The "progressive" ideological divide

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Jun 06, 2010 at 12:00


Back in mid-December, Ed Kilgore wrote a piece "Taking Ideological Differences Seriously".  The piece was useful in that it argued that differences among "progressives" were not simply differences over political strategy, but also over ideology.  It's a pretty basic idea, but one it seems that most folks have paid far too little attention to.  

However, the piece ran into trouble when trying to describe the ideological differences.  Indeed, it never even attempted to describe both sides of the divide. Rather it focused on the so-called "Third Way" and on distinguishing it from conservative approaches. Chris linked to it precisely for this reason. But because it fails to even attempt to describe both sides, this approach is more justificatory than explanatory--though it certainly does explain how Third Way types would like to be seen.  The explanation itself is presented in terms of policy mechanisms--specifically, the Third Way "strategy of deploying regulated and subsidized private sector entities to achieve progressive policy results" But this completely avoids the more fundamental question: what about differences in ends, not just means?  What if one person's "progressive policy results" are another person's "not so much"?

I first tried to do that myself, by responded to Kilgore's piece with a diary "What's Wrong With The Third Third Way" which described how historically this was the third such "compromise" between naked capitalism and an oppositional alternative.  The first "Third Way" was democratic socialism, the second "Third Way" was the market-supporting "liberal" welfare state in the typology of Gosta Epsing-Anderson's The Three Worlds of Welfare Capitalism, and the third "Third Way" is--despite frequent disavowals--largely a repurposing of the market-supporting welfare state for politically conservative ends, but with
"competent" centrist Democrats in charge.   I'm afraid that this analysis was too far-flung for some.  So I want to take another stab, first at providing a more down-to-earth set of test-points, and only after that by presenting yet another grand vision sort of overview.

Here, again is Kilgore's central presentation of Obama's "Third Way":

To put it simply, and perhaps over-simply, on a variety of fronts (most notably financial restructuring and health care reform, but arguably on climate change as well), the Obama administration has chosen the strategy of deploying regulated and subsidized private sector entities to achieve progressive policy results. This approach was a hallmark of the so-called Clintonian, "New Democrat" movement, and the broader international movement sometimes referred to as "the Third Way," which often defended the use of private means for public ends. (It's also arguably central to the American liberal tradition going back to Woodrow Wilson, and is even evident in parts of the New Deal and Great Society initiatives alongside elements of the "social democratic" tradition, which is characterized by support for publicly operated programs in key areas).

Does It Work?

The problem here, as I see it, is that Kilgore is avoiding the central concern for populist (as opposed to, say, corporatist) progressives: Does it get the job done?  I'm sure that Obamaphiles would say, "Yes it does!" but that only brings us down to the real bottom line: what exactly is the job?  When it comes to healthcare reform, there's plenty of room for disagreement, but a fairly good starting point might be "reducing overall system costs to something close to the OECD median while improving overall health outcomes to something close to the OECD media."  There's nothing particularly ideological about this formulation, at least in the commonplace meaning of the word, which Third Way types like to use in dismissing populist progressives.   It's just (a) quite commonsensical, and (b) rendered in measurable terms that ought to appeal to the purported wonkiness of Third Way types.

Paul Rosenberg :: The "progressive" ideological divide
This doesn't require a single-payer approach, since not all OECD countries use such an approach.  For my part, one could be completely agnostic about what mechanisms to use.  But one should be realistic about path-dependency constraints--as any true "realistic" policy wonk should agree. This is why folks tend to gravitate to single-payer: because it builds on an already-existing long-functioning American institution: Medicare.  While we theoretically could rely on regulated private insurers, their culture-unlike that of insurers in Switzerland, for example--is just too deeply ingrained in doing things in ways that would never allow anything like the cost savings we need.  Such path-dependency logic also explains the genesis and logic of the public option: It was conceived by Jacob Hacker as a pathway toward single-payer that took account of those tens of millions of privately insured individuals who are more or less satisfied with their existing private insurance.  The public option thus conceived is not designed to "keep private insurers honest"--if only for the simple reason that "honest" private insurers in the current American environment are uninterested in and incapable of driving down costs to OEDC median levels while also improving outcomes to OECD median levels.

This is, in short, a perfect rational, pragmatic argument for single-payer and/or the public option as a transition to single-payer.  And it shows that the difference with Obama's "Third Way" logic revolves around having substantially different goals.  Indeed, it drives home the  fact that Obama's goals are, in fact, much more aligned with his plan's historical roots in the Heritage Foundation's anti-Hillarycare plan, as well as Mitt Romney's Massachusetts plan.

