Obama's time-warp

by: Paul Rosenberg

Thu Dec 09, 2010 at 09:00


I've talked about this before, but evidently not nearly enough.  Two major points:

(1) Obama is a raging ideologue.  He is not a pragmatist.  "Pragmatism" is his ideological rhetoric, nothing more.  It's progressives who are the real pragmatists today.  Not all of them, and not all of the time, but it's pragmatism to note that the war on terrorism is a miserable failure, and we need to try something else.  It's also pragmatism to note that (a) law & order responses to terrorism generally work a whole lot better than military responses and (b) soft power--including efforts at dialogue, understanding, humanitarian aid and the like--works a whole hell of a lot better than blowing people to bits.  It's fact-hating ideology to oppose such measures.

Likewise, it's pragmatism to use cheap money (damn near free) to invest today in putting people back to work building the green tech and human infrastructure of tomorrow as a way to get out of the recession.    It's fact-hating ideology to reject this as "discredited Keynesianism". And it's scientifically-based pragmatism to get atmospheric CO2 down below 350ppm as soon as possible.  It's fact-hating ideology to reject this as "politically naive" or "extreme" or whatever, as if physics and chemistry give a damn about hominid politics.

Starting to see a pattern here, are we?

(2) But here's something more to help fill out the picture--a bit of an explanatory backdrop, if you will. From digby yesterday, "Triangulating In The New Millenium":

The base was in a very different place in 1992. Clinton ran as a New Democrat promising to end the "braindead politics of the past," much like Obama. The idea at the time was rather technical however, at least in part --- that you can use modern market based processes to achieve liberal goals. Now certainly there was a political desire to neutralize social issues, particularly about being soft on crime and changing the "incentives" in social welfare, which sort of defined DLCism of the 90s. But essentially Clinton was saying to liberals, "I'm with you on the goals, but we need to shed the old labels and try a different way of getting there." At least that's what I think liberals heard, whether or not it was true. Regardless, throughout the Clinton years, for the most part, there was a belief in his good intentions -- and he was actually pretty clever (more clever than Obama) in sending the liberal dogwhistle and telling the folks that he was on their side. (Taylor Branch's Clinton biography says that Clinton really was a liberal who was backed into the compromises and changing his priorities, just like Obama. But who really knows?)

Liberals were a defeated force in that decade and were willing to try this new thing to see if it might work. (We were all pragmatists then.) I know that I was open to seeing how the experiment would come out, and at the time, when the economy picked up and happy days were here again, we thought it might have worked. It's very hard to argue with prosperity. (And then there was the modern conservative movement hitting congress like a gale force, which was like nothing we'd ever seen before ...)

When Bush came in and blew a hole in the hard won balanced budget by giving tax cuts to millionaires, it was finally irrefutable to even the die-hards that it had all been a fools game and that the DLC experiment was a failure. It was clear that the Republicans had become ideologically bankrupt political terrorists and the Democrats had basically done their dirty work for them.

Barack Obama, however, has never agreed with that. Indeed, Sargent is right that he primarily sells himself as a conciliator and a bipartisan deal maker who is doing the best he can in a hostile situation. But then Clinton did too. In fact, all Democrats have thought that since the 1980s. The problem for Obama is that unlike Clinton, the experiment in "pragmatic, non-ideological" politics in the age of GOP nihilism has already been tried. And it failed. (They may have had a nice party for a while, but the hangover is one for the books.) He's living in the past and liberals are trying to drag him into the present.

"He's living in the past and liberals are trying to drag him into the present."  The exact reverse of Obama's standard Versailles-approved shtick.  Turns out that he's the one wedded to the failed policies of the past.

The point here is simple: Once upon a time it was at least plausible to argue that liberals were wedded to outmoded ideas and ways of viewing things (and in some ways, I'm sure they were--though much more in terms of strategy than anything else, I'd argue.)  They needed to try new ideas.  And so we did.  And what did we get for our troubles?  We lost the House after holding it for 40 years--and lost it for more than one term for the first time since 1932.  We got a president impeached as the result of the 5-year witch-hunt.  We got a presidential election stolen in plain sight by the Supreme Court, while Versailles applauded. We got a balanced budget which the GOP immediately plundered to plough enormous wealth into their their rich and super-rich base.  In short, we got an epic political and policy failure.  That's what digby is reminding us of.

