says that this is the list of confirmed speakers; 9/11 family members; former U. S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton; former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich; Dutch Parliamentarian and freedom fighter Geert Wilders; Gary Berntsen, a candidate for the U.S. Senate from New York; Jordan Sekulow of the American Center for Law and Justice, which has filed suit to stop the so-called ground zero mosque; Ginny Thomas, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas's wife; Michael Grimm, a candidate for Congress from New York's 13th district and a Sept. 11 first responder; and blogger Andrew Breitbart.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/...


[ Parent ]
The American Arm of Al Qaeda! (4.00 / 5)
That's what they are, and that's what we should call them.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
It's impossible to overstate the odiousness (4.00 / 2)
For years conservatives have claimed (falsely) that no Muslims are willing to take a stand against AQ. Here's an anti-AQ Muslim leader who went so far as to help the FBI--(I might oppose the mosque for that reason (joke)--so naturally the right persecutes him!

[ Parent ]
What Could Be More Threatening To Their Identity??? (0.00 / 0)
Really?  What's to be surprised about?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
They should be free to hold that rally (0.00 / 0)
It's not like 9/11 should be considered as some sort of sacred space on the calender where nothing else is allowed to take place (although I am a bit surprised there is no movement to make it a federal holiday).  I don't see any compelling reason to agree to a self-imposed moratorium on political activity on the anniversary of 9/11.

I'd be curious to see if there are any counter-protests planned.  If it were up to me, I'd find some big black guys to wear suits and sunglasses and stand menacingly nearby and allow people at the rally to interpret them as Muslim bodyguards sent by Obama to terrorize the group.  Or hire mimes to do an irreverent re-enactment of 9/11.  Or run around like kids with arms outstretched and making vroom-vroom sounds like airplanes and come really, really close to running into rally participants.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
Oh, I agree (0.00 / 0)
And I assume the organizers of the event want people to object, so that they can call hypocrisy on the 1st amendment,  

[ Parent ]
Well, of course (0.00 / 0)
Which is why I think the worst response is try to rationally debate about why they are wrong and the best response is to do some live-action trolling and try to provoke them into an indefensible violent reaction that is caught on camera.  

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
Why not a counter-rally? (4.00 / 3)
Joe Scarborough claims he's disgusted with Republicans who clamor in opposition; invite him.

Bruce Fein, a conservative legal scholar, would surely attend.

Col. Lawrence Wilkerson (US Army, Ret.), Colin Powell's Chief of Staff, would no doubt attend.

I have no doubt that we could get numerous retired military personnel to attend, to explain how they fought and bled to defend the Constitution, and how they will not stand idly by while it is assaulted by self-serving, anti-American politicians.

We could assemble a wide-ranging interfaith alliance in support.

We could hit back, hard, with military and diplomatic analysts who could explain the (obvious) point that, by having the Center built as planned, we will counteract those radical Wahabbists who contend that America is at war with Islam.

But, we won't.  Because the progressive left is disorganized, weak, and unwilling to fight.


[ Parent ]
To me, it's more of an absolute 1st amendment right (4.00 / 1)
Even if the hoax were true, they'd have the right to build anyway.

Just as any other religious group has a right to build in a similar location.


ground zero (4.00 / 3)
The main issue is the complete inability of the media to provide the facts and to repeat the facts in every story dealing with the cultural center.  The media takes the symbolic framework provided by the right for granted and then builds stories around it.  It is impossible to have rational discussions when facts are made irrelevant.  When lunatics spout nonsense and rage,  journalists should counter with reality claims  

That's Why I'm Talking About It As A HOAX (4.00 / 4)
Calling it a hoax is a framework for questioning everything about it, and attacking the press for failing to do its job as well.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I appreciate your efforts (4.00 / 1)
but do you really think that calling this a "hoax", even when capitalized and bolded, to a audience that is very likely to agree with you is ever gonna confront or change this:

The media takes the symbolic framework provided by the right for granted and then builds stories around it.

How likely is it that the "hoax" framework is going supplant that provided by the right and promoted by the media?  