The same conclusion is even more readily obvious when it comes to climate change.  The Obama targets fall far short of attaining the sort of drastic reductions that the best science tells us is necessary. Both the amount and the speed of CO2 reductions fall far short of what is needed.  Although I've argued that cap-and-trade is deeply flawed,it's not so much from an ideological perspective as it is from a pragmatic one: I just don't think it will work, because it's too easily subverted.  As with healthcare reform, there is an argument over means, but that argument is grounded in a more fundamental argument about what the ends should be. It's not the means in themselves that I object to, and I very much doubt that most other progressive populists would object either, if the means favored by Obama & his Third Way cohorts were directed toward achieving the ends we have in mind.  That might not be possible, of course, but once again, that is a pragmatic problem, not an "irrationally" "ideological" one.

If anything, the situation with financial reform is even more blatantly contradictory to Kilgore's portrayal. The primary thrust of progressive populists is that we need to reinstate past practices, in particular regulations (as opposed to state ownership) that had worked for decades, and prohibit risky activities whose consequences no one can foresee. Even the supposedly radical proposal to "break up the big banks", the ones judged as "too big to fail" is nothing more than an appeal to use classical anti-trust regulations, the sort that even Howard Taft employed 100 years ago.  The only way to make Kilgore's purported ideological gap appear in this case is focus on "nationalization"--which was only ever a temporary emergency proposal, just as it had been during the Great Depression.

Things do look different, however, when we look at what progressive populists have suggested regarding home mortgages. Here there were suggestions for direct federal action.  But this wasn't a case of government action rather than private action.  It wasn't intruding on the private market.  It was a case of doing something that private markets had no interest whatsoever in doing. And that gets to the real nub of the difference between the Third Way and progressive populists:  the Third Way ideology can only think in terms that are defined by market relationships. This is the basic background context for all Third Way thinking.  Progressive populists, on the other hand, can think beyond the marketplace box.  They can think in terms of social need, and then look around for ways to meet that need--be they market or non-market methods.

A Big-Picture, Identity-Based View

One thing all the above examples have in common is that "Third Way" approaches don't try to fundamentally challenge the existing status quo.  Indeed, preserving it is one of their top priorities, the better to try to avoid bitter political fights, and produce "bipartisan solutions". While Kilgore tried to focus on the means, it was actually this focus on ends that produces the clearest and most insightful dividing line. If American health insurance companies could be tamed to act like well-mannered and well-managed regulated public utilities, the way Swiss health insurance companies do, then populist progressives might very well come to support that approach.  Even more to the point, Medicare for All does not entail government hospitals or doctors.  It simply gets rid of counter-productive rent-seeking insurance monopolies that have nothing to do with the actual business of providing health care, except to make it much more expensive and less effective and efficient.

All this suggests that an analysis similar to that of Akerlof and Kranton in Identity Economics could be applied here. As I described in my diary introducing their ideas, Identity economics--a major breakthrough? , there is a rational basis for oppositional identities in minority communities.  Obama's own personal history helps illustrate how this example is relevant to politics more broadly.  In that diary, I wrote:

One illuminating example they explore is why some members of racial minorities behave in seemingly self-destructive ways. This explanation is particularly powerful because it shows how persistent forms of "colorblind racism" and institutional racism create a cost for minorities trying to live according (white) mainstream ideals--something that even very successful blacks experience, for example--and how this in turn creates the condition in which such evidently self-destructive behavior takes place....Being in opposition to the dominant culture makes sense to them, not just in terms of a single economic choice, but in terms of adopting an entire identity, a way of being in the world share with others and creating a shared oppositional "ideal type" in contrast to the mainstream culture's "ideal type" that they have no hope of ever living up to.  Behavior that makes no sense in terms of the rejected, unattainable ideal type is perfectly sensible in term of the oppositional ideal type, which allows them to gain utility (satisfaction) from activities that they can do well at....

The authors go on to show how different conditions will lead to different sorts of population mixes--all of it quite rational in terms of two contrasting identity modes....

Of course, there is also the possibility represented by the appeal of groups such as the Nation of Islam, which construct a different kind of oppositional identity.  (The same can also be said of black liberation theology--such as practiced by Reverend Jeremiah Wright--which is obviously much more threatening to the white power structure, precisely because its an oppositional identity that allows space for whites to also assume an oppositional identity as well, just as the Civil Rights Movement did.)  It's highly significant that such widely observed and studied behavior can be explained by a relatively simple economic model of individual choice, provided that just two different identities are included.

