Tom Friedman Is Spelled "S-T-U-P-I-D"

by: David Sirota

Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 16:03


Tom Friedman shills for Corporate America (shocker!) and attacks those who want American taxpayer money spent creating American rather than foreign jobs, because – dontcha know? – outsourcing American jobs is good for American workers:

While I think President Obama has been doing his best to keep the worst protectionist impulses in Congress out of his stimulus plan, the U.S. Senate unfortunately voted on Feb. 6 to restrict banks and other financial institutions that receive taxpayer bailout money from hiring high-skilled immigrants on temporary work permits known as H-1B visas.

Bad signal. In an age when attracting the first-round intellectual draft choices from around the world is the most important competitive advantage a knowledge economy can have, why would we add barriers against such brainpower – anywhere? That’s called “Old Europe.” That’s spelled: S-T-U-P-I-D.

For background, Friedman is referring to the Senate amendment passed by Bernie Sanders and Charles Grassley – an amendment so uncontroversial and bipartisan that it passed by voice vote. And really, it’s hard to know where to begin with someone like Friedman who is theocratically devoted to ignorance.

In Friedman’s world, the H-1B program does one thing and one thing only: it helps benevolent corporations attract “first-round intellectual draft choices from around the world,” which therefore makes our country and our economy stronger.

He’s aggressively uninterested in the concrete data that show the H-1B program is most often used to lower a company’s labor costs, not improve its intellectual capacity, and to offshore the very knowledge-based information sector jobs that Friedman says he wants to attact to the United States.

David Sirota :: Tom Friedman Is Spelled “S-T-U-P-I-D”
How does the H-1B program do this? By being deliberately structured to let companies fire qualified domestic workers and replace them with H-1Bs at lower wages. Indeed, the program doesn’t mandate that a company even look for a qualified American worker before using an H-1B visa – even if there is a qualified (or more qualified) American worker who wants the job, the company can use the H-1B visa to import a cheaper worker from abroad.

In fact, as Rochester Institute of Technology professor Ron Hira shows, the H-1B doesn’t help “attract” workers to this country – it actually helps companies transfer good-paying jobs and technical expertise offshore, because those H-1B workers are often trained in the United States, and then reassigned to the company’s facility in the lower-wage home country:

“In reality, the H-1B program has been thoroughly corrupted. Rather than providing firms with workers who posses unique skills, the program is dominated by low wage workers with ordinary rank-and-file skills. And rather than preventing work from going overseas, the program is speeding it up.

First, [the program] facilitates their knowledge-transfer operations, where they rotate in foreign workers in to learn U.S. workers’ jobs. In fact, U.S. workers are often “transferring knowledge” under duress.

Second, the H-1B and L-1 programs provide [corporations] an inexpensive, on-site presence that enables them to coordinate offshore functions. Many functions that are done remotely still require a significant amount of physical presence at the customer site. For example, according to its own financial reporting, Infosys’ on-site workers, almost all of whom are foreign guestworkers, directly accounted for 49.2 percent of its revenue in its most recent quarter.

Third, the H-1B and L-1 programs allows the U.S. operations to serve as a training ground for foreign workers who then rotate back to their home country to do the work more effectively than they could have without such training in the United States.”

This says nothing of the fact that H-1B workers have no basic labor rights, because their immigration status is effectively determined by their employer (ie. you’re not going to demand a raise or a union if you know your employer can get you deported for making such demands). But I’m sure Friedman subscribes to the Nicholas Kristof school of sociopathy when it comes to such moral issues.

No, where Friedman really comes up short is in his basic ignorance – or dishonesty – about the very H-1B program he touts. Either he’s the same know-nothing Tom Friedman who bragged about writing columns in support of the Central American Free Trade Agreement while simultaneously admitting he never even read the pact. Or, he’s being the Tom Friedman who knows all the data about the H-1B program and prefers to ignore it in service to his corporate friends. Either way, the basic facts of his argument are, to use his phraseology, S-T-U-P-I-D.

NOTE: As I wrote in my book, and in other places, I’m not opposed to immigration – I’d like to see legal immigration rise, and I’d even support a reformed H-1B program that actually served the economic interests of both foreign and domestic workers. But that’s not what we have right now in the H-1B program – as constructed now, the program is designed to exploit both foreign and domestic workers. That’s good for no one.


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Ezra Klein disagrees (0.00 / 0)
This is stupid and offensive. Even if you think a temporary form of protectionism is warranted, it’s certainly not warranted to protect the banking industry. Are we really so concerned that the very actors who detonated the U.S. economy might have to spend some time unemployed?

