Matt Yglesias is delusional

by: Paul Rosenberg

Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 16:30


Truly:

I don't see any evidence that the particular apocalyptic "my enemies are totalitarian madmen" strain of Birch/Beck/Goldberg conservatism has helped anyone win any elections.

Over at digby's place, Tristero has a long take-down of Matt's entire piece, which is apparently part of the neo-liberal attack on Markos's new book, American Taliban.

Tristero's piece is very good, very thoroush, and very worth reading.  But it proceeds by basically saying, "Okay, even if that were true:"

Let's ignore all the obvious contradictory examples, like Bachmann and Coburn and Tancredo and DeLay and so on and so on and - solely for the sake of argument - go so far as to entirely concede Matt's point: no one gets elected by being a rightwing loon.

I want to take the opposite approach.  I want to basically argue that movement conservatives would be nowhere without this sort of rhetoric.  It's not always their dominant form of rhetoric--particularly in its crudest, most blatant form, but it's always somewhere in the mix.  As I explained back in May, 2008, in "Fox's Faux Populism vs A Shadow Elite--Pt. 1", conservative elites have been playing this game for centuries now:

While the notion of Fox News as "populist" is a ludicrous rightwing perversion in one sense, it is quite accurate in another sense we dare not ignore--and that is, quite simply, that it reflects the truest test of elite power--the ability to define the essential contours of populist thought, and to cast someone else as the dreaded "elite".

This is a very old game, and it's way past time we got a better handle on it.  Before getting into any sort of messy details, it's important to note--ala my diary two weeks ago, "The Ontology of Snark: A Prelude"--that there's a common ego defense mechanism in play here:

  • Displacement:  Defence mechanism that shifts sexual or aggressive impulses to a more acceptable or less threatening target; redirecting emotion to a safer outlet; separation of emotion from its real object and redirection of the intense emotion toward someone or something that is less offensive or threatening in order to avoid dealing directly with what is frightening or threatening. For example, a mother may yell at her child because she is angry with her husband.

Real, actual conservative elites have been using displacement as a stock in trade for millenia, creating ghost elites for unwitting populists to misdirect their anger at.  It was virtually inevitable that Obama's "new politics" of "change" would be targetted with this ancient charge....

Elites Create Their Demon Others
It's relatively easy for an elite to create a "shadow" elite, meaning something akin "shadow" in the Jungian sense of the unacknowledged dark side of the self.  The mass of people resent the elite for things the elite cannot admit or accept about itself--above all, the arbitrariness and injustice of its position in the world--and so it projects its shadow onto another group.  Because this involves disowning something fundamental of itself, the mechanism involved for the elite is more projective identification than projection, per se:

Projective identification is used to project the bad object into (not onto) another person so it becomes a part of that person.

The person then identifies with that other person, and hence has means to control them.

The person projected into may consequently be pressured to behave congruently with the projective phantasy.

This description captures quite well the enormous investment of time, energy and money we see on behalf of conservatives pushing the meme of "liberal elites", and devising various ways of getting "liberals" to act out their appointed roles.

The more extreme forms of demonizing liberals work very well for conservatives, in large part because they resonate with this broader narrative framework that they have repeated and reinforced countless times over the centuries.  Of course, that's not all there is to it.  There are cognitive motivations and biases that predispose conservatives to see the world this way.  And what Matt is doing is invoking a counter set of cognitive motivations and biases--ones that are generally much sounder and saner, but that totally mislead when one is trying to understand and respond effectively to conservative attacks.

Those biases are the foundations of the dominant 18th Century Enlightenment model of disembodied reason.  And late 20th and early 21st century cognitive science has definitively shown those biases to be false.  Facts do not persuade people apart from narrative frameworks.  When the facts contradict the framework, the facts are rejected, not the frame.  Indeed, that's why folks like Matt stubbornly hold onto their false models of reason.

Of course this is all very high-level stuff I'm arguing here.  But it dovetails very well with the specific history of movement conservatism, particularly since the New Deal and WWII, as it consistently failed to develop any sort of positive, pragmatic framework for dealing with America's realworld problems, and only managed to win elections by promoting paranoid us-vs-them narratives of seemingly limitless scope--McCarthyism in the early 50s (based on Nixon's smear campaigns that first won him a seat in Congress), racial backlash and the culture wars beginning with Goldwater 1964 and Nixon in 1968, honed to perfection by Reagan in 1980, and systematized by Gingrich in 1994--but never, ever actually solving any of the problems that it promised to.