So, after all that, one can no longer adopt the Clintonian policy position on the grounds of pragmatism.  Although it had some limited successes, that position overall has proven itself to be a spectacular failure.  Ergo, those who continue pushing it are doing so as a matter of ideology (or pure corruption, take your pick). Now, because of past history, they may adopt a rhetoric of "pragmatism" and even profess an ideology of "pragmatism" ("We're doing this to solve America's problems.")  But the clear reality is that there's nothing whatsoever actually pragmatic about what they're doing.  They're either shallow, clueless, unreflective ideologues, or else they're simply shills.

Paul Rosenberg :: Obama's time-warp

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Obama's time-warp | 52 comments
Mhmm.... (0.00 / 0)
Clinton didn't fail.  Indeed, the country turned to the Democrats and Obama in particular because they trusted Democrats to deliver a more equitable, responsible economy BECAUSE OF CLINTON'S RECORD.  That didn't happen because Obama refused to embrace Clinton's legacy and actually validated the Republican argument, particularly with his new tax plan but also with his tax heavy, inadequate stimulus, that markets are the solution and government is the problem.  I frankly think Obama supporters are just looking to yet again set Bill Clinton as the scapegoat for Obama's short comings.  Obama's issue is not as Obama dead-enders like Sargeant suggest, that he's the only adult in the room.  His problem is it's all politics and no policy at the WH.  They don't seem to understand good policy is good politics, and even on the politics, they are getting it terribly wrong. Obama doesn't know how to draw a line in the sand, as Bill Clinton certainly did on taxes, which makes him appear as he is, weak and ineffectual. In truth, Bill Clinton was the right President at the right time, which was an era of ascension of Reagan conservatism.  Obama got in at a time that would have permitted much more liberal policy making and certainly a restoration of  Clinton-era taxes.  He just isn't the right President for the times we are in.

Except for NAFTA, WTO, (4.00 / 6)
deregulating the banks, media consolidation, welfare queens..... It just took 20 years for his boondoggle to become self-evident.  

[ Parent ]
NAFTA was supported by such rightwingers (4.00 / 2)
as Robert Reich and Paul Krugman.  I'm not arguing all of Bill Clinton's policies were super, but his tax policy certainly put us in the right direction, and Obama can not even hang tough on that.  Further, whether or not you hate certain Bill Clinton policies, the public perception of his policies certainly helped Democrats make the case that they were the Party of fiscal responsibility and economic fairness.  It was the central plank Democrats ran on in 2008.  

[ Parent ]
But what else is part of the Democratic Party 'brand' that would lead voters to assume that (4.00 / 4)
they should be entrusted with power circa 2008?

The ability to handle an economic depression using Keynesiain economics.

The fact that Obama goes out of way to discredit and mischarcterize FDR's accomplishments are very telling to me.

He is destroying that aspect of the 'brand' that is the Democratic Party and what it stands for.

He's cracking it's bedrock foundations.

It's a very simple way of looking at the criticism he is getting from the left~ here comes 'the narrative' that people can easily 'get' : the the left are defending the FDR brand of the Democratic Party because they sense he is actively wrecking it.


[ Parent ]
I agree with that. (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
that's all bullcrap (0.00 / 0)
you guys are re-writing the history of Bill Clinton's disapproval among liberals during that time

[ Parent ]
My comment has to do with the fact that the Democratic Party has a brand (4.00 / 5)
Bill Clinton put his 'brand' on it yes, but the more enduring 'brand' is the one which FDR put on it as I wrote above.

It is crytal clear Obama is wrecking FDR's brand of what the Democratic Party is.


[ Parent ]
What's More (4.00 / 1)
Adding onto Susan here, Clinton's approval derived in large part from appearing as a preserver and sustainer of FDR's legacy, albeit using somewhat different means.  But the downside of his repositioning has become increasingly clear under Obama.

I've described what's wrong with this approach in some detail in my early 2010 diary, "What's wrong with the third 'Third Way'"

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Agreed with the FDR part... (0.00 / 0)
But I don't see Obama operating like Bill Clinton.  More like Jimmy Carter.  Further, he didn't have to find a third way, he could easily have embraced FDR's depression era legacy and encouraged those policies because the times were/are uniquely suited to implementing those types of policies, ie the mood of the public was far more willing to experiment after the collapse of the markets.  

