Obama: Reagan Shrank Government After Democrats Got Lazy

by: Matt Stoller

Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 16:33


Ben Smith reports that Obama is talking up Reagan again (h/t David Mizner in Quick Hits).

"What happened was Democrats had gotten complacent, had gotten fat and happy. they thought there was a government program to solve every problem. Ronald Reagan came in and said we need to break out of the old ways of doing things and create a leaner, more effective government," he said. "That was the right message then. I think that right now we went too far in the wrong direction. We can't go back to the old liberalism of the past, but [when] you are on your own economic philosophy [of] Bush and McCain doesn't work either. Let's try a new way where we apply common sense, have government do what it does well."

Let's look at the data.  Did Reagan shrink government?  Well, as economist Angry Bear notes, he did not.  He actually increased the size of government by .2% Federal executive employees per thousand population, versus 1.17% shrinkage under Jimmy Carter and 2.80 shrinkage under Bill Clinton, both of which outpaced George W's -1.09%.  In fact, the last Presidency to increase the government's size is JFK/LBJ, who under their (combined) eight year term increased government size by 2.02% a year.  Even George HW Bush shrank government more than Reagan did.  So why is Reagan considered a true fiscal conservative?  My theory is that what he did that Clinton and Bush I did not do is reward Republican interest groups.  And the data bears this out.

Matt Stoller :: Obama: Reagan Shrank Government After Democrats Got Lazy
While he didn't reduce the size of government, what Reagan did do was transfer spending from discretionary social spending to both the military-industrial complex and interest payments on government debt.  This was good for four Republican interest groups - corporate defense contractors, the military officer corps, Wall Street tycoons, and the Saudis.  It also had the effect of sloshing huge amounts of money into our culture such that an entire new culture of superrich were formed.  In 1982, Forbes came out with its first list of the top 400 wealthiest people in America, and the wealthiest guy had a net worth of around $2 billion.  Today, that's about what you need to get onto the Forbes 400.

These new superrich are Democrats and Republicans, because Clinton was as good for them as Reagan or George W.  But conservatives still believe that Reagan is a far superior President than either Bush I or Clinton or Carter?  Why?

As you can see, Clinton and Bush I slashed the military.  People whose jobs and wealth depend on the military didn't like that.  Ergo, Clinton and Bush I weren't conservative even though they shrank government, and Reagan was, even though he didn't.  Bush II increased military spending, so before his administration turned into an obvious catastrophe, he was venerated as another version of Reagan, a conservative dream.

I'm not sure why this matters.  It's a total misreading of Carter's legacy, who was basically a conservative Democrat operating along very similar lines to Obama (with huge majorities entering after a disgraced Republican President).  Perhaps the worry is that the conventional wisdom about how to govern is being set by Republican interest groups, and Obama is following his lead from these groups, at least rhetorically.  I don't know.  But I want our understanding of history to be clear.  Ted Kennedy ran against Carter in 1980 because he was too conservative.  Liberals just never had a chance to govern.

Anyway.  


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Trying to curry favor from false perceptions isn't necessarily a bad thing (0.00 / 0)


I wonder if that is what Obama is doing ... (0.00 / 0)
trying to play off what low info voters perceive of Ray-gun .. because I have a hard time believing that Obama would really believe the hype in regards to Ray-gun .. he's just playing off the supposed positive things that ray-gun was supposedly about

[ Parent ]
I think that is exactly what he is doing (4.00 / 2)
And to answer what Matt asked - "So why is Reagan considered a true fiscal conservative?"

Because conservatives don't consider defense "government". When they rail against "government" they mean "entitlements".  


[ Parent ]
but I think the war (0.00 / 0)
has changed that perception.  Look at Pat Buchanan and the Paleocons, so it is disappointing to see Obama in the day after 9/11 narrative.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Paleocons yes (0.00 / 0)
Neocons not so much.

[ Parent ]
I think the typical republican (0.00 / 0)
is more paleocon than neocon. I think neocons have no legs outside the beltway save for the 8 percent of the population that embraces dispensationlist christian theology.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
I think most Republicans will do whatever the party aparatus tells them (0.00 / 0)
It is in their nature to follow. And the neocons have that power right now.

[ Parent ]
Their power is waning (0.00 / 0)
or we would be bombing Iran right now.  The rank and file republican is not in touch with the party apparatus anymore than I am in touch with the Democratic one.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
The don't have to be in touch (0.00 / 0)
The just jump when they are told to jump.