My inclusion of Jeremiah Wright in that passage was not incidental or accidental.  Social revolutions-such as the Abolitionist Movement, or the Civil Rights Movement-are crucially dependent on successfully reshaping the nature of oppositional identities, and the forms of effective personal and political action that flow from such identities. Black liberation theology is a continuation of the religious side of the Civil Rights Movement that preserves and continues to develop a particular subset of those oppositional identities. At one point in his political career, beginning well before he first ran for office, Barack Obama found a place for himself by embracing these oppositional identities. But when he chose to publicly repudiate Wright, he chose to do so by adopting a conventional caricature that profoundly mis-represented Wright's viewpoint--a viewpoint that is virtually identical with that of Martin Luther King.  Here's Wright on Bill Moyers Journal, explaining the context of his sermon that was used to demonize him and attack Barack Obama--the context is that of the Hebrew prophets of old:

BILL MOYERS: Yeah.  But talk a little bit about that. The prophets loved Israel.  But they hated the waywardness of Israel.  And they were calling Israel out of love back to justice, not damning--

REVEREND WRIGHT: Exactly.  

BILL MOYERS: Not damning Israel. Right?

REVEREND WRIGHT: Right.  They were saying that God was--in fact, if you look at the damning, condemning, if you look at Deuteronomy, it talks about blessings and curses, how God doesn't bless everything.  God does not bless gang-bangers.  God does not bless dope dealers.  God does not bless young thugs that hit old women upside the head and snatch their purse. God does not bless that.  God does not bless the killing of babies.  God does not bless the killing of enemies.  And when you look at blessings and curses out of that Hebrew tradition from the book of Deuteronomy, that's what the prophets were saying, that God is not blessing this. God does not bless it- bless us. And when we're calling them, the prophets call them to repentance and to come back to God. If my people who are called by my name, God says to Solomon, will humble themselves and pray, seek my faith and turn from their wicked ways. God says that wicked ways, not Jeremiah Wright, then will I hear from heaven.

Here's the clip itself:

REVEREND JEREMIAH WRIGHT: Where governments lie, God does not lie. Where governments change, God does not change. And I'm through now. But let me leave you with one more thing. Governments fail. The government in this text comprised of Caesar, Cornelius, Pontius Pilate - the Roman government failed. The British government used to rule from East to West. The British government had a Union Jack. She colonized Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad and Hong Kong. Her navies ruled the seven seas all the way down to the tip of Argentina in the Falklands, but the British government failed. The Russian government failed. The Japanese government failed. The German government failed. And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to treating her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in internment prison camps. When it came to treating citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters, put them on auction blocks, put them in cotton fields, put them in inferior schools, put them in substandard housing, put them in scientific experiments, put them in the lowest paying jobs, put them outside the equal protection of the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into position of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing God bless America? No, no, no. Not God bless America; God damn America! That's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating her citizen as less than human. God damn America as long as she keeps trying to act like she is God and she is supreme!

And here's Martin Luther King:

It is time for all people of conscience to call upon America to come back home. Come home, America. Omar Khayyam is right: "The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on." I call on Washington today. I call on every man and woman of good will all over America today. I call on the young men of America who must make a choice today to take a stand on this issue. Tomorrow may be too late. The book may close. And don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as his divine, messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with judgment, and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, "You're too arrogant! And if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I'll place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God."

The Hebrew prophets represent an oppositional identity of tremendous power.  And in order to become President of the United States, Barack Obama made a very deliberate decision to mock and misrepresent them and their present-day incarnations. And that mockery and misrepresentation remains at the core of his politics to this day.  It is, indeed, a crucial part of the Third Way package.

Okay, that's the identity part.  But what does it have to do with economics?  That's simple:  the model that Akerlof and Kranton provide is one that revolves around choices of activities.  The example they use in describing the black community in their initial example is "working" vs. "not-working".  The Nation of Islam creates a different oppositional identity,  so that working is working for Allah, and for the community defined in terms of their understanding of Islam.  Black Liberation Theology makes a different oppositional appeal, which is to the remaking of America, just as the Hebrew prophets called for the remaking of Israel.  And the promise here is an entirely inclusive one--it's not just for the black community, as the Nation of Islam is.  It is centered in the black community, but not limited to it--as so many other "progressives" tried to limit Martin Luther King when he spoke out against the Vietnam War.  It is this difference in identities that stands at the very center of the divide between the Third Way "progressives" and populist progressives.  The former wants to work within the system in its own terms.  The later wants to transform the system to bring it into line with it's own professed highest values.

Which side are you on?

