What if the tea party was black--Part 2

by: Paul Rosenberg

Tue Jul 20, 2010 at 12:00


Sunday night, I post the following video:

It was a response to Metamars once again defending the Tea Party against charges of racism, using their own terms of debate.

There were two major modes of viewing the issue raised in the comment that were worth taking note of.  First, there was the discussion of racism in the Tea Party, typified by Filler's comment (directed :

You are the type of person
for whom no evidence of racism would ever be good enough.

Ta-Nehisi Coates has spent the past few days talking about racism in the Tea Party and those, like Metamars, who enable it, if anyone's interested.

And Metamars' inadvertantly highly illuminating response (more on it below).

Second was the view of the Tea Party as an example of American white supremacy, which was typified by Oaktown Girl's comment:

Just like 1776

Here's a good Tim Wise link unpacking the take our country back rallying cry. Hard to get a louder dog whistle than that:

How fascinating. That it is factually impossible to separate out the "racism part" from the rest of it is something many white folks seem not to understand. They seem to think there was once a time of innocence when oppression wasn't happening, or that we can easily extract from our accounting of those crimes the great and noble things about our forefathers and view them in some patriotic vacuum.  

And here's another good one he did: Imagine If the Tea Party Was Black:

Protest is only seen as fundamentally American when those who have long had the luxury of seeing themselves as prototypically American engage in it. When the dangerous and dark "other" does so, however, it isn't viewed as normal or natural, let alone patriotic.

The discussion of racism in the Tea Party took up most of the comment thread.  It represented far and away the most common perspective.  But the song/video was clearly articulated from the perspective that Oaktown Girl introduced, the perspective of the Tea Party as an example of American white supremacy.

There are, as I see it, two fault-lines here worth noting:

Paul Rosenberg :: What if the tea party was black--Part 2
    (1) Is the problem racism or white supremacy?
    (2) Is the problem one of individual traits or specific acts that need to be condemned on the one hand, or is it one of social and historical context that needs to be deconstructed and dismantled?

It's my position that it's the later in both cases, even though I, too, use the term "racism" much more often than I should.  The two are tightly related, you see: The problem is white supremacy because the problem is one of social and historical context that needs to be deconstructed and dismantled.  And the video/song does an excellent job of describing this reality.

Metamars does an excellent job (inadvertantly) of showing what's wrong with the alternate view in his response to Filler:

Good enough for WHAT?

I take it as a given that there's racists in the Tea Party, just like I take it as a given that there's racists in the Democratic Party. I also take it as a given that there's racists in the US Federal Government. Does that mean I have to declare that the US Federal Government is racist, as a whole, and bring that up each and every time I talked about the US Federal Government?

This is a pretty neat trick: admit that racism is everywhere, but then argue, in effect that since it's everywhere it's nowhere, and what's the big deal?  It makes the one who notices, or speaks about racism into the odd man out.  And that move, in and of itself, is profoundly racist, profoundly white supremacist.

Metamars continues:

The NAACP, to their credit, was careful enough to criticize racist elements within the Tea Party:

Today, NAACP delegates passed a resolution to condemn extremist elements within the Tea Party, calling on Tea Party leaders to repudiate those in their ranks who use racist language in their signs and speeches.

So do tell us, Filler, if in your inestimable opinion, they should reword their resolution and instead condemn the "racist Tea Party", or something along those lines.

Anyone with a lick of historical sense would understand why the NAACP would take a relatively conservative and consolidating consensus approach in criticizing the Tea Party. It wants to consolidate a certain understanding, and change a broad political dynamic.  If it were to criticize the Tea Party as a whole, the way I do, the way Tim Wise does, the way the video/song does, then it would be taking on an impossible task for itself, because, of course, the racism/white supremacism goes far beyond the Tea Party, and unfortunately the Civil Rights vision represented by the NAACP is vastly outflanked by the mostly unconscious reach of that white supremacist worldview.

So, in short, what the NAACP did was good.  Not only that, it was the smartest move for them as the organization they are.  But that does not mean that their criticism was the be all and end all.  Indeed, throughout most of its history, the NAACP's role has been similar to this.  (It's why, for example, WEB DuBois had such a tempestuous relationship with the organization he was so strongly identified with.) The NAACP has always been necessary, and never been sufficient.  No one group could be, of course. But it's also true that its position--echoed in a variety of other groups as well--has always been necessary, and never been sufficient.  We also need the position of those who primarily, repeatedly, constantly criticize white supremacy as an all-encompassing system.