And yet, when it comes down to it, Yglesias is basically trying to argue that nothing conservatives have done along these lines has been politically successful.

Which is utterly, downright delusional.

Am I twising his argument beyond his meaning? First off, I'd say that if I am, then his argument doesn't hold much punch.  But here's what he said in complete context:

Paul Rosenberg :: Matt Yglesias is delusional
I previously expressed hope that Markos Moulitsas' American Taliban: How War, Sex, Sin, and Power Bind Jihadists and the Radical Right would be better than the publicity material suggested. Jamelle Bouie read it for The American Prospect and reports back that it isn't. Kevin Drum, meanwhile, notes the contrast between this kind of scathing review on a very mainstream liberal magazine and the reception of Liberal Fascism on the right.

I tend to think that this is one of the areas where progressives aren't just doing the right thing, but have a smarter tactical approach to politics. There are scenarios in which tagging your political opponents with smears can be effective, but I don't see any evidence that the particular apocalyptic "my enemies are totalitarian madmen" strain of Birch/Beck/Goldberg conservatism has helped anyone win any elections. This should be differentiated from the occasional lapse into rhetorical excess that everyone does now and again. I'm talking specifically about the kind of sustained effort to seriously persuade people that Elana Kagan favors sharia or Dwight Eisenhower is a Communist that you see among loons of all stripes but that seems to be granted more respectability on the right.

So, progressives "have a smarter tactical approach to politics"???  Really?  Looking back at the past 42 years, since 1968, you can actually say that with a straight face?  Particularly after the trainwreck of the last 20 months?  That's a whole separate count of delusional thinking in my book.

But back to getting a fix on what Matt's saying here. I haven't seen Kos's book, but I don't have to to respond to this.  If his execution's flawed, then it's flawed, and he can be criticized for that.  But the claim that his argument is inherently flawed could only hold water if, for example the inverse of the wild-eyed conservative claims were equally absurd.  And this simply is not the case.  For example, the inverse of claiming that Elana Kagan favors sharia law is claiming that top Republicans favor turning American into a theoocracy.

Which, of course, they do!. The influence of R. J. Rushdoony and Christian Reconstructionism on the conservative movement seems to be something that Matt is utterly ignorant of, so he's just a brief quote from one of many relevant posts at Talk2Action.org to give some idea:

David Barton, who recently has been tapped as an alleged "expert" on American history featured on the Glenn Beck show, has built a career upon his claim that United States government was founded on Biblical precepts. This creates a major problem - if America was founded as a Christian nation, how can we account for slavery? Barton's articles on slavery on his Wallbuilders web site stress that many of the Founding Fathers were strongly opposed to the institution of slavery (which is true) but then he refers readers to a Wallbuilders article by Barton's close colleague Stephen McDowell, which explains that although Southern Slavery was wrong, it was wrong because it wasn't Biblical slavery as defined by Christian Reconstructionist theologian R.J. Rushdoony, whose basic approach was simple - what was permissible according to Biblical scripture is permissible now: including slavery.

McDowell's article cites R.J. Rushdoony's Institutes of Biblical Law six times in its footnotes and that's notable given that the book was Rushdoony's master work on how to implement Biblical law in the American legal system. R.J. Rushdoony's scheme included establishing stoning and burning at the stake for adultery, homosexuality, and idolatry, and the legalization of Biblical slavery. Leaders in the Christian Reconstructionism movement Rushdoony founded have for several decades now been trying to make it so.

This is what's been building beneath the surface on the right for several generations now, and it's beginning to come right out into the open with the likes of Beck and Tea Party candeidates like Sharon Angle.

It's not a delusion to talk about it.  It's a delusion to deny that it exists.


Tags: , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Rush (4.00 / 2)
Back in 1990, I thought Rush Limbaugh was God's gift to liberals.  The guy was so obviously pompous, no-nothing asshole, only good could come from him being associated with conservatism.

Needless to say, I was proven wrong on that point.


And, I Would Argue (4.00 / 3)
We largely have folks like Yglesias to thank for that.  Rush really was a great target.  But with far too few exceptions, no one would shoot at him.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
That really is part of the problem. (4.00 / 3)
Maybe even most of the problem. That people on the left won't engage in an articulate argument about the "no-nothing asshole" nature of our nation's political discourse. Instead, we tend to just survey it and poll it, wondering where we stand in the milieu. I really don't see how we can progress with this strategy.