He’s got a point, David.  Why are you protecting the very same people who got us into this mess?  Why not bring in experts that are not connected to Wall Street?


 
OK, that's an argument. You take our take our idiots and we take yours! (4.00 / 3)
Now, come on, Mark, do you really believe our bankers, or those of any other country, are any better? It’s only better regulation that sometimes makes a difference, not the managers themselves. And even regulation isn’t as good as we thought in ole Europe, as proven by our own 630 billion dollar bailout in Germany.

No, sry, but rewarding our fools with a job in the US wouldn’t make much sense to you and to us. And those who were really reponsible for giant screwups will already have problems getting a new job in a declining business. Would you want to hire a leading manager of Lehman, or of German Hypo Real Estate?`Probably not. Those losers already get their punishment.


[ Parent ]  
Say what? (4.00 / 2)
So its better that our tax money goes to subsidize banks offshoring jobs? It’s better to let bank executives use our money to underwrite outsourcing? Say what?

[ Parent ]  
H1B workers work in the US (0.00 / 0)
so that doesn’t sound like “offshoring” or “outsourcing”.  

[ Parent ]  
Sirota is right on this one. (0.00 / 0)
I went further, although I’m kind of shocked at the Sirota blast, I wrote up this one.

Now these are financial IT jobs, it is pure labor arbitrage and during the 2000-2004 time period these financial institutions fired hundreds of thousands of Americans, moved the jobs offshore and when they could not offshore outsource the jobs….brought in cheaper foreign labor.  Now we are focusing in on the well known “outsourcing” visa, the H-1B, but they especially used L-1 visas, which are unlimited.

The paper cited, I read it and go read the paper and what I have to say.  But if you think ascertaining someone’s citizenship status based on how “funky” their last name is…
well, let’s all go back to undergraduate classes in that statistics for dummies 201 class…

I just couldn’t believe I read such brazen and almost bizarre assumptions about who is a U.S. citizen and these cats clearly have never stepped inside any R&D; lab either, or understand the patent process contained within.  

Thanks for this blast Sirota.  I thought I would be the only one on the web breaking rational protocol and going on a big fat rant.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]  
Uh, even we in "old europe" don't see visa as a free trade issue! (4.00 / 4)
And those work visas are a controversial issue here, too. Companies would like to have no restrictions, sure, but workers, specialists, and their unions see this cheap competition from India and elsewhere otherwise, of course. Generally, the left wing stance is not to let workers in if there are already enough skilled people in the same profession. Simply allowing the companies to push the wage ldevel even lower, and to get rid of labor rights through the backdoor makes no sense, of course. I guess its the same in the US, too.

So, Friedman is really an elitist idiot who does know nothing about the real problems of working people in the US. We already got rid of Billy Kristol, thank goodness, when will thickheaded Tom go, too?


 
that's not a left wing stance (4.00 / 3)
A leftwing stance is both anti-imperialist and pro-labor.

What you’ve argued for is a “we’ve made a political choice” stance, which is  fine.  but it shouldn’t be framed in moral terms when its basic framework is  that global inequalities among countries are natural  and right.

But yes, Thomas Friedman is an elitist idiot who should be discredited to the point where he gets dropped from  serious converstaions altogether.  He’s not worth engaging because his time is up (it ended around 9/26/08).


[ Parent ]  
Who said that's the framework? (0.00 / 0)
Lots of foreign national students at the universities here. But where’s the sense in pulling full grown professionals away from their homecountries, to work in Germany, with all the negative consequences for our own population, when they would do their own nation a much better service by staying at home and starting their own businesses.

Doc, you may see guest workers as another way of supporting developing countries, but that’s what official foreign aid is for! Really, I can’t see the “basic framework” you describe at work here. Pls abstain from such baseless accusations.  


[ Parent ]  
that is not what i said (0.00 / 0)
what i said was that the idea that some people by virtue of their nationality or citizenship rights have more rights or a right to a better life than others is not “leftwing.”  People who claim to be leftwing may articulate such things, but a much better label for it is nationalist, populist, or other such things.  

Foreign national students in the UK bring income (because they can be charged higher rates) and I imagine it is similar in Germany though correct me if I’m wrong.  So both the H-1B programme as well as allowing foreign national students and many other facets of migration policy are built on the basic idea laid out above – that some countries’ citizens have a right to be wealthier and have a right to more opportunities economically and socially than other countries’ citizens.  This is just a basic fact – the only contentious part is whether one can seriously call one’s self “leftwing” with a populist and liberal ideology that pays no attention to international inequities.

