how the fuck can GOP rant about personal responsibililty (4.00 / 1)

for homeowners when the taxpayers are bailing out an entire industry that killed itself by writing fraudulent loans?

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by: Carl Nyberg @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 13:51:20 PM CDT

Everyone in this country is mad as hell, left and right (4.00 / 1)

At doing this type of deal.

Booman Tribune has a link about the politics of it.  This is as bad as the late 70's "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" movement to limit property taxes in California.

So in the face of THAT - we are going to let Democrats take ownership of - and here I quote Matt - "this steaming pile of shit".

Not to mention, even on the policy aspect of this - last week, we didn't need 1 trillion dollars, this week, we do??

And right now?  Not spread out over the year, say?

From a governing perspective - one of the largest bailouts ever, benefits rich Wall Streeters - you do 40 days before an election?

This is incredibly insane, and only on the table, because of the use of the Shock and Awe strategy, to bluff and bluster.

From every perspective, it doesn't make sense.  

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by: JC @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 13:55:13 PM CDT

CalculatedRisk reporting that WAMU going down the toilet (4.00 / 3)

Probably will be declared insolvent tomorrow.  $310B in assets, more than the FDIC reserves.

There may be a genuine philosphical difference here.  The Republicans opposed the bailout of LTCM during the Clinton years, even though it probably would have led to a Depression had it been allowed to fail.  Conservative commenters say the Depression wasn't that bad, let the market do its thing.

Now you've got conservatives opposed to any bailout on principle, and you've got Democrats probably rolling over for a bailout that will never, ever refund a cent of taxpayer money.

I don't think the Republicans are going to go along.  Dems are in a lose-lose situation: vote for the bail-out (as now widely promulgated) and lose credibility as a political party, don't vote for the bail-out and potentially be responsible for the next Great Depression.  How did they get here?  Perhaps if they had not panicked at the outset, things would be better for them.  Getting traction on some major issue like UHC might have ameliorated the damage to themselves, but they never even tried.

Oh well.  Failure has consequences.

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by: Taylor @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 13:57:07 PM CDT

Ouch (0.00 / 0)

Well, you've depressed me for the day...

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by: JC @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:17:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

media is manufacturing consensus (0.00 / 0)

to force politicians to march toward a goal that Bush gave them. And like the Iraq War, people who are already wealthy stand to make a bunch of money.

Anarchism is looking more promising all the time.

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by: Carl Nyberg @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:01:56 PM CDT

"We pushed very strongly for it"??? (4.00 / 2)

Barney, the Dems are in the majority.  If the Dems "push very strongly" for something, then it passes.

Pass the bill you want.  Include what you want.  If Mr. 19% vetoes it, that's his problem.  Does the GOP want to stonewall reform because they can't bring themselves to side with people losing their homes?

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by: Pesto @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:02:46 PM CDT

I am so frigging pissed! (4.00 / 2)

Folks can go without insurance for years, die of a cancer that could have been cured with proper medical treatment and the Dems in Washington say its so sad!  But when the crooks on Walls Street get their buts in a sling because they stole too much money the Derms come a running.

Barney Frank, Nancy P. and tose other spinless creatures that call themselves Dems makes me ashamed of being a Democrat.

Michael

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by: mwfolsom @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:03:55 PM CDT

Will McCain vote no? (0.00 / 0)

By-the-by, over at other places there is talk that McCain may vote no.  It would be a brilliant master stroke that may win him the election.  The independents would flock to him in droves.

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by: mwfolsom @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:06:29 PM CDT

Then the Dems move for reconsideration (0.00 / 0)

And vote no as well, defeating the bill.

Both parties buy this steaming pile of shit, or neither.  

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; McCain/Palin 2008

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by: cheesehead @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:19:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Agreed (0.00 / 0)

They are on this.

http://marcambinder.theatlanti...

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by: conspiracy @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:41:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Seems like a winning issue for the Dems (4.00 / 3)

If this "bankruptcy judge flexibility" issue is the final sticking point, it seems to me that this can be good for the Dems if they don't budge and explain their position clearly and strongly.

If I'm understanding the issue correctly (and maybe I'm not), it is a choice between helping Americans forced into bankruptcy stay in their homes, or going overboard to insure that financial institutions that are insolvent (and therefore should fail under good ol' market principles) avoid the fruits of their irresponsibility--and, for that matter, probably only temporarily and at great cost to taxpayers.  

