Dump Obama? Not in my precinct!

by: Paul Rosenberg

Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 12:00


I.

Back in 2003 or so, when I first wore my anti-Bush t-shirt with the slogan "A hard reign's a gonna fall", I got a fair amount of smiles from my mostly Democratic neighbors.   But even though I'm painfully aware of how much more continuity Obama's brought than change, I definitely would not expect a similar response if I were to don a "Dump Obama" t-shirt.

Can anyone tell why?

Here's the block I live on (2000 census, but the overall racial/ethnic mix hasn't changed that much):

And here's the 8-block census tract:

Of course there's no way to tell, but I generally get the impression that most of those pushing to "Dump Obama" are not only white, but travel in mostly-white circles.  Well, the faces I see everyday when I step outside are not.  About 1/4 white, tops.  That's what I see. And that's a pretty fundamental reason that I think all this "dump Obama" talk is pure poppycock--or worse.

In one of the earliest diaries at Open Left, "Toward A Pluralist Strategy" Chris wrote:

Starting with a series of three posts back in early April 2005, The Future of the Electorate, The Future of the Electorate, Part Two [page missing, alas!], and Maybe It Is A Battle Of Civilizations, for a little over two years now I have argued that a pluralistic vs. monoculture vision of identity politics, specifically based largely in ethnicity and religion, is the fundamental difference between the Democratic and Republican coalitions both now, and probably for the foreseeable future.

This is something that Democratic strategists sort of half-realize, but really don't want to.  Like zombies, they just can't help themselves, they've got to chase after the brains of white people. But the more sophisticated strategy is what might be called--hearking back to the 1990s--the "Benetton Strategy", in which a basically bland universalist marketing strategy is accessorized with a broad pallet e of different skin tones.  Obama represents the latest incarnation of this--but he still has that old zombie hankering that he just can't quit, which caused him to pre-compromise everything he started.  

While it's pretty much obvious to all of us by now what a sure loser that is, this realization has not penetrated the core of the pluralistic identity culture that Chris wrote about. Disappointment and frustration have certainly touched many in that core, but that's about it.

Paul Rosenberg :: Dump Obama? Not in my precinct!

II.

To go from that stage to outright rejection is still a very, very long and difficult journey.  One person who has posted here has some idea of how that journey might be charted--at least for one specific constituency, and that is Bruce Dixon, whose sights are clearly set on the state-level politics of Georgia, which neatly circumvents the national level politics of Obama as its chief focus, and takes aim squarely at an overwhelmingly important issue that state-level Democratic have almost entirely abdicated:  mass incarceration.   No state is better primed for such a strategy, and if it should show signs of initial success, it could well spark imitators elsewhere.  But it is not a "Dump Obama" movement, and indeed it's potential success is in large measure dependent on establishing itself outside of the entire parameter system implied by the "Dump Obama" narrative.

Bruce's strategy is probably too radical for my precinct, at least to begin with.  But he's not trying to get his start here.  With a foothold established elsewhere, people in my precinct could well be won over.  There's certainly nothing in it that would automatically repulse the majority of them. But a "Dump Obama" t-shirt most assuredly would.

Of course there is more to politics than wearing a t-shirt.  But it's often a useful test to consider, "If I want to persuade people, what sort of t-shirt would I wear?  What would I put on my bumper sticker?

"The labor movement: The folks who brought you the weekend," is still a tough one to beat for historical purposes.  But what about fighting for the future?  That's a whole lot tougher.  But tough as that might be, it's far, far tougher still if you devote yourself to a strategy that would never pass the t-shirt test in the heart of a core constituency.


III.

That's part of what I was getting at when I first wrote about "Underpants Gnome politics"

I wrote:

The South Park "Underpants Gnomes" had a simple business plan:
    Phase 1: Collect Underpants
    Phase 2: ?
    Phase 3: Profit

A similar sort of thinking seems to persist with many who are justifiably frustrated with the Democrat's failure to substantially break with Republican rule:
    Phase 1: Ditch Democrats
    Phase 2: ?
    Phase 3: Progressive Victory

God, I really do wish it would work.

And I invited Bruce to write, because he wasn't an Underpants Gnome.  He might be right, he might be wrong, but he had a track record of paying attention to results, and he had an empirically testable strategy in mind, in place of a "?" at Step 2.

Bruce's Step 2 is something like, "Organize against mass incarceration at the state level on the Green Party ticket".  Maybe it will work.  Maybe it won't.  But it's a plan. And we can both learn and profit from it, even if it does not succeed on its own.  As such, even if it should fail, it can be part of a larger historical learning process, a part of the journey that eventually leads to success.

And this is my challenge to everyone else on this site.  This is the Underpants Gnome challenge:

  • Come up with something credible to replace "?".

  • Come up with a bumper-sticker I can put on my car.

  • Come up with a t-shirt I can wear in my precinct, and have it be a conversation-starter, rather than a conversation-ender.

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This has been dealt with (4.00 / 4)
See Dump Obama:  notes on method.  It tears apart the entire Underpants Gnome schema itself, and as I state:

Central to all my thinking is the need for an independent left force, however small, that straddles progressive Democrats and progressive independents, which can BEGIN to seriously take on the forces of the right (whether Republicans or lurking INSIDE the Democratic Party).  I assert Dump Obama not as Progressive Victory, but as rather a pre-condition for seriously fighting for it.  As I have said in More Urgent, "An opening is only an opening.  The left would still have responsibility for how to use it."