Another way to look at this is to consider the question of class as a global issue – so that instead of looking solely at the different classes within countries, you start commparing groups among various countries and see where they fall with respect to each other.

So a leftwing position might TACTICALLY adopt support for a populist movement in a particular country that supports nationalism, but ultimately, it has to start from recognizing that labor rights are labor rights and keeping people out of a labor market through citizenship laws and border regulations is the same as any other kind of discrimination.


[ Parent ]  
"People who claim to be leftwing may articulate such things" (0.00 / 0)
Uh huh. So, most left wingers here aren’t really left wing. Hmm, interesting. Ok, Doc. let’s just say we have diffenrent opinions on this, and not get into a struggle.

“I imagine it is similar in Germany though correct me if I’m wrong”
There are almost no private universities here, and state universities charge between about 100 to 600 Euros per Semester, so every student is aditional costs for the state, and not a source of income.

As for your opinions about immigration – well those are your opinions, not the view of the majority in the US or Europe, not even the majority of left wingers. Sry, but I just can’t agree with you on this, because I think this would be economical madness. There are billions of people all around the world living at a much lower standard, most of them willin to resettle for a better quaöity of life. We can’t let them all in.


[ Parent ]  
okay (0.00 / 0)
Sry, but I just can’t agree with you on this, because I think this would be economical madness. There are billions of people all around the world living at a much lower standard, most of them willin to resettle for a better quaöity of life. We can’t let them all in.

There are three positions (at least) you can take on whether people from wealthier countries/ hold the citizenship of wealthier countries have the right to better life conditions than people in poor countries:

1) They don’t, and this should be changed immediately by opening borders.

2) They don’t, but it’s in the short run an unimplementable principle that needs careful work and a long run, democratically derived solution that helps ordinary people, not corporations.

2) They do, because the idea that people in some countries / with some citizenships are entitled to better lives is morally justifiable.

I’m not asking you to agree with me but to simply think about that last one– which I think is one of the last acceptable prejudices in that’s it’s usually unspoken and frequently completely ignored: that nationality or citizenship status gives some people the right to better social, economic, emotional, or other aspects of life.  

In my original comment to David, I offered an array of choices which ranged between options one and options two (all of which except the most radical were ignored).  Both of those options, if meant sincerely, accept the morality of equal human rights (in practice, not just in theory or according to the whims of western governments, ngos, etc.) and agree that in the long run this is a problem that needs to be addressed, but don’t necessarily agree on strategy or tactics.  

Whereas the third point…well, I don’t see much justification for the value that any American life is worth more than a Canadian life or a German life or an Ethiopian life or an Iraqi life (or vice versa).  It’s all the same shit – that’s what human rights means.


[ Parent ]  
You're a dreamer, Doc… (0.00 / 0)
…but even though you have some good points, you’re very weak on implementing your better world. No, sry, don’t explain it to me, I’m not that much interested.

Btw, I’m for 2b) They don’t, and they should help peopel in other cpountries to get a better standard of living, too. However, those people in developing countries don’t have the right to free entry in any country they like better. Concentrating all people in a small part of the western hemisphere, while leaving large parts of the world unpopulated is no solution.

My last word in this matter. As I said, I’m not really interested.


[ Parent ]  
(0.00 / 0)
have you never wondered why some countries are poor and other countries are rich?

[ Parent ]  
Yes, Who hasn't? (0.00 / 0)
It’s simply fate, coincidences of human history who have set this course over thousands of years. Nothing we can change on the fly.

[ Parent ]  
you need to read some wallerstein (0.00 / 0)
or marx
or william blum
or noam chomsky
or adam smith

or anyone else who has talked about primitive accumulation, colonialism, or any of the other associated factors.  History exists.


[ Parent ]  
I read Adam Smith and Chosky… (0.00 / 0)
..and I know the main points of Marx, even though I think he is more of historical interest since his work seems to be very influenced by the conditions of the beginning of industrialization. Times have changed, and especially his political conclusions don’t make any sense today.

As for Blum and Wallerstein, I have to admit, I will have to look them up.


[ Parent ]  
it's not the specifics of 19th century theory (0.00 / 0)
it’s the wealth of documentation that the dispairities in wealth that exist among different countries are not accidents or due to the moral worth or people from different places, but are the product of history (and the actions that different places took).  And that this information is then systematically obliterated from the American political conscience (this is where chomsky is particularly useful).

