Against bamboozlement

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Jun 19, 2010 at 13:00


Michael Tomasky's article, Against Despair: How our misreading of history harms progressivism today adopts the pose of an historically informed adult reprimanding childish activists for their petulance.  But it's really nothing more than one long distraction from the actual facts at hand.  FDR and LBJ weren't perfect paragons, we're reminded, and Rome wasn't built in a day.

What this misses is the real crux of the problem: Obama's crippling ideological and imaginative limitations as a child of Reagan--something that simply has no parallel in FDR and LBJ, for all their shortcomings. Like other attempts to portray FDR as a centrist Democrat, no different than Obama, this is simply historically false.  If FDR was not always a good Keynesian, for example, it was because Keynesianism was just being invented and no one in America really understood it yet. When Obama's not a good Keynesian, it's because he's unwilling or afraid to simply and repeatedly state facts and push back against lies.

Of course it's quite true that Roosevelt was not as progressive as many of his contemporaries, starting with his wife.   And it's true that he backed some conservative ideas as well--though the most significant examples were budget-related ones that largely reflected the primitive state of economic knowledge at the time. But it's also true that he had a much more ideologically diverse group of advisers than Obama, including staunch progressives like Frances Perkins who have no equal in Obama's inner circle.

FDR also had a history of reformist activism from his earliest days in the New York Senate, when he lead a group of insurgents who refused to support the Tammany Hall candidate for US Senate.  Although he later mended fences with Tammany somewhat, there was a clear pragmatic purpose for that--getting elected Governor of New York--and the underlying animus never really went away.  Tammany Hall supported Al Smith for the Democratic nomination for President in 1932, after which the New Deal effectively crippled Tammany Hall, and though it managed a resurgence under Carmine De Sapio in the early 1950s, his torpedoing of FDR Jr.'s run for NY Attorney General lead to Eleanor Roosevelt's involvement in organizing the New York Committee for Democratic Voters, which eventually drove De Sapio from power.

Paul Rosenberg :: Against bamboozlement
More important than all this, however, is the simple fact that FDR was proactive, trying all manner of different approaches to the problems confronting the nation, while Barack Obama so far has proven reactive, selecting ideas only from a relatively narrow menu of options, all preselected with more thought given to his political opposition than to his base--be it about labor issues, civil liberties, war and peace, or the environment.  We saw this once again this week with his Oval Office speech in response to the oil spill, whose utter lamitude was clearly revealed by Rachel Maddow's far superior version.

Tomasky's argument, in essence, is that progressive legacies take time to build, and that we are judging Obama's progress so far through an historically distorted lens. But the counter to this argument is simply that Obama is not building a progressive legacy at all--indeed that he's continuing the Reaganite/neo-liberal dismantling America's progressive legacy.   In short, it's not the speed that's the problem--it's the purpose. Obama himself has defined his purpose as trying to build consensus, whereas FDR was trying to find solutions to dire problems.  Obama, in contrast, readily ignores the problems if they would get in the way of his quest for consensus.  Again, compare his speech with Maddow's.

I would argue that Tomasky has things exactly backwards:  It's Obama who is trapped in a short-term perspective, lacking in a historical sense.   Consider, for example, what happened after health-care passed.  It was clearly a very imperfect bill, but at least in the final days Obama finally started acting like a passionate advocate, and the idea that this could be a first step to be improved upon down the road--which previously seemed like an implausible bad faith argument--really seemed palpably plausible.  There was a sense of potential momentum in the air--a sense based precisely on the kind of long-term perspective that Tomasky claims progressives are lacking, but that quickly started ebbing away again because Obama made it blindingly clear that he was still intent on pursing his failed, ahistorical policy of pursuing consensus for its own sake, even where none was possible.

Here's Tomasky's take on this period:

It's one thing to be disappointed in policy outcomes, or even angry about them. But more and more it seems that we are in an age of liberal despair-as reflex and first instinct, as motif and explanation, even, it sometimes seems to me, as fashion. Criticism of legislation and proposals is always proper and necessary, as is the application of whatever pressure people can apply to try to produce more progressive outcomes. But I've read and heard many critiques that then race right past that into outright desolation. One noticed it in the days after the passage of the health-care bill in late March. There was a brief geyser of euphoria, and then, in two or three or at most five days, skirmishes broke out over why Obama didn't make more recess appointments than the 15 he shoved through on March 27. By March 31-10 days after the House passed health-care reform-when Obama announced his since re-thought plan to open many coastal areas to offshore drilling, things on the liberal side were more or less back to the dour normal.

