The economic equivalent of the repetitious Afghanistan disaster

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 17:00


Afghanistan is a disaster.  Even Michael Steele can see that.  More on that tomorrow.  But Afghanistan is not the only conservative disaster that Obama has managed to make his own over the past year and a half.  In fact, making conservative disasters his own is sort of an Obama specialty.  He's not alone in this, of course.  It's sort of a "Third Way" thing.  In fact, it practically defines what it means to be "Third Way".  You take a few "high-minded" liberal ideals, combine them with a shit-load of failed (and/or doomed to fail) conservative policy frameworks, and voila! there you have your "Third Way" in its entirety.  Earlier this week, in "Learned Helplessness In Macro", Paul Krugman gave a quick run-down of what this looks like in the economic policy realm:

the basic story of "modern" macro runs like this:

1. Lucas and his disciples agree that the economy looks Keynesian - that is, it surely looks as if monetary and fiscal policy have real effects - but argue that an equilibrium approach with imperfect information can explain why, while rejecting Keynesian policy implications. And they ridicule Keynesian economics.

2. By 1980 - three decades ago! - it is already clear that the Lucas project has failed. Equilibrium models with imperfect information cannot, in fact, explain key facts about business cycles, especially the way recessions persist even though everyone knows that they're in a recession.

3. Rather than admitting that they went down the wrong track, however, the advocates of freshwater macro double down; they decide to forget about what they used to know about the apparent effects of demand shocks, and explain the business cycle in terms of real shocks.

4. This approach also falls short; in an attempt to rescue the models, ever more epicycles are added, and whatever clarity may once have existed gets lost.

5. Freshwater economists declare that the business cycle is deeply puzzling, and that we need much more research before we can make policy recommendations.
In short, what we're looking at is learned helplessness.

This is actually not what the term "learned helplessness" means, since it refers to a psychological, not an intellectual, process. But, then, calling this morass of misundersanding "intellectual" is a bit of its own stretch, don'tcha know! So I'm not going to push it.

To add a bit more detail to this story, the core mistake here is two-fold: (1) the belief that macro-phenomena must be reduced to micro-phenomena (as opposed, say, to seeing that both micro- and macro- phenomena can influence each other), and (2) the belief that micro-phenomena can be explained in terms of "rational expectations", a relatively simplistic, static model of human decisionmaking that directly contradicts much of what cognitive & social science has to tell us about human cognition and decisionmaking.

This approach doesn't work from the very beginning, but to try to make it work, they adopt a practice reminiscent of pre-Copernican astronomy, when any deviation from "perfect" circular orbits was dealt with by adding smaller epicycles of circular orbits around the paths of larger circular orbits.  In this case, they took the relatively new discoveries of "imperfect information"--which looked at one way destroyed the foundations of classical micro-economics--and used them to try to show how their micro-based vision could work.  This was all embodied in Krugman's first point above--and his second point spelled its doom.  

Paul Rosenberg :: The economic equivalent of the repetitious Afghanistan disaster
With this in mind, let's follow Krugman's own link back to an earlier post from last September where he provides more detail for those early steps:

As I remember it, it all began with the Phelps volume: Microeconomic Foundations of Employment and Inflation Theory....

Phelps and others tried to explain why the economy looks so Keynesian in terms of imperfect information: workers and firms respond to a change in the price level as if it were a change in relative prices, because they can't at first tell the difference. Over time, however, they will realize their mistake - so that, for example, a rise in the inflation rate will reduce unemployment at first, but won't do so on a sustained basis, because eventually inflation will get built into expectations. So the new theory predicted the emergence of stagflation, a prediction that was duly confirmed.

But where do expectations come from? Robert Lucas married Phelps-type models of employment with rational expectations, the view that people in the economy use all available information to make predictions. And this led to a startling conclusion: anticipated policies have no effect on employment. Only surprise changes in, say, the money supply matter - which means that you can't use monetary or fiscal policy to stabilize the economy.

So, not only do they get their wet dream of (1) reducing macro-phenomena to micro-phenomena (2) explained in terms of "rational expectations" (with an epicycle fudge-factor of "imperfect information"), they also show that policies can't help with employment if people see them coming--which easily morphs simply into " policies can't help with employment", even though there actually endless paradoxes involved in this sort of conceptual slight-of-hand.  (For example: If it doesn't work because it's foreseeable, then you don't do it, but everyone knows you won't do it, so then when you do it, it's not forseeable, so it must work!)