Haven’t you ever wondered why outside of East Asia almost every major industrialised country in the world is predominantly White (even if the settler colonies didn’t start out that way)?   Haven’t you ever wondered why the axis countries during world war ii were all late industrialisers?  Or why most of the anti-immigrant sentiment in the u.s. today is directed at Indian outsourcing (economic competition), Chinese currency manipulation and jobs (economic competition) or Muslims (control over resources necessary for the economy).  Why Pakistan became a military state (hint: Anglo-American imperial rivalry played a role following colonialism and indigenous factors), why so many former british colonies like Palestine and Ceylon and British India and Nigeria and Cyprus have had a specific type of ethnic civil wars and partitions or near partitions?

Like I said, it’s really really important to take an honest look at the history and try to understand it if you want to judge the worth or lack of worth of particular claims today.  Most sane Americans will admit the great historical wrongs the U.S. has done to Black people and Native peoples or the Japanese Internments, but hardly any will make a point of noting the impact of continued warfare and conquest of land from Mexico and the domination of Latin America (among other places) followed by mass deportations like Operation Wetback.  Hell, most people don’t even know that there were U.S. troops in the Soviet Union during the Soviet civil war!

Then we can decide what we think of global disparities in wealth.


[ Parent ]  
it's also interesting that you say "the beginnings of industrialisation" (0.00 / 0)
when in fact something like 70-80% of the world’s population is (unfortunately) still engaged in the process of industrialisation.  If it, in fact, ever has an end.  But that’s for another day 🙂 peace out (assuming you still want to end the conversation 😛 ).

[ Parent ]  
That's the predominant left wing stance here in Germany! (0.00 / 0)
Looks like the unions are still much stronger here in than in the US, you know. As for global inequality, even the Green Party folks are backpeddaling on the work visa issue. Their voters don’t like the corporations using cheaper competition to apply pressure on their wages and their rights, either.

[ Parent ]  
here's the thing (0.00 / 0)
you can be anti-corporate, pro-worker, and internationalist as well.  It’s not rocket science – it’s just not en vogue these days.  But we will change all that 🙂  Don’t let  you from  the political debate of the time blind you from what the social realities around you are – any more than it was appropriate for White American workers to try to protect their jobs from Black American workers or for the AFL-CIO to collaborate with the CIA during the Cold War.  Once workers start arguing amongst themselves and identifying with other identities slike “german” or “american” or “indian” then the corporations and their friends in government have easy pickings in dividing them and driving wages to as low a level as possible or keeping them from going up and staying with as much power as possible.  Why do you think nothing changes?

[ Parent ]  
65000 visas shouldn't be controversial (0.00 / 0)
unless all immigration is controversial. The million+ immigrants a year “take” way more jobs than some tech workers.

Or is the issue that they’re taking jobs from educated whites while other immigrants are taking service and labor industry jobs for the most part so they’re not a threat to the white power structure?


[ Parent ]  
well now that wealthier andn more privileged people are worse off (0.00 / 0)
they will enlist the outrage of other people, channel it against immigrants (or whoever the bete noire du jour is) and get their narrow intersts met with some sops to the people at the bottom.  Or at least, that is what they will try, if we who would rather not play their game don’t focus on seeing each other as human beings before anything else.

[ Parent ]  
A group already tried to villify immigrants (0.00 / 0)
and they had their asses handed to them. We know them as Republicans!

[ Parent ]  
political party is not the same as social force (0.00 / 0)
in the legislative debate over the immigration  reform legislation, there were two factions – pro-corporate (some Republicans like McCain and most Democrats) and populist/xenonphobic/racist(the Sensenbrenner/Tancredo/Minutemen Republicans).  Basically it was (is) a war over whether immigrants should be exploited or demonized just like the Republican party right now is split between the people who respond to Grover Norquist and those that respond to Sarah Palin.

But that doesn’t mean that there’s no populism now – if anything, there’s even more.  Which is amazing, in my opinion.  But some (imo really silly) anti-corporate advocates will ignore that they’re teetering betweeen populist as ini pro-people (like Thomas Franks) and nativist/xenophobic (like  Lou Dobbs).  And they’ll completely ignore that it’s pretty easy to be anti-corporate and pro-immigrant (especially since immigrants ARE workers).  Moreover, it makes a lot more sense since immigarnts are better long-term movement allies of Americn citizen workers than American politiians or the media or the steel company executives.  

So, for now, instead of a normal conversation about people and how to organize labor movements, we get a continuing battle between Lou Dobbs (nativist populist) and Thomas Friedman (neoliberal / pro-rich / jackass) and “Buy America” and all that jazz.  

And it’s all pretty demeaning of migrants in very different ways.