[ Parent ]
That's It Precisely (4.00 / 1)
The Third Third Way never had a leg to stand on.  But it appeared otherwise, just in terms of how fiercely the right attacked under Reagan and beyond.  By 2008, however, all the rightwing lies had been exposed, all its fantasies had turned to dust.  It was time for some truth again.  And instead....

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Clinton's approval... (0.00 / 0)
...derived from the (somewhat) coincidentally* booming economy from late in his first term until near the end of his second. The rise of the internet, the dot coms and the booming (bubble) in the stock market left people feeling very good.

*I know a lot of people want to give Clinton credit for the booming economy of that era, but I don't believe that to be a supportable position. Clinton benefited from the times as much as anything else, and the times (coincidentally) owe some of their success to the work of...wait for it...Al Gore. As much as people joke (incorrectly) about Gore's having claimed to invent the internet (which he did not do), Gore in fact was a driving force behind the rise of the internet, as Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf will attest.

Clinton didn't do so much to cause the boom as he did to simply stay out of its way. Unfortunately, he bought into a lot of free market (TINFM) ideology which helped lead to excess deregulation of banking, energy and finance which in turn helped pave the way for the mess we found ourselves in later and which continues to this day.  


[ Parent ]
Which Obama Further Undermined (4.00 / 2)
whether or not you hate certain Bill Clinton policies, the public perception of his policies certainly helped Democrats make the case that they were the Party of fiscal responsibility and economic fairness.  It was the central plank Democrats ran on in 2008.  

Bill Clinton played good defense.  There's no question about that.  Obama plays crappy defense.  There's no question about that, either.

But both of them are playing defense.

And that's the bottom-line problem with both.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Nah. (0.00 / 0)
There were good policies in which Clinton clearly played offense, Clinton-era tax policy, for instance.  Did he play defense?  Sure.  He allowed the government to close down to protect Medicare.  Does Obama?  Mmmm...not really, or at least not well.  Further, things don't happen in a vacuum.  Bill Clinton wasn't elected at a time when the public had soured on conservatism.  He was elected during the ascension of conservatism.  Because of the disaster of the Bush years, Obama had opportunities that Bill Clinton certainly never had, and he squandered those opportunities.  

[ Parent ]
Tactical Offense (0.00 / 0)
Strategic defense.

You should know by now that "strategic" is my default setting.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Question (4.00 / 2)
Very good analysis, Paul.  Thank you.  A question about a side-issue.  There's a lot of "progressive" radio shows on now that weren't there during the early Clinton years.  They actually influence a lot of pop liberal opinion and views.  Several of them (like Steffi Miller and Randi Rhodes) are totally "selling" Obama as the pragmatist, problem-solver, and he can do no wrong. They are in fact becoming purveyors of an "Obama ideology," which I suggest needs to be exposed more for what it is. Several others (like Thom Hartmann and Ed Schultz) are more critical.  Exactly what is going on here?  Is the "liberal camp" so fractured?  If so, we are in a lot of trouble.

yes the liberal camp is fractured (0.00 / 0)
As an unabashed liberal who works on the ground politically from time to time, I can say there is a big disconnect between the so-called liberal blogosphere and the everyday liberal not invloved in reading these websites.  If you don't believe it, look at all the polling done on the President's job approval rating.  He continues to get very high support from liberals.  Hate to use just one poll, but Gallup's recent poll about support for the tax compromise even showed 39% of liberals supporting his compromise.  There is no groundswell of non-support by liberals for the President, but boy by reading this site and a few others, you would think he has lost all his progressive support.  Many of us understand the constraints of his Presidency, even if we don't like the outcomes of everything he does.

[ Parent ]
What spin! (4.00 / 3)
The poll you refer to does not ask whether the public still supports tax cuts for the top 1%

Those polled were given an either or choice different from the question the previous week.

Apples and oranges,

Apples and oramges.


[ Parent ]
wrong (0.00 / 0)
the poll asks the question of the day about two parts of the compromise...the questions from the prior week are moot as it pertains to what is supported in the compromise...I don't like the tax cuts for the rich, but I approve of the compromise

[ Parent ]
As someone said, why I do believe it was the President, (4.00 / 3)
he  has read the polls too.

And he basically admitted, as with the popular public option - they don't matter.

What the American people overwhelmingly supports does not register with him.

