Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing: Inaction is Not the Same as Apathy

by: educationaction

Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:37


(I Don't care if it's not apathy. It's a BIG problem. - promoted by Paul Rosenberg)

With the incredible problems facing poor people in the United States, it is easy to look out on the lack of resistance, the silence in the streets, and assume the problem is apathy.  "These people just don't care."  

Here, I argue that "apathy" is not a useful way to understand why collective action is so lacking.

Those new to these posts may want to read Part I and Part II of "What is Organizing?"  See the full series here.  

educationaction :: Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing: Inaction is Not the Same as Apathy
ap•a•thy
1. absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement.
2. lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.
(dictionary.com)

Privileged people that aren't from a particular marginalized community, and even active people who are from that community often complain that most people are "apathetic."  They just don't care.  You can't "get" them to do anything.

I happen to know a lot about the research on schools, and the school context seems to provide a useful example of how this "apathy" thinking emerges.  

If you wander around an inner-city school and ask teachers and staff why children aren't doing well, they will often tell you that "these parents just don't care."  Parents don't come to parent-teacher meetings, they don't read enough to their kids, they don't help enough with homework, etc., etc.  Rarely will you hear anyone able to explain why this might be the case.  Rarely will anyone tell you about parents whose experience in schools themselves was horrible, for whom school is not a welcoming place.  Rarely will they tell you that the only contact these parents generally get from the school is when their kid is "bad."  Rarely will they explain that a lot of these parents are facing enormous barriers themselves, from multiple jobs, to long bus commutes, to a lack of sick days, to (less often than they think) substance abuse issues.  Most of them don't know about the extensive research that shows that poor parents care more about the education of their children than privileged parents.  And they don't realize how little real control these parents feel they have in a world controlled by middle-class professionals who they hope will help their kids on issues and challenges that they feel like they can't do much about themselves.

Judgments about the failure of poor communities to engage in collective action can arise in similar ways (although as I've pointed out in earlier posts, most people don't even notice that collective action is lacking in the first place).  It's easier to blame people for not acting to change their circumstances in the way you would like them to than to understand why they choose, often for quite good reasons, not to act in this way.  

Just as in schools, I am convinced that the main problem isn't apathy.  The problem isn't that enough people don't care about their futures or the future of their community.  The problem is that oppressed people often feel hopeless.  The options for individual volunteering or service that seem available don't seem likely to "do" very much.  They don't really know much about alternatives.  And most wouldn't know how to get collective efforts started even if they thought much about it.  

Obama has been hammered for his comments about people's turn to religion because they are bitter.  Bitter is the wrong word, as he has acknowledged (although, as he has also stressed, people are bitter).  Instead, for many people, religion offers hope in a world that often seems hopeless.  The problem, from my limited perspective (as I noted here ), is that the hope and, yes, joy of the religion of impoverished people so often entails a withdrawal from the seemingly irremediable brokenness of the secular world.  

Saul Alinsky and the Idea of "Apathy"

Let me first admit that Alinsky did, in fact, talk a lot about apathy, and about how people were apathetic, etc.  But I think one of the best things he said about why people don't act is this:


The issue that is not clear to organizers, missionaries, educators, or any outsider, is simply that if people feel they don't have the power to change a bad situation, then they do not think about it.  Why start figuring out how you are going to spend a million dollars-unless you want to engage in fantasy.

Once people are organized so that they have the power to make changes, then, when confronted with questions of change, they begin to think and ask questions. . . .  It is when people have a genuine opportunity to act and to change conditions that they begin to think their problems through--then they show their competence, raise the right questions, seek professional counsel and look for the answers.  Then you begin to realize that believing in people is not just a romantic myth. (Rules for Radicals, pp. 105-6)

In other words, you don't get people thinking about change by asking them to think or by urging them to act.  You get them to think about change by showing them a concrete way that they can actually make change happen.  

A sense of power precedes real thought and engagement.  

We generally reverse this process.  Privileged or engaged people like us ask unengaged people to think seriously about stuff that seems like a fantasy to them, and then we are surprised when they've got better stuff to do.  And then they seem apathetic to us-they seem like they don't care. (This tendency to promote extended analytical thought prior to action as opposed to a more organic and embodied process of engagement, experimentation, and evaluation, by the way, is a core characteristic of middle-class vs. more working-class ways of being, as I started to discuss here.)

They care.  They just don't see any point about talking about how shitty things are when there isn't anything much they can do about it.  And they have got a lot of other stuff on their minds, things they need to do, etc. . . .

Of course, some people may be apathetic.  But you don't need everybody.  You don't even need most people.

An organizer once said to me that if you could effectively organize 1% of the people in a city, you could basically make anything you wanted happen there.  That makes sense to me.  There are about 500,000 people in Milwaukee.  If you could get 5,000 of them seriously engaged in a focused and long-term way about a specific challenge, it's hard to see how local politicians and others could stand against them.  

An Example: Engaging High School Students in Social Action

I learned this lesson about power preceding action to my own chagrin when I started working with a local inner-city charter high school.  They were trying to engage their students in community change projects, and I offered to help as part of a research effort.  I got a bunch of graduate students together to act as "coaches" to small groups of youth.  The idea was that the youth would choose their own topic areas, and we would try to engage them in a process to focus down on a specific social change project.  This would involve a lot of research and thinking about how the world worked, how different problems and issues were related to each other, etc.  We basically used the model that most "youth organizers" use, which is adapted from the model adult organizers use that I've discussed earlier.

It was largely a disaster.  Nearly all the groups sat around for week after week going around and around about the (too) general topic (teen pregnancy, drug abuse, foster care, etc.) that they had started with and increasingly felt disempowered about the whole thing.  The youth could often present quite sophisticated analyses of their communities and of the challenges they faced, but these dialogues never seemed to really "go" anywhere concrete.  Early on, for example, coaches engaged students in an activity where the