[ Parent ]  
There is no large social force or movement (0.00 / 0)
against immigrants. The fastest growing segment of the population are current and recent immigrants. They have the political power. Unions are populated with them and are now moving towards working with groups that support legalizing the undocumented. What you see on TV isn’t what’s happening on the ground.  It’s the opposite of an anti-immigrant backlash.


[ Parent ]  
there is a growing populist movement (0.00 / 0)
it has more anti-immigrant strands and it has more progresssive strands.  the question is which ones will win out.  this is why its important (for me) for the democrats to be populist, at least until there’s a populist progressive alternative that people are willing to work for.  If they’re not, then the Republicans will seize on that energy with Sarah Palins, or that faction in the Republican Party will.  That’s why it’s ridiculous (in a practical sense) when people dismiss white working class voters and more generally don’t pay attention to class and its links to economic ideology in talking about possible policy frameworks.

[ Parent ]  
Embarrassment… (4.00 / 2)
I’m always embarrassed everytime he opens his yap or writes his column that he’s from MN.  

 
Maybe his parents were in Alaska… (0.00 / 0)
..when they, uh, well, you know…

[ Parent ]  
IBM is a chief proponent (4.00 / 3)
of lowering costs via H1-B’s. They are now also sending recently laid-off workers overseas to staff their outsourcing operations in India, Brazil  and elsewhere. And as a final step in adjusting their workforce to Tom Friedman’s reality kicking their recent layoffs in the teeth, they’re hiring contractors for jobs that use the same skills as those they recently dumped at 1/3 to 1/4 the pay of those former full time workers. If those workers were a commodity IBM would be guilty of dumping.

 
even worse (4.00 / 3)
IBM over and over again has gotten huge state tax incentives and contracts on the promise….of creating jobs in the U.S. or hiring Americans  They never do and frankly states should demand their money back plus put out for competitive bids from others, who want to provide jobs for U.S. techies….they are out there.

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]  
Germany held Nokia accountable when they didn't fulfill promises. (0.00 / 0)
When Nokia decided to close down its factory in Bochum, state and federal administrations checked whether they had really fulfilled the promises they made in return for large scal subsidies, and decided that the Fins fell short of it. By applying a lot of pressure on Nokia, and advancing to bring the case to the courts, the officials managed to get a very good settlement that will help the city to attract new industries and create jobs:

HELSINKI (Thomson Financial) – Nokia (nyse: NOK) Oyj said it will put about 20 million euros into a fund that will be used to attract investors to Bochum, the German city where the company is closing a mobile phone factory this summer.

The Finnish company also plans to contribute the net proceeds from the sale of the production facility and property at the site as part of a settlement to end a dispute over the plant’s closure.

An additional 20 million euros will come from the regional government.

Nokia said a package of measures, dubbed ‘Growth For Bochum’, will be launched to stimulate growth and create jobs in Bochum and the surrounding area.

Its contribution to the plan comes on top of a 200 million euros support package for Bochum plant employees agreed in April.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/af…

Holding corporations accountable for promises pays off! States shouldn’t simply write their investment off, but play hardball. After all, the corporations do that, too. Doesn’t make any sense to be the pussy in that game.  


[ Parent ]  
Perfect Description of H-1B… (4.00 / 5)
I used to work for a Giant Entity (I’ll not divulge the Giant Entity’s name).  They had a pooled accounting center in Florida.  For the first 5 years or so of the center’s existence, all of the IT personnel were Americans or long term residents, and they were paid according to the standard corporate pay scale.

Suddenly, the Giant Entity decided that they were going to outsource many IT functions.  The reasoning behind it was that “we are not a programming company – we are a company that uses programming.”  Any local contractors were let go once their contracts were complete, and contractors from Wipro and Tata appeared on site.  I don’t know what they were paid, but I am hard-pressed to think of any who did not share an apartment with 2-3 other overseas consultants to be able to pay rent (and rent was very inexpensive in that area).

The pattern as told to us by the department’s IT manager was:  two to three consultants would spend six to twelve months on site in Florida learning the programs, procedures, and general work flow.  Then those consultants would go back to India, with one being the liaison between the programmers over there and the new set of overseas consultants now on site in Florida.

Any H-1B’s issued were definitely NOT for bringing needed skills from overseas.  Those 2-3 consultants replaced ONE local consultant (who was very skilled and knowledgeable).  In addition, at least four of the six overseas consultants I worked with (all from Tata) were within 2 years of graduating from their university.  Once they graduated, they went through a 15 month (I believe it was 15 months…) training program at Tata, then came to the U.S.  