Krugman continued:

The Lucas view took the economics profession by storm - not because there was any solid evidence for it, but because it was so clever, because it led to nice math, because it let macroeconomists give in to their inner neoclassicists.

But by the late 70s it was already clear that rational expectations macro didn't work. Why? Because people have too much information.

Think about the story of unemployment I've just described. It's a story in which a contraction in the money supply can produce a recession - but only as long as people don't know that there's a recession! You see, if people do know that there's a recession, they know that the low prices they're being offered reflect low overall demand, not specifically low demand for their products.

In Lucas-type models, people were supposed to look at the prices they received, and optimally extract the "signal" from the "noise". The models broke down, however, as soon as you let people have access to any other information - say, by looking at interest rates, or reading a newspaper. And the reality, of course, is that recessions persist long after everyone knows that there's a recession, so that the confusion required by Lucas-type models is long since gone.

This was both oddly similar yet dissimilar to the pre-Copernican obsession with epicycles and preserving circular orbits.  The best pre-Copernican were much more data-driven than their economist descendents, and that was a notable dissimilarity.  But they were equally obsessed with their notion of what counted as a pure and simple core explanation, staunchly refusing to let go just because the data stubbornly refused to behave.

Actually, the better analogy might not be the pre-Copernicans, but rather the last true believer in epicycles, the post-Copernican king of astronomers Tycho Brahe, for whom Kepler worked as an assistant for almost a decade.  Brahe proposed a hybrid model, in which all the planets except Earth revolved around the Sun, while the Sun and the Moon both revolved around the Earth.   It was a great simplification, on the one hand, vastly reducing the number of epicycles needed, but a relatively sophisticated model, on the other hand.  Of course it didn't work.  But it certain was impressive. And the clever way it eliminated some epicycles while elevating others suggests a similarity to how Lucas-type models required a similarly arbitrary view of perfect vs. imperfect information.
Krugman (in his September 2009 diary) continued:

I recall a seminar, I think in 1980, in which Robert Barro was presenting a rational-expectations business cycle model. Someone asked him how he could reconcile his model with the severe recession taking place as he spoke. "I'm not interested in the latest residual," Barro snapped.

But by 1980 or 1981 it was basically clear to everyone that the Lucas project - the attempt to explain the evidently Keynesian behavior of the economy in terms of nothing but imperfect information - had failed. So what were macroeconomic theorists supposed to do?

The answer was that they split. One faction said, in effect, "OK: we can't explain what we think we see in terms of full maximization. So we have to assume that there are some limits to maximization - costs of changing prices, bounded rationality, whatever." That faction became New Keynesian, saltwater economics.

The other faction said, in effect, "OK: we can't explain what we think we see in terms of full maximization. So we must be interpreting the data wrong - things like changes in the money supply must not be driving recessions, because theory says they can't." That faction became real business cycle, freshwater economics.

Before going on with Krugman's story, I want to make a deeper point: Neither of these groups rejected the second part of the two-fold core mistake I mentioned above:

(1) the belief that macro-phenomena must be reduced to micro-phenomena (as opposed, say, to seeing that both micro- and macro- phenomena can influence each other), and (2) the belief that micro-phenomena can be explained in terms of "rational expectations", a relatively simplistic, static model of human decisionmaking that directly contradicts much of what cognitive & social science has to tell us about human cognition and decisionmaking.  

The freshwater economists remained firmly wedded to both these beliefs, while the saltwater economists seemingly preferred civil unions. Krugman continued:

But here's the thing: at this point, the freshwater school no longer remembers any of that - largely because they purged Keynesian and even monetarist thought from their classes. All they know is that Keynesianism was "disproved", and that none of it - not even New Keynesian models with rational expectations (an approach which, as Greg Mankiw says, "provides a rationale for government intervention in the economy, such as countercyclical monetary or FISCAL POLICY.") - is worth listening to.

So that's how we got to where we are today.

That diary by Krugman was roughly contemporaneous with his NYT magazine piece, "How Did Economists Get It So Wrong?", which I wrote about in my diary, "What Went Wrong-Krugman And Beyond"

One part of that diary is worth quoting here:

(4) Because Keynes rejected the full set of neo-classical assumptions, his theory of the economy as a whole (macro-economics) could not be compatible with the neo-classical theory of economic transactions at the level of individuals, firms and limited markets (micro-economics).  But Keynes never supplied an alternative micro-economics to go with his theory.  So-called Keynesians since him have generally tried to combine neo-classical micro-economics with Keynesian macro-economics, sometimes introducing variations, such as making the micro-economics more realistic via behavioral economics.  Post-Keynesians have generally rejected this approach as intellectually incoherent.  Their tendency has been toward empirical studies of actual micro-economic behavior, rather than depending on axiom-dependent models of any kind.