Answer that question, and you say who you are.  Say who you are, and you set the parameters of what guides every choice you make. That's where morality and economics become one, once again.


Tags: , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
"Corporate progressive" is an oxymoron. (4.00 / 7)
Kilgore knows this. Even he isn't that stupid. How can a CEO of an authoritarian hierarchy possibly be "progressive?" They can't in principle.

You chose a good passage of his for the block quote. All his internal contradictions are laid out plainly, for anyone who understands the concepts he's laying out. He's defending neo-liberalism, not progressivism. But he knows that his job is to mischaracterize neo-liberalism as "progressivism," lest the Democratic base get a clue and take a powder.

After partaking in Kilgore's propaganda for almost twenty years now, I don't know why anyone takes him seriously--but people do, so I suppose he has to be addressed. The ideological divide he alludes to isn't between two groups of progressives. It's between neo-liberals and progressives. So his job is to do nothing but muddy the waters, in order to hinder some folks ability to make even basic distinctions. The GOP propagandists do the same thing all the time with their own base.

It's how you throttle dissent within the apparat and thusly within the base itself.

Kilgore's use of the Clintonian canard of "using the private sector to public means" is so transparent, anyone should be able to see what this is about: destroying the commons. What he has yet to defend is how it's somehow progressive to destroy the means of democracy, since the commons are where democracy happens.

Kilgore is an inveterate liar and should be seen as such.

An Obama victory will bring intense pressure on the US antiwar and social justice movements to accept a Democratic administration for all its faults. If that happens, domestic resistance to rapacious America will fall silent. -- John Pilger, May 2008


Where's the "third" in his way? (4.00 / 2)

 All I see is warmed-over supply-side economics. Exactly the ideology that has wrecked our economy.

 What attracts people who self-identify as Democrats to such an ideology, anyway? It doesn't make sense.

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
It's The False Promises (4.00 / 3)
There's a long history of liberalism promising a way that we can all "just get along". Considering that religious tolerance--the vanguard of modern liberalism--provided a way to escape from the bloodiest and most protracted wars that Christian Europe had ever seen, it seemed like a pretty good idea at the time.

The Third Way is simply feeding off of this old promise.  It's not a bad idea in itself.  It's just a very bad implementation, because it fails to take seriously the reality of the oppositional forces, and why they are what they are.  It is, in short, a fairy tale or a cartoon, devoid of complexity and depth.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yes, false promises. (4.00 / 4)
Third Way isn't so much an ideological construct itself as a way of selling neo-liberalism to people who would normally be opposed to it. It can't promise anything except lies, since it's just about messaging and propaganda more generally. It's Reaganism for Democrats, couched in liberal-sounding promises which have never been kept and never will be kept. Because they can't.

There's no "there" there. Audacity of Hope anyone? It would be difficult indeed to come up with an emptier meme than that. And yet, people suck it up.

This is what American politics has been reduced to. It's all about repackaging yesterday's toxic waste and calling it Third Way or some other useless thing. New and Improved, Now With More Brainwashing Goodness!

An Obama victory will bring intense pressure on the US antiwar and social justice movements to accept a Democratic administration for all its faults. If that happens, domestic resistance to rapacious America will fall silent. -- John Pilger, May 2008


[ Parent ]
Perhaps, but... (4.00 / 2)
You write:

It's not a bad idea in itself.  It's just a very bad implementation, because it fails to take seriously the reality of the oppositional forces, and why they are what they are.  It is, in short, a fairy tale or a cartoon, devoid of complexity and depth.

Now, as far as this goes, I suppose this is a fair description. But this particular comment implicitly frames Third Way thinking as (perhaps) well-meaning, but hopelessly naive, not serious, cartoonish, blind to the reality of entrenched and unmoving oppositional forces.  This presumes they believe they are the Rodney King of modern politics, bringing two implacable foes together to the middle.

This may be true of a few of them, but I don't really view them that way. After knocking back a few at the 19th hole at the exclusive local Country Club they strike an entirely different pose. The mask is removed. Instead, I think they join their right wing brethren in demeaning and dismissing the hoi poloi, chuckling at those who cling to the binky of bipartisanship. In your own manner you make this point elsewhere and I think it is the correct point.

I view them as the ideological managers, if you will, or the masters of agitprop, for the ruling order. They are the right wing, but the ones that are skilled in the siren song of compromise, spreading false belief in the potential of reconciliation and bipartisanship for the purpose of disarming and confusing the left/progresssive forces and buttressing the position of the ruling order, not because they are confused about the political landscape. They are acting but in defense of their own privilege and that of the others with them on the right.