Spin away; he even does it regarding the establishment of Social Security which he got wrong.....spin spin spin.

He just doesn't want to read any more polls that ask that simple question: Do you support tax cuts for those making over $250,000 a year?


[ Parent ]
Some Radio Talkshow Hosts Are Really Smart (4.00 / 1)
Others, not so much.

That's the first thing.

Second is simply that liberalism has always been a pluralistic philosophy.  It's the opposite of authoritarian/conformist conservatism.  If all the players are relatively smart, then the diversity works toward a greater good.  A heterodox mix of approaches works better than any possible orthodoxy in the long run.  This is what a Kegan Level 5 perspective reveals as obvious.  But, if all the players aren't so smart, then not so much.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
and I assume you have defined who is smart and who is not (0.00 / 1)
liberal smugness again

[ Parent ]
Rahm is here (4.00 / 1)
Hey, Rahm -

You give yourself away when you bash liberals and labor!


[ Parent ]
Do you really think that your approach is much different? (4.00 / 3)
You simply reject standards because you are too smug to even consider applying them to yourself.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Well, perhaps Obama's triangulating (4.00 / 6)
neoliberalism can be seen as less pragmatic because it's already been tried, but I bet you Obama and team have been pursuing it precisely because they think it worked -- worked to get Clinton another term, that is.

In any case, I'm not willing to give Clinton retrospective benefit of the doubt. He gave the game away. Maybe Digby was unwilling to argue "against prosperity" and happily gave Clinton a chance "to experiment," but the I'm struck by just how similar Obama and Clinton are and by how similar the agitation on the left is. I remember it well. He began to lose me with NAFTA and never won me back. He's what led me to drift away from the Democratic party.

What's more, just how relentlessly neoliberal and pro-Wall Street and pro-corporate does Obama have to be before people like Greg Sargent and Jon Cohn understand that he doesn't share "progressive principles?" How many time does he have to say he wants to move past the tired old debates between right and left before they admit he's a triangulator? How many times does he have to embrace conservative frames before they get that he's not on our side at heart?  


Our Challenge (4.00 / 5)
Although I see greater differences between Clinton & Obama than you do, David, I'm closer to you than Digby.  Way back in January 1992 or so, I asked Harold Meyerson what he thought about the Dem primary leaders being a couple of Rockefeller Republicans.  "Oh, Clinton's a Rockefeller Democrat!" He shot back.  I was not convinced then, and never was. Still I think there's some real truth in what Digby's saying (after all Rockefeller Republicans really were liberal Republicans, not just "moderates") and I focused on that truth for a reason: taken the broadest reasonable framework of pragamatism, one could grant Clinton a shot--and the fact that the DLC criticized him at the time shows that he was not their lockstep zombie.  But by now, the results are in, and that's simply no longer the case.

Now, when you ask:

What's more, just how relentlessly neoliberal and pro-Wall Street and pro-corporate does Obama have to be before people like Greg Sargent and Jon Cohn understand that he doesn't share "progressive principles?"

what we have to do, actually, is re-articulate those principles in a way that makes this much more clear than it presently is.  That's a tall order, but it's what we need to do.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The word "pragmatism," without attachment to "interests," is pretty meaningless in politics. (0.00 / 0)
Is Obama a "pragmatist"? Sure, as long as we're talking about the interests of the CEO-Class. The National Interest? Hell no, he isn't.

This is one of the things that really irks me about our national discourse. People throw around words like "pragmatism" as if it actually means something all on it's own. But in politics, no word means much of anything until one puts in the context of interests. Anyone can claim to be "honest," as long as they're standing next to Tommy Flanagan!

Clinton was also very "pragmatic," in a way the Bradley and Olin Foundations certainly did appreciate, since they gave the DLC and Third Way so much money. He was very fortunate to have gotten out of office before his particular brand of pragmatism showed it's true nature. NAFTA, MFN status for China, Telecom Act of '96, Gramm-Leach-Bliley and Welfare Deform have all done horrific damage to the Nation. But that didn't become apparent for most until recently. Well, for most people, anyway. Some of us saw it coming.

Still, for certain interests, all that was very pragmatic. For the rest of us, it ought to have been viewed as some form of treason, since they sold the country down the river for a bunch of money and that's it.