On the micro-economic side, the just-published Issue 53 of the Real World Economics Review contains an article, "Debunking the theory of the firm-a chronology" by Steve Keen and Russell Standish.  The article is "heavy going" as Keen himself says in a personal introduction, and I haven't even tried to do more than glance at it. But the point is, there is a rigorous criticism of the original neoclassical micro-economics out there, in addition to more recent criticisms in terms of its basic assumptions running counter to other social and cognitive science findings.  In short, the entireedifice of existing economic theory--micro as well as macro--is really only as good as its predictions turn out to be. If it works--fine. But if it doesn't, there's no clear core of well-grounded theory to fall back on.  It's all a project of "almosting it", as James Joyce so quaintly put it.

Krugman concludes his diary from this week thus:

Economists who didn't go down this path, who didn't flush everything the profession had learned between 1936 and 1973 down the memory hole, aren't especially baffled by the situation we're in now; on the contrary, it looks like an extreme version of a fairly familiar event, and policy recommendations aren't hard to make.

It's only if you're committed to a failed research project - a project that failed a generation ago, but refused to admit it - that you're baffled.

And he's quite right... so far as he goes.  It's not that New Keynesians have an intellectually sound model of economics.  They have a good enough grasp of what needs to be done to avoid utter catastrophe along the lines of past disasters.   And good enough should be good enough to get on with it, and avoid another 1937, another lost decade, another long depression.  Much,much more needs to be done than that.  But unless we do that, then things will get very ugly indeed.

The failures of conservatism must be recognized for what they are: Utter failures that need to be utterly rejected.  They are failures of the past that simply need not be repeated again.  Only once we have put them behind us can the real work begin.  Only then can we hope to sort through the relative relative short-comings of various left-liberal approaches, and which ones represent the most promising ways forward in dealing with the future challenges that face us.


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Thanks, Paul (4.00 / 1)
There's a lot to consider in this article and it makes a great deal of sense. It's seems to me to explain the conservative economic "theory" that everything can be explained by behavior of individuals with no consideration for how individuals are influenced by group phenomenon.

Somehow the theorists seem stuck on the idea that since you can see and directly observe an individual, everything is explained by the behavior of that individual and that the individual has total freedom to decide and act. That is mistaken in assuming that there are no phenomenon which exist only at the group level.

No study of culture can support that, but conservatives blow it off because their preferred ways of getting individuals to act the way they prescribe are all violent and aimed at individuals. The very existence of groups as autonomous social entities seems to escape them.

I'll reread your post some more now.  


I'll Have More On This Next Weekend (4.00 / 2)
Jon Hanson of Harvard Law School has written extensively about situational vs. dispositional explanations for human behavior and the consequences in the field of law.  I've written about his work in the past, and I'll be discussing it again in terms of how it relates to ideology among other things.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Sometimes I wonder if K-man will ever really get this problem. (4.00 / 3)
In terms of development of "mainstream" economic thinking, he seems to be succinctly most accurate. But he has a massive blind spot when it comes to the worldview/ideology that is behind these so-called theories. Which leads me to his #2:

By 1980 - three decades ago! - it is already clear that the Lucas project has failed. Equilibrium models with imperfect information cannot, in fact, explain key facts about business cycles, especially the way recessions persist even though everyone knows that they're in a recession.

I will quibble with his characterization of "failed," for the simple reason these people do not consider their policies as "failed" in the least. In fact, they've been spectacularly successful, in terms of their ideological goals: destroy the middle-class -- and with it democratic governance -- and redistribute wealth upwards while transferring tax burdens downward. In all these areas, the neo-liberals have been extremely successful, no?

What K-man is trying to do is accept their efforts as a good-natured, yet totally flawed notion of what "good policy" is. He sees their rationalizations not as cheap propaganda based on largely phoney whizbang "models", but as serious theory. For some reason, he seems to think the denizens of the Chicago School have any interest in things like Full Employment or even anything resembling a healthy domestic economy. But that is not what neo-liberal policy-making is about. So like many of his contemporaries, he simply thinks politics is somehow decoupled from economic policy and it's results for society, with the result that he is missing a large part of the picture here.