[ Parent ]
"false perceptions" (4.00 / 2)
is a euphemism for dangerous lies.

What benefit Obama gains from a transparent ploy like this is minimal: how many swing votes are moved when McCain praises Hillary Clinton?

The cost is the perpetuation of lies that hurt progressivism.



[ Parent ]
Again though I don't think he is lying (0.00 / 0)
More a question of interpretation. Besides, reality is nine-tenths perception and all that.

[ Parent ]
This is the key point (0.00 / 0)
He's not convincing anybody with this.  He is just giing cover to conservatives when they try to claim that Reaganism saved America from the "excesses of the sixties and seventies."  

[ Parent ]
Why? Facts aren't good enough? (0.00 / 0)
Reagan is the root of all of this evil.   He is the one who started it, and Clinton and W are the ones who pushed it over the edge.   If there is any part of history that needs undoing, it is Reagan; and I don't appreciate Obama turning him in to something he's not.   There hasn't been a decent Republican President since Ike, and I would include Clinton in that.  

[ Parent ]
reread my comment (4.00 / 1)
I think that we agree.

[ Parent ]
well (4.00 / 1)
A more accurate headline would be "Obama: Reagan ran on shrinking government" because his quote does not say Reagan shrank government.  


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

i'll certainly give obama (0.00 / 0)
a pass on a little bs to increase the vote of the reagan dems them lovely faux liberals all.

i think something else is going on here, and it is a bit disturbing... (0.00 / 0)
we can see where mccain is driving the narrative right now: towards a referendum on Obama's economic/social policies.  he is calling obama's economics 'socialist,' and trying to cast obama as a big government, welfare distributing, liberal.  joe the plumber is an important fixture in this portrayal.  as is mccain's recent references to european social democratic parties  

i wouldn't be surprised if we started hearing more about obama's supposed ties to socialist parties in the coming week.

so, obama is trying to outmaneuver this latest mccain stunt.  reclaiming the 'spirit' of reagan is part of that effort, as is showing that his tax policy is in the interests of workers and small businesspeople.  talking about job creation is also a winner in this respect, i would imagine.  

the problem is that the terrain has shifted in a way that is not necessarily in our, or obama's, interests.  the question now is about "big government."  mccain has already established that he is going to take blunt objects to the federal budget (even if he wouldn't in actuality), and he is able to say that he won't raise anyone's taxes (which sounds good on the face of it; obama's plan to lower taxes for some, and raise them for others, may be a bit harder to grasp).  

all i can say is that i hope powell's appearance tomorrow really captures the media's attention for a few days....  


Not sure McCain gets too much traction on this (0.00 / 0)
The electorate reflexively believes that any Dem will raise their taxes and that doesn't seem to have hurt Obama so far.

[ Parent ]
Obama needs to start talking (4.00 / 2)
about how wastful the war is.    Also, why has nobody talked about the wars contribution  to the present economic crisis?

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Worth pushing back on this (0.00 / 0)
I think it is worth liberals pushing back on this.  But as I said in the quick hits:

While many, including me, will complain about the accuracy, it certainly is a good myth to sell liberalism for the next dozen years or so.  And it is a fantastic myth to get the beltway crowd on board.

It is very easy to sell the notion that both the left and right over reach and eventually the time comes for the other ideology to take over and fix the sins of previous decades.

Is this a false equivalency?  Sure.  But this is one that works to our favor, at least for now.

And as someone else pointed out, it isn't as if Reagan attacked FDR.

But if this is what it takes for moderates who worry about liberalism to embrace the ideology for the time being, I can't complain too much.  This promotes liberalism without challenging their basic beliefs.  Everyone understand a pendulum.


There's More (4.00 / 2)
A lot more, in fact.  Reagan not only slashed taxes on the rich, he was the leading figure in changing the dominant political narratives in America.  He had an enormous infrastructure behind him, of course, but that infrastructure was tightly focused on using him, and lionizing him in order to use him more effectively.

The degree of upwards wealth re-distribution that he set in motion is virtually impossible to fathom.  You do site some statistics that are helpful.  Here's some more:

What this shows is the degree to which wealth became so concentrated at the top that even the upper middle class and above suffered by comparison.  Those from the top 50% up to the top 11% suffered a particularly sharp decline, of course. But even those in the top 2-5% lost half their share compared to the top 1%.