As truthful , insightful and accurate as your analyses are - you are shouting into a hurricane.

I realize its not your fault and you are doing all you can to be heard, but the frustration is intense.

How do we get this narrative out there in the M$M where screwheads like Gingrich will have to answer to it?

Sometimes I think we need to be as irrational as the right. Take the whole thing about strip clubs "at Ground Zero". Instead of the rational approach you present in your diary, why not go and protest those clubs and demand they be removed from the "sacred ground" of Ground Zero? In fact, no capitalism should be allowed on that "Sacred Ground Zero". Nothing but an overgrown, unkempt plot of land. That's the only fair and balanced memorial. One hand painted sign reading "oh crap", maybe, but nothing else. No living humans should be allowed within 2 blocks of the place unless they can prove that they are a direct blood relative of one of the victims. Any picture of representation of any kind of aircraft should be banned within a 2 block radius, as well.

Apparently, the raving lunatics spouting nonsense and bullshit get to drive the news cycle - so why not become like a raving lunatic?

When insanity is the currency of the land, the sane are impoverished.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
You Should Know By Now, I'm "Mr.Both/And" (0.00 / 0)
I'm for scholarship and snark!

And no one person can ever do enough of either.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
So (0.00 / 0)
when is the public debate with Gingrich?

Perhaps he should be granted Right to Respond?

Those pesky GOPpers are screaming about not being allowed to express themselves openly - maybe its time to call their bluff?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
MOCs loudly opposing this are OATHBREAKERS (0.00 / 0)
The Oath of Office for Congresspersons:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

Why can't the Democratic "leadership" seize upon this point?  These people are breaking their oaths--solemn promises--to support and defend the Constitution!  Why can't the leadership turn the tables, and point out that, if they will break even their solemn oaths before God, they can't be trusted at all?  Aside from being absolutely true, this point could be used to political advantage.


And how come no one cares that there is a (4.00 / 1)
Christian church near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing.
Tim McVeigh was a Christian.  Should not that church have moved, just cuz it would be the right thing to do???

That's about the mentality I see coming out of this "majority of Americans" who apparently think that the Muslims should voluntarily move their location....


omg (0.00 / 0)
I've actually BEEN to the pussycat lounge, which is more a burlesque room than a strip club.

I'm not too big on naked lady clubs (if i'm going to have a boner it's not gonna be in a roomful of other dudes with boners, it's gonna be with a naked lady that is naked because she wants to have sex with me, not because I'm slinging dollars her way), but I was there to see my drummer's other band, which was playing after the naked lady show.

Every 20 minutes or so, a girl would climb down from the stage and mingle with the customers,while a new one took her place and commenced wiggling. I watched a new girl climbed up and as she got naked, I realized that she was practically a dead ringer for my girlfriend and I started laughing. "Now look at this chick," I said to my buddy, pointing. "What am I wasting time here for, all this makes me want to do is go home and have sex with my girl."
"Don't look, don't look," he said. "It'll only rile you up. The worst thing you can do is look at these girls, it'll drive you nuts."

So I left. I kinda didn't see the point of spending that much on beer ($7.00 for BUDWEISER) for to not watch naked ladies.


Hmmm... And Here I Thought That "Burlesque Room" Was Just Expense Account For "Stip Club" (0.00 / 0)
And, reading down a bit, I see that I was right.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
How come there's no outcry about the Ground Zero Strip Club(s)? - Rosenberg (0.00 / 0)
SHERLOCK'S ANSWER: "Elementary, my dear Mr.Watson (né Rosenberg). Because this whole thingy was spawned in the very screwed-up brain of one Pamela Geller, and she really digs strip clubs!"
 

Framing (0.00 / 0)
Part of the problem arises from allowing the site of the destroyed buildings to be known as "Ground Zero."  Stop using this apocalyptic framing.  The world did not begin anew on Sept 11, 2001 in lower Manhattan.  It is a vacant lot, due to terrorism.  There are many terrorism sites in the world.  There is one in Oklahoma City.





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