(dangers of generalization apply)

Did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts? Hot ashes for trees? Hot air for a cool breeze? And cold comfort for change?


[ Parent ]
Clarification (4.00 / 1)
When I wrote:

The Third Way is simply feeding off of this old promise.  It's not a bad idea in itself.

"It's not a bad idea" was meant to refer to the old promise, not to the Third Way.

I was intending to stress that while I firmly believe there is no progress without struggle, it's also true that liberalism has a record of solving what are intractable battles to the death for the conservative mind. And that promise of rational reconcilliation is not one we should take lightly, just because Third Way types pervert it so profoundly.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The magisterium forsakes redemption (4.00 / 1)
Wanting someone dead along with all his issue, wanting his house pulled down, his name chiseled off monuments, and salt plowed into the soil of his ruined vineyard just isn't the liberal way. Even in Martin Luther King's fiercest Jeremiads, there was always an implicit promise: Remove the boot from our necks, treat us like human beings, and we'll sit down and break bread together. Fail to do that, and not only will we fight you, but God will turn his face from you.

I don't think they teach anything that simple in technocrat school. A pity.


[ Parent ]
They Should At Least Teach "Ozymandias" (4.00 / 1)
It's such a well-crafted poem.  And just 14 lines!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Ideological vs Identity struggle? (0.00 / 0)
I think the corporate vs populist framework is the strongest way to debunk the Third Way ideology; their use of the word "progressive" is just cover to pretend the latter when all evidence points to the former.

Your discussion of means and ends wrt health insurance reform is one example, and gives us a very clear view of the hypocrisy at work in the DLC/Third Way ideology: "We have to save the insurance companies, even subsidize them; who cares if that means more expensive health care". Single Payer is not even permitted to be part of the discussion, because (by definition) it means elimination of the insurance companies.

Litmus test two: the protection of big banks and bigger financial institutions combined with the absence of populist reforms, such as mortgage protection, and credit reforms to help consumers.

Litmus test three: Extremely minimal keynesian response to the economic slump, which will delay the recovery and maintain unemployment high. The only possible explanation to pursue a weak fiscal response is ideological; from the populist standpoint, how stupid is it to avoid delivering jobs and growth to your base?!

Wrong Way Identity Politics?

As I commented yesterday, the Third Way seems to be about ideology and political power. I still don't really see the identity politics angle, because I can't for the life of me figure out who in the public really identifies with the Third Way and this fake definition of "progressive". I mean, I understand how small-town business people can identify with Capitalism and captains of industry, and how that channels into the Republican Party and Conservative ideology.

With the take-over of the Republicans by the extremist crazies, maybe these these calls for bipartisanship are an attempt to merge the moderate half of the Republican Party with the Conservative half of the Democratic Party.

But even here, where is the "identity politics" on the part of these "moderate Republicans", and who are the Democratic Interest groups friendly to the Third Way.

The only way I make sense of it is if the Identity Politics we're talking about goes the other way. I mean, are we just talking about politicians, technocrats, Blue Dogs, Conservadems, etc, trying to attach their identity to Big Business, the upper class and powerful US interest groups?

I sure as hell don't see a groundswell of public support for Obama's call to bipartisanship.

Thus, when you talk about an "oppositional identity politics", this can only be relevant to Third Way ideologues in the "negation". That is, populist ideologies, labor unions and the Liberal Half of the Democratic Party are the real threat to Third Way politicians, which we see playing out in the Halter-Lincoln Senate primary in Arkansas.


Think of OBAMA's Identity, If That Will Help (4.00 / 2)
Obama is a quintessential example of successful black assimilation into the upper reaches of the corporate mainstream.  And in this, he serves as an exemplar of how identity figures into Third Way politics.

This is not offered in opposition or contrast to an ideological analysis.  Rather, I think that identity economics helps provide a way to better connect ideology and identity.  The narratives of things like "hard work" and "discipline", as well as "bipartisanship" are all part of the package that Obama not only buys into himself, but then turns around and markets to others who would ordinarily be skeptical, at the very least.  And he sells this with his own recycling and reinvigoration of past narratives ala everyone from Booker T. Washington to Bill Cosby, plus the added psuedo-progressive narrative of "the Joshua Generation" (as opposed to the more realistic "Golden Calf Generation").

My broader point: as oppositional narratives are increasingly marginalized in various ways, ideological space is redefined, and this is done so largely through identity--through public dramas and narratives involving various public figures performing as prototypes for understanding the world at large.