Well, why the hell not?  Obama's timidity in making recess appointments--and the utter abandonment of Dawn Johnsen--are clear indications of a lack of fighting spirit.  Whatever one might say about FDR and LBJ, neither were lacking in that regard, and that was key to all that they did accomplish.  The off-shore drilling announcement went well beyond this, however, underscoring his repeated naive embrace of questionable (at best) conservative ideas in the vain hope of gaining support from people who hate his guts and only want him to fail.  Tomasky's argument, no matter how compelling it might be in the abstract, suffers from a fatal, fundamental disconnect from reality:  It takes no account of Obama's delusional obsession with an impossible concensus.

But there's another problem, as well.  So far, Obama has confronted problems stemming from three different business sectors: finance, health care and energy.  In all three cases, the basic conflict is not between left and right.  The conflict is between special interests and the common good--including the vast majority of business interests outside of each of those sectors in turn.  This is part of what progressives find so frustrating.  Obama wants to build concensus?  Great!  How about buidling a concensus among everyone that's been victimized by these habitual bad actors?  Out in the real world, conservatives as well as liberals saw their home equities vanish almost overnight because of Wall Street malfeasance.  Conservatives as well as liberals have had life-saving medical care denied to them by faceless insurance company bureaucrats.  Conservatives as well as liberals sat in the dark when Enron forced rolling blackouts onto California, cursed when speculators drove gas prices up to $5 a gallon, and are appalled at BP's never-ending Keystone Cops routine in the Gulf.

In short, Obama actually could have made progress in his goal of getting beyond left and right, if only he hadn't been so obsessed in seeing things in terms of left and right to begin with.  If he'd seen things in terms of the special intersts vs. the common good, that framing in and of itself would have served to bring left and right together--at least in the population at large. And that coming together in the population at large could then be used to pressure politicians in DC.  But Obama is far too much of insider politician, far too much of a machine man for anything like that.

Which brings me to my finaly point.  There is something that Tomasky has right: liberal despair is a poor match to rightwing rage (Tomasky calls it "a joyful rage").  And this is certainly correct.  But surely Tomasky must understand that it's hard for partisan supporters to muster rage against a president of their own party.  If they have to pass through a period of frustration and despair first, who should be surprised at that?  Rather than lecturing activists on their emotional lives, Tomasky ought to be counselling the Administration on what happened to LBJ when he lost his base of partisan support by fighting a war he didn't believe in to "protect his right flank". But, then, if Tomasky were to try to talk sense to the Obama Administration, then he, too, might find himself getting filled with frustration and despair.  Fortunately for him, he shares their delusion.  In his essay, he notes that he supports the war in Afghanistan.  No frustration and despair for him!  No siree!  


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The Rhine Maiden (4.00 / 2)
The President reminds me of Heine's poem Die Lorelei, especially its last line:

Und das hat mit ihrem Singen,
Die Loreley getan.

(And that's what she's done with her singing
the Lorelei)

He sits on the rock, combing his hair and singing, while we run into it. Presumably a tear wells up as he looks down and sees us drowning, but his radiance blinds us, and we can't be certain.


This is a terrific post, Paul (4.00 / 10)
I want to highlight two parts that I wish could be flashing in neon on the computer screen of every critic of the critics.

Tomasky's argument, in essence, is that progressive legacies take time to build, and that we are judging Obama's progress so far through an historically distorted lens. But the counter to this argument is simply that Obama is not building a progressive legacy at all--indeed that he's continuing the Reaganite/neo-liberal dismantling America's progressive legacy.   In short, it's not the speed that's the problem--it's the purpose.

So far, Obama has confronted problems stemming from three different business sectors: finance, health care and energy.  In all three cases, the basic conflict is not between left and right.  The conflict is between special interests and the common good--including the vast majority of business interests outside of each of those sectors in turn.  This is part of what progressives find so frustrating.  Obama wants to build concensus?  Great!  How about buidling a concensus among everyone that's been victimized by these habitual bad actors?

Of course, this well-put sentiments wouldn't persuade Obama admirers to think differently about him, but maybe, just maybe, they might actually confront the arguments of non-fans and stop erecting straw men.