The sharpest declines by far for one and all took place during the Reagan years.  The years since then have mostly just continued the process more gradually, with a few bumps along the way.

Underlying raw data source here.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Uh...can you read? (0.00 / 0)
I don't think you can.

Read the quote again:

"Ronald Reagan came in and said we need to break out of the old ways of doing things and create a leaner, more effective government".

In other words, Obama isn't saying that Reagan DID that. He's saying that Reagan claimed he was going to do it.

Honestly - it's a shame that it's come to this, but at this point, I absolutely EXPECT to come here and find dishonest arguments about Obama.

Read what he said. Try to leave your own biases and personal interpretations out of it for once.  


Rhetorically, the effect is the same (0.00 / 0)
The only way that it wouldn't have been would be if Obama had actually pointed out that Reagan did the opposite of what he said that he would do.  Nowhere did Obama say that.

[ Parent ]
The pundits are already telling him not to interpret his victory (0.00 / 0)
as a victory for a liberal or progressive view of governement.  The voters are just rejejcting George Bush personally, not conservatism.  Ron Brownstein....Mr. serious pundit says so...be careful... They are rejecting only the frat boy....as though the frat boy;s politics were not the very apotheosis of the right wing view of the world.

http://www.nationaljournal.com...

Reagan's commanding victory 28 years ago marked what many historians see as a hinge in American history -- a moment that was a transition between political eras. If the Democrats win a victory of comparable breadth on November 4, the obvious question will be whether 2008 marks another transition
........
And he shifted the advantage from those who would expand government's reach toward those who would limit it. The lingering power of that Reagan consensus handcuffed even Bill Clinton, the lone Democratic president elected since 1980, as the former Arkansas governor painfully discovered when public resistance to greater government involvement helped defeat his plan for universal health care.

Reagan's victory proved so influential because it represented the convergence of two distinct political failures. One was the immediate debacle of Democrat Jimmy Carter's presidency. The other was the collapse of the New Deal model of interest-group liberalism that had guided the Democratic Party since Franklin Roosevelt. The first was a failure of performance; the second, a failure of ideas. Carter's personal failure contributed more to Reagan's 1980 victory. But more significant over time was the ideological failure -- the sense, shared largely even by Carter and many younger Democrats, that traditional liberalism could no longer effectively address the country's most difficult problems.

Even if Democrats win big next month, they will face the challenge of understanding what kind of victory they have won. Large Democratic gains unquestionably would reflect a severe judgment on George W. Bush's performance as president. Although history may commend some of Bush's twilight decisions (including the financial rescue package and the "surge" in Iraq), his failures far outnumber his successes. And he is approaching Election Day with the highest disapproval rating (71 percent) the Gallup Poll has recorded for any president.

Less clear is whether a big Democratic win would represent an ideological pivot like 1980. Many Democrats believe that a breakthrough next month, coming after a financial meltdown that has discredited unfettered markets, would represent the public's repudiation not just of Bush's performance but of Reagan's small-government ideas. "It's the end of the Age of Reagan," says Wilentz, who is generally identified with liberal causes.

Conservatives are dubious. "The problem is more political than ideological. It is more with the Republican Party than the conservative movement," says Peter Wehner, a senior fellow at the conservative Ethics and Public Policy Center.

This isn't an academic dispute. Assume for a moment that Democrats are provided uniform control of the federal government in 2009: They are more likely to swing for the fences with new programs, mandates, and taxes if they believe they have achieved an ideological, and not just a partisan, victory. If Obama wins, the threshold question he'll face in devising his governing strategy will be whether his election represents a triumph over just McCain and Bush -- or the conquest of Reagan, too.

I think we all here agree that when the Republicans lose in 2008 it will also be a dual failure....a failure of performance (the Bush administration) and a failure of ideas (right wing political, social and economic ideology).  Jimmy Carter gave up on liberalism...he acceded to right wing ideas.....Let's hope that Barack Obama not only knows that winning in November is a dual failure of right wing performance and right wing ideas but also that he needs to initiate programs that fix this country by undoing the damage of almost 30 years of domination of right wing ideology.  

Barack Obama should not listen to serious people like Ron Brownstein, but to those who elected him.  

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller






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