This should not be divorced from the sort of political history background that John Emerson provides in his (recently returned) series of diaries about the past history of populist and progressive struggles.  Indeed, I would argue that there is far more continuity in terms of the sociology of political power than there is in terms of "ideology" alone.  Ideological details can be rejiggered over time with relatively little perturbation to power structures.  Indeed, such rejiggering can be undertaken precisely to ensure as little perturbation as possible.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Excellent analysis, Paul. (0.00 / 0)
This especially:

as oppositional narratives are increasingly marginalized in various ways, ideological space is redefined, and this is done so largely through identity--through public dramas and narratives involving various public figures performing as prototypes for understanding the world at large.

In the long run, the narrative and "public dramas" may be as important as a specific policy on a specific issue.

You seem correct on this narrative of Obama's, but there is another.  With all the flaws that exist, Obama presents a narrative of government as a positive force.  Yes, there is a lot of using private to do public good, but there is some talk of government regulation as a good in and of itself.  


[ Parent ]
State vs National Politics. Case Study. (4.00 / 4)
Here in Colorado, the DLC and Third Way activists have long been dominant in the Democratic Party political establishment. The Party base has a strong Liberal component, and the Party platform repeatedly calls for Single Payer HIR, but when it comes to the leading politicians, most are moderate, business, if not corporate-oriented politicians.

You could argue that this demonstrates a success for the Third Way political strategy, i.e. "Vote for us; we're not wack-job Republicans".

I have to agree somewhat; they came into prominence during a period when Colorado politics was dominated by (pre-wack-job) Conservative Republicans and Western-style, anti-tax Libertarians in the Reagan mold. Even as (or as a result of) the rise of the Christian right, this moderate strain of Democrat succeeded in taking majorities in the Colorado House, Senate, Governor and both Senators. This year should complete the sweep of state-wide positions.

That sounds complementary to the Third Way, and in fact, I mostly like Governor Bill Ritter and his soon-to-be replacement John Hickenlooper, Michael Bennett and his nemesis Andrew Romanoff (long-time DLC member who should get a lot of credit for the Democratic return to power).

But, aside from personal liberties (social libertarianism?)  they aren't really all that progressive. They have been most timid to confront Corporate interests, significantly avoiding any regulation of Health Insurance Companies, and shutting down popular efforts pushing for Health Insurance Reform. Most significantly, they have been cowed by the fear of tax increases, and the belief that Government shouldn't act in a populist economic way. Colorado is a relatively well-off state with very low taxes, meaning our schools, highways, social infrastructure is doing poorly.

The tea-bagger wack-jobs, Libertarian wack-jobs and Christian wack-jobs are accelerating the destruction of the Republican Party in the state. Age and racial demographics will certainly complete the job.

Which is too bad, because, Republican failure gives a lot of open field to this moderate, non-populist, economically conservative strain of Democratic politician.

At the state level competent technocrats constrained by a low tax base might be acceptable, or at least damn-better-than-Texas. But apply this to the national stage, and we get a disastrous political result: anti-worker, anti-middle class, pro-Corporate, pro-Super-wealthy.


[ Parent ]
It seems to me that this divide in Colorado party politics is true in a lot of places. (0.00 / 0)
I understand, in large part due to your analysis, Paul, the reason that the professionals, both the politicians and the consultants, are third Third Way.  

What I wonder, though, is how they keep control of the party structure at so many local and state levels when the grassroots base is usually progressive.

Paul, could you share some thought on this?  I would appreciate a brief response right now, but I'd rather an article from you.  Have you written one already addressing this?  Thanks.

Educate, Agitate, Organize, Mobilize, Act!


[ Parent ]
I Think It's A Pretty Complicated Set of Reasons (4.00 / 3)
And I think that John Emerson's diary yesterday, continuing his historical explorations of populist and progressive challenges to party orthodoxy are a good place to start, in part because they teach us that there's nothing new to our current situation, and because they show something of the diversity of factors involved.

One thing's for certain, though.  It's much easier to raise money to fight an electoral battle (which then tends toward working in the same old grooves with only minor variations) than it is to raise money to push on an important issue, or develop alliances for battles of a larger scope.  So the ease of securing reasources is a recurrent bias that's alway there playing some sort of role, no matter what else may be going on.

Dean's idea of the 50-state strategy was remarkable in part because it broke with that tendency, however modestly.  And it was still far too radical for Obama.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The Will to Power: The Identity Element in DLC-ers (0.00 / 0)

is perhaps the personal need to be the winner - or at least among the winners - at all costs.  It is the identity element shared by Obama and Rove.  It has more to do with the will to power and with personal enrichment than anything else, and actually nothing to do with good governance.  Their respective alliances with nominally opposing political parties are merely means to achieving their desired ends, as is their mutual cozying up to Big Business, the upper class and powerful US interest groups.