Such has been the role of intellectuals like James Baldwin, but it was also the role of Martin Luther King as well, as I was forcefully reminded this morning, hearing a clip of him being interviewed by Studs Terkle.  King spoke, as he often did, of how hate hurts the hater as much as it does the hated.  Perhaps his most pithy expression of this was when he said, "You cannot keep a man in a ditch, unless you linger there with him."  It was King's systematic understanding that ultimately forced him to speak out against the Vietnam War, and to say of those who were surprised or offended by his doing so that they never really knew him.  And it is that systematic understanding that I am very fortunate to have given to me at such a young age that I cannot ever remember a time when I did not have it.  I'm  believe my mother taught it to me as simple fairness.  But she had a far sharper eye than most for seeing what it meant, where and how it was observed, and where and how it was not.  And from that basic seed sense of fairness, all else I have learned has grown.


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Invisible, therefore irrelevant (4.00 / 4)
It's such a simple thing, this understanding, but it isn't come by simply, unless, of course, you're facing the pointy end. As I try to tell my incorrigible white neighbors here in AZ: Lots of undocumented -- or illegal, if you must -- immigrants are Irish. Will SB 1070 help catch them? No? And why not? Their eyes glaze over, and they wave at me as though they were swatting flies. Irrelevant, they say. Not a problem here, they say. And why not? I say.

Etc., etc.


Racism Is Like Water (4.00 / 1)
"We don't know who first discovered water.  We only know that it wasn't a fish."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Is there a distinction between structural racism and white supremacy? (4.00 / 5)
That's something I'd have to think through when I'm less harried by work, but I tend to think not?

At any rate, I think calling out the tea party's racism is absolutely necessary and vital, particularly because of the potential for incitement to violence that the NAACP highlighted. But I also have to ask why, as Benjamin Jealous did, the half page of his speech that addressed the tea parties was singled out at the expense of the rest of his forty two page speech, thus bolstering the narrative that racism is the domain of a small subset of rednecks rather than something systematic. And so the tea party's concerns are regularly, constantly enumerated, while the NAACP's (and, of course, other representative groups) are ignored.


Very Good Point (0.00 / 0)
And so the tea party's concerns are regularly, constantly enumerated, while the NAACP's (and, of course, other representative groups) are ignored.

That's really the heart of the matter, IMHO.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
My Own Father's a Tea-bagger! (4.00 / 6)
So I can tell you pretty conclusively exactly what's motivating these people and what they think:

1. Total denial that they're racist. Why? Because they equate racism with hatred of black people and they don't "hate."

2. At the same time, he expressed to me his sadness that "America is no longer going to be a white country." This demographic change he equates with the destruction of America -- because we're not going to have the same European cultural orientation we had in the past.

And that culture which European (White) immigrants brought to America is what made this country great.
This assumes an innate superiority for white Anglo-Saxon culture.

Thus, the "take back my country" view in a nut-shell. It simply means that "my kind of people" remain in charge and that people I can't identify with culturally are shut out.

Hence the massive fear/anger over immigration.  


[ Parent ]
This Is Sooo Perfect (4.00 / 1)
Not for you, obviously.  But it's such a perfect encaptulation of the mentality.

My highly educated father was like this, too, although in more subtle form.  In his own way, he was an almost perfect textbook case.  In 1968 both my parents supported LBJ.  In 1968, my mom voted for Dick Gregory (on the Peace & Freedom Party ticket) and my dad voted for Nixon.

They'd gotten divorced in the interim, but what got my dad pissed off was simply that he didn't get a raise that Pat Brown had promised to state college professors. It was just that petty at first. So he voted for Reagan for governor in 1966, and he pretty much stayed loyal to his resentful, small-minded side for the rest of his life.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
What's conclusive is that you exhibit muddled 'thinking' (0.00 / 0)
The priorities of the Tea Baggers are a matter of statistical fact. While not exactly the same thing as their motivations, one can infer motivations from priorities, to some extent. I suggest that you study the CBS/NYT poll. Though crappy in many ways, it was still insightful.

As for your muddled thinking, can you figure out what it is? Or do I have to tell you? I'll give you a hint: suppose that your father was a KKK'er. Or, for that matter, a member of the NAACP.