Paul has stated:  "Bruce's Step 2 is something like, "Organize against mass incarceration at the state level on the Green Party ticket"."  And that is indeed a valid Step 2.

Methodology aside, my own tactical suggestion is to begin drawing lines in the sand.  Thus hammer at the Catfood Commission as grounds for Dump Obama.  Organize the unemployed, the homeless, the foreclosed, those falling through the safety net, as a base for Dump Obama.  One might critique those as vague, but hardly more vague than Bruce's.

Conceding that Bruce is a bit too left for his precinct, Paul wants to set up Bruce as the good radical and me as the bad one.  His walk down the street recalls Thomas Friedman's chats with taxi drivers as a font of wisdom.  But he doesn't even chat.  Suppose he started asking people in his precinct what they think about what Obama has done for joblessness in his precinct.  So as I state in my above-cited piece:

I'm not saying do this, do that, assured of progressive victory.  Anyone proclaiming a sure path to progressive victory is either a fool or a scoundrel or both.  I believe progressive business-as-usual is a slow -- and perhaps not so slow -- march off the precipice.


There is no answer for #2 as you present the problem (4.00 / 4)
Of course, that's the point.  But a long-term concerted effort at building politically engaged publics for left-wing positions on the local level - like incarceration in black and latin communities, mass transit where I live in NYC, civil liberties and infrastructure in rural areas - makes for a good #1, which would force Democratic candidates on the local and congressional level to incorporate left-wing positions into their platform.  

"Ditch Democrats" is stupid as a conscious strategy and unlikely to happen even as a byproduct of concerted movement organizing efforts.  There will be Democrats, but they will be forced to promote a different agenda if they want to get elected. They won't be "ditched" but some will be "transformed," and with them, the national party will be forced to respond.

People on the left who want to lead need to realize that leadership requires organizing self-aware groups who are mobilized in terms of issues and make demands of people in power so that those who will fail to heed them do so at their own peril. We're not close to anything resembling this yet. People need to channel their legitimate frustrations into productive activity. I refuse to vote for Barack Obama again, but I also won't give money to a left-wing presidential candidate over whomever will be the Russ Feingold of 2012.  


"Ditch Democrats" is Paul's formulation (0.00 / 0)
Not mine, which is Dump Obama.  Interesting that you say, "I refuse to vote for Barack Obama again."

As for, "I also won't give money to a left-wing presidential candidate over whomever will be the Russ Feingold of 2012," you raise an interesting question.  Paul's position is that any attempt to primary Obama would be disastrous as it would lead to a Republican president.  But am I wrong to think you would entertain a primary challenge by Feingold?

There are a lot of forces in play that make it hard to draw a roadmap to 2012.  Suppose there is no Feingold willing to primary Obama?  If Feingold were to run, how would he run?  If there were a left challenger, what support would she or he attract?  How about the general election were a Feingold lose in the primaries to a vicious left-baiting campaign by Obama?

A lot of possibilities.


[ Parent ]
Try Explaining The Difference To Folks In My Precinct (0.00 / 0)
"Ditch Democrats" is Paul's formulation

Not mine, which is Dump Obama.

Seriously, dude.  Just TRY explaining it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
What's so special about your precinct? (4.00 / 2)


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Sure (4.00 / 1)
Send me a round-trip plane ticket and taxi fare and I'd be glad to.

Or maybe when you're walking down the street, you could have them read this thread and give their own comments.


[ Parent ]
How bout (4.00 / 2)
"Evict the Democrats"?

with an eye toward organizing people who've lost their homes.


[ Parent ]
It's too similar to a bumpersticker I saw recently (4.00 / 4)
"Save Your Job, Vote Republican" - at first I thought it was ridiculous, but no more so than the converse, given the ideology driving DNC policy.  

How about "Evict Wall St."?


[ Parent ]
Now you are getting at the root cause (0.00 / 0)
It's not about party, its about them & us.  We have to define "them" before we dump or evict anyone.

Well said!

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


[ Parent ]
Paul's take is subtler than what you say (4.00 / 5)
It takes resources to mount an effective challenge to Obama.  A candidate could run against Obama from the left and force the President to co-opt some of his or her positions. But a single candidate merely cannot force Obama, after having won, to actually follow through and fight for those positions.  Hence, these resources would be squandered with nothing to show for having spent them.

Left-wing movements that organize groups behind specific issues can change the agenda over time. But as we've seen time and again, political campaigns aren't movements. Therefore, given where we're at in terms of movement building, "ditch Democrats" or "dump Obama" are interchangeable propositions. It's a quick fix that promises nothing over the long term and misrepresents political power as the product of individuals merely.

That someone like Feingold won't run is part of the point. In order to effectively run a primary challenge against a major party candidate in a national election, the contradictions between the establishment candidate's agenda and the preferences of powerful organized groups needs to be so immediately palpable as to be obvious and undeniable.

In such an environment, however, elite party types like Barack Obama - much like Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower in the past - would understand left-wing positions and groups like the labor movement as supremely rational.


[ Parent ]
My take is subtler than what you say (4.00 / 1)
It's a quick fix that promises nothing over the long term and misrepresents political power as the product of individuals merely.