One final thing. The charge that critics are prone to despair is, among other things, amusing: after eighteen months Obama admirers are essentially back where they began. After preaching patience and putting lipstick on a herd of pigs and spotting traitors in our midsts and devising a thousand ways to tell critics of Obama to STFU, they are once again trying to take ownership of "hope," and this new incarnation is even more empty than the last.  



On that first point, (4.00 / 12)
Greenwald says something similar:

...[C]ontrary to the blatant strawman incessantly raised by those loyalists, note that the criticisms here are not grounded in complaints that Obama has failed to act quickly enough to usher in progressive policies -- let's repeat that:  the vast bulk of criticisms of Obama are not grounded in complaints that he has failed to act quickly enough to usher in progressive policies -- but are instead based on horrendous policies which Obama himself has affirmatively and explicitly adopted as his own, many of which directly contradict what he vowed to do as President

http://www.salon.com/news/opin...


[ Parent ]
As I said in an earlier thread (4.00 / 14)
the Catfood Commission is an excellent, and horrifying, example of this.  Large, bipartisan majorities support Social Security and Medicare, and would be willing to raise taxes to support them.  And yet the Obama White House chose to support it when a similar proposal died in Congress, chose to put those who have been working to undermine these programs for decades in charge of it, and chose not to include any real discussion of the role of tax cuts for the rich or military spending as part of the agenda.  These are the positions that Obama has adopted, and talk of what he really believes is simply irrelevant. The issue isn't that they are going slow - it's that they are going full speed ahead with a regressive agenda.

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[ Parent ]
I guess pseudo-progressives don't like being called out as such. (4.00 / 9)
Is it just me, or is Tomasky being uncharacteristically incoherent to the point of projection? After spending all that time basically saying Obama's critics are essentially right, he himself misuses history to rationalize a way to say those same critics are just immature wankers who should grow up. So which is it, Michael?

It's a weak defense of the indefensible. Still, this seems to be a growing meme amongst ruling elites of the not-Republican variety. Here's Theda Skocpol, herself an expert on social revolutions and the conditions which create them and whose work I have a fond respect for, chiding those who would dare criticize the elites:

It is not just right-wing government bashers and wealthy corrupters who have destroyed the nation's capacity for governmental decision-making. It is also short-sighted liberalism that tries to turn everything into a personal crisis, and assumes that presidents are omnipotent commanders. Since the 1970s, liberalism has emphasized rights, identity politics, and action through courts or presidential orders. It has neglected the patient business of building government and creating enduring majorities through Congress.

In this case, it is simple. If liberals do not support Obama and the Democrats for the next two election cycles, a rabid Right will be back in control, and America will devolve further into ineffective gridlock and rising inequality. Even the gains that have been made so far, a pretty good health reform, student loan reforms, improved financial regulations, and so forth, will quickly be weakened and reversed if the Republicans regain Congress and the presidency. Liberals right now should not be joining in Obama bashing on the oil spill. They should be focused on Republican blame and hypocrisy -- and should pressure the Senate to vote for good energy legislation.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme...

"...devolve into further gridlock and rising inequality."? Isn't that a given at this point anyway?

Of course, it's all so very easy to assume all this braying hysteria from the left is just about the Oilpocalypse. Skocpol should know better that this is merely the proverbial straw dislodging a camel's vertebrae. The Dem base that was being perhaps too patient is finally waking up, since they are environmentalists and that actually matters to a lot of people. Even moderately engaged environmentalists know all too well about MMS and how Ken Salazar never reformed a damn thing outside of firing the top political appointee. Or two. Skocpol of all people should know (and does know) just how radicalizing events like these tend to be on the "little people," especially when they are handled so very badly as this one.

So it would seem that when prominent intellectuals of the elite academy are reduced to hippy-punching, even at the expense of ignoring their own body of work to do so, then all is not well in Happy Town.

William, I don't think I'll be able to get "braying asininity" out of my head for some time!



"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


Yeah, That Was Really Bad (4.00 / 3)
She's a real scholar.  This kind of rhetoric on her part is really sad.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
If this is true (4.00 / 6)
and if the Dems are really on our side, then she draws the wrong conclusion:

If liberals do not support Obama and the Democrats for the next two election cycles, a rabid Right will be back in control, and America will devolve further into ineffective gridlock and rising inequality.