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[ Parent ]
Two things (4.00 / 1)
1) You can't just mention the existence of data to support your point. You have to at least minimally suggest how it supports your point. Everyone here is aware of that one survey, and the numerous other ones that you didn't mention.  Also, what people say in a survey is a fact, but what their priorities are must be inferred from what they say (and do) - it is not a fact.

2) Saying someone has muddled thinking is not demonstrating it. Why not give it a shot? The labeling without argument is obnoxious.

PS - layoff the scarequotes. It's childish.

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[ Parent ]
I apologize for being obnoxious (0.00 / 0)
I'm sometimes deliberately blunt, with the purpose of breaking through somebody's denial or resistance. In this case, though, it was more an expression of my foul mood.

As was hopefully clear from my hints, one can't infer the motivations of millions of people from just one.  

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[ Parent ]
Perhaps the difference is that white supremacy is supported (4.00 / 4)
by many who do not benefit from structural racism, while those who do benefit from structural racism do not need to voice white supremacy. Mark Williams, who used to be in the Tea Party, talks about "hard working folks" just as Hillary did in Pennsylvania from the primaries. Ross Douchebag's recent column in the NYT has him coming out as the voice of the white working class. What a joke.

I never found it illogical that poor whites "vote against their interests." They are voting for their interests, just as many poor males support gender supremacy. The oft-cited study by the two sociologists that places race as the stumbling block to universal healthcare because of personal identification should be taken to its logical end. The identification works upward just as it works downward. When Douchebag and Williams start talking about helping poor whites, (in Douthat's case, "poor Christian whites," they are trying to awaken this sense of white supremacy, just as Hillary did in Pennsylvania. This is the structure of the Tea Party: affluent whites reaching out to poor whites and giving nothing in return other than the promise of continued white supremacy.

My political leanings tend to focus on economic justice, civil liberties and foreign policy, but I am offended by the idea that we must cleanse ourselves of the discussion of race, sexuality and gender. It's like Sarah Palin asking NY Muslims to abandon the Manhattan mosque out of respect. If you are bothered by a mosque in Downtown Manhattan, that is your problem.


[ Parent ]
Or, As Bob Dylan Put It... (4.00 / 1)
This is the structure of the Tea Party: affluent whites reaching out to poor whites and giving nothing in return other than the promise of continued white supremacy.

...back in the day:

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid
And the marshals and cops get the same
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.



"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I dunno. Given the national unemployment level for blacks is (4.00 / 5)
17.2% and  9.2% for whites, wouldn't that tend to suggest that all American whites are benefiting from both structural racism and white supremacy? And black incarceration rates at 51%? Just because you're poor doesn't mean that you're at the bottom rung, and I think poor white men know this to be true; it's not just imaginary on their parts.

[ Parent ]
That is part of my point, I guess, that it isn't just imaginary, (4.00 / 1)
and that poor whites are voting for their interests, as far as race is concerned, when they vote for Republicans. This is a pattern we see again and again throughout American history. But the idea that there is someone lower than you is not much compensation for the 9.2%. It might be comforting to the psyche, I suppose, if you are predisposed to a malevolent, dog-eat-dog worldview.

[ Parent ]
Well, I agree mostly, but I think it nonetheless tends to indicate that (0.00 / 0)
you are likelier to find a job at some point.  

[ Parent ]
Yes, You're Both Right (0.00 / 0)
The fact that whites are better off as a group is supposed to compensate for the fact that everyone is doing worse than if we truly worked together and thought of ourselves as truly one people.

And unemployment is just one measure.  A very important one, of course.  But still only one measure among many.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Well, sure. We are both right; I don't disagree. But, you know, as a rape (0.00 / 0)
victim, I will concur that employment data doesn't tell the whole story; there are many ways to insist that a minority's status be conferred as lesser. It turns out that a pretty high percentage of them favor non-disabled white men.  

[ Parent ]
I would argue that no one benefits from that incarceration rate (4.00 / 1)
except for 'law and order' politicians trying to scare people enough to get elected.  

[ Parent ]
No? Look at the data at amount of $$$ it brings into communties that (0.00 / 0)
host prisons. Get back to me and tell me that isn't white welfare. Nevermind the unemployability of those with prison records that disproportionately benefits white employment.

[ Parent ]
And the costs of maintaining the prison system (4.00 / 1)
are distribued extremely widely through society.  Incarceration rates also drive a whole lot of difficult to statically analyze market externalities all through society. For one thing, it's in no one's interest to have a bunch of unemployable people out there.  It really isn't.  