"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences..." - Winston Churchill, November 1936


[ Parent ]
oh please, a lot of over analysis... (0.00 / 0)
Do you really believe the Republicans would allow ANY Democratic President to make more liberal policy?  Very naive, I must say.  After all this over-analysis, it is a very simple thing:

Anybody with any common sense that knows how things are run politically knows that the Republicans control exactly how far the President can go...its called the Senate filibuster.  The Democrats also have that at their disposal, if they have the guts to use it when there is a Republican President and they have the numbers.  Until this is done away with, or until, if ever, Democrats have a majority in the Senate of at least 60 members that does not include so-called conservative/moderate Democrats willing to work with Republicans to undermine a Democratic President, things will remain the same.  The filibuster hostage takers will always have the upper hand.  

The Republicans were smart...they have loaded the media airwaves with town halls and street corners full of angry white people who "won't take it anymore".  Thus, the overall impression that they are the majority, regardless of what polls say.  Most folks who watch tv or listen to the news see the "loud folks", not the polls.  I saw very little public displays of outrage or marching in the streets to support what the President originally wanted in health care.  Its almost like once he was elected President, everyone thought he and he alone could carry the weight of every progressive issue against a Republican minority intent on using every tactical issue at their disposal to thwart him.  

On those rare occasions that liberal/progressives take to the streets over anything with vigor, the visuals are usually a bunch of young folks looking like hippies (of which I was one) carrying signs to legalize marijuana or something, and the Republicans and the media make them into the "fringe". As a participant in the GLBT national marches in Washinton in the 80's I haven't seen anything close to that energy level for progressive issues since then.  Until Democrats use the same loud tactics that include enough "angry normal-looking people" according to distorted media standards, to satisfy the media and conservatives that there truly is an uprising, it won't work.  Where are all the unemployed wanting their unemployment insurance?  Why aren't they out in the streets, or at the very least, putting themelves in the news, about losing their unemployment?  There are millions of them, and being unemployed means they have the time to take to the streets demanding what is right and fair!

Sitting behind laptops spewing disgust with our own Democratic President who has his hands tied not only by his own party at times, but by the workings of the Congress, resolves NOTHING. From the very beginning the President has said change would not be easy AND he needed the continuing level of energy we saw through his campaign to continue from day one of his Presidency.  That didn't happen and he has been left to resolve intra-party battles and egos, and a Republican minority intent on thwarting everything he has tried to accomplish.  


Shorter version of your post: We aren't clapping loudly enough (4.00 / 7)
That is not our job as citizens.

The number one job I have as a citizen is holding those elected accountable: first to the oath of office next to their campaign promises.


[ Parent ]
no, you are wrong (0.00 / 0)
You don't have to clap...get out from behind your laptop, hit the streets and boo and scream if you hate it so bad...that's what the other side does

[ Parent ]
Where you around when millions hit the streets in the run up to the Iraq War? (4.00 / 5)
It doesn't get reported the same way as a few thousand tea partiers showing up.

Change comes at the local democratic party level with resolutions being offered and then press releases being issued that clearly state they do not support Barack Obama's capitulation.

Change comes by electing those who are willing to go to Congress and say 'talk to the hand Barack and Joe, I am not voting to crack the foundation of Social Security.'

Change comes when people stop giving money.

Change comes when someone steps up and says" I am willing to primary Barack Obama'

FYI, I live in MA and I am intimately acquainted with going door to door on behalf of candidates in NH - I know Manchester, Nashua and Portsmouth NH neighborhoods better than I know neighborhoods in Quincy MA.


[ Parent ]
I assume you are in "the streets" even as you post (4.00 / 1)
Certainly not behind a key-board or riding a lap-top.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Please stop already with the hagiography (4.00 / 8)
and the assumptions. Hardly any of us are sitting behind laptops any longer during the day than you are. We just think that a) the Democratic Party is broken, b) that President Obama -- as evidenced both by his staffing and rhetorical choices -- has no idea what's wrong, and c) that his so-called leadership is more an impediment than an aid in extricating ourselves from the mess that misguided politicians of both parties, President Obama included, have gotten us into.

He isn't our main focus, he's merely an exemplar, and not the most instructive one at that. Behaving like a courtier won't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, nor is it likely to convince anyone actually privy to the workings of the Democratic Party, which many of us, to our everlasting frustration, have been and are today.

I'm a Democratic Party state committee representative, and I approved this message. There are a lot more of us. WIth any luck, your polls will eventually reflect the work we're determined to do.