Egro, Obama and the Dems should court the left.  And we ought to make plenty of noise demanding that they do.  Because pretending that things are ok won't work, no matter how much Tomasky or Skocpol complain.

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[ Parent ]
Exactly. These people have it backwards. (4.00 / 9)
AFter eight years of BushCO, how difficult would it have been to keep the left reasonably happy? Not all that much. But instead of working on building constituencies, they decided to tear them apart with the Bait & Switch Presidency.

Yet we're supposed to believe that if President Bait & Switch fails, it's somehow our fault for complaining about being lied to? Heh. That's the kind of pretzel logic I expect from two-bit hacks, not leading intellectuals. Skocpol in particular is well aware of what happens to a regime's legitimacy once the intelligentsia leaves the reservation. The bourgeoisie are not far behind.

We may be farther along in the collapse of legitimacy than I had previously thought.

"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


[ Parent ]
Bingo! (4.00 / 4)
I really didn't have high expectations for Obama.  I just thought he would have a normal tendency not to shoot himself & his party in the foot.

Wrong!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The impression I get from Tomasky and Skopcol is desperation (4.00 / 3)
They both understand what's wrong as well as we do (probably) but fear something worse and can't imagine anything better.

[ Parent ]
But I also see more despair (4.00 / 1)
than is healthy on places like Firedoglake for example.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

[ Parent ]
Maybe there are two kinds of deapair, then (4.00 / 1)
Tomasky and Skopcol believe that we should give up and just support Obama. FDL believes that we should just give up and go into unfocussed opposition.

I doubt that Tomasky and Skopcol have thought out the "gradual progress" idea. Obama and his crew have control of the Democratic Party now, and what they're doing now is what they think should be done. Obama isn't setting up the next step, he's trying to prevent it.

On the Gulf speech, I didn't listen to it and I haven't been spending any time complaining about it, but what I would have wanted to see was a recognition of the scope of the disaster and a recognition that it was the result of a regulatory collapse (or rather, regulatory sabotage).

From some of the statements coming out of the Obama camp, it seems that they are indeed part of the problem. "Nothing like this has happened for almost 20 years, so perhaps we relaxed out vigilance a little" -- something like that. They seemed to think that people would say "Yeah, anyone could make that mistake" instead of "That's the one thing we had a right to expect that you wouldn't do".

It's like they'd said "People before us did their job so well that we concluded that we wouldn't have to do ours."


[ Parent ]
A quibble (4.00 / 7)
FDL believes that we should just give up and go into unfocussed opposition.

I might be reading too much into this comment, but I don't think this is true. There are certainly a lot of comments at FDL that sound like that, but its hard to tell how much of this is sincere and how much is venting.  Given the brevity of comments, I'm not inclined to read to heavily into them. I don't mean to suggest there aren't plenty of people out there who feel this way, just that it's easy to overestimate.

As for the folks running the joint, I definitely think they are offering something more positive.  Jon Walker has been on fire lately, looking for productive lessons and models in history. See How to Turn Local Groups into Incubators of Progressive Candidates: Lessons from the CCF, Part One.  Or the previous series on the Anti-Saloon League.

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[ Parent ]
They're certainly worried about keeping the proles under control. (4.00 / 4)
But given the ubiquity of this kind of messaging since the Oilpocalypse began, I'm sensing these aren't merely individual efforts. This has been in the meme development department for a while, but it's hitting notes like a chorus now.

This is all a part of the same effort being made by Yglesias and Bouie, for example. There seems a concerted effort to undermine (without making it look like that) substantive critics. Paul's tiff with Bouie is a part of that.

But to draw on Skocpol's book, States & Social Revolutions, no one gave a rat's ass about reasons to support the French monarchy when the winter wheat crop failed and the state essentially had nothing to say but, "Eat cake instead!"

Crises have a way of destroying feeble arguments.

"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


[ Parent ]
One cheer for Skocpol (0.00 / 0)
I supported her first post on TPMCafe earlier in the week.  All the pissing and moaning about what Obama should have said in his Oval Office speech struck me as overwrought drama-queenery.  I mean, it wasn't as if the barnburner speech they were hoping for would have been treated as anything but another "inspiring" speech - been there, done that, baw-ring.
So he took a different tack and it turns out he had something up his sleeve that wasn't a total piece of shit.  Tactically, okay.  