And by so writing, you concede that Ditch Democrats and Dump Obama are NOT interchangeable.  I'm well aware of the limitations of Dump Obama.  That's why the alleged Gnome schema of 1. Dump Obama and 3. Progressive Victory embeds a huge distortion in the method itself.  I don't even consider Dump Obama a "quick fix," just a starting point.


[ Parent ]
They ARE interchangeable (4.00 / 3)
They're seek political action that targets individual candidates. You're proposing an organized effort to target specific Democrats - whether at the national, state or local levels - who fail to measure up to standards I likely support.

But this represents a top-down effort that fails to address the need for organized popular groups that make demands on power based on long-term issues. Political campaigns foreground individuals candidates over broader issues, the latter are always subordinate to the former.  

Real citizens need a politics that connects them with issues in a way that makes what's at stake in political decisions clear. This requires focusing on the difficult work of building popular constituencies for liberal socialist principles.

Back to the point, the individual candidate-as-target that drives "dump [X]" logic doesn't get at the problem of how to get people organized behind issues so that candidates will follow them, not the other way around.  


[ Parent ]
The moon and a lemon are also interchangeable (4.00 / 2)
... as they're both sort of roundish.

I'm not saying Dump X.  I'm saying Dump Obama.  Basic problems remain basic problems, and I'm not touting Dump Obama as a cure-all, despite the mischaracterizations of others.

But you make an interesting point when you say it:

doesn't get at the problem of how to get people organized behind issues so that candidates will follow them, not the other way around

I've seen this expressed on other comments on this thread, and at different times.  I believe you over-estimate the extent that candidates -- and certainly elected officials -- are responsive to public sentiment and even movement.

There was serious support for public option and repealing DADT, yet neither has happened.  One could argue forever that we haven't yet brought to bear ENOUGH pressure.  But it is both simpler and more accurate to state that our candidates and officials are bought by entrenched interests, and are ultimately loyal to those interests to the bitter end.

That is why I think so many Democrats will break before they bend.


[ Parent ]
Still the same logic: the individual candidate is the site of contest (4.00 / 2)
and that's weak sauce.

PBS aired a well-produced but somewhat half-baked, sentimental portrait of Hubert Humphrey last night, and he unabashedly called himself a liberal and launched into a defense of the welfare state, the expansion of educational opportunity, etc. in his 1968 campaign against Richard Nixon. He did this as a conscious strategy and nearly clawed his way back from a 20+ point deficit, all the while maintaining support for an increasingly unpopular war.  

Although by all accounts a caring, humane man, there was nothing immanent in his individual psychological makeup that made his advocacy for liberal socialist positions a logical choice. The movements that made jobs and freedom the defining focus of post-WWII political organizing in the United States did. And that's not something that can be done if we understand the campaigns of individual candidates as the ultimate site of political mobilization.  


[ Parent ]
Well put (0.00 / 0)
that's not something that can be done if we understand the campaigns of individual candidates as the ultimate site of political mobilization.

And I certainly don't.  Dump Obama is merely one transitional step.  Yes, there are dangers to over-personalizing things.  But such is the coin of the realm, and it can serve a transitional purpose in pulling together a left that is not suffering from an excess of unity.


[ Parent ]
Hard to do (4.00 / 2)
The momentum or inertia keeps incumbents safe through the re-nomination process even if they lose the general election as Taft, Hoover, Ford, and Bush I all did.

Only three incumbents eligible for re-election and capable of running (Wilson in 1920 was not capable of running) were not re-nominated.  Theodore Roosevelt chose not to run in 1908 and Truman and LBJ were essentially forced out by unpopular wars.

The best model seems to be 1968.  Start a movement against the incumbent.  Then get a candidate, almost any candidate.  Weakness will bring out a serious opponent and that will finish off the sitting President.

Obama, imo, is a far worse President than LBJ but he will be harder to push out before the general election.  I've been unable to find a national percentage for the percentage of Democrats who are black but it must be over 30% (12.9% of the national population, almost all are Democrats).  Throw that in with the strength of Versailles and some corporate money and it looks like a nomination lock.  Proportional representation means that evn if Obama loses most of the big states in the primaries as he did in 2008, he will pile up delegates.  The crushers would come in the deep south states and the heavily Republican states where the establishment will carry him.

I think the best idea was to organize as if Obama were not there.  Get an independent , more Progressive House and possibly Senate.  That seems to have beem thrown away with the economy as a millstone.  The Republicans are re-playing 1994 and we seem to be re-playing the Republican hand of 1930.  Not enough done for the people and way too much done for big businesses, big banks, and Wall Street.  That didn't work for Hoover but unfortunately Palin, Christie or Mitt Romney are no FDRs or Lincolns.


[ Parent ]
The best example is the conservatives after Goldwater lost in 1964 (4.00 / 2)


[ Parent ]
And how do you respond to this, from Ian Welsh? (4.00 / 1)
What is done is done. What needs to be done is this. The liberal wing of the Democratic party must be SEEN to take out Obama. There must be a primary challenge. If there is not, liberalism will be discredited for at least a decade, time America cannot afford, since liberal solutions work and conservative solutions, whether pushed by right wing Dems or Republicans, don't.

Are you a liberal first, or a Democrat? You can't be both.



[ Parent ]
My recommendation is "Ditch many Democrats" (4.00 / 1)
But not all.