The reason I object to some of his reasoning is he's ignoring the proverbial elephant in the room. When he says,

"Rather than admitting that they went down the wrong track, however, the advocates of freshwater macro double down...."

he's ignoring the fact that they can't possibly view it that way, when they see so much actual success in terms of their policy objectives. So while I think his economic thinking is always very worthwhile, his political blind spots will only continue to force him to rationalize on behalf of the very people he's criticizing. Even when those discussions are actually quite interesting in terms of explaining their theoretical positions.

Then again, when it comes to the NYTimes, actually calling out neo-liberals for what they are is just as taboo as depicting Palestinians as human beings, so there's undoubtedly some editorial pressure there too.

In any case, what Krugman is describing isn't a failed system, it's a set of ideological imperatives. In this sense alone, he is likely misleading himself and thusly a good portion of his readers as to what the whole point of this bickering is all about. Neo-liberals, from Chicago to DC--including the whiz kids at the White House--are simply not concerned about more traditional economic issues, like Full Employment. The single best way to destroy the middle classes is through chronic high unemployment.

That's why they like it so much, not because it's good economics.



"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


Politics work; not the economics (4.00 / 3)
The single most important thing about these utterly failed models is that they can be popularized, politicized and sold by Republican pols using the Laffer curve and other idiotic methods.

Something for nothing?  Well, down the line you will pay with your job and your retirement while corporations and the rich buy a reprieve.


[ Parent ]
I Think You're Half Right (4.00 / 2)
I think that Krugman finds it very hard to see more than professional differences.  And, in fact, I do think that for many working economists this is probably the dominant influence.  But, as always, I'm a great believer in multiple causation, and multi-level causation as well.  So I take from Krugman what he's best at, and take the rest with a grain of salt.

At the same time, though, I do think Krugman is capable of changing his broader views.  So while I'm not waiting on his every breath, I wouldn't be too sure that he'll never come around to agreeing with some of your criticism.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Agree 100% (4.00 / 2)
Indeed, there is a difference between one's professional specialty and what one might consider outside that specialty. Clearly, he, like many if not most economists, tend to think of politics as being outside economics. Of course, that represents a real problem in the practice of making policy considerations.

He may come around. I think sometimes he's on the verge of it, but stops short. Probably out of more mundane considerations like the editorial policies of the NYTimes and the office politics therein. Fifteen years ago, he was a major league cheerleader for neo-liberal policies: "free trade" and so on. But starting around '98 or '99, he started worrying. BushCO finally sent him over the fence. So while he occasionally irks with his presumption of innocence on the part of his colleagues, at least he's pretty honest. He at least proved he could learn important things and saved his integrity in the process.

DeLong is comparable to a point on this too, methinks. Also a Free Trade Groupie, when he cashed in his chips as a Clintonista, he started seeing things differently over time. Now, of course, he's quite pointed in his critiques, even if he's also weak in political terms at times--his unwillingness to judge people like Helicopter Ben being an example, but that goes to K-man as well. It's undoubtedly an occupational hazard with economists. Well, the non-heterodox ones, at any rate.

As for multiple causation, that's almost always a factor for me. There's usually more to the story than what's being addressed... any story. In this case, it's kind of a chicken-egg thing. That will be debated ad infinitum, I suppose. But I hope Krugman and others will stop ignoring the chicken altogether and soon.

"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


[ Parent ]
Of course Krugman is aware of the politics (4.00 / 1)
Indeed, there is a difference between one's professional specialty and what one might consider outside that specialty. Clearly, he, like many if not most economists, tend to think of politics as being outside economics. Of course, that represents a real problem in the practice of making policy considerations.

I don't think this is true at all. You must not read his articles. Obviously,  Krugman studies Capitalist macro economics. What, you expected Marxist economics? (What does Marxist economics offer? Well, specifically the concept that economics is fundamentally about power, but that is a political concept, more than a mathematical model.)

Krugman is constantly pointing out the political ramifications of economic policy choices, and the consequences on society and people. His criticisms of Freshwater economists is very political and quite devastating, while being expressed in neutral-sounding science-philosophical language.

Freshwater economists pretend to be all about their fancy economic models, but they are embedded in a right-wing project, a class-war of defending the wealthy and slamming the middle and working class. Neo-Keynesian (or Neo-Liberal if that is how you want to label it), remain Capitalist economics, but they are not so reactionary.