None of that argues against the more fundamental criticisms of Obama's oil policy that continue to be vitally necessary.  But it's going to take more than a whole boatload of barnburners to get the country moving in that direction.

The weakness of the fixation on Obama's inadequacies is that they betray an utter dependence of US on HIM to change course.  There's nothing we can do.  Either HE changes or WE'RE fucked.  I've given up on him changing.  I'm concentrating on how do WE FORCE him to do something to prevent us from sliding back down the stream.  We need to put ourselves in the active voice.  How do we hold whatever ground we've taken?

Back to Theda Skocpol, when her second piece drifted into "progressives need to STFU" territory, that's where she and I part company.


sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
I Don't See That Much Diffrence Between Stage 1 & Stage 2 (4.00 / 1)
In part because I wasn't looking for a barn-burneer.  I was looking for cogency and comprehensiveness.

Not expecting them, of course.  But that's what I graded him on.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I guess my point is (0.00 / 0)
that nobody cares what grade you or I (or Theda Skocpol for that matter) give Obama.  What's important is where we end up at the end of our efforts.  

And the right answer to those who are telling us to shut the fuck up is to keep talking about what we were talking about, rather than being distracted into complaining that they're telling us to shut up.  

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Okay, But (4.00 / 1)
The two are not mutually exclusive.  Pushing back against STFU memes is important in order to keep people's minds open to our criticisms of Obama and activism to bring pressure to change.

It's important not to lose focus, but there's a place for doing both.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Fair enough (0.00 / 0)
But why are the threads complaining about the STFU always longer than the threads about the issues that brought the STFUs?

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

[ Parent ]
Yes. And a plan would have been a big hit too. (4.00 / 5)
He had nearly two months to come up with a plan. That's more than long enough, even if it's imperfect or incomplete. But he can't present a plan most people will like, because he's not going to change policy. That's not a plan, that's burying one's head in the sand.

A stemwinder is always good entertainment, but that's not really what people need.

"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


[ Parent ]
A Plan, A Plan... (4.00 / 1)
No, I don't think presidents do plans anymore.

That's an unrealistic expectation.

Cable TV show hosts do plans.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Well, (4.00 / 3)
not plans they can share with the little people.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
I agree. (0.00 / 0)
So where does that leave us?  Obama doesn't have a plan because fundamentally he's not about the kinds of transformations that you'd need to be about in order to HAVE a plan.  We know this.  It's beyond obvious.

That's why I don't get behind calls for more stemwinders or Rachel Maddow's "alternate speech".  It isn't about speeches, fundamentally.  Nice to dream, and maybe does a little good to show what an alternative might look like but it doesn't do that much to move the ball forward on THIS series of downs which is the game at this point.

Ultimately, we have to strike the right balance between going after Obama and going after the Republicans whose ever-rightward push enables Obama to represent a so-called middle that is constantly drifting to the right.  We have to do both.  If we go after Obama 24x7 and forget all about the Republicans, then we only demoralize the base.

Right now the administration is going after Republicans because of their support for BP.  They've also managed to (finally) open up a split WITHIN the Republican party over this issue.  As long as they keep this up, I'll support them on that, EVEN AS I do not refrain from pointing out that they don't have an adequate energy plan themselves.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Roosevelt had plenty of enemies on his left (4.00 / 4)
At all times there was someone denouncing Roosevelt as too cautious and too conservative, and his opponents Congressmen and governors.

There were real socialists (4.00 / 5)
who were not completely marginalized as they are today. I am not a historian, but I suspect you are comparing apples to oranges. Roosevelt's critics on the left were much more left wing than the mild center-left Dem base that is currently demoralized by Obama's center right policies.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
It's not our willingness to demand more, it's our ability to demand more. (4.00 / 1)
We were one-for-two in the primary-their-asses events this year and pretty damned close to two-for-two.  Keep it up, I say.  They say shut the fuck up, we keep saying what we're saying.  That's how I see it.  I couldn't care less about "STFU".  Just don't do it.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

[ Parent ]
How the hell did this post wind up here? (0.00 / 0)
It was in response to a different post.  I think there is a bug in this site's software that manifests itself when you hit reply while you have a pending reply to another message unsubmitted.  It takes that reply and appends it to the second thread rather than the first.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