We need to save institutions that face a liquidity problem, not those that are fundamentally insolvent.  

Like the homeowners in question, these insolvent companies should go bankrupt.  And when they do, we'll let their workers and, yes, their top executives keep their primary residence under a Democratic bill (but not their second, third and fourth homes).

The basic question then becomes, "whose side are you on," the side of American families facing hardship and the prospect of losing their home on top of it, or financial institutions led by greedy executives who CLAIM they'll fail if we make life a little easier for these American families--who, by the way, are in their current situation largely because of the abuses and inequity of the Republican Administration, their wealthy backers and the abuses that they've allowed to run rampant in the financial industry.

These American families already face "failure" from the stupid and unfair policies of the Republicans.  Do we now also want to make them homeless, so the fat cats can keep gaming the system?

This doesn't strike me as a very hard political sell, even for spine- and clarity-challenged Democratic politicans.

What am I missing here?

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by: mitchipd @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:15:46 PM CDT

CQ seems to suggest (0.00 / 0)

The senate Repubs are on board and that the House is the problem. McCain swooping down to persuade them looks like the plan.

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmsp...

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by: conspiracy @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:34:57 PM CDT

why is OpenLeft doing John McCain's bidding? (0.00 / 0)

Bottom line is that Rep. Frank is absolutely correct: the amendments to the bankruptcy code need not be dealbreakers.

The proposed provisions simply are not that radical -- they neither will be tremendously difficult to pass come January, nor will they be particularly helpful to the vast majority of struggling mortgageholders who nonetheless choose not to go into bankruptcy.  It's clear that a much broader restructuring solution is needed, and while it's not intended for that purpose, federal control of the shitpile will actually be a tremendous help on this front.

Come January, said shitpile will be under the control of Treasury.

Under a Democratic Treasury Secretary, federal gov't can act to unbundle assets and renegotiate terms with concessions to struggling homeowners.

Under a Phil Gramm, of course, government's new massive role in the market will instead be used to in the service of Wall Street.

Please do YOUR jobs, and fight to get Barack Obama elected, as it's FAR more important than anything than anything that can be achieved by advocating for particular additional language in the bill at this point.

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by: YuedoTiko @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:35:04 PM CDT

Get real (0.00 / 0)

The proposed provisions simply are not that radical -- they neither will be tremendously difficult to pass come January,

If they can't be passed now, with the financial industry claiming it's facing extinction without help, why on Earth would it be easy to pass them in January, once the financial industry has everything it needs?

Account created last Friday.  I smell a Wall Street or Capitol Hill shill.  

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by: Taylor @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 14:55:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Because in Jan, God willing, there won't be a Republican WH to veto it (0.00 / 0)

Ain't rocket science.

As to your little detective's project, please smell away -- I'm a longtime accountholder at myDD and have nothing to hide.

(BTW, I'm an attorney and former economist with no links to the financial industry, to Capitol Hill or to DC otherwise.)

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by: YuedoTiko @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 15:28:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sorry, it won't make it out of the Senate in Jan (0.00 / 0)

Either you get it now of forget it -

Don't forget the Banks own lots of Dems too -

M-

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by: mwfolsom @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 16:16:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ever heard of the filibuster? (0.00 / 0)

You shove it in, you make them vote for it, you kick them when they're down. You do not wait until January.

We're helping out their base, they can damn well say thank you as we impose conditions that ought to be taken as read in any civilised country anyway.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

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by: Englishlefty @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 17:43:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Is this serious?" (0.00 / 0)

That needs to be the question. If it isn't, they can fuck right off.

If not, they can shut the hell up and let the bailout be passed with enough measures not to royally screw over taxpayers and the vulnerable.

Republicans have a choice. They can pass a bill that bails out those who screwed up beyond all reasonable imagining and also helps those hurt by this, or we can get nasty.

Me, I favour the second option.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

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by: Englishlefty @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 17:45:47 PM CDT

Fire Barney Frank (0.00 / 0)

Please. Someone? Fire him. If he had good ideas people would take him seriously. Even with the speech impediment.

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by: leoeris @ Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 18:22:14 PM CDT