These were all nice, decent people that Tata stationed with us.  And they were skilled, if inexperienced.  But did they have “unique skills,” or “first-round intellectual draft choices from around the world”?  Hardly.  Were they paid peanuts compared to U.S. consultants and Giant Entity employees?  Absolutely.

And they were treated as indentured servants.  As mentioned, the Giant Entity used both Wipro and Tata.  Both companies were used within the accounting center, with each department able to use whichever vendor they chose.  Because of that, any complaints by individual consultants to their supervisors was dismissed because the department’s IT manager would switch vendors if they complained too much.  Three examples of how poorly the individual consultants were treated:  
1) I was told to “finish a project no matter what” one afternoon.  I worked with two consultants until 4:00 AM (yes, I was a bastard to them).  When we finally left, I told them I wasn’t going to be in until after Noon, and that they should do the same.  I left a message with my supervisor stating how late we were there, and what I told the consultants about showing up late.  The next morning, the two consultants had the “audacity” (not my word) to show up at 9:00 AM (instead of their usual 8:00 AM).  The IT manager they reported to reamed them out for showing up late – and this was AFTER the manager knew how late they had stayed.
2) Another IT manager told a group of us that, whenever we needed something from the overseas consultants, we should give them a bogus accelerated deadline.  In her words “they take a lot of pride in their work, and they’ll stay late to get it done, so if you need it next week, tell them you need it tomorrow.”  They did not get overtime.
3) The reaming manager from example (1) used to yell “hey Boy, get in here!” over the cubicle walls when he needed one of the consultants in his office.  

I left the Giant Entity back in 1997 (the above events happened in 1995-1997), and have not looked back.  The folks I work for now are decent human beings who treat their workers (ALL workers) with respect, and who don’t abuse legal loopholes to scrape an extra penny of profit into their bottom line.

(My apologies for the loooong post…)


 
How corporations help American workers avoid the "draft" (4.00 / 2)
Here’s a video of a seminar instructing companies on how to meet the requirements of the H1-b law while doing everything possible to make sure American workers don’t know about the jobs or are weeded out on technicalities.  The consultants in this presentation are explicit that their “goal is not to find an interested or qualified U.S. worker.”
It’s not about “attracting the first-round intellectual draft choices”, but Friedman and his political/media elite cohort love to frame issues in terms of meritocracy because, of course, they see themselves as reflective of that. Actually if we were a meritocratic “knowledge economy” none of us would be familiar with the name Thomas Friedman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…

 
There is no requirement to test (0.00 / 0)
the job market for H1B visas so why would you need to weed out US workers?  

[ Parent ]  
H1B Visa obligations differ for H1B dependent employers and do require U.S. recruitment attempt (0.00 / 0)
I wasn’t aware of the distinction for H1B dependent employers and assumed it was a requirement for all employers seeking H1B visa workers.  Glad you posted so I could inform myself further and clarify, although it doesn’t change the point of the video except for that distinction.
http://www.cincinnatimdjobs.co…
Additional requirements for H1B dependent employers:
Employers are considered to be H1B dependent if they have less than 25 workers and more than 7 H1B workers; between 26 to 50 workers and more than 12 H1b workers; or more than 50 workers with 15% or more of them being H-1B foreign nationals.
In this case, H1B dependent employer must fulfill 2 additional requirements.
Displacement of U.S. workers:
An H-1B dependent employer must attest that by hiring a H-1B worker, it is not displacing any U.S. worker for a similar position within 90 days before or after filing a H1B petition.”
Recruitment efforts:
The H1B dependent employer must also attest to making good faith attempts to recruit U.S. workers and offering prevailing wages for this position.”


[ Parent ]  
Right H1B dependent employers (0.00 / 0)
have hoops to jump through. Did you find any stats on H dependent employers? None of the banks are. They had less than 1% H employees.  

[ Parent ]  
Yes, he is (0.00 / 0)
NOTE: As I wrote in my book, and in other places, I’m not opposed to immigration – I’d like to see legal immigration rise, and I’d even support a reformed H-1B program that actually served the economic interests of both foreign and domestic workers. But that’s not what we have right now in the H-1B program – as constructed now, the program is designed to exploit both foreign and domestic workers. That’s good for no one.

1. Why do you think a “reformed” H-1B program would conceptually be any less obnoxious or anti-labor than the current one?
2. Why didn’t you call for said program in the stimulus bill and why aren’t you now with the same level of vehemence as you call for anti-outsourcing measures?
3. Why don’t you go farther than this disclaimer and point out that the conversations around outsourcing, though often driven by extremely legitimate grievances, are counterproductive when xenophobic, nationalist, or racist?
4. Why do you want to see legal immigration rise, and on what terms?
5. Do you support an amnesty for all undocumented people in the United States so they have labor rights?
6. Do you support free movement of labor and transnational unions regardless of citizenship so that all people have labor rights and corporations lose the incentive to hire people from abroad?

