The Party of Al Smith

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Jan 23, 2010 at 18:00


In 1928, the Democratic Party nominated NY Governor Al Smith as its candidate for President--a move that had at least a few parallels with the nomination of Barack Obama 80 years later.  It was the first time a major party had nominated a Catholic to run for President, it brought new voters to the Democratic Party, and it lost a portion of white Protestants in the South.  Smith's earlier career--though far more varied and illustious than Obama's--also had some rough parallels, including a progressive reputation (with a lot more to show for it) as well as a relationship big city machine politics.  But the reason I titled this diary "The Party of Al Smith" is because of what happened after the 1932 election--one which saw him bitterly try to block FDR's nomination, although he did support FDR in the general election.

Smith's style of progressivism included working closely with business leaders, and was reflective of the policies of the First New Deal, when the National Recovery Act tried to stabilize the economy through what was basically a cartelistic approach.  It didn't work, and FDR, to his credit, realized as much.  It also got overturned by the Supreme Court.  As business leaders became more oppositional to Roosevelt, he turned left, drawing support from the rapidly-growing labor movement, and the Second New Deal--the one that's remembered to this day--was significantly more populist, and "progressive" as we generally understand the term today.  This turn of events rekindled his animosity to FDR, and Smith ended up supporting the GOP in both the 1936 and 1940 elections.  (Smith died in 1944.)

Smith was a progressive in the framework of pre-1932 politics--a period of time in which middle-class progressives were often bitterly at war with working-class socialists.  But he revolted against the embrace of populism the came with the New Deal, a period of time when progressive and socialist politics converged with one another.  For all the elitism that remained in place, and the anti-populist attitudes that John Emerson has written about here, the post-1932 Party of FDR was dramatically to the left of where it had been pre-1932, and where it would have remained if Smith had been the candidate in 1932, instead of Roosevelt.

With Obama, all that has changed.  With Obama, the Democrats are no longer the Party of FDR.  They are the Party of Al Smith--a good and decent man, by all accounts, but his politics, not so much.  He was, quite simply, out of touch with what had happened in the world after his 1928 run.  As David Mizner notes in a quick hit:

Paul Rosenberg :: The Party of Al Smith
Important poll finding out of Massachusetts (david mizner)
http://www.aflcio.org/issues/p...

    The majority of voters who said the Massachusetts economy is not so good or poor (52%) voted for Brown by 56% to 39%. However, voters who said the economy was excellent, good, or fair supported Coakley by 52% to 43%.

The extent to which Coakley's mediocrity played a role, as opposed to national factors, is, of course, impossible to pin down. I think they probably reinforced each other, creating a general impression of out-of-touchness.

Smith is a largely forgotten figure in American history today.  But if you look at the National Democratic Party, it's actually FDR who's been forgotten--his mistakes, such as trying to cut back spending and balance the budget prematurely in 1937, as much as triumphs. Al Smith, OTOH, is remembered in every breath they take, every move they make, every mistake on top of every mistake on top of every mistake on top of every mistake.


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I think we are now seeing (0.00 / 0)
Obama move more toward the FDR model.  I hope its not too late.  I don't think it is.

How Many Times.... (4.00 / 3)
...have you been married?

[ Parent ]
Been happily married (4.00 / 1)
for 15 years.  The only time.

[ Parent ]
Obama's words are now populist; I await confirming actions. (4.00 / 3)
He has always been good with words.  In terms of actions, he is still leaving the outcome of healthcare reform to the negotiations within Congress without getting actively involved.  That is the same old same old.

[ Parent ]
Interesting Comparison (4.00 / 1)
I remember first hearing about Al Smith from my grandmother when I was a boy. As the daughter of recent Irish Catholic immigrants, she used to recall crying when Smith lost to Herbert Hoover and his promise of a chicken in every pot.