Two Knobs for Managing the Economy: Fiscal and Monetary

Freshwater economists want to only use monetary widgets. Neo-Keynesians appreciate monetary policy, but also advocate using fiscal policy as a tool for combatting recessions.


[ Parent ]
Krugman as naif (4.00 / 3)
This would be my criticism almost exactly, not just of Krugman, but of liberals generally. They, as opposed to leftists -- democratic leftists, anyway -- see politics as being trumped by economics, which is to say by management, pure management from the 10th dimension. (In that sense, you might almost describe them as inverted Marxists.). Economics-as-purely-rational-system just has to be so, otherwise we'll never, ever be able to banish unpredictability. In other words, if we want to build the New Jerusalem, but lack a reliable architect, we'll just have to pretend that we're living in it already.

Paul can weigh in here himself, but it's my impression that he would like to use the scientific method to reclaim and provide some sort of unified field theory for all of what we know of human nature, both its rational and irrational elements -- the macro and the micro, the alpha and the omega. By welding that somehow to all the political phenomena and epiphenomena which appear to most of us as shit happening, he figures that all of us, be we ever so humble, can become genuine stakeholders in the human enterprise, yet still retain some confidence that idolaters of the Milton Friedman or British Petroleum sort won't throw our inheritance down the nearest rathole while we're otherwise occupied.

If I understand Paul correctly, or mostly correctly, I couldn't agree more, except that knowing how bad I am at it, science isn't as much my friend as it his. What I love about your comment, Emocrat, is that you see with genuine clarity, as Paul does, that it's a psychologically suspect impulse to control the uncontrollable which leads us -- even the good guys like Krugman -- to ignore the messy stuff which we absolutely must understand if we want to start thinking of ourselves as the God-Who-Disposes.


[ Parent ]
Very well said, per usual. (4.00 / 3)
And thank you.

Yes, it is psychologically suspect, isn't it? Then again, I typically think of the impulse to power as being suspect until proven otherwise and that's how I read much of this. That's my bias.

Sometimes I wonder if the neo-liberal crowd didn't adopt Stanley Milgram's authority experiments as some sort of guide book. Raise economics to a "science," so that policy can be driven along different lines, using a set of rationalizations which will prove to be a scam later but work just fine now. By couching their ridiculous theories in such cold, technocratic terms, one can produce infinite amounts of agit-prop with which to lull the uninformed masses into a stupor and effectively neuter all that messy political stuff...like unemployment and standards of living.

I mean, how else would our VEEP feel comfortable at a Feingold fundraiser issuing the following oratorical effluent:

Vice President Joe Biden gave a stark assessment of the economy today, telling an audience of supporters, "there's no possibility to restore 8 million jobs lost in the Great Recession."

Only bolstered by the Power of Science(tm-Univ of Chicago) could he say such a stupid thing. By rights, the audience should have stormed the podium in a fit of pique. Instead, they probably clapped politely.

"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


[ Parent ]
Government by Experts is Exactly the Point (4.00 / 1)
As was discussed in another diary in the past week or two, the "government by experts" meme is simply another way for an elite to grab and hold on to power, in this case, starting around the 1930s and 1940s. Like any such stratagem, however, eventually events have a way of trashing the current orthodoxy. You get freshwater economists hiding behind epicycles to justify their desire to cut back (if not destroy) the middle class, among other phenomenon. You get Shrub after Reagan (as if Reagan was so hot).

[ Parent ]
Well, At Least Reagan Spoke In Complete Sentences... (0.00 / 0)
You get Shrub after Reagan (as if Reagan was so hot).

Sure he stumbled a lot (people tend to forget that), but he (almost) always managed to get the end of the sentence.

That's but one reason that Obama admires him so much, and wants to be just like him.

Next on his list: that double-dip recession!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Double Dip Ice Cream is Better (0.00 / 0)
I wouldn't mind all this double dip talk if it included Cookie Dough, Triple Fudge Brownie, or some other great taste. Instead the only flavor on tap seems to be You're Screwed.

[ Parent ]
It's What They Used To Call Rocky Road (0.00 / 0)
but then they modernized it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
It's now called Cliff Diving Swirl (4.00 / 1)
With chunks of Lemming, actual rocks (as nuts are too expensive now) and bits of Clif Bars, just for marketing purposes and to provide some kind of nutrition, albeit not all that tasty... all packed into plain, genetically modified vanilla ice cream and served with a brown sauce that looks a lot like weathered oil.  