[ Parent ]
Here's the reply I did want to make to miasmo (4.00 / 1)
What's your point here?  I'm sure John Emerson knows what you're saying and don't see how you are contradicting him.  You're making the same point he is, which is that part of why FDR was to the left of Obama was because the left, was MUCH stronger and more to the left than today's left is and therefore was able to exert more of a pull.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

[ Parent ]
FDR had amazing people working with him, not yes people (0.00 / 0)
And Eleanor writing him notes she put on his bedside table. Can you see Michelle intervening like that? Nope. All she talks about are her children, how fast food makes children fat (duh), even her garden is last year's news. She is a disaster too. Just like all those girls in my past classrooms who stuck out their lower lip when they got less than A++++ on a quiz. I know exactly what she was like in school. A real rote learner.

[ Parent ]
One and a half cheers for Tomasky (0.00 / 0)
(flame suit on)
I would like to agree with Paul's last paragraph, admitting that there's a point to Tomasky's counsel against despair.  Despair ain't gonna cut it.  Despair does nothing good, even if it can be overwhelmingly justified.

So while I don't agree with any of this latest spate of "progressive" criticism of progressives - the Halter campaign does not need to apologize to anyone, what Israel is doing is a disgrace, etc. etc., none of this is going be solved by despair, or by goin' fishin' or sitting the next two elections out, or any of that.

Barring something totally unforeseen, WE and I mean WE, are stuck with Obama and this ridiculous political party he claims to belong to.  I'm not willing to accept a slide back to Bushism or Palinism or whatever the enemy is going to be.  So yeah, I'll hold my nose and on Election Day stick with the worthless sellout Democrats because at some point our critiques may come to seem more cogent to more people than they are now and they need to keep going.

So, fire away - with gusto - at all the atrocities of the Administration.  Even if all it seems to achieve is their using us as a foil by which to make themselves appear more "reasonable", at least it's not the Republicans - yes they're worse.  And I'll try not to get too bent out of shape about the insults.  I'll take the insults and get up and fight the next round like they never happened.  Because ultimately, it ain't about US (the left wing of the blogosphere).

The point at which I draw the line is the point where anger becomes despair and/or passivity.  I guess that means I'll wind up supporting Obama at least some of the time.  It's a very uncomfortable position, but I see no alternative to learning how to live in it.  For now.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


Glad you will be able to hold your nose and vote for him (4.00 / 2)
I will not. I will vote for a Green or any independent and my vote will be thrown away because I am in MO. Too bad. I will not go down alone either. I will not vote for any incumbent unless they stood tall. And no one from MO did. So out they go. On my ballot at least.

[ Parent ]
I'm probably beating a dead horse replying in this thread (4.00 / 1)
but what the hell.

This reminds me of an old story told by the late Dorothy Healey, a noted California radical.  Paul no doubt knew her, every radical in LA did, and so did many beyond.  She had a radio program on Pacifica.

Dorothy was an open member of the Communist Party from soon after it formed and stayed in it until the early seventies.  She was a dissident within its ranks for much of that time and about as far from the stereotyped apparatchik as can be imagined.  She transcended all sectarian boundaries and had a wealth of stories to tell a younger generation.  

One story that I remember concerned the 1962 elections.  After the polls closed she sat in her living room watching the returns with a collection of friends.  As befit her basic non-sectarian nature, one of her friends belonged to the Trotskyist Socialist Workers' Party, which was most unusual.  There was no love lost between them and the CP.  But that was Dorothy.  While the CP had often operated within the Democratic Party since the Thirties, it was a point of principle for the SWP never to do so.  The SWP always ran its own candidates, who never had any chance of winning.   As the returns came in for the governorship of California, Democratic governor Pat Brown (father of Jerry) was declared the winner in his reelection bid over Richard Nixon. (That was the election when he gave his famous "won't have Nixon to kick around anymore" speech).  Anyway, the SWP guy greeted this news with an emphatic "Thank God", in spite of his party's dogmatic stance that there was no important difference between the two parties.

I guess it seems to me that we are somewhat in this same position now.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
agreed, Abby (0.00 / 0)
Thirty plus years of haveing to choose the lesser evil has only changed the rate of civilization decline (when we win). Now that a large percentage must look up to see the lake surface, rate of decline has less meaning.

The rape-public-cans WILL wreck the nation's economy faster, but that may be a good thing. Total suffering may be reduced if the end comes quicker. And, thirty years of failure proves the current (dual wealth parties) system won't work.