Paul, do you know if there is more to this story from the personal side vis-a-vis the personal relationship between FDR and Smith? I wonder if there was some personal animosity that grew out of FDR  replacing Smith as governor after the 1928 election and then leaping above Smith within four short years to take the nomination in 1932. I would imagine there was always competition between "Roosevelt men" and "FDR men" at the state level before either entered the national scene (I imagine old guard versus big city machine?). Anyway, I'm admittedly ignorant on the nuances of this as I've not read much about Smith. From a quick scan of some sites about Smith, I see hints that there may have been some  personal "issues" with FDR that possibly moved him toward some of his alliances with big business in the 1930s. I'm curious as to whether Smith would have chosen the same path if he, and, not Roosevelt, was elected in 1932. Was Roosevelt more progressive on the state level prior to say 1930? (I don't think comparing 30-32 would be fair) Any insights you might have would be interesting.  

Demockracy.com


Sure There Was Personal Animosity (4.00 / 3)
Politics is virtually always personal, so not surprisingly that was the case here, too.  But Smith got over it enough to support FDR in the '32 general election.

Speculating on what Smith would have done seems pretty pointless to me, as that would have put him in a such a unique situation that there's really no way to say, IMHO.  There's an episode in Burn Notice where Westin lays down a rap about how when the chips are down, extremely well-trained macho men can fall apart, while a seeming nebish can turn out to have ice water in his veins.  So who can tell?  All we know is what happened, not what might have happened.

p.s.  It is worth noting that Eleanor remained on good terms with Smith.  And she, of course, was a good deal more radical than FDR.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
.... (4.00 / 1)
You are right that that would just be speculating. However, comparing Smith, who lost, to Obama, who won, is looking at two different paths. If Smith had won or Obama had lost then we could compare the two paths better. I can the see the Smith comparison valid only as a foil to FDR used to compare to Obama, both of who have actually governed. Perhaps that's what you're getting at. Interesting point about Eleanor.  

Demockracy.com


[ Parent ]
Their Politics Are Their Politics (4.00 / 1)
No matter how you slice it.

By your logic, you can't compare any two people unless they hold the same office--and presumably won by the same number of votes... or would that be percentage of votes?

Get back to me when you've figured out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Speaking of splitting with FDR ... (0.00 / 0)
didn't Huey Long split? ... because he thought FDR was too comfy with business interests?

[ Parent ]
Yes, Long split with FDR around 1933 (0.00 / 0)
and was said to be considering a challenge to FDR in 1936 from the left (at least economically). Of course he was killed in September 1935.  

Demockracy.com


[ Parent ]
As serious as this post is (4.00 / 3)
this part is seriously funny:  "is remembered in every breath they take, every move they make, every mistake on top of every mistake on top of every mistake on top of every mistake."

As Joanie Mitchell Says (4.00 / 1)
"Leave 'em laughing when you go."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Laughing and crying is the same release - Joni Mitchell (0.00 / 0)
I see the humor anothergreenbus is referring to. As you say, we haven't forgotten FDR - lots of media play comparing Obama to FDR because of the 2008-2009 Great Recession, but the gist was he's no FDR. The Democratic Party forgets with every step it takes.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905


[ Parent ]
What Did 30's Progressive Do To Move FDR? (0.00 / 0)
That's an interesting comparison, and I've totally forgotten Al Smith too.

But now I wondering - even FDR said "You're right, now make me do it."  How was that done?  


[ Parent ]
There was a LOT of talk about a third party (4.00 / 4)
It was reasonable, too. Minnesota, Louisiana, Wisconsine, and North Dakota were all third-party states or almost (in the latter two insurgents had taken over the Republican Party), and people were working on a national party. Close to 20 Senators were progressives, including Republicans and Democrats at odds with their party's leaders. And the labor mvement was militant, with unauthorized strikes closing down whole cities (including SF and Minneapolis).

Unfortunately, at this point we don't have nearly that kind of popular support. You rally need a lot of it.


[ Parent ]
Good question - I might look into that. (0.00 / 0)


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905


[ Parent ]
FDR is largely forgotten (4.00 / 5)
or, if remembered, is "remembered" the way MLK is - in a way that is devoid of any content that would give one a sense of how they actually mattered. Recapturing that history, and understanding better how we lost it, is essential.  

We do need to re-learn the lessons of the New Deal once again - the work has already been done for us, if only we would listen.  

Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison


remember the working man? (4.00 / 1)
The Democratic Party, like the Republican Party, has always been the Party of Wall Street---more or less.