From
A Proposed Framework for an Expanded Dump Obama Movement

So, to summarize, the 3 pillars of the Dump Obama movement that I'm suggesting are:
1) Dump Obama
2) Dump Bad Dems at the Federal level
3) Dump all Dems (eventually) at the State level, and form a cooperative progressive Dem / progressive Green voting bloc. (Please see my diary on this subject: "Dump Corporate Dems" - Going Green at the State Level, to "make Dems do it" at the Federal level)

This will also help dispel any illusions that anybody might have that you are simply fixated on Obama.

re: 2) Dump Bad Dems at the Federal level
My recommendation for this is something like the Full Court Press at the primary level plus some reasonably agressive punishing type vote in the general election.

But not too punishing. Finding the right level of punishment votes (expressed as a percentage of Dem incumbents) is the job of a competent political game theorist, IMO.

However, if I wanted to take a stab at an optimal figure, I'd say something like 10% of the House Dem incumbents, and 7% of the Senate Dem incumbents.



435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
This Sounds Pretty Sensible To Me, wobbly (0.00 / 0)
Downright sober, in fact.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
How is this NOT dump Obama? (4.00 / 2)
I refuse to vote for Barack Obama again

Maybe, "Refusiate Obama" is clearer?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Do you truly not recognize the difference (4.00 / 3)
between the actions of an individual voter strictly defined and the fact that that voter sees organizing movements dedicated to not voting for Obama as wildly stupid?

[ Parent ]
Oh, that difference (4.00 / 2)
At a time when organizing is most important, you shy away from trying to convince others to join you.

That seems even less effective than the plan you label as "stupid".



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Do you even bother to read what people write? (4.00 / 2)
You're clearly intelligent, so why don't you get that when I say that I favor issue-oriented organizing, I'm not saying "don't organize."



[ Parent ]
Maybe his goals aren't the same as yours. (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
I was very specific in my comments (4.00 / 2)
and they pertained to the "Obama Issue".

The only difference you indicated between "Dump Obama" and your personal decision not to vote for him was to point to the level of organization.

If witholding your personal vote from Obama is a good idea, why should others be castigated for proposing to organize on that issue?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Do you even bother to read what people write? (4.00 / 1)
She doesn't say that you said "don't organize."  Her point is that sometimes you have to try to convince people to join you, rather than tailoring your approach to a mechanical reflection of where people are currently at.

In my words now, the approach has to be dynamic.  We have to make some attempt to gauge social motion, that what people will support today may not be the same as what people will support next year, another year without jobs, benefits running out, the streets getting harder, etc.

Otherwise, you find yourself in the position of lagging behind social movement and -- at worst -- trying to drag it back.

Now you may disagree with my assessment of where things will be next year.  That's a legitimate discussion.  My take is that things are going to be a hell of a lot worse for many, many people, and that forms the base for Dump Obama taking off.  And I fully support issue-oriented organizing.  Dump Obama is only one focal point based on such organizing.


[ Parent ]
Huh? (4.00 / 1)
Explain the difference in practice that distinguishes "try[ing] to convince people to join you" from "tailoring [an] approach" to a problem.  What you say about "a mechanical reflection of where people are currently at" doesn't connect in an explicit way to any one thing I said than to anything else, so it's kinda meaningless, as hyper-aestheticized descriptions of political positions tend to be.  

[ Parent ]
Amen! (0.00 / 0)
so it's kinda meaningless, as hyper-aestheticized descriptions of political positions tend to be.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Here we can have overlapping notions (0.00 / 0)
There is no necessary difference.  And I am certainly tailoring an approach to a problem.  But there could be a difference in the extent we are tailoring to existing attitudes rather than changing attitudes, and your comment is somewhat muddled in this regard.

hyper-aestheticized?  WTF is that in English?


[ Parent ]
My comment about not convincing people to join you (4.00 / 2)
was specifically about your personal decision not to vote for Obama.

It seems to me that your position on Obama is one chosen so that YOU can have the personal satisfaction of not voting for him, while your lack of interest in organizing others to join in your opposition will make it likely that he will win the nomination despite your opposition.

Now, THAT is a wasted vote.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Spend your time talking about people (0.00 / 0)
and I'll talk about issues.  But then again, I prefer I.F. Stone to Oprah Winfrey.

[ Parent ]
I'll talk about both, thank you very much (4.00 / 1)
Your citing two people in a comment claiming to talk about issues, pretty much tells me that you will too.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
I.F. Stone talked about groups and issues (0.00 / 0)
Oprah talks about individuals and sentiment, so not really.

Nice try at a "gotcha" moment however.


[ Parent ]
I have no idea what Oprah talks about (4.00 / 2)
never seen her show.

I like Stone, though.

The thing is, BOTH people and issues are at work in our system. You've managed to avoid that point when it has suited your "argument".

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
The movement precedes everything else (4.00 / 4)
If you have the movement capable of ditching the democrats in a clear way that communicates to them why they're being dumped, you will change the democrats' behaviour in such a way that they don't need to be dumped.

If you don't have that movement, you won't change the democrats, anyway.  


[ Parent ]
Well, Iowa and New Hampshire (4.00 / 6)
are mostly white, so the dynamic you touch on wouldn't stop an anti-war, anti-corporate challenger from getting traction in those two states. And traction in those first 2 contests would make the point and perhaps lead to something valuable.