[ Parent ]
I have been active in the Virginia and North Carolina Democratic Party (0.00 / 0)
as a rep, and currently in Florida, and I also approve of my message.  Its ok to not have group think, and I haven't seen anywhere where my ideas are not just as good or acceptable as yours.

[ Parent ]
Did the tent just get bigger? (4.00 / 3)
You haven't seen anywhere. I'd argue that you aren't looking, although I admit that some things are harder to perceive from the heart of Virginia or North Carolina than they are from, say, New York or California.) In any case, it looks as though we're destined to be adversaries. From my perspective, the more the merrier. That's what politics is all about, after all.

[ Parent ]
I'm kind of - (0.00 / 0)
with you -(or perhaps - not?) ---
Because who cares If you call Obama a pragmatist or an ideologue -
Isn't the major question - and it seems to be - the only one left: does he fight enough for certain policies? I mean every single democracy on this planet has the problem that there are conflicting policies and then the ruler(s) sit down together and thrash out a compromise. But in the US - because of the unusual power of the President -(on paper) - everybody expects him to play the decisive role. In other democracies the compromises of the ruler(s) nearly always reflect the actual balance of power. Only in the US -('American exceptionalism'?) - these compromises used to show unusual personal 'signatures' of exceptional 'powerful' (or tricky) dudes ("Presidents")
But now -(it seems to be) - we don't have an exceptional 'powerful' (or tricky) President - Just this average reasonable and intelligent dude, who doesn't understand why all the people he is dealing with - are not as reasonable and intelligent as he is -(I actually doesn't understand that either) - So the only two resolution I see: Y'all either have to make sure that in the future he only will deal with reasonable and intelligent people! (You know how to do that - If every reasonable and intelligent progressive 'adopts' around 15 people - we for sure will get the majority) - And the other resolution I see -(and wouldn't prefer) - Y'all vote the next time for the meaniest and trickiest s... of b... you can find! - (but please - no complains afterwards!)      

[ Parent ]
Oh - and I'm also still waiting - (0.00 / 0)
for the 15 Million 'people' who will co sign with us this Kos-paper - You know the one - who will for sure then put a stop to this idiocy loading American millionaires and billionaires with extra dough!  

[ Parent ]
most voters don't know or care about the difference (0.00 / 0)
and you are right, we have a highly undereducated and possibly unreasonable voting population when it comes to understanding issues.  Many vote against their own best interest, and often.  But, still, they do vote and to continually treat them as stupid or call them low information voters seems very derogatory to me.  My family is full of that, so I put a lot of time and energy in making sure they are better informed and give them lots of information other than sound bites.

I remember during the campaign how so many folks said it was so nice to have a Presidential candidate who was intelligent and could speak intelligently.  I don't think that intelligence has disappeared...I think there are certain realities to being President that no one anticipates until they are in that office.  I have seen the President criss-cross this country defending and promoting his positions and defending and supporting Democratic candidates.  Some things I support and some I don't.  I just think it is highly unfair to say he does not fight enough...and exactly who has assigned the "fight scale"?  I want to know what the objective fight parameters are before I say he doesn't fight enough.


[ Parent ]
I think the perception of him in DC (0.00 / 0)
is that he rolls over.  He said the other day that he drew "many lines in the sand".  That's his problem.  He doesn't stick to the line in the sand.

[ Parent ]
I have no problem - (0.00 / 0)
with 'undereducated'  or 'low information' voters either. I just have a problem with 'unreasonable' idiots and have found out - that often they are pretty educated and FULL of information!

[ Parent ]
Off topic, but perhaps relevant (4.00 / 2)
Brad DeLong has responded to your criticism from the other day.

As far as I can tell, he seems stuck on the point that there's no rational reason that today's financiers should prefer hard money. Either he doesn't consider the irrational reasons relevant, they don't don't interest him, or he doesn't feel competent to discuss them. In any case, he seems to consider repetition of his earlier points to be an adequate refutation of yours.

I don't agree, but I'd love to read your response. Is one coming soon?