I've always thought of the Democratic Party in the manner in which Jedediah Leland broached "the people" with Charles Foster Kane:

You talk about the people of the United States as though they belonged to you. When you find out they don't think they are, you'll lose interest. You talk about giving them their rights as though you could make a present of liberty. Remember the working man? You used to defend him quite a good deal. Well, he's turning into something called organized labor and you don't like that at all. And listen, when your precious underprivileged really get together - that's going to add up to something bigger than - than your privilege and then I don't know what you'll do....

FDR was willing to spread the wealth [relatively speaking] because there was a real fear that organized labor might push things a little too far in the direction of, say, socialism. Capitalism literallly had to be saved from itself. After the war, however, Kennedy and Johnson were sitting on an economic empire that allowed them in turn to practice the class struggle more generously. But with the advent of the modern day global economy the American Empire began to scale back as Wall Street started rooting around the globe for, among other things, much cheaper labor.

That's when the DLC Democrats began in earnest to triangulate with the Republicans and Wall Street to create a New World Order modelled on the negociations that took place at the Bilderberg conclaves year in and year out.

Take a wild guess as to where Obama, Geithner, Summers, Emanuel and Bernanke fits in here.

For me, a progressive is one who exposes how this works and struggles to fight it. A liberal, on the other hand, still divides the world between the Democrats [the party of the people] and the Republicans [the party of wealth].

The former practices political economy, the latter trite idealism.


In Minnesota the Democrats were mostly anti-FDR (4.00 / 3)
There was a faction of pro-FDR Democrats (called the Wolf faction after their leader), but it was the minority faction.

The Democrats had never been strong in Minnesota, and they got weaker during the 20s and 30s because Farmer Labor third party picked up all the Progressive votes. Roosevelt's supporters were mostly in the FL party, leaving the Al Smith Democrats in control of the Democratic Party. Roosevelt channelled federal jobs through the FLers.

There have always been conservatives in the Democratic Party, both Southerners and big city machine politicians. What we call Progressives have always been underdogs, and usually outsiders.

Starting about 1936 or 1937 the Democrats and the progressives started splitting, partly because of the 1938 recession caused by budget balancing, partly because of WWI and isolationism, and because of for procedural and constitutional questions. Roosevelt then relied more on the South and the machines, and during the war he didn't really have to deal with domestic issues much.

After WWII the Democrats were pretty well committed to anti-populist technocracy and machine politics. Schlesinger's "The Vital Center", Hofstadter's "The Age of Reform", and Bell et al's "The New Radicals" all supported that committment. There was a big business / big labor / big government cooperation agreement during the wa, and it held together until 1968 or so.

One of the most daunting problems we face is that the Democrats basically rejected popular movement politics and conceded populism and insurgency to the Republicans. MLK and the New Left fought against this (MLK did not get Democratic Party support until he'd almost won), but in 1968 everything exploded. Republican fake populism is disgusting, but the Democrats created the vacuum. By taking a technocratic approach, with many levels of mediators (unions, NOW, the Sierra Club, the NAACP, etc.) between voters and government. (The "Veal Pen" as Jane Hamsher calls them).

As far as vacuums go, from what I read the Tea Parties and the Massachusetts election show just that. Apparently some people voted against the Democrat because they were discouraged by the Democrats' corporate wimpiness. Not sensible, pretty desperate, but when there's a vacuum there's desperation. (Some of the teapartiers don't seem like standard conservatives either, though I doubt that anyone could work with them).

Except for Grayson and a few others (ridiculed by the pros) Democrats are unable and willing to step into the vacuum. I find that terrifying because lots of wingers are working on that hard.


Conservatives (4.00 / 1)
have had success with cultural populism -- national security, gay marriage, etc. -- but very few, Pat Buchanan, John Kasich, Huckabee a little, have managed to fashion an effective economic populist message. They're so easy to expose: their fake populism is so fake. Obama's embrace of a modest tax on Big Banks was all it took for most conservatives to show their true colors. I'm more concerned, if concerned is the word, with a Lou Dobbs kind of populism, because it's relatively authentic.  