If the topic were dumping Obama, my t-shirt would read "More Democracy, not less."

If the topic were more broad -- trying to create an alternative to the Democrats --  my t-shirt would read "Dump Democrats" or "American Labor Party," since the best way to develop an alternative in my view would be to convince disgruntled union members to break away from both Dems and their union leaders who keep selling them out. Also to scoop up some GOP union members. And perhaps to recruit a well-known labor leader or two to join the cause. And then move on to exploited, anxious non-unionized workers and exploited, anxious white collar workers...

I respect your realism to some degree, but, as we likely plunge headlong into a deeper recession and possible social strife, to fail to see the possibility of a striking jolt to our one-party system is to show a striking lack of imagination.



There's A Deep Misconception (4.00 / 4)
That just because I'm not hysterical, I don't think the situation is very serious.

To the contrary.  I've never regarded the Democratic Party as the vehicle of salvation, I've always regarded it as a sight of struggle.  And I regard abandoning such a place, where we have a substantial beachhead, as positively foolish precisely because the situation is so dire.

Of course, the dire situation also requires that we organize outside the party--and, as I've noted many times, I've spent much more time & energy in my life organizing around issues, rather than as a party activist.  So I'm not really arguing anything new for me.

But I don't see why "Dump Democrats" would be terribly compelling for progressives in my precinct.  "American Labor Party" could definitely be a step in the right direction, but only a step.  I was hoping for something that would actually help get folks moving--a one-step-after-the-other kind of thing.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Irony of ironies (4.00 / 1)
This is the regular fight I have at FireDogLake, where I am constantly arguing:

I regard abandoning such a place, where we have a substantial beachhead, as positively foolish precisely because the situation is so dire.

In other words, I catch flak for even bothering with something like Democratic primaries, or voting itself for that matter, when we should be overthrowing the entire capitalist system.  If I didn't find the Underpants schema inherently flawed, I would throw it at some of them.

I was hoping for something that would actually help get folks moving--a one-step-after-the-other kind of thing.

I couldn't agree with you more (but as jeffroby666 once said, "the devil is in the details").


[ Parent ]
In my experience (4.00 / 4)
people of all colors, especially but not exclusively the well-informed, are very open to at least discussing - if not yet voting for -- alternatives. (Moreover, some blacks--a friend tells me--discuss Obama's shortcomings quite openly when whites aren't around.)

And who're calling hysterical? No one's hysterical here so cut the bullshit.

Of course you think things are serious. It's clear from your writing that you do. My point is that if we do, in fact, see bread lines and riots, we might also see political ramifications that we can't predict, like the crack-up of the one-party system, and that more people that we could ever imagine now might get radicalized. Obama, in any case, will pass from the stage before long, and there likely won't be a Democrat who can protect his hold on the office largely because of his race.

Last, I find it interesting that you and Wobbly, who are both critical of the jeffRoby approach, are both very open to voting for a primary challenger. So how opposed, really, are to a challenge? Not at all, really.



[ Parent ]
Well, Duh! (0.00 / 0)
(Moreover, some blacks--a friend tells me--discuss Obama's shortcomings quite openly when whites aren't around.)

Blacks aren't stupid.  To the contrary, of necessity they are collectively the most savvy group in American politics.

My point is that if we do, in fact, see bread lines and riots, we might also see political ramifications that we can't predict, like the crack-up of the one-party system, and that more people that we could ever imagine now might get radicalized.

I think that's perfectly obvious. During the Great Depression, that took 2-3 years to happen.  Our timing's a bit different, but it's unlikely to happen earlier than next spring, unless the post-election dynamic dramatically accelerates things--always a possibility.  But, OTOH, it's probably more likely to take longer.  Still, I don't see much point in trying to act now as if that were already happening, when it's not.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The plot thickens! (4.00 / 2)
Our timing's a bit different, but it's unlikely to happen earlier than next spring

So, probability aside, it could be happening next spring.  I'm not sure it will, but that's an interesting statement.  To me, the question is, if it could be happening next spring, wouldn't it be prudent to begin preparing to intersect that moment, conjunctural analysis and all that.  And yes, I would guess that the "it" you reference isn't the same as a Dump Obama campaign, but "it" would be a key foundation for such.

From what I've been seeing looking around, SOME kind of primary challenge is in the wind.

You may notice that I call for a Dump Obama movement, not a particular candidate.  This is going to be messy, and I know you don't like that.  I don't like it either, but c'est la vie.

This movement, as all movements, will have a left, right and center.  One of the forces for Dump Obama, for instance, is die-hard Hillary Clinton fans.  There is sentiment for Dean and Feingold.  Will any of them run?  Depends in part on whether they see drastic measures required to SAVE the party from Obama.  He's been a serious liability this go-round, and unlike Bush loyalists in 2004, Democrats do not have the kind of discipline that Republicans have.

Another possibility.  Suppose some semi-major figure such as Jane Hamsher (and I make no statement about the likelihood of this, only to pose an example) were to decide to run independent.  This would be very different than the usual Green candidate, certainly not another Nader.  Would such a development provoke some in the Democratic Party to run someone to the left of Dean or Feingold to head her off at the pass?