Dr. Anonymous


 
that is insane (0.00 / 0)
free movement of labor, uncontrolled migration is a guaranteed race to the bottom, wage repression and disaster for workers.

It’s econ 101, labor economics 101.  Called law of supply/demand.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]  
A race to the bottom? (0.00 / 0)
98% of people who came to Ellis Island were let in. The rule used to be that if you could get here you could stay.

Did American fail or prosper from basically unfettered immigration?  


[ Parent ]  
yes actually (0.00 / 0)
the point of that was to flood the labor markets and it was only after Congress started limiting immigration flows did labor markets stabilize.  This put the labor rights movement back a good 50 years because employers could import more labor, which they assuredly did.

It wasn’t until 1934 when labor really got some rights and while FDR and more importantly labor secretary Francis Perkins enabled legislation which gave unions real bargaining power, another large aspect of this is they started limiting immigration in the 1920’s.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]  
America failed? (0.00 / 0)
I’ve seen no evidence of that. Can you show me some numbers?

I’ve seen some numbers that show that the US tanked when it restricted immigration in the 20’s and only began to rocket back up when they lifted those restrictions.  


[ Parent ]  
this is a really simplified take on American labor history (0.00 / 0)
Like in Australia and other settler colonies, there has always been a tie between anti-labour or other political agendas and immigration policies.  Marcus Garvey?  Deported.  Emma Goldman?  Deported.  Asian Exclusion Acts?  Palmer Raids?  Alien and Sedition Acts?

Moreover, there was obviously a lot of forced migration both in the form of slavery and in the forcible displacement of native peoples like the Cherokees (who actually tried to follow the prescriptions of the American governmetn and ‘settle down’- before they were forced to march on the Trail of Tears).  So the whole myth of the “open society” is a big lie, in my opinion, although obviously there was a deliberate attempt to attract and retain migrants (increasingly the ‘right’ kind of migrants).

Finally, there have been systems of maintaining separate labour populations with some of them falling on more marginal ends, and using immigration policy.  These include slavery, segretatoin, sexism, welfare policy, and immigration policy, as well as anti-labor laws and practices.

So the question “did Americans fail or prosper from basically unfettered immigration” really doesn’t work here – moreover, it’s largely irrelevant.  The question is whetehr the people who came here and the people who were here who were the least privileged were better or worse for wear from migration.


[ Parent ]  
Sure it works here. We can look at the economic (0.00 / 0)
prosperity of the nation. You’re talking about social ills which, while bad, certainly don’t mean that the economy of the US suffered from immigration.  

[ Parent ]  
if your entire measure of worth is gdp growth (0.00 / 0)
what is the point of bothering about political / moral questions at all?  Just figuring out the best ways to advance strategiess that will lead to GDP growth?

[ Parent ]  
Politcal/Moral? (0.00 / 0)
Immigration restriction in the past was based on racism not economics. They couldn’t care less that the least skilled Americans were making 5-10% less.

So what’s moral about restricting immigration?


[ Parent ]  
there's nothing moral about restricting immigration in a broad sense (0.00 / 0)
but that’s not my point – in understanding the issue, you can’t reasonably argue that social and economics are entirely separate parts of society  Racism and economics often intersect with each other – for example, look at slavery or sharecropping or the restriction of labor rights from undocumented people today.

that’s why i think it’s wrong to mix up a genuinely pro-immigrant viewpoint (which advocates in the interests of migrants and free migration) with a pro-corporate guestworker programme – the guestworker programme RESTS on the idea that there is a wealthy place and a poor place and the wealthy place should cherrypick people from the poor place to meet the needs of wealthy people in the wealthy place.  There are other alternatives to this that are pro-poor AND pro-immigrant (like an amnesty).


[ Parent ]  
actually it's not (2.00 / 2)
labor econ 101 would tell you that there are certain segments of the global labor market who have access to certain jobs, while other segments of the labor market (i.e. 80% of the population) don’t.  As a result, because they’re locked out of the highest tier segments of the market, most of the world’s population doesn’t really have labour rights in the sense that Americans think of them.

