Michael Moore On What We Could Be If We Were Ourselves

by: Paul Rosenberg

Mon Jul 05, 2010 at 12:00


Michael Moore was on Democracy Now! today for the full hour.  You can watch/listen or read the whole transcript here.  But I just want to excerpt the very end of what he had to say, in part because it continues the spirit I wanted to evoke this Independence Day.

In particular, what he suggests--which I think is really true--is that if we just had the courage, as Americans, to act on what we really already are and believe, rather than acting out of fear, as conservatives always want us to, then we really would be every bit as great as we like to pretend we are, even while not-so-secretly knowing that we're not.  

AMY GOODMAN: As we wrap up, Michael, the war-the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. What is your solution that you think should happen now?

MICHAEL MOORE: Well, it was-I think it was-was it last week or a couple weeks ago? We just-the Afghanistan war surpassed Vietnam as our longest war. I think we should start referring to it as what it is: it's Obama's war. Just as Johnson's war became Nixon's war, this is his war. I don't know why he'd want a war. This is a completely unwinnable-I don't even want to use that word, because what are we trying to win? I mean, it's so absolutely crazy....

I just--I think that there's so much good that we could do. You know, if you travel the world, you know that people like us as people, as individuals. There's something charming about our naïveté and our, you know, right? I mean, you know, "Hey! Hey! How ya doin'! Hey, yeah! I'm from Detroit! Yeah!" They could spot us coming. But I think we're capable of a lot of good. And when you have a billion people on this planet that tonight cannot drink a cup of clean water, two billion who don't have clean sanitation, what if we used our money to do that? I read this crazy statistic-and I have not fact-checked this, I'll just throw this out there-but it was something like, for $15 billion or something like that, we could dig so many-x number of wells in the third world that would greatly reduce that number of how many people don't have clean water. And I'm thinking, $15 billion is what we've been spending almost most every month on Iraq and Afghanistan. So, one month of the killing machine could give clean water to virtually all the people that don't have it? Wouldn't you rather be known as, you know, a citizen of a country that a child 10,000 miles away, while growing up, drinking clean water, saw that plaque on that well that said, "Brought to you from your friends in the United States of America"? That's how I'd like to be known.

Paul Rosenberg :: Michael Moore On What We Could Be If We Were Ourselves

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Michael Moore should run a government (4.00 / 1)
that's exactly what the Chinese government does in a variety of places - funding infrastructure projects etc.  Because they're practical, not lunatics.

Anyway, Im still not convinced by all this nationalism "good U.S." stuff but if other people are really into it, that's okay with me, as long as they're coming from a genuinely good place :)

It's not because I don't care - it's because I care too much.  I really did love America (and as an assimilated 2nd gen migrant, it means something!) and it broke my heart.  I'm not sure I ever could or want to be the same again.


I'm Not Asking For Naivety (0.00 / 0)
We all know damn well what's been done in the name of American virtue.  I'm just saying it's high time we stood by our own words.  That's the same thing MLK & Langston Hughes said, and it's good enough for me.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
there's an argument that when you are talking about a major imperial and war power (0.00 / 0)
what you're asking for is naive.  I think it is.  
But it also makes me angry, now that my heart has been broken.

So maybe, even if it is naive (or perhaps hopeful might be a better word) it is worthwhile.  Another alternative - continuous and protracted bitterness, is not really great.  

Imagination is another possibility though - imagining what a world might look like without depending on american idols or American Idol and instead on building values and movements across the spectrum.

I do understand where you're coming from, I think though - I'm just heartbroken because I can't believe it.


[ Parent ]
I understand the sentiment (4.00 / 2)
but we just have to try to create the America we can love--again and again.  Our history is a heartbreaking series of betrayals but also moments (or movements) of brilliance that make it all worthwhile.  I think we need to give up on the idea of perfection, or even arriving at some plateau, and think of America as a continuous project.

[ Parent ]
can we not think of the world rather than America by itself as a continuous project? (4.00 / 1)
that is what I am getting at....then we can figure out how America fits into that, if at all.

[ Parent ]
We Certainly Can, But (4.00 / 1)
us US citizens have a special obligation to help clean up our own mess.  Know what I mean?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
yeah i apologise to strangers from grenada on buses (0.00 / 0)
i'm pretty well aware.

i believe part of cleaning up our messes is recognize to what extent we are a part of them (e.g. paying taxes, legitimizing ideas like 'the founders', believing too much in 'america') and part of it is actively dissociating ourselves, even rejecting, the aspects we don't like.

That is my belief.  I won't ask anyone else to hold it, but I wish more did.  You can be part of America - indeed you have no choice, without 'believing.'  But, as I mentioned above, I think there are a lot of advantages to believing too (i.e. how does america fit in doesn't work unless someone actually believes in america).

a chaqu'un son gout...


[ Parent ]
It starts at home (0.00 / 0)
The US is my home. If folks want to start similar initiatives in their home nations - great.

I have never understood "patriotism" or "loving America". Maybe because it was always the folks on the other side of the protest line that screamed those phrases more loudly, I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just a spoiled anti-American intellectual crying over spilt milk & honey.