"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


[ Parent ]
Conservatism can never be defeated (4.00 / 6)
It's a zombie ideology. No matter how many times it's proven to be without merit and no matter how many times it's politically marginalized, it will always claw its way back to the surface and haunt us and try to eat us and kill us (in that order). It is the walking undead of ideologies, feasting upon the body politic.

Which is why we have to keep re-killing it.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


Incorrect Assumptions (4.00 / 4)
   This is my second day of paying attention to OpenLeft and I'm purely amazed - comments require nearly as much work as I put into entire DailyKos diaries. I should have migrated here some time ago.

 We have a variety of assumptions that are simply incorrect. John Locke's infinite Earth, whereby anyone can extract something from the commons, making it theirs by imparting value through labor? That stops working when we hit the edges of our petri dish. I believe we're at that point in terms of energy, environment, and economy.

 Compound interest seems to break down once we hit the limit of available energy. What gas, oil, and coal we can get only seems as available as it was a century ago because we've got better technology to get at it. Think of it as atmosphere - we can scoot right up to the edge of the stratosphere with the jets of today, but they expend prodigious fuel compared to the Wright Flyer. And they've got not such a good glide ratio when they run dry.

 Humans, by the twin discoveries of external combustion for motive power and fossil nitrates from South America and the South Pacific, began a two hundred year long population run  up, expanding by a factor of seven and pushing atmospheric carbon dioxide 100 ppm out of normal bounds. Climate change has brought down many societies in the past, but when the first cause of oil use is a nation held hostage by a doomsday cult who expect it all to end in 29 months remediation is out of reach and political crisis inevitable.

 Our consumptive, extractive economy we might repair, but with neither energy to engage in the process nor an environment that can stand more exhumation of carbon dioxide we will find a new mode of existence, albeit with much suffering along the path.

  Jobs based on building high margin sport utility vehicles with five liter gasoline engines? Gone. Homes a forty minute drive as opposed to a twenty minute walk from work? Valueless. Our economy is 70% consumption, 15% badly managed health care, and 15% various forms of grifting ennobled by mailing addresses on a certain street in lower Manhattan. Why anyone would put any of their hard earned savings into such a contraption defies logic. Our sovereign debt holders are starting to understand this.

 Recovery? Revolution seems a more likely path and that's even with a responsive government. Our largely useless Senate and ideologically tainted Supreme Court deny us even that comfort.


Yes, Indeed (4.00 / 1)
There are multiple levels of dysfunction in our economic "science".  My point in this diary was merely trying to untangle part of the story about how some of the most basic hard-earned lessons of the past century got lost.  It's admittedly only one small part of the whole.

I've written before about sustainability and externalized costs, and I've been writing about global warming since 1995 at least, so your comments along these lines are certainly welcome here.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
re: Learned Helplessness (4.00 / 1)
Being well aware of the psychology of learned helplessness and Seligman's initial experiments with dogs (ugh!), I nevertheless found Krugman's use of the idea quite clever.  Maybe you have to take years worth of graduate study in the discipline to get the joke.  It resonates for me in an hysterically funny way; emphasis on hysteria.

I'll say this for Robert Lucas.  He might not have successfully married his notions of rational expectations to theories of unemployment, but he did - at one time - marry a very smart woman.  She anticipated his Nobel and wrote half of the proceeds into her divorce decree.

As for the rest... well, path dependence.


Well, (0.00 / 0)
I'm certainly not averse to expanding definitions, as seen in my approving attitude toward the general usage of anosognosia in last weekend's diary, "Why did Rachel Maddow ignore LBJ?".  I just like to keep being mindful of what's happening with the language.

After all, one must also keep in mind the criticism raised above that this is not so much a matter of helplessness for those who never wanted to see certain things get done.

And whatever happens to path dependence in The Garden of Forking Paths?


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
forking paths (4.00 / 3)
The way I took Krugman's "joke" was those fresh water folks have learned to be helpless in the face of circumstances like we have now.  The button they push earns them no relief from the economic "shocks."  And, that's because their buttons (models) aren't connected to the way human beings and this economy of people provisioning themselves actually works.  The analogy is imperfect in that Chicagoans continue to push their buttons (adding epicycles) hoping to score some relief.  I believe that to be the artificial inducements offered by the discipline; all this math is considered to be very sexy.