[ Parent ]
Obama's populism is fake too. (4.00 / 4)
Unless he's changed in a big way.

[ Parent ]
Well, of course (0.00 / 0)
But his policies are less corporate and Wall Street friendly than that of mainstream, or maybe all, Republicans. That matters. For years I've been worrying and warning about conservatives filling the economic populist vacuum. Hasn't happened yet, and I think there's a reason for it.  

[ Parent ]
Historically fascists and Nazis have filled that kind of vacuum (4.00 / 4)
That's why I'm terrified. If things get worse instead of better economically, who knows what will happen?  

[ Parent ]
I hear you (4.00 / 2)
And I'm with you. My only point was that I have trouble imagining such a threat emerging from the current GOP.  

[ Parent ]
True (4.00 / 2)
The Dem leadership never has cared for populist politics.  But for quite a long time they had to embrace some of its fruits, such as they were, to give people a reason to vote for them.  That started changing under Clinton/Rubin, and now the change is accelerating significantly.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
My belief is that it's been a constant struggle (4.00 / 3)
FDR went both ways. Kennedy and LBJ went both ways. But they all could have been better than they were. They all had to deal with conservative Democrats, and Republican resistance too, but I think that they were comfortable with the choices they ended up making.

I'm just saying that there were politicians in the US that would have enacted a much more progressive agenda. They couldn't get elected, so FDR, Kennedy, and LBJ were probably the best we could have gotten. But we shouldn't assume that they were more progressive than they seemed to be; they were elected because they weren't.

That's America. War and race trump everything else.


[ Parent ]
Thank you! Way to focus! Let's keep Obama in perspective (0.00 / 0)
This too:
One of the most daunting problems we face is that the Democrats basically rejected popular movement politics and conceded populism and insurgency to the Republicans. MLK and the New Left fought against this (MLK did not get Democratic Party support until he'd almost won), but in 1968 everything exploded. Republican fake populism is disgusting, but the Democrats created the vacuum. By taking a technocratic approach, with many levels of mediators (unions, NOW, the Sierra Club, the NAACP, etc.) between voters and government. (The "Veal Pen" as Jane Hamsher calls them).


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905


[ Parent ]
Truman in 1948? (4.00 / 1)
Truman, in my opinion, ran a populist campaign in 1948.  That was the year when Hubert Humphrey gave a rousing civil rights speech at the convention and the Dixiecrats walked out.  Interestingly, it was also a year when Truman was challenged by Wallace from the left.

Truman was pushing for civil rights (the Fair Employment Practices Commission, fair housing, eventually integration  of the military) and Medicare long before LBJ.  During his era, Jackie Robinson re-integrated baseball (for the first time since a brief period in the 1880s).

He ran on bashing Congress and the support of organized labor and small farmers (a much bigger piece of the work force60 years ago.


[ Parent ]
Truman DID Run A Populist Campaign (4.00 / 1)
Because of Henry Wallace.  Which is pretty much the point--credible, effective outside pressure makes a helluva difference.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
The Truman example is very indicative (4.00 / 2)
Richard Hofstadter ("The Age of Reform", "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life", "The Paranoid Style") eally disliked Truman for his populism. He adored Stevenson's cool (but losing) intellectuality, and endorsed Stevenson's passing claim that the Democrats had become "the true conservatives" by 1952. To me this is exactly where the Democrats went bad, and my conviction (not based on data) is that every Ivy-level college indocrinates its Pol Sci  students in anti-populist, anti-progressive Hofstadterism on the first day of Pol Scie 101. I find it literally impossible to talk to Democratic political pros of the Ivy type.

Schlesinger's "The Vital Center" and Bell's "The Radical Right" played a role, too. All put together, this was a definitive repudiation of the progressives and militant unionists who had made the New Deal possible in favor of internationalist administrative elitism defined by the Federal Reserve and the military and foreign policy establishments.


[ Parent ]
Voting against a Dem in Mass "not sensible"? Not so (4.00 / 1)
I get the feeling that you have projected voting against a Dem in a single election to voting against all Dems in all elections. Certainly, you agree that it'd be foolish to conflate the two scenarios, correct?