But, I really admire the way our founders set this place up - even if I go off on the two party thing - because its not just "our government" - we ARE the government. Few embrace this idea, but some seeds take time to sprout.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Right-wing "Patriotism" Is A Lie (4.00 / 1)
"Patriotism" is a republican virtue derived from the fact that citizens of a republic are actively responsible for their own self-governance, and defense of the republic as part of that responsibility.  This sense of partiotic responsibility was one of the reasons that relatively small city-state republics were able to survive in a world of much larger authoritarian states, who could only count on mercenary armies for the most part.

This did not change until the Napoleonic Wars kicked off the 19th Century, and it was, ironically, Napoleon's call to citizens of the French Republic which created the first mass national army that in turn enbabled his enemies to do likewise, and thus the era of nationalism was begun.

It's nationalism in drag as patriotism that right excels in, which is why it bears no correlation with anything positive that America as a republic stands for.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Comparison (4.00 / 1)
The U.S. spends more on these wars than China spends on its entire military ($98 billion).  China is the second biggest military spender on earth, behind only the U.S.  We spend more than the next 16 countries combined do on their militaries and a larger percentage of GDP than 144 of 152 countries listed on wikipedia.  Three of the relative big spenders spend less than a billion a year.  The other four are all in the Mideast (Saudi Arabia, Israel, Iraq, and the United Arab Emirates).

We are in a delusional place all our own.  Sorry, Obama.  It is past time to cut back and cut back substantially.


[ Parent ]
Worse (4.00 / 1)
We've been damn close to accounting for half the military spending in the world ever since 9/11.

And who are we really fighting?

Our own shadows, so far as I can see.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
One reason why the Religious Right hates Democrats is that so many of us think in terms of humanism. (4.00 / 5)

But we should not wait for people like the philanthropists Bill and Melinda Gates or Warren Buffet to lead the way. Simple humanism should be part and parcel of our foreign policy. I think about the UN Millenium Project, and ask: where is that going. It's underfunded. Yet its only purpose is to eradicate 'extreme' poverty around the world, and put a stop to the ugliest statistic I have ever read: that 25,000 children around the world under the age of five DIE EVERY DAY.


Common Dignity, Common Sense (4.00 / 5)
For me, Michael Moore embodies the admirable "everyman" who expresses common sense based on a deep appreciation of our shared human dignity, and grassroots political outrage driven by a deep sense of human compassion.  In some respects, he's the left's answer/antidote to the Tea Party.  

Indeed (4.00 / 6)
It should also be noted that his sense of humor is no small part of that.

Hatred and fear, which play such a large role on the right, really don't leave much room for humor--except that directed at belittling those with little power.

MM, in contrast, sees humor in everything, even things he's deadly serious about.  Helps to keep one's feet on the ground.

BTW, at one point in this interview, Amy Goodman made a crack, and Michael Moore said that she should do more comedy.  She actually does have quite a dry wit, if you listen carefully.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
She's become much more comfortable on camera (4.00 / 1)
in recent years, and it's given DN! a bit of a "softer" dimension, but without taking away the hard-hitting reporting. Too bad that very few people watch it, or even heard of it. DN! doesn't report to the narrative.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
I'm still catching up with last week's DN! (0.00 / 0)
so I look forward to this one. However, as a total aside, tonight I saw--or attempted to see, as I had to turn it off after 15 minutes--one of the worst movies I've even seen (and I've seen most of the Police Academy and National Lampoon movies), An American Carol, which was an absolutely moronic RW attempt to spoof Michael Moore, by Kelsey "He really is as insufferable as Fraser in real life" Grammer & Friends. Do yourselves a favor, don't waste time on this idiocy.

Here's a clue wingnuts: for parody to work, it has to be FUNNY!

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


I have been meaning to watch that movie for a while now (0.00 / 0)
Just to find out what conservatives think is funny. Although, it was such a flop I doubt that even conservatives got the joke.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
The Movie WAS The Joke (0.00 / 0)
at least that's the impression I got.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Gets pushed down the NetFlix list (0.00 / 0)
by stuff like this.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
You Can Always Just Watch Colbert (4.00 / 1)
and try to figure out how conservatives think he's actually one of them.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
What do you mean "think he's actually one of them"? (0.00 / 0)
Isn't he? Oh, wait...

Photobucket

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Don't bother, seriously (4.00 / 2)
It's one of the worst movies I've ever seen. It's like watching a movie made by Michael Scott of The Office. What would have made the move infinitely better (as in actually watchable) was if it was made by people with an actual sense of humor (and thus irony) and its subject was the making of a conservative parody of liberals, kind of like how Living in Oblivion was about the making of an Indie film.

Yet more proof that modern conservatism isn't so much an alternative to liberalism as it is a lack of the very qualities that inform and animate liberalism, namely heart, soul, mind and depth. Liberalism is humanism. Conservatism is me-ism, of a rather witless and clueless sort at that. They just DO NOT GET IT. I actually pity them. It's like a part of their brain is missing or not working, which prevents them from even knowing it. And yet they persevere in their misguided passion.

Conservatism is the headless chicken of political life.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]




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