[ Parent ]
I Think It's More Subtle Than That (4.00 / 4)
For the DLC, as opposed to Rove, etc.  I don't think it's the will to power so much as the fear of non-existence.  They lack any sense of an alternative identity they could have. If they were not relevant in the terms dictated by the powers that be, then they would cease to exist as they understand things.

This entails an acceptance of the system created through the will to power.  But it's clearly a junior partner's philosophical position.  Call it the "will to access to power."

Pretty small beer.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
"The former wants to work within the system in its own terms. The later wants to transform the system to bring it into line with it's own professed highest values." (4.00 / 1)
You have captured exactly why there are people, on an individual basis, choose to be more radical than progressive populists on a variety of issues and should consider doing so more collectively.  

Because the values which progressive populists strive for, in some ways, are determined systemically ('its own professed highest values'), they are inherently limited against what could be the most fundamental change possible.  In other words, are we truly independent, to the extent that we can be, or are we playing a more conservative role that is chosen for us by the dynamics of capitalism, geopolitics, patriarchy, race hierarchies, and all the other power structures that operate in the world than we necessarily need to?  

This is not an idle question and one that I would encourage all progressive populists to think about deeply.  It is also much more complicated than how I have laid it out above and carries deep implications about strategy, politics, and who we tend to see as allies.

In the short term, it may be a minor point (both have limited progressive populists and those more radical than them on one or more issues have limited power right now); in the long run, it is a major point - if highest values of the system itself are not up for debate, then we are destined to carry forward a legacy of status-quo-ism.  And part of what fosters the attitude that promotes that destiny is a constant encouragement never to think about this question.

On an aside, I strongly recommend Unthinking Social Science by Immanuel Wallerstein, which to some extent deals with these questions.  He also writes frequent commentaries on a website maintained by the Center with which he is affiliated.  http://fbc.binghamton.edu/cmpg...


Well, To Each Their Own (4.00 / 1)
But the Hebrew prophets, Martin Luther King & Langston Hughes all seem perfectly fine to me as critical exemplars, who I do not believe are nearly as limited by their choices as you seem to think.

To take a man at his word may be folly, when holding him to it would be both wisdom and power.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
they are fine (4.00 / 2)
but your point in your other post about the functional necessity of a 'left' threat (in the past represented by the soviet union) in order to actually 'get' progressive populist policies into power is a relevant one - for both progressive populists and those to the left of them and the prospect of working together and how.

So too is the level of introspection needed to determine what it is we do and why we do it.  Set aside the third way for a second because, as you demonstrate, it's a bunch of people pretending to be halfwits in order to con people they need to get into power in what was a progressive party at one point.  

What, independently, should we do and how did we come to those goals?  What do we decide, as independently as possible, to do, and why?

For me the debates between the far right (Glenn Beck) and the center/centrist right (Obama), or between the center/centrist right (Third way) and the center (progressives), or between the center (progressives) and the center / left (populist progressives), and between the center/left and those further to their left are all in different contexts important.  But the mentality of 'debates' and 'oppositionality' precludes the idea of sharp, original, and creative solutions to contemporary problems - something that is vitally needed in an age that might end up being called 'the death of the american imagination.'



[ Parent ]
Did You Check Out "Living Downstream"? (4.00 / 2)
I ask that because I'm a great believer that important insights & breakthroughs tend to come from very specific struggles, which then set off complex re-shufflings of previous universalist modelings. And "Living Downstream" is an excellent example of that, and how a woman who might have been just another fairly privileged scientist is out there talking about an environmental human rights movement that's potentially a natural extension path for the emerging climate justice movement of the Global South.

Above all, I think we need to look at the power of juxtaposition--disrupting our own automaticity in dealing with things.  Even if it serves us very well most of the time, we need to constantly open ourselves up to new possibilities.  But this does not mean repeating 30-year old or 130-year old sectarian arguments.  Know what I mean?  Nothing could be less fresh than that.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
A quick, but important, addendum (4.00 / 3)
And that gets to the real nub of the difference between the Third Way and progressive populists:  the Third Way ideology can only think in terms that are defined by market relationships.

I think penality is also central to the Third Way - massive areal bombing and economic sanctions, mass incarceration, welfare "reform," etc.  Penalty for the dehumanized (the poor, Muslims, immigrants, racial minorities, etc.), never for corporations or elites.