Either fork (fresh water or salt water) still places macro on "its micro foundations," and seeks to optimize some objective function.  Its the "micro foundations" that are hyper-rationalized and wedded to the elegant models which lend themselves to testable hypothesis; all confirmable - or not - when you confront the theory with the data via an array of statistical methods.  That's the path dependence of which I speak.  

The truly different path to which you refer - the descendants of JM Keynes, or Capital P Post-Keynesians - are thoroughly marginalized and appreciated largely within the heterodox sphere which includes Marx; so you know how sexy that's considered to be.  The heterodox world of economics is nearly Jay Rosen's "sphere of deviance."


[ Parent ]
You're both right... (4.00 / 1)
The point about helplessness is on the one hand the inability to make their model fit the world.

On the other hand, there is a certain amount of intentional (not helpless) ignorance. The underlying political values of Freshwater Economists are Conservative, and their models are wedded to a right-wing political project.

We're talking Ronald Reagan, Movement Conservatism, well-funded and well represented by all Republicans, Bluedogs and (unfortunately) the Obama White House.


[ Parent ]
Digby nailed it on Obama's approach here : (4.00 / 7)
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
If going for hard core Republican votes isn't their strategy, then someone might tell the president that for the next four months he might want to knock off his patented "one from column A one from column B" routine and stop making false equivalence between the Democratic base and teabaggers and lavishing praise on Blue Dogs who repeatedly punch hippies and stab him in back. Of course, as I said, it's always possible that the highly professional strategists have decided to purposefully depress the Democratic base and just fight mano-a-mano for the Republicans. Judging by the rhetoric and behavior it's the most logical assumption at this point.

I personally think Obama is taking the "third way" appraoch to an art form and in the process make Clinton look like a flaming liberal. Maybe I feel so because Obama had the advantage of taking office at a time when Conservatism was deep down in the toilet (not so with Clinton).


Yes, Icon vs. Yes We Can (4.00 / 1)
bit of a disconnect there, I'm afraid.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Obama's whole schtick was Red + Blue = Purple (4.00 / 1)
and that Black + White = Brown.

It doesn't work that way.

If we take conservatism at face value, then it must be rejected for this reason alone:

the current set-up is unsustainable, without substantive change, the global system will be overwhelmed by entropy and plunge into a Dark Age.

To conserve the system we have requires change. Period.

The only thing we should be discussing is what kind of change; conservatism of the Obama kind just isn't optional.


[ Parent ]
Macroeconomic Paradigms in conflict (4.00 / 1)
Seldom do we get such a clear demonstration of Thomas Kuhn's paradigm shift theories in action.

Freshwater is code for the economics schools in the midwest, Chicago and Michigan (?) that give preference to monetarist ideas and claim Keynesian economics is invalid. Saltwater refers roughly to East and West Coast economics schools which accepts both policy knobs: money supply and fiscal expansion.

Krugman is a saltwater guy and a specialist in crisis econonomics, like Japan for the past two decades.

Dogma vs Science:

Dogma: Mainstream discussions of economic policy start with the policy assumption that deficits are bad and raising taxes (especially on the rich) is anathema, therefore we must cut the deficit by cutting programs. (Conservatives, Blue Dogs and Obama subscribe to this vies).

Science: Even mainstream models show that deficit spending would boost GDP and cut employment.  Extending unemployment benefits results in a $2 per $1 GDP boost, because an unemployed person is highly likely to spend any extra cash.

We are forever treated to circular discussions of "deficit bad, but don't taxes, especially not on the rich", but never ever "boost the economy by strategic investment in infrastructure". If businesses aren't investing in jobs, the Government can do it.

Economic Models also Demonstrate Best Bang for the Buck

krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/stimulus-arithmetic-wonkish-but-important/

How much do tax cuts and spending raise GDP? The widely cited estimates of Mark Zandi of Economy.com indicate a multiplier of around 1.5 for spending, with widely varying estimates for tax cuts. Payroll tax cuts, which make up about half the Obama proposal, are pretty good, with a multiplier of 1.29; business tax cuts, which make up the rest, are much less effective.