[ Parent ]
Al Franken (4.00 / 1)
Franken shot at him with an elephant gun and hit him .  Yes, Rush Limbaugh is still a big, fat idiot and Al Franken is a US Senator.

[ Parent ]
Might have done more good (0.00 / 0)
If that were a literal elephant gun.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
coming from the orthogonal (4.00 / 5)
There are scenarios in which tagging your political opponents with smears can be effective, but I don't see any evidence that the particular apocalyptic "my enemies are totalitarian madmen" strain of Birch/Beck/Goldberg conservatism has helped anyone win any elections.

Oh, really?  'Scuse me, Matt.  Is there an alternative argument for the GOTV mid-term elections on behalf of Democrats?  Because I sure haven't heard or read one.  That is precisely the argument folks are pointing to in the face of all of Obama's "successes."

As best I can tell from the emails I'm getting from the DCCC, the DNC, and Obama, that precise argument [The Republicans are gonna kill us all in our beds!1!1!] is the one I'm seeing most often... from the pros.  You'd better hope it resonates, Matt.  Or, you ain't got nothin'.


Good Point! (4.00 / 3)
But, of course, it's different!(TM) When Obama does it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Never mind that operative behind the curtain! (4.00 / 4)
I've been rather deeply saddened by some of the cheerleading along precisely these lines as well. I spoke with a volunteer a few days ago and asked her, "Don't you get it? You want me to give money to people who are working against all our interests. And yet you sit there and tell me the Republicans are, like, so totally a million times worse?! I mean... who's going to loot Social Security? Does that even register with you?! Ok, so maybe you're rich, in which case I can see your point. But if you're not rich, you're like totally tripping...."

"Call me back when the psychotropics wear off, okay?"

Red Tribe/Blue Tribe. That's all there is and that's all we're going to get from these losers. Oy vey.

If there should be a Barbara Tuchman of the future, what will be the title of her book? March of Folly is already taken.

But for now, we're going to have to listen to Matt "The Sham" Yglesias say, "no one could have predicted...."?

"Nobody is actually starving. The hobos, for example, are better fed than they have ever been. Hobos are eating well, in fact one had ten meals in a single day." -- Pres. Herbert Hoover, 1932


[ Parent ]
I should have added... (4.00 / 3)
... I feel better about my non-Ivy League education all the time these days.

"Nobody is actually starving. The hobos, for example, are better fed than they have ever been. Hobos are eating well, in fact one had ten meals in a single day." -- Pres. Herbert Hoover, 1932

[ Parent ]
Hell yes! (4.00 / 4)
Paul, you always get this kind of stuff spot-on, and I really appreciate it.

The neo-liberal response from Matt is an entirely predictable submissive response, and the success of right wing behavior patterns depends on getting a response like that much of the time. This is barely politics -- it is basic animal behavior patterns being played out using modern communications technology.

Knuckling under is still knuckling under, regardless of a person's long-term objectives. Everyone animal who witnesses this type of response feels, a gut level, what it is: a submissive response to avoid a near term hurt, in exchange for a long-term loss in status.

ec=-8.50 soc=-8.41   (3,967 Watts)


What I'm curious about (4.00 / 11)
Is what's driving this attack on Markos's book. Is it delusion or something else that causes folks like Jamelle Bouie, Matt Yglesias, and others to want to downplay the threat of the right-wing?

And why weren't any of these people reading David Neiwert over the last 7 years like they were supposed to?


+100 for today's Best Question Asked. (4.00 / 3)
Maybe it's because they have a certain amount of sympathy for the Right? I dunno. I'm sure it's the result of numerous factors that lead these folks into something of a Benedict Arnoldian position.

"We don't want the rabble to start getting a clue, for our own sakes...," perhaps?

In any case, damn good question.

"Nobody is actually starving. The hobos, for example, are better fed than they have ever been. Hobos are eating well, in fact one had ten meals in a single day." -- Pres. Herbert Hoover, 1932


[ Parent ]
It is a good question. (4.00 / 3)
When I saw Bouie's response, I tended to want to call it a one-off.  Now that Yglesias has weighed in, I'm watching for others.  Did Yglesias ever comment on Amato and Neiwert's book?

As Kevin Drum observed,

[Bouie]'s review isn't on a fringe blog site. It's not from a reviewer for the DLC. It's not written by some apostate liberal like Mickey Kaus. It's written by a mainstream liberal writing in one of America's premier mainstream liberal publications. Did Liberal Fascism get any similarly incendiary reviews from mainstream conservatives writing in any of America's premier mainstream conservative publications?