In other words, the Third Way ideology can only think in terms that are defined by market relationships or penality.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


What's the real message? (0.00 / 0)
There's a special relationship between a writer and his reader. The former has to have a clear statement of his message in mind; the latter, will have to examine the message, if there was a real clear one, and determine its validity. When either is missing or obfuscated with spurious logic, the conclusion is meaningless, although some people would feel the need to respond sounding intelligent, and pretending there is real meaning, thereby granting validity to irrational ideas.

First: just because someone else brought up the topic, as did Kilgore in his article in The Republic, doesn't automatically deserve being quoted and debated. Going past the first paragraph, where Obama is viewed as a progressive, should have been the point to stop reading for message, and start analyzing for manipulative intent. If the writer means to prove that Obama is a progressive, the reader should immediately know that he's about to be taken for a ride down the path of obfuscation, and redefinition of terms for political manipulation.

Scholastically or academically speaking, it seems reasonable to begin a rebuttal on a plausibly rational or interesting topic written by another. Maybe people in academia have been lead to believe that one is a more acceptable if one quotes another; first, because if your reader doesn't know the person you are quoting, you are one-up on the reader. But most topics can be addressed without putting another writer at the core of your own writing.  

I would think the Open Left audience, would much prefer to deal with pragmatic issues, rather than trying to complicate them by stretching word meanings, which only result in confusion.

It was said of Obama

...deploying regulated and subsidized private sector entities to achieve progressive policy results. This approach was a hallmark of the so-called Clintonian, "New Democrat" movement, and the broader international movement sometimes referred to as "the Third Way," which often defended the use of private means for public ends.

The expression is a pointed intent to mix political entities in such way as to alter general realities, and create the illusion there are other real ideas that are widely held, that the public is too ignorant to know about. For example, "private means" as used above, makes no distinction from the generally perceived difference between rank and file private enterprises and activities, and the "super-rich, super-national, super-private" entities which in practice are not part of the same group. He would have been more accurate to state: "defended the super-rich, and super-corporate banking, insurance, and industrial complex." But that would have automatically have made the next statement, "for public ends," an oxymoron, as was stated by a previous commenter.

When you read Kilgore's update-disclaimer, you discover his motives are exactly what he says they are NOT. Why? Read his article and after doing so, examine how you feel. If someone has to make a point of making a disclaimer on his motives, saying what his motives are not, he is acknowledging a lack of clarity in his earlier exposition, which may have given readers the ideas he's now saying he didn't want to give.

I don't know Kilgore from Adam, so I don't know why our friend Paul Rosenberg chooses Kilgore's concept of the progressive divide, and embraces the "Third way," or "New Democrat" as fraction of a progressive movement and a divide that was concocted by Kilgore.

When you consider that the results of Third Way behavior has given nothing to the populist progressive, except smoke and mirrors, you know that the this third way is just more neo-conservatism pretending to be progressive.

(I've used the term populist progressive myself in other writings to distinguish the underlying progressive ideology, from other pretend progressives who subtly defend the powerful elite, in the personae of the banking and super-rich, supra-national industrial complex.)

Every legislation I've read coming out of our congress since the arrival of Obama has been so tilted (didn't read much before that because it was foregone conclusion that it was nothing but fascistic legislation--). One can read a paragraph heading and get excited and say, "Oh! Look here! Here is something really for the public benefit!" But when you get past the subsequent reading of exemptions and loopholes, you realize there's nothing left for the public.

As they say, "a jackass by any other name..." or better yet, "lipstick on a pig..." Don't confuse any of the current democratic factions that name themselves, "New Democrat," "Progressive Democrat," blue, green, yellow, or brown dog... third way democrats, even if they say they are progressives. If their actions don't show it, they're just neo-conservatives with a mask.

So the real Divide is: we're here, members of the public, trying to change the government towards progressive populism, and they are entrenched there in power for centuries, protecting the super-rich, and controlling elite. As I said elsewhere, we can know pretended progressives, or moderate democrat or republican, where their 'moderation' is to holler in horror against punishment by twenty lashes with spikes, but cheerfully demand that 15 lashes be administered.

Zero is the dividing line; above it (or below, as you chose to plot it) there is elitism from mild to extreme; below it, is progressive populism. There are a lot of other interesting nuances and variations and shades of thought, but there are really no other divides that matter. They either benefit the public or screw 'm. The latter has been the predominant trend since since the 50's in my observation, when I was old enough to watch. Historically, much longer.
 

A National Progressive Alliance, is the only viable solution.

http://www.openleft.com/diary/...






USER MENU


blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you

Donate to Open Left

QUICK HITS
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

STATE BLOGS