Depending on how you invest, you get a different return on deficit spending. Apparently, lowering taxes is relatively small, which spending on job creation quite vigorous. Also, people with jobs pay taxes, so you get a double boost!

krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/bang-for-the-buck-wonkish

But if $100 billion in spending raises GDP by $150 billion, and the marginal tax rate is 1/3, $50 billion of the spending comes back in additional revenue. So bang for the buck - increase in GDP per dollar of added debt - is 3, not 1.5. Since the main concern about stimulus is that it will add to government debt, it's this bang for the buck measure, rather than the multiplier, that's relevant. And 3 sounds a lot better than 1.5.
...

Bang for the buck also heightens the contrast between effective and ineffective stimulus policies... [L]ook at the effects of a tax cut; the multiplier is 0.75, half that for public investment, but bang for the buck is 1, only 1/3 that for investment.



Supply side vs Demand Side (4.00 / 3)
Economic models demonstrate that the best FISCAL policy is to tax the wealthy and spend on unemployed and infrastructure. Deficit spending multipliers:
- $1.29 per $1, cut payroll taxes)
- $2.00 per $1, unemployment benefits
- $3.00 per $1, infrastructure spending

(From the above, you come out ahead even if you raise taxes across the board if you use the money to pay for unemployed and infrastructure. I wonder what the multiplier is for health care services.)

Best is tax the rich

If the rich aren't investing (like today's economy), then taxing them costs almost nothing in lost GDP.

The reason economic growth is usually so rapid coming out of recessions is you all these partially active factories, so business doesn't have to spend very much on capital investments, just hire up a work force.


[ Parent ]
Cutting the Deficit is Class warfare (4.00 / 6)
In other words, if policy makers are NOT following the above strategy, they are engaging in class warfare against the workers and middle class.

[ Parent ]
So they just gave up on macro. (4.00 / 2)
Freshwater economists declare that the business cycle is deeply puzzling, and that we need much more research before we can make policy recommendations.

In short, what we're looking at is learned helplessness.

This is very illuminating. I frequently run into people saying that macroeconomics is crap, but I hadn't realized it was an official conservative meme coming from within economics itself.  


The economics academy has been bought off for a long time. (0.00 / 0)
Here's a book you might find interesting. It's by heterodox economist Michael Perelman: The Confiscation of American Prosperity: Fromt Right-Wing Extremism and Economic Ideology to the Next Great Depression.

http://www.amazon.com/Confisca...

I won't spoil it for you, but basically economics schools around the country (with some notable exceptions) have been largely funded by corporate interests for well nigh 150 years. So it's really not surprising we've created generations of economists who are more wedded to ideological dogma of a corporatist nature than intellectual rigor. It also explains why Friedman's phony models earned him a Nobel Memorial Prize--not to be confused with the actual Nobel Prize, as Alfred Nobel himself despised economists.

How else does one explain an economics profession which largely ignored the 100 ft elephant that was the housing bubble and the other monster mutant elephant that is the derivatives trade?

Also recommened: Joe Stiglitz, Jamie Galbraith, Dean Baker, John Kenneth Galbraith (who is quite dead and is still quite right about damn near everything), JM Keynes (old, but still relevant), Robert Reich (of course) and a new favorite of mine, the Aussie economics prof (who I wish I had in college), Bill Mitchell, who can be found here:

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.n...

So I wouldn't say all macro is crap, but clearly a lot of it is. Trouble is, the people who've been getting it right all this time have no access to Power and Power has no interest in anything they have to say about anything. Instead, they cling to a dogma that was always something of a lie, no matter how elegant some of the math looks. Garbage is still garbage.

That garbage is why the corporate media still can't find any economists that saw the housing bubble coming (and what to do about it) and won't even try to find one. Lemmings --> Bering Sea.

"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


[ Parent ]
I've Got A Copy of "Railroading Economics" I've Been Meaning To Get To For A While, Now (0.00 / 0)
Perelman is very sharp.  I've interviewed him a few times over the years to inject some sanity into stories about the California economy & all the crazy things that Republicans want to do to it, and Dems are too confused to really understand.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
You're fortunate then. (0.00 / 0)
He writes in a rather dense style. Very economic with language, if you'll excuse the pun, right on point and always with his eye on the Big Picture. Something sadly missing in our national discourse today.

He's another one I'd have rather had my econ classes with than the folks I got stuck with. He's one I would definitely want to interview on any macro story.  

"We have 99 weeks of unemployment insurance. The question comes, how long do you continue before people just don't want to go back to work at all?"
--Dianne Feinstein (net worth: $75 Million+)


[ Parent ]




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