As to the recent Massachusetts election:

before the election had come to pass (I'll quote myself):

If you want to send a message, voting for the Republican is twice as effective as staying home, at least if you let the Democratic party know that. (I get the factor of 2 since you are decreasing the Dem total by 1, but adding the Rep total by 1, if you vote; if you stay home, you have only decreased the Dem total by 1)

And if you really believe, like Dave Sirota argued, that a Brown win could make for a more progressive HCR, then again, it makes more sense to vote Republican than it does to stay home, even if you don't tell the Democratic Party what you did.

For a sharper analysis by a guy who knows some game theory, see The Flawed Logic of Supporting Coakley

I'm not suggesting that, in a normal election, Dem leaning voters should throw all of the corporatist Dems under the bus. However, IMO, this past election was a particularly  valuable opportunity to have thrown a Dem under the bus. There is only one seat in play, and furthermore it is not as late as November, so there is still a lot of time to at least change the course that Obama has foolishly set us on.

As to the ramifications going forward, we have to wait and see, but, but this article was mostly positive:

Have Progessives Voters Finally Learn to Play Multidimensional Chess?

But one day later what do we have???

Instead of a righward pivot, the President all of a sudden re-discoverd in populist genes, siding with Volcker who for all intents and purposes was sideline by Rahm and Summers. Now the "The Volcker Rule" or Glass-Steagall light is being introduced. I bet Summers will be gone by June and Giethner not far behind.

Instead of the Senate bill being ram through the House as predicted by Jason, it's stop dead and told only way forward is with a SIDECAR process that will make it MORE left leaning not right.

Lieberman and friends have been effectively neutralized since they no longer have the balance of power.

It also appears that the Dodd give away that was set to take place by undermining the independence of the Consumer Financial Protection Agency was stopped in its tracks - since he was summon to the Mount to meet the President.

Further Ben Bernake confirmation is in major shit since previously untouchable senators who were going to vote for him longer feels untouchable and Dodd blocking of the audit of the Fed may become unblocked as a condition of moving forward on that nomination.

Quite frankly, the Mass. election may have been the thing that saves Obama's presidency, but that mostly depends on how he continues to respond. At the very least, he can no longer be obtuse enough to know that the disenchantment with his phoney baloney "change you can believe in" is going to cost the Dems, big time, at the ballot box, unless there's a change in course.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Nathan Aschbacher, the author of The Flawed Logic of Supporting Coakley, a couple of days, ago. I asked him if corporation or lobbyists hired game theorists to decide how they should optimally allocate their resources, try and figure out who might be rolled, etc. He answered that he didn't know for sure, but that they'd "be stupid if they didn't".

So, I then asked him whether labor unions should hire game theorists, and, well, let's just say that the answer was long.

DemocracyABC.org
TheRealNews.Com
http://www.pdamerica.org


[ Parent ]
We'll see (4.00 / 3)
Voting for a Republican is a pretty desperate strategy. In the thirties there were liberal and even radical Republicans, whereas Republicans now are almost without exception not merely hardcore rightwingers, but also delusionary about things like global warming and as often as not, very seriously bigoted. So now we have one more of tthem, and he'll be in office for six years just like Lieberman. Senators can thumb their noses at the electorate and get away with it for a considerable period.

If the Massachusetts vote really was a strategic vote by a lot of people, rather than the kind of spasmodic "throw the bum out" voting that you often see (something that now and then will defeat a real progressive and allow a stealth creep like Brown sneak into office)

AND if the Massachusetts vote is perceived that way (and the spin doctors are really working on that)

AND if Obama has been motivated into real policy changes and not just synbolic hot air --

Then I'll grant that voting for a Republican was sensible. Though I'm suspicious of multi-dimensional chess by large groups of people working individually.

There have been times when you could play the parties off against one another (i.e. the 30s, as I've said). In fact, one guy might end up doing it (Cao in Louisiana, who'll have to unload most of his Republican baggage if he expects to be reelected).  But nowdays, bad as the Democrats are, the Republicans are much worse (even Ben Nelson is better than any Republican; the moderate Republicans are really pretty conservative).