So with various forces beginning -- albeit BARELY -- to jockey, it seems imperative that the left engage this as soon as possible so as to have maximum influence on how this plays out.  Dump Obama is no longer my personal fantasy, as if it were only that, you wouldn't have written this diary.


[ Parent ]
I'll Bite (4.00 / 6)
Here would be my formula:

1. Reform Democratic leadership and party
2. (in no particular order) Find/fund/run progressive candidates whose policies benefit the 99% who are not wealthy; take over state parties, starting with the easiest states and work towards more difficult states; promote/fund critical issues like campaign finance reform to take corporate money out of elections.
3. Democratic victory for the 99% who are not wealthy

Bumper Sticker: You should not have to be rich to buy a house, raise kids, enjoy a vacation, and be healthy.

T-shirt: Are you rich? Then please don't vote like you are.

I realize your diary is aimed at the dump the Democrats crowd but the real issue, for me, as a white boy, is that politically we have no choices. In 2012 it will be Obama (moderate to conservative Republican, definitely not for working people) against either a Mitt Romney (if we're lucky) or a Jim DeMint. Obama may win in either case but working people will lose in both cases. We won't have a choice until maybe 2016 and that's only if the progressive Democratic community does some or all of my Step 2 above (plus the stuff I left out). Plus we get lucky. It's 2020 or beyond that we'll maybe see a real choice in this country.

In truth, the country is currently run by a small group of people for the benefit of maybe a couple thousand extremely wealthy people plus some large number of giant global corporations. While a majority want a public option, for example, that policy impinges on the private insurance industry and, therefore, is a non starter despite public desire and need. The President and conservative Democrats are active participants in this sellout. Indeed, the President says he doesn't want to be seen as a "tax and spend liberal" even though majorities in this country want to re-tax the ultra wealthy and fund Social Security, Medicare, infrastructure, and some form of public option that keeps private insurance companies honest.

That's the depressing reality. The fact that mixed neighborhoods can't see they also have no choice, that the choices are the same in that Obama and the Republican will both screw them over, in a heartbeat, that's a real problem we need to identify and address regardless of our skin color.


suggestion (4.00 / 1)
swap your T-shirt and Bumper sticker slogans.

Shorter the better on the bumper.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Agreed (4.00 / 1)
There are no easy answers right now.  The closest thing we have to that is "give up looking for easy answers."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Giving Up = Surrender (0.00 / 0)
The sad truth is that, while we don't have much political power (except, as noted, to find/fund/run progressive politicians and the rest of Step 2), the current political structure is 100% unsustainable. It will crash.

The question is when and with how much collateral damage to innocent people. For example, not solving the health care crisis (which Obama's legislation will help resolve, to a point) means 45,000 people a year die needlessly because they're not wealthy enough to afford health care. Republicans truly do not care about this needless waste of lives (it's not their families and friends). Democrats should care and do care.

So the best option is to keep plugging away at Step 2.


[ Parent ]
Dump him (4.00 / 1)
"I generally get the impression that most of those pushing to "Dump Obama" are not only white, but travel in mostly-white circles. "

What do you suppose Obama's support among Latino voters is right now?  


I Think They're Disappointed (4.00 / 2)
but that doesn't mean they'd take all that kindly to a white dude wearing a "Dump Obama" t-shirt.  The best thing Obama has going for him with Latinos as a whole is the opposition of the Tea Baggers.  A white dude wearing a "Dump Obama" t-shirt would automatically activate some of that vibe, no matter what the intent might be.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
So obvious (4.00 / 1)
I keep waiting for Jeff to at least acknowledge his candidate to "Dump Obama" must be black.  I'm don't think that is sufficient, but it most certainly is necessary.

[ Parent ]
It would be an asset ... (4.00 / 2)
... but I would still prefer Howard Dean to Michael Steele if Steele were to convert.

I'm aware that race is an issue.  The case has to be made that Obama's policies aren't good for Blacks, Latinos or Muslims or Asians or Native Americans.  Yes, racial identity will come into play.  But "must be black" gives the party machine an automatic trump card.

So we have to make the case on the basis of jobs, unemployment benefits, homelessness, etc.  Whether or not the candidate were Black (or Latino), we would still have to make that case.


[ Parent ]
Thanks for this. (0.00 / 0)
Well done and a good place to start.  

plan or no plan (4.00 / 2)
I have little faith in this administration to be anything but a right-leaning "third way" administration.

it seems there was a time the democratic party had the advantage to shift the narrative in this country away from the tired, disproven, slogans of small govt and less taxes that feed the corporations and the wealthiest among us. But they willfully let it pass by in order to serve the same masters as the GOP. Even to this day Obama shields the banks and the elite, as well as the last adaministration, showing that their is a justice system for people, and one for the uber-wealthy.  

Heck, this administration itself is expanding wars, eroding civil liberties, and being the champion of many GOP causes.

I applaud your desire for a plan, if it is not a thinly veiled slap against progressives, but the long and the short of it, for me, is sometimes action is warranted, even when you don't know to what end.  


Clarification (0.00 / 0)
sometimes action is warranted, even when you don't know to what end.

This is certainly true.  And sometimes spontaneous, unplannable action is even the most productive.