Just Posted! (4.00 / 2)
It's not a full response. Coming up with one is arguably a long-term open-ended project.  But I think I've moved the ball down the field.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Yup, that's an important articel by Digby, thx 4 coverning it! (0.00 / 0)
And I don't have anything substantial to add (did I hear a sigh of relief somewhere?. Only a secondary point: As Digby notes, one of the main differences between Obama and Clinton is that Billyboy actually likes his base. Countless cordial blogger meetings show that, among other evidence. And that resulted in Clinton being more hesitant in offending the left wing. Sure, he followed his own course, too, but he still took great care to make his voters feel good. Only a small difference, sure, but it still prevented Clinton from straying too far away from his party. With Obama, feeling superior to the left wing, and having a false pride in his "postpartisan" stance, there isn't such a safeguard. He would coldheartedly leave Progressives in the cold while he follows his own course!

Ja - the Clintontype - that's also an option - (0.00 / 0)
a womanizing Arkansas lawyer - who could moonlight as an excellent used car salesman - AND who plays the 'sax' - pretty good - and who is far more sexy - in a sleazy kind of way -(and every word is meant as a compliment because sometimes I'm BAD - I'm BAD!!)

[ Parent ]
"sometimes I'm BAD - I'm BAD!" (0.00 / 0)
Aw, come on, stop teasing us, Tortenstück!
:D

[ Parent ]
I'm getting tired of Paul's Posts (4.00 / 1)
Good analysis, lots of thinking, no actions, no solutions, combative nature with anyone who disagrees.  Here's what we can do, pick one:

1) Primary Obama from the left.  This could very well throw the 2012 election to the Republicans, but is 4 more years of Obama really that different?

2) We can leave our keyboards and hit the streets in protest.  Long, protracted, we'll be beat by police ans scorned by the media but eventually it works.

There are NO other effective solutions.  Citizens United puts time and elections against us (the people), every election period cements their hold over the govt a little more with floods of cash.  Every economic crisis / bank crisis will be used as a club for more austerity, see what's happening in Europe now.  Americans have demonstrated they are way too stupid to grasp basic economics, this method is still just as valid as it was the last 15 times they used it.  

Blogging is just not enough, no 18th dimensional chess plan built in the air is going to do squat.  Pick one: primary or extended protests.  Failure to choose and get behind one or the other is a conscious choice to do nothing.  Blogging is literally next to nothing (if you actually have any real impact, you'd get wikileaked in a heartbeat.)


Other options. (0.00 / 0)
First off, who ever said that blogging is enough?  Certainly not me. But without it, we'd be hard pressed to do the other stuff as well.

So, here's my first other option: create new counter-hegemonic infrastructure. Particularly infrastructure that supports long-term organizing that can stand up to the party hierarchy.

One purpose of this option is to support another option:  targetted mobilization.  Less "March on Washington". More 10,000 flash mobs.  We should be building infrastructure that can support that sort of thing.

There are other options as well.  But here at OL, we already have a long history of activism as well pontificating.  Informing people about things they can do is part of what we've always done.  And we're hardly alone in that.  It's always been part of the blogosphere's multi-functionality.

Also, water is wet.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I like the flash mob idea (4.00 / 1)
These are the things that get attention, loud and numbers

[ Parent ]
OK, when is the protest over taxes? (0.00 / 0)
I would like to join up.  When is it happening?

[ Parent ]
Really? (4.00 / 1)
"So, here's my first other option: create new counter-hegemonic infrastructure. Particularly infrastructure that supports long-term organizing that can stand up to the party hierarchy." -P.R.

Something like Wikileaks?  News flash, they shut that business down faster than goose poop through a tin horn.  As soon as any such organization becomes even remotely successful, it'll be smashed to pieces by the money gangs.  Who will fund the counter-hegemonic infrastructure organizations against frivilous and unlimited legal attacks?  How many decades will it take to get off the ground in the first place?  

It's a great idea and a long term plan, it really isn't a solution for now, today.  It's something to build in the background as you pursue other, closer goals.  What closer goals do you see as feasible other than the two I outlined?


[ Parent ]
thank you (0.00 / 0)
I completely agree...except I still think there is a big difference between Obama and any of the current crop of Republican candidates.  Please name for me one Republican candidate you think would not be worse than Obama...I'm open to hearing that and understanding why.

[ Parent ]
Mitt Romney is virtually the same guy (4.00 / 3)
hell, Obama passed his healthcare plan

[ Parent ]
now - to mix up - (0.00 / 0)
Mitt Romney with Obama you really have to be a disaster!

[ Parent ]
Obama's time-warp | 52 comments




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