[ Parent ]
The veil has to come off at some point. (4.00 / 1)
If not now, when?

"Nobody is actually starving. The hobos, for example, are better fed than they have ever been. Hobos are eating well, in fact one had ten meals in a single day." -- Pres. Herbert Hoover, 1932

[ Parent ]
There are others (0.00 / 0)
It was a one-shot when it was Yglesias and Drum commenting on a sole review by Bouie.  Ben Crair at The Daily Beast and Patrick Appel at The Atlantic also don't like the book.  The general thrust seems to be that they want actual journalism and not a polemic.

Bouie also has a reply to Digby.  Unlike Yglesias, Bouie believes that conservatives have benefited from their nuttery, but he believes that "we can wage this war as we always have, by fighting for our values and giving the right the rope it needs to hang itself".


Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
That's the Chiang Kai-shek strategy (4.00 / 5)
We can wage this war as we always have, by fighting for our values and giving the right the rope it needs to hang itself.

That's the Chiang Kai-shek strategy. Someone, probably Stilwell, said of Chiang that while strategic withdrawal can be the right strategy under certain conditions,  it was apparently the only strategy Chiang knew. Chiang steadily retreated until he'd surrendered everything, and the KMT only survived because it was able to move into Taiwan after the Japanese left.

"As we always have" -- since 1968 at least, and look how well that's worked.

Another argument against the "stupid voter" meme. The Democratic leadership isn't stupid. Many are PhDs. But they seem to be incapable of learning anything*. Knowing who's "stupid" and who's "smart" doesn't tell you anything usable about American politics. Or to put it differently, it tells you a lot, if you realize that Limbaugh is smart and Yglesias is stupid.

* This is supposing that the Democratic leadership isn't deliberately sabotaging the party, something I'm not sure about.

 


[ Parent ]
Corinth, MS (4.00 / 4)
We also frantically defend unimportant things while giving away the store on big things like Social Security.  Jefferson Davis withdrew the garrison from New Orleans to reinforce the army protecting Corinth, MS.  The US Navy swooped in on the only large city in the south (poulation 160,000, number 2 was 23,000).  Those extra troops were no help at Shiloh and Davis' army shortly thereafter gave up Corinth.  Not only lose/lose but big lose/big lose/lose.

Chiang Kai-shek and Jefferson Davis.  Obama and Rahm.


[ Parent ]
Fighting For Our Values??? (4.00 / 5)
This is pretty much the same crowd that doesn't take Lakoff seriously, either.

If we actually HAD been doing that for the last 40 years, maybe we wouldn't be in such sorry shape.

Though, of course, Mark Penn & Rahn Emmanuel fighting for our values is not exactly an inspiring thought.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I think there's a difference between Yglesias and Bouie (0.00 / 0)
In reading Bouie's writing, his constant message is that race permeates everything and that white conservatism is strongly tied to anti-black racism.

I get the sense that Bouie feels that using the tactics of racist fear-mongerers denigrates the suffering of those who have been the victims of racist fear-mongering, that a refusal to torture the truth even though the other side is doing it is one of the values that separates the left from the right.

I don't really agree with Bouie.  I'm rather curious to see what it would be like if some on the left were whipped into a violent rage, for example.  If I'd been writing the book instead of kos, I'd probably title it American Hamas instead of American Taliban.  Maybe American Stalinism.  Whichever would piss off conservatives more.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
Complacency, prissiness, detachment, disdain (4.00 / 6)
The neo-liberal response from Matt is an entirely predictable submissive response

I see submissiveness in some candidates and strategists, among them Obama, but Yglesias seems more in the above-the-battle camp. I've heard more than one liberal say "I'd rather lose than win by becoming like them". The hip liberal elite is like a sexually liberated version  the old genteel tradition, with zippier objects of symbolic consumption and an ingrained belief in its own superiority in defeat. Some of this comes from a fossilized reading of Orwell, Camus, Gandhi and MLK, as well as the post WWII liberals rejection of movement politics and ideology. All told, a high proportion of liberals (neo or otherwise) have an incredible disdain for vulgarity of any kind, including the populist kind.

Complacency and detachment: a fair proportion of liberal and left-liberal politics is defined as altruistic, a kind of noblesse oblige, and that weakens their determination and makes a ferocious liberal assault on the bad guys unlikely. Few liberals fear that their own jobs will go to China, for example.