However, setting that aside, by focusing on legalizing migration rather than excluding or criminalizing certain populations (which has been referred to as “exporting unemployment”), more people would travel back and forth and less people would permanently reside in places in which they were not born. people tend not to uproot themselves and travel 10000 miles unless there’s a really serious economic disparity 😉  At the same time, by delinking citizenship and rights and instead focusing on the concept of labour rights and freedom of movement as human rights, it would be possible to eliminate one of the ways in which low wage, working class, and middle class workers are pitted against each other (citizenship) just like dealing with racism allows you to bring Black and White and other workers together more effectively.  So you wouldn’t have any more H-1B problems – because the H-1B workers or undocumented migrants or anyone else would be able to join unions, leave their jobs, etc., just like any other workers.

There are other solutions that are possible, but ultimately, sitting there and saying “I don’t care about anyone except Americans” doesn’t really get you very far in addressing why American corporations and American banks and the American government is able to get away with exploiting American workers (and in the process pitting them against people from other countries, who bear the brunt of the anger).


[ Parent ]  
not only are you a troll (0.00 / 1)
but you’re also clueless on economics. Try as you might you cannot rewrite the fundamental laws of supply and demand curves.  Please, please sign up for an undergraduate economics course, hell attempt a 400 level labor economics class,  so you can try to graph diverging curves and present it on the exam.  Please do so, spend a good $5000 dollars in tuition please.  Maybe when it’s only out of your pocket after you receive an F grade for the course will you quit trying to spin international labor economics fundamental laws upside down.   I would greatly appreciate that effort instead of spamming a blog.

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]  
i'll set aside the troll rating (0.00 / 1)
can you please point out why my analysis of the global labour market is incorrect rather than insulting me?  Also, for a pro-worker person, you sure are pointing to tenets of neoclassical economics a lot.

In the future, please try not to give me a troll rating when I don’t deserve it.  It really does make you look foolish.


[ Parent ]  
okay given the second totally unwarranted troll rating today (0.00 / 0)
I’ll assume that you can’t actually refute what I argued about the global labor market being segmented.  Now I will leave it to others (or you) to understand why you continue to give perfectly plausible statements I make about internationalism and labor rights troll ratings (in addition to other behavior which could rightfully be called abusive)…

😉


[ Parent ]  
What is important here are numbers, and this post does not provide them. (0.00 / 0)
I don’t know much about the issue, but it’s easy enough to come to an answer–the relation of pay between an H1-B holder and an American worker doing the same job. I want to see numbers, and not just blindly embrace borders. Borders are necessary, but bad. I would like to work in another country. The Europeans are lucky to be able to do so.

And yes, Tom Friedman is spelled STUPID. Friedman optimistically relishes human suffering.


 
CIS? (0.00 / 0)
Any groups not linked to white supremacists?  

[ Parent ]  
that is absurd (0.00 / 0)
Look you asked and I took the time.  I do not believe the Urban institute, the Sloan foundation, the GAO and the NRC are white supremacist groups.

Nor is CIS and if you wish to claim professors and researchs from various institutions like Harvard and Princeton who often do the research reports for CIS are white supremcists, feel free to live in fantasy illusions.

But to claim the Government accountability office is now a group of white supremacists, well, I guess all those statisticians and analysis who are federal employees should be informed!

Stop wasting people’s time, you obviously are not interested in the facts.

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]  
I didn't ask (0.00 / 1)
but the GAO study basically just says that a study should be done and yes the CIS is linked with white supremacists. Weird you didn’t know either of those things.  

[ Parent ]  
Actually the H1B program requires that the company (0.00 / 0)
pay the higher of the actual wage or the prevailing wage. So it’s not structured in a manner that is supposed to allow company to lower wages. If that’s not being enforced that’s another thing.

However, as Friedman points out tech workers create jobs and keep American competitive.

You want them here working for us or in Asia working against us?

I assume you think that we can compete without them but there is little evidence to show that we’re producing enough highly trained workers domestically to compete with countries like India.  


 
A great theory… (0.00 / 0)
Unfortunately, just because “the H1B program requires that the company pay the higher of the actual wage or prevailing wage” does not mean that the company will.  And for too many years we let scofflaws wallow in their greedy muck without penalty.

Maybe that is changing….
http://crooksandliars.com/susi…

I hope so.
——————–

A quick comment on your comment “that we’re (not) producing enough highly trained workers domestically.’  I work in the software industry, predominantly on older mainframe programs written in COBOL.  There have been quite a few of our clients who have left us for software packages written in new languages.  Sadly, I’d say only half of those companies chose to retrain their older workers in the new technology.  Many chose to lay them off and outsource their IT functions to Indian or other overseas vendors.


[ Parent ]  
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