But it's also true that counter-productive action is never warranted. And this is precisely the sticking point I'm most concerned with.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
respectfully (4.00 / 5)
as far as counter-productive action, I'd say basing your actions on what t-shirt you feel comfortable wearing in your neighborhood strikes me as counter-productive

especially considering your post figures the population and the various races of your precent, but what percentage of those people actually vote, or know the issues? I don't see that as a good measure, at all.

while, not voting for an administration that has proven they do not share my values, they ridicule my values even, and works against my causes, class, etc. --for me, atleast, this is not counter-productive action.

You want to effect change, or help a liberal movement, talk to the people in your precinct and neighborhood about the issues, and do not make assumptions about them based on their race. Approach them as humans and citizens and not as demographics (not that you do this).

Engage people beyond the sports, my team vs your team mentatlity. Wear a t-shirt that says:

People and Policy Before Party!

or

People before Corporations!

or

Jobs Before Bailouts!


[ Parent ]
I disagree. (4.00 / 1)
Politics is "Red Rover" writ large. You win by getting the most people on your side. The tee shirt test is a good one because a message that alienates your potential audience from the get-go means they will never listen to anything else you have to say, no matter how true it may be.

Of course my tee shirt test is the polar opposite of Paul's, because I live in the South. I could wear a "Dump Obama" shirt and be applauded for it, but not by the right people or for the right reasons.

The question of what kind of tee shirt slogan could draw in both Paul's neighbors and mine is, to say the least, an intriguing one.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
But that leaves a lot of questions (0.00 / 0)
The extreme of what you advance is the marketing/focus group method, where a politician looks at the polls and campaigns accordingly.  So if a majority in New York City don't want a mosque near Ground Zero, campaign against the mosque.  And if a majority want to invade Iraq, then support the war.

Did it come to pass that a majority wanted the U.S. out of Iraq?  (which we aren't)  Yes.  Because a principled minority stuck to their guns and -- as events transpired -- won people over to that position.

The issue is leadership.  Now, you may disagree with where I would lead and that is legitimate.  But popularity doesn't work as a long-term political principle.


[ Parent ]
I'm not talking about (4.00 / 5)
the "marketing/focus group method," I'm talking about telling the truth. Those are two very different things.

But you have to speak to people in their own language. "Dump Obama" says to Paul's neighbors "Fuck you." To my neighbors it says "I'm a teabagger too!"

Neither of these is an effective organizing message for a progressive movement.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
You abandon Red Rover? (0.00 / 0)
Suppose the truth is a minority position?

As for people's own language, talk jobs, talk homelessness, that's why Obama has got to go, he's bailing out the bankers -- not you.

But let's face it, it's not the language that offends you, it's the substance.

Reminds me of the days of the anti-war movement (Vietnam war, that is).  It was denounced by Black politicians as just a white college-boy thing.

And the women's movement.  Just a white middle-class thing.  No interest in the women's movement expanding its base, rather let's not emasculate Black men's right to beat the shit out of Black women.

And gay movement.  Just a white thing.  And leave us the right to murder Black gays in peace.

There are always those willing to play that card, and they have to be called on it, just as Black politicians will cover Obama to cover their own asses.


[ Parent ]
Are you deliberately misunderstanding? (4.00 / 1)
I don't know if you ever played Red Rover but the key is that you don't let go. You hold strong to your own side, your own beliefs, and the other team is absorbed into yours.

And you're still not explaining why anyone sticks around to hear "jobs and homelessness" after you just told them "fuck you."

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Of course I played Red Rover (4.00 / 1)
What works in Red Rover may not work in a capitalist system in crisis, with gaping and intensifying class divisions.

As for your second point, I guess the thing to do is open up with jobs and homelessness, and what has Obama done about that?

I generally don't go up to people in the street and say fuck you.  That's how I've managed to get so old.


[ Parent ]
I don't understand this conversation at all - (4.00 / 1)
and - Hey - last year I was at a wedding in Long Beach and there wasn't a race missing in the racial-ethnic mix - and I bet nobody would have understood this conversation either - All of us were voting for Obama -(if you are 'mixed' it's the natural thing to do) - and all of us will vote again for Democrats because only idiots don't vote - or vote for this other party we don't like - and It's as easy as that - And if there once will be a third Party (on the left) we might reconsider  - but until then - 'Dump Democrats or Obama'?? - What for? For some nebelous strategy which brings us a "better progressive" candidate? - HaHa!
(we are talking about America - Right? - and so y'all FIRST go out there and march with us for 'sanity' and y'all start thinking about if somebody like Jon Stewart perhaps does more for the progressive cause than all of these 'machinists of politics' who are on this insane underpants gnomes trip!  

There's your bumper-sticker (0.00 / 0)
Vote for Democrats because only idiots don't vote


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
and about the 'slogans' - (0.00 / 0)
all the pretty gals and gals wear: "Date a Progressive"
All the ugly gals and guys wear: 'I'm a Republican"
(I know it's evil - but that's the purpose!)

[ Parent ]
I wear - (4.00 / 1)
"Speak slowly I'm blond"!

[ Parent ]
Wow… (0.00 / 0)
...I'm surprised it took this long for someone to register a "What the...?" Why so arcane? Much as I hate to say it, for a month or so now it feels like this blog has seriously lost direction. Eyes back on the ball, please? We've got an election to win, and beyond that a fiscal/unemployment crisis to overturn and a president to whip into shape.

That's all I got...