And on top of that, voting for a Republican, even if rational, is a desperate strategy of people who aren't prepared and can't think of anything else to do.


[ Parent ]
and what should they have done? (0.00 / 0)
?

[ Parent ]
Most Just Stayed Home, But Some Did Vote For Brown (4.00 / 2)
The polling data I saw showed that about 900,000 people that showed up for Obama in 2008 just decided to stay home basically because Obama was not progressive enough.  Some did vote for Brown (I cannot remember the exact percentage), and I too would be hard pressed to pin down if this was in anger or not (but my guess would be anger).  The data looked pretty solid to me, but this is not my area of expertise.

Rahm's game plan to screw the progressives now looks rather stupid.  He's managed to put a whole mess of seats into play.  If they somehow think they can spin this result into something else - well, the Democrats will be getting beat badly in 2010.  But I guess that's no skin off Rahm's nose, just all those poor suckers in Congress with their asses hanging out in the breeze.  Maybe folks in Congress will get smart and bring Dean back into the process.


[ Parent ]
Brown will only be in there for 3 .. (0.00 / 0)
So now we have one more of them, and he'll be in office for six years just like Lieberman.

to fill out Teddy's term


[ Parent ]
The flaw in this is that Dem leaders don't understand n-dimensional chess. (0.00 / 0)
So, voting for a rethuglican will INEVITABLY (under the current circumstances) result in Dems getting the message wrong, and moving to the right. I know a bit about game theory, too, and there's no way this can be called a winning move. Remember, even in multidimensional chess, you have to look ahead MORE than a single move in order to win!

[ Parent ]
Besides the fact that you haven't spoken to the (2nd) quoted arguments exactly to the contrary (4.00 / 1)
If you actually read The Flawed Logic of Supporting Coakley, you will see that a good deal of the benefit of having Scott Brown win in no way depends on the Dems understanding n-dimensional chess:

The election of Scott Brown will, at worst, give us two years to find a progressive to take his place, which won't work at all if Coakley is elected, because there's no possible way we'll get any Democratic support to unseat her once she's the incumbent. Democrats and Progressives would have an interest in seeing Brown unseated in two-years. If we want Coakley out, we'll be going it alone, or working with the RNC.

See? Get Coakely in, then progressives have to dislodge an incumbent, against the wishes (most likely) of the Democratic party establishment.

Brown will probably not get re-elected, in spite of the advantages of incumbency, since Mass. is such a blue state. However, come time for removing Brown, the Dem establishment will be seeking progressive support, which gives progressives another opportunity to get a progressive elected.

Nathan Aschbacher goes on to also explain the benefits of removing the Democrats' 60 vote supermajority fig leaf (which also does not demand that they understand n-dimensional chess):

I say, "at worst," because while it's possible the Democrats would move further right to secure Brown's vote (or some other Republican's) on a piece of legislation, it wouldn't be because they had to (re: ending the filibuster), it would be because they have no problem moving right, and using Brown (or some other Republican... Olympia Snowe says,"Hi.") as cover; read: scapegoat. The only other scenario (assuming the sincerity of the Democratic agenda) is deadlock, and quite frankly with all I've seen the Democrats do in the last 3 years, deadlock would be a welcome respite.

The empirical reality is that the Democratic lead Senate is more interested in maintaining self-imposed procedural rules than pursuing a Democratic agenda. Quite literally the Democratic leadership is stating with its actions that the faux-filibuster is more important than healthcare reform, financial market reform, civil-liberties expansion, etc. Brown or Coakley doesn't change that at all.

And again Aschbacher amplifies the advantage to progressives in 2012:

The idea that the election of Brown would get in the way of "halfway good" legislation is bankrupt, as it fatally supposes that there'd be a will to move "halfway good" legislation without him (or some other 41st Republican). At least with a Coakley loss today, there will be two years to find someone better, rather than being stuck trying to undermine the Democratic campaign machine when it comes time to unseat her.