Beyond prison towns and people making hay by 'getting tough on crime', benefits like that that you cite are pretty dramatically overshadowed by costs.  I'm not arguing that the costs aren't being borne a hundredfold worse by black people, at all.  I'm just arguing that the status quo is in no one's interest at all.  


[ Parent ]
Sure. Absolutely. n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
You're lucky, Paul (4.00 / 2)
It wasn't until recently that I started having a systematic appreciation of (some) phenomena, and I still occasionally fall into the old mode of thought.  Maybe it was partly a result of growing up in upper-middle class, mostly-white suburbs.

Sometimes I feel like the only way to fix our political system is to make our school system much more focused on fixing critical thinking, systematic reasoning, etc.  Unfortunately, the only way to do that is through our political system, which doesn't exactly leave me with much hope.  Especially since we're set to move backward even further on this front, under a Democratic President.

On a different subject, relating to the point you made about Martin Luther King...I remember hearing this quote (or something a lot like it) once: "The battle against slavery is a battle for black men's bodies and white men's souls."  Has anyone ever tried to do an analysis on the detriments of huge income inequality for the rich?

(also perhaps related: Fred Clark's post about how the Tea Party's rejection of empathy leads to their stupidity--http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2010/04/empathy-and-epistemic-closure.html)

Oh, also, a belated congratulations on getting a daily front-page spot here.  Hope it doesn't exhaust you too much.


Very Good Points All Around (4.00 / 1)
On this point:

Has anyone ever tried to do an analysis on the detriments of huge income inequality for the rich?

Check out The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better.  While it doesn't prove that the super-rich are better off with more equality, it shows that the vast majority of people are.



"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Critical Thinking (4.00 / 2)
Sometimes I feel like the only way to fix our political system is to make our school system much more focused on fixing critical thinking, systematic reasoning, etc.

That, of course, would be the exact opposite of what we are really doing.  A large chunk of "returning to basics" is to get away from critical thinking.


[ Parent ]
And Not Only That (4.00 / 1)
The Texas Textbook Massacre was carried out in part under the banner of "critical thinking"--about anything the ultra-conservatives don't like, of course!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
It's also worth noting (4.00 / 1)
and this partially answers the question that I posed the other day - why is this video effective where say, the "limbic system" remarks of Janine Garofalo were not?

One thing is that when someone African-American expresses these sentiments it somehow seems more authentic.  However, it also tends to drive people who really do have serious racial hangups batty.  Witness the comments on Joan Walsh's posting on this video at Salon.  That may even be an advantage in certain situations.

But the main reason is that the Video-Maker didn't call the Tea Party "racist" at all.  His criticism extends beyond the Tea Party.  He's talking about the wider society that tolerates Tea Party militance but not black militants.

In other words, the white supremacy angle that you're talking about.

It doesn't call names.  It just presents facts.  Very effective stuff.  "I just tell the truth and they think it's hell."

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


I think I see your point! (0.00 / 0)
Those T-Shirts should say:

On the Front: Yup, I'm a White Supremicist

On the Back: if the Government Says so Because...

1. I support the Constitution

2. I support Free Speech

3. I support the Right to Bear Arms

4. I support the Bill of Rights

5. I support Capitalism

6. I support NO Government Bailouts

7. I support closing the border

8. I support the Military

9. I support the Tea Party

10. I support Jesus Christ as My Savior.

Did I get that right? If anybody asks the t-shirt maker why he made the change, he can just say that the 'reasoning' is "profound", so "profound" that he can't articulate why, so why waste energy understanding the change of verbiage?

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Unclear On The Difference (4.00 / 4)
between refudiating an argument and confirmanizing it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
The thing that drives me nuts about this is (0.00 / 0)
that there is any debate about this after the direct invocation of the black panthers.  In any meaningful way, they represented what a Tea Party style movement in the black community would be--in particular, using guns as a way of defending communities after the police failed to protect anyone.  

And we all know how mainstream perception of the Black Panther Party turned out, both contemporaneously and today.  


Woah! (4.00 / 1)
The Black Panthers were so much more than using guns to protect the black community.

And the Tea Party is so much less...

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yes, I know (0.00 / 0)
But it was the starting point, and that was the cudgel used to demonize them.  

[ Parent ]




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