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams


[ Parent ]
Used to be ... (4.00 / 1)
the Democratic Party zigged a bit left before an election to warm up the base.  This time around, we're getting the White House appealing the DADT ruling, no promise to end tax cuts for the rich, an approaching catfood commission, and blaming the left for the coming debacle.  The battle cry seems to be, "let's unite to keep Obama from being impeached!"

How inspiring!

Instead of liberals whipping Obama into shape, seems more like he's whipping us.


[ Parent ]
"Don't let lunatics take over!" (0.00 / 0)
That's not a t-shirt slogan, but it seems to me that it could be the leftist's current battle cry. And near as I can tell, the Dem candidates who are in dead heats haven't overwhelmingly turned "third way" and let the GOP/Tea Party crazies take them off their game. We'll deal with the administration on Nov. 3, because if we still have any leverage, the President is going to spend 2011 proving to us that we shouldn't make him walk the plank. That's where I'm at...

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

[ Parent ]
Interesting point you make ... (4.00 / 2)
the President is going to spend 2011 proving to us that we shouldn't make him walk the plank

The ONLY reason he would do what you suggest is because there is indeed a threat that WE WILL make him walk the plank.  And if he turns left and creates a serious WPA jobs program and shuts down Guantanamo, and renounces the expanded presidential powers he's been grabbing and ends DADT, and fires the catfood commission, and ends tax breaks for the rich, then Dump Obama dries up and I won't mourn it for a second.

But based on his first two years, I have no reason to believe that he will do that.  If you prove me wrong, I will rejoice.  But for now, I'll keep nailing down that plank.


[ Parent ]
All of those? (0.00 / 0)
Geez, in the current climate, I'd settle for a genuine win on one or two. I said here some time ago that the sliver of daylight between Obama and the Bush he replaced is that Obama hasn't gotten anything unequivocally right while Bush got everything wrong, which is to say that if we'd gotten the same too-small stimulus but also some green jobs, say, movement on DADT and a public option, I'd probably feel better right now. (The combination of issues could differ, but I think you know what I mean.) But if liberals clearly help the Administration out of these midterms (which is the only way the crazies don't take over) and he stays wedded to this course, well, let's just say that other strategies should already be in the works.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

[ Parent ]
Consider what IS within his powers (4.00 / 1)
He could end DADT, propose (if not pass) a serious jobs program, fire HIS catfood commission, veto any extension of Bush's tax breaks for the rich, and renounce his extra-constitutional power grab.

Without a single Republican (or Democratic) vote.

As for these mid-terms, I believe the die is cast.


[ Parent ]
Point taken… (0.00 / 0)
...but for some reason, I still hold a tiny bit of faith in the electorate. We'll know soon enough.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

[ Parent ]
still not voting for him (4.00 / 2)
I'll write in "Gus Hall" or vote Green, or stay home before voting for Obama.  The Ds will just continue their rightward trajectory regardless.

I'll encourage everyone I know to do likewise.

I remain unconvinced that Obama will even run for re-election, however.


On Lux's latest ... (0.00 / 0)
"The coming battle," they are calling for "pitchforks and torches," and "tumbrels and guillotines"!  Indeed, I have become the lesser evil, oh the humanity!

The War on Drugs (0.00 / 0)
The War on Drugs is an excellent issue to go after Obama on. Holder's recent announcement that enforcement of the Controlled Substances Act against marijuana, regardless of what happens with CA's Prop 19, plus the continued criminalization of a number of other substances that have significantly less-harmful effects than substances currently on the market means that the drug cartels will still be in business. Thus I propose that we should run a candidate who will campaign in favor of decriminalizing some (can't go for all yet, that'll come) drugs, eliminating the cartels' lock on the major production facilities and distribution channels and thereby weakening them. This will have the added effect of making the border a lot safer, meaning that we won't need federal troops violating the Posse Comitatus Act. It will also decrease the incarceration rate, which goes to project vote's latest post.

As for a bumper sticker: "Marijuana never killed anyone."

For a T-shirt, I would say a picture of the Grim Reaper holding a jug marked "X X X" and asking, "Fancy a Drink?" And on the back the death toll from (and perhaps cost of treating dependency on) alcohol, tobacco, and illegal drugs.


48/52 (4.00 / 3)
I see the voter breakdown by race and ethnicity, and I see that you assume that those are defining characteristics in determining support or the lack thereof for Obama.

But why not break down that same voter group by gender.  Wouldn't it be about 48% men/52% women?  

Is it possible to be an African-American woman and feel that Obama has been bad for women?  Is it possible to be a Latina and think the same thing?  In my neighborhood it is.

At some point the Left, or whatever constitues the Left these days, has to stand up and make clear that the regressive policies Obama is enacting ARE NOT left, they're not even liberalism.

How do you do that and also say:  but we're supporting him anyway?  

Here's the thing about supporting Green party or other third party candidates:  they don't have to win.  They just have to be visible and audible in order to expand the conversation.

Right now, third party candidates can't participate in election debates until and unless they command 5% of the popular vote.  We should be working toward getting them that 5%.  

How can you pull the Democratic party to the left if the only gravitational force is on the right?


To that I would add ... (0.00 / 0)
... that a left primary challenger wouldn't have to win to make an impact, either.  Nor would a primary challenge preclude running 3rd party or independent in the generals.

[ Parent ]




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