DemocracyABC.org
TheRealNews.Com
http://www.pdamerica.org


[ Parent ]
meta, I see the upsides of the Coakley desaster. (0.00 / 0)
If you look at some of my older comments, you'll find that I argued that forcing the Dems out of the supermajority could have positive effects. However, my point is, why did progressives have to vote for that horrible asshole Brown to achieve that? This only sent the wrong signal to the Dems, and (regarding the clear win for Brown), staying at home or writing "Ted Kennedy", "Ralph Nader", "Noam Chomsky" or whomever in would have done the trick, too.

Ok, maybe it's more emotional than rational, but I really hate to see our folks voting for a hypocritical asshole of a right winger.


[ Parent ]
In spite of that "wrong signal" (0.00 / 0)
Two days after the Mass. election, Obama still shared the platform with Volcker, who is no longer going to be on the outside. Wanna bet 5 cents that Obama was even happier that he was going to empower Volcker, rather than less happy, as a result of the Mass. election? Wanna bet 10 cents that, as a result of the Mass. election, Obama will fight harder for Volcker's proposals, and sell them more enthusiastically?

Writing in "Nader" or "Chomsky" would have also sent a message, but would have risked throwing the election to Coakely. If one really believes that, when all is said and done, a Coakely defeat served progressive purposes better than a Coakely victory, the conclusion about the optimal way to cast a vote is inescapable. So, yes, I think your introspection is valuable - your thinking is being colored by emotion.

DemocracyABC.org
TheRealNews.Com
http://www.pdamerica.org


[ Parent ]
Even If N=0... (4.00 / 1)
The flaw in this is that Dem leaders don't understand n-dimensional chess.

they never get the point.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
or (0.00 / 0)
The elected dems could reason that a Coakley win was confirmation that Rahm is right. And continue down his path to rape-public-can heaven where everything is roses and money for betrayal showers down without consequences.

Government by organized money is no better than government by organized mob..... FDR

[ Parent ]
Yeah, ok, that's a point, too, reggie. (0.00 / 0)
And really, no misunderstanding, I'm not that unhappy that Coakley lost. I'm just not happy that this means that the idiot Brwon will be in Senate, and that some good progressives went to th lenght of voting fo him. Looking at the results, Coakley prolly still wouldn't have made it if our folks would have written in "Howard Dean" instead. And that message would have been much clearer!

[ Parent ]
On Celebrating FDR and The New Deal.. (0.00 / 0)
..the New Deal, a period of time when progressive and socialist politics converged with one another.

However nice it may feel to wax nostalgic for the good old days of The New Deal, are you sure that you want to be clamoring for the re-birth of an era of (by your own words) socialist politics right now? If electric blue Massachusetts can't find a way to support an agenda that can now only be described as 'progressive-lite', in what THC-induced fantasy would you expect the larger, far redder country to go along with anything resembling the bludgeoning statism espoused by FDR? Enjoy your fantasies but America has had its sniff of ideocratic progressivism (and a minimalist sniff it has been at that) and Virginia, New Jersey and Mass. are only the beginning of its resounding, unambiguous verdict.

Yeah, Bludgeoning MILLIONS of People Into Paying Jobs Would Be A Sure Loser (4.00 / 2)
Oh, wait....

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Paul, do you think it makes sense tying to have discussions... (0.00 / 0)
...with guys like MinnRick or zugzugzug? They have never shown any sympathy for progressive values, so isn't it totally unlikely they can be convinced of anything? Really, aren't there just a distraction from the issues we discuss here, and a (probably deliberate) useless annoyance? Seriously, Paul.

No misunderstanding, I don't want to choke discussions, and I know this is not my blog, but where is the sense in wasting time to answer those guy's regular sniping, again and again and again?


[ Parent ]
Discussions? (4.00 / 1)
No.

Exemplary come-backs you can share with your friends?

Yes.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Read The Poll Results (4.00 / 6)
Research 2000 Massachusetts Poll Results

500 Obama voters who did NOT vote in the special election were asked one set of questions. 500 Obama voters who DID vote -- and voted for Republican Scott Brown -- were asked another set of questions. Each has a margin of error of 4.5%.

2774 Obama voters from 2008 who voted Tuesday were reached -- of which 2274 (82%) voted for Democrat Martha Coakley and 500 (18%) voted against her.