I was going to mention... (4.00 / 3)
My bete noire Hofstadter adored the smooth, refined Adlai Stevenson, a two time loser, and utterly abhorred the anti-Wall-Street rhetoric used by Truman -- a man who actually won an election.

[ Parent ]
Pundit's Fallacy (4.00 / 4)
It occurs to me that Matt has succumbed to a version of the Pundit's Fallacy:

The pundit's fallacy is that belief that what a politician needs to do to improve his or her political standing is do what the pundit wants substantively.

Basically, this kind of rhetoric doesn't appeal to Matt, so he assumes it is bad politically.  Ironically, it was Matt who coined the phrase in the first place.

It isn't exactly the same, as there is no policy in this case, but it is the same assumption: what appeals to the pundit is assumed to appeal to everyone.


wait! wait! (4.00 / 2)
Didn't Matt cop to this:

1. Erroneous views of foreign policy in general...
2. Elite signaling...
3. Misreading the politics...
4. Kenneth Pollack...

It's # 2 again.  Only he's the "elite."  Nothing riskier than reading and believing your own press... especially, when you write it for yourself. ;-)


[ Parent ]
Yup. Nail on the Head. (0.00 / 0)
And it is, too, policy.  Political policy, that is.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Well (4.00 / 1)
Judging by the pundits enlarging their Very Serious Cred by taking down a pajama wearing blogger for writing an impolite book, it appears Markos has at least succeeded in opening the Overton window an extra inch.

Perhaps some other VSPs will come along and pull "well I don't agree with Markso but he raises some interesting parallels..."  

Or, the whole topic of comparing the Teahad to the Taliban will become even more unspeakable.  My prognostication on these things is not very good.


The influence of R. J. Rushdoony and Christian Reconstructionism on the conservative movement (4.00 / 1)
I do not fear that these people (Reconstructionism/Dominionism) will actually succeed in turning the U.S. into a theocracy. What concerns me is the havoc they might reek in trying to do so. For instance, they seem to have formed an alliance with the "Likudniks" which appears to have had a considerable effect on U.S. foreign policy (to the ultimate detriment of Israel, among others). Another example is their support for making permanent Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy. They know that the only hope they have for advancing their theocratic agenda is to 'cut deals' with other regressives.

True (0.00 / 0)
Their chance of success is minimal.  But if their agenda were well known, it would be pure poison.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Yglesias & Co flunk GOP's PhD in propaganda (4.00 / 2)
Or not.

If these folks' aim were to develop an effective propaganda strategy for Dems and lefties, they would have learnt from the right's strategy over the last decade or two.

On every objective measure, the multilevel GOP strategy (ranging from loony to stuffed shirt), which successfully manages to segment its diverse (!) audience and to target particular segments with messages that somehow don't tread on each others' feet, has worked magnificently to support a party which has legislated over the period of the strategy almost exclusively for the benefit of corporations and rich individuals.

It's a technical marvel - which thrives on the sort of counterfactuality that Ygleslias turns his nose up at.

Do DC Dems abstain because of the pricking of their sensitive souls? Hardly - to start with, they lack the hunger which the DC GOP have, and which is essential for their end of the propaganda machine. Plus, they're used to muddling through - the last Dem two-branches Congress was Clinton's first, which did not turn out so good, and which fewer and fewer current MCs participated in.

And they've evolved to muddle: Reid and Pelosi and conceivable replacements are muddlers - pretty much everything they've done over the six years I've been taken notice has been muddled. And, if their troops weren't happy with that, they'd have got rid of one or other of them. And chosen a kickass leader, and behaved completely differently to how they have done.

Are DC Dems insane with this approach? Certainly not. They're satsificers: post-94, they've managed to keep it close, and there's no realistic prospect of a sustained GOP breakthrough. What with incumbent advantage, that means that that vast majority of MCs, with the minimum of risk, can get the dough they need for reelection (tons) to beat off challengers in the primary and general.

But - all this goes to show how far apart are the aims of DC Dems and most of the denizens of this and many other lefty blogs.

And Yglesias? He's bound to be looking for big media gigs, and calibrating his stuff accordingly.


This kind of stupidity from privileged wankers like Yglesias (0.00 / 0)
Is one reason why I'm very close to concluding that the Democratic party, at least as currently constituted, simply needs to die. Terrible things will happen to the country at the hands of the Republicans on the way there, but it no longer appears that can be avoided in any case. And if it involves the death of the worse than useless sham-progressive party, at least the suffering might have a chance to lead to better days in the future.





USER MENU


blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you

Donate to Open Left

QUICK HITS
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search