Neither party represents the majority, so who does anyone in the majority vote for?......so the conditions necessary for a populist revolution grow.

Government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob..... FDR


[ Parent ]
Thanks as I don't get much support around here (0.00 / 0)
We have a chance with the transparency of the internet. They can't hide things so easily anymore. The bad part is that there is an overwhelming amount of information to sift through. That is why individual sites are so important. Even Huff Po has its merits on this.

I do love Confluence which is riverdaughter.blogspot.com as a principled stand is taken there. Obama is not treasured there even as the lesser evil.

Eugene Debs never had a chance yet he ran and ran. Such an admirable man who will always be remembered for his integrity. And now that Rahm has come out in favor of trashing bipartisanism to seduce us for November, many will fall for it. But his sophisticated younger base is going to be hard to recapture. That energy and devotion and work is not going to be there for him.

Obama is just another pretty face with naught behind it. He should have gone to Hollywood. He would have been a great success there.

If we hold our noses and yank or push the button we fall in line yet once again. We need to be willing to stand for more and take the consequences. As for the CP in the comment above, they had a strategic plan coming from Moscow. And taking over the dem party was part of it. And so was the film propaganda which forces me to agree with Ayn Rand on this. This is one reason we have all these namby pamby neo liberals around now. They have learned the game and profit from it. None of them mean what they say. They are only interested in their re-election money. Their steady job with lots of perks.

Kick out all incumbants. We won't win but the message will be sent.


[ Parent ]
You know what I would like (4.00 / 5)
I'd like it if people would talk about FDR and LBJ in a context other than telling us to STFU.  

Or rather, if more people would do that - this diary is a great start.

One more thing:

But it's also true that he had a much more ideologically diverse group of advisers than Obama, including staunch progressives like Frances Perkins who have no equal in Obama's inner circle.

The fix was in when the cabinet and White House appointments came out. It was a shame how little push back there was on that issue - right out of the gate. 'Obama is really a progressive' was simply irrelevant.  

Our willingness to demand more may be the most important thing we need to develop.

Support the Youth PROMISE Act


I agree with you (4.00 / 1)
It took about two or three days to see it. The people in my neon red town saw it that fast too and they are not tea party types. Just tough rednecks.

The harder one worked to get him elected the harder it is to admit failure.

Never again fall for speeches containing ideology.

Change and hope are ideological concepts. They cannot be pragmatic unless fleshed out in detailed fashion. Those of us who believed him, and I am one, have had an important illusion torn from our eyes and minds.


[ Parent ]
Nobody gets it (0.00 / 0)
Obama is a self-destructive personality. He is a nicotine addict too. He is an addict!

He was addicted to adoration during the campaign. He will never get that again. He is on his way to mediocrity and down from there. That is what he will do.

He wants to fail. No one can change his fatalistic yearnings. He is a liar and that goes with being an addict.


Any Idea How Many Other Presidents Have Smoked??? (4.00 / 4)
Good lord!  Most parents would give their eye teeth to have a kid so self-destructive that they became President of the USA.

Of course personal psychology needs to be considered, but this is ridiculous.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Not to mention -- (4.00 / 1)
what's that anecdote about Lincoln's reaction when told Gen. Grant was an alcoholic? He said "Find out what kind of whiskey he drinks and give it to all my generals."

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Grant was winning Obama is losing (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
My point was, (0.00 / 0)
as Lincoln knew, an addictive personality can be asset in some circumstances.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
At no time in our history of popular smoking (0.00 / 0)
has so much been known about its slow suicide consequences. No one can smoke today without knowing that and or being in denial.

He is choosing to do something that will kill him.


[ Parent ]
Give it UP already! (4.00 / 2)
Remember those pictures of FDR jauntily holding a cigarette holder?  Does this mean he was a bad President?  Please!  This is absolutely the least of the problems with Obama.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

[ Parent ]
Addicts are addicts (0.00 / 0)
And FDR does not prove anything. Obama does not smoke with his family. He does not want to set that example for his children. He does not smoke in public.  He is like a closet alcoholic.

[ Parent ]
Jesus fucking Christ (0.00 / 0)
I didn't respond to you yesterday but this is idiotic. No wonder you don't get any support around here.

If you want people to pay attention don't dump shit like that in front of them.  


[ Parent ]

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