(Research 2000 also does polling for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Lexington Herald-Leader, Fort Wayne News Sentinel, South Bend Tribune, and Reno Gazette-Journal, and dozens of other media outlets. They did a Virginia 2009 post-election poll of Obama voters for the PCCC, which is located here. )

Sample Figures

OBAMA VOTERS WHO VOTED FOR SCOTT BROWN:

Men: 271 (54%)
Women: 229 (46%)
Democrats: 36 (7%)
Republicans: 41 (8%)
Independents: 423 (85%)
OBAMA VOTERS WHO DID NOT VOTE:

Men: 254 (51%)
Women: 246 (49%)
Democrats: 447 (89%)
Republicans: 19 (4%)
Independents: 34 (7%)

DEMOCRATS LEARNING WRONG LESSON FROM MASSACHUSETTS?
EVEN SCOTT BROWN VOTERS WANT THE PUBLIC OPTION, WANT DEMOCRATS TO BE BOLDER
"In an election between Scott Brown and the public option, the public option would have won."
- Charles Chamberlain, political director of Democracy for America

HEALTH CARE BILL OPPONENTS THINK IT "DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH"

by 3 to 2 among Obama voters who voted for Brown
by 6 to 1 among Obama voters who stayed home
(18% of Obama supporters who voted supported Brown.)

VOTERS OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORT THE PUBLIC OPTION

82% of Obama voters who voted for Brown
86% of Obama voters who stayed home
OBAMA VOTERS WANT DEMOCRATS TO BE BOLDER

57% of Brown voters say Obama "not delivering enough" on change he promised
49% to 37% among voters who stayed home
PLUS: Obama voters overwhelming want bold economic populism from Democrats in 2010.

900,000 people that voted for Obama in 2008 DID NOT VOTE.  They stayed home because Obama is not progressive enough.

But don't let me rain on your parade - the voters will do that.


[ Parent ]
This is clearly the most useful reading of the Massachusetts 2010 entrails; (4.00 / 1)
but BHO and both parties' leadership will variously either 1) blindly fail to interpret correctly or 2) cynically misconstrue willfully.

[ Parent ]
Come on, MinnRick, can't you pls troll elsewhere? (0.00 / 0)
One comment after another, nothing but disdain for progressive politics! You certainly noticed this is a progressive blog, right? So, I can only conclude you do this deliberately, to annoy people. No healthy discussion can come out of your nonsense. Really, go to The Moderate Voice, or some other blog where they take rethuglican crap for serious!


[ Parent ]
the business plot (4.00 / 1)
Wasn't Al Smith also supposed to be the new dictator in the "business plot"?

I guess we'll know we're in trouble if Obama suggests a "Secretary of General Affairs"


Al Smith and FDR and Frances Perkins (0.00 / 0)
Franes perkins was the real "idea woman" behind Al Smith's governorship and FDR's presidency. What good was done by FDR was thought up and pushed by her. Same for Al Smith as Governor of New York.

Obama has no Frances Perkins. Instead he has PR advisors and campaign managers.


Perkins Was Certainly A Major Force (4.00 / 2)
She wasn't seduced by the notion of being the first female cabinet member.  When FDR asked her to join his administration, she made him agree to back her agenda before saying "yes."

Still, she'd be first to acknowledge that she couldn't have done it alone.  She'd spent her lifetime working, in part, to help build and empower an entire infrastructure of allies.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Al Smith jealous of FDR? (4.00 / 1)
Interesting Comparison raises the issue of the relationship between Al smith and FDR, asking if there was some some animosity.

Some animosity would be a mild term for the bitterness Al Smith showed towrd FDR and many others. I had family members who knew Smith and some who were active in the Bronx Democratic Club, the progressive club responsible for getting Al Smith, FDR and John Kennedy nominated. Smith and the rest of NY wanted to back the Democratic front runner, McAdoo, a Texas racialist. The Bronx Club worked tirelessly for FDR., despite some nasty threats. The rest is history. By the way the Bronx Club loved Truman's integration of  the armed forces. It took in Manhattan blacks because they could not join the Manhattan Democratic club. Hulan Jack was elected the first black Manhattan borough president, but he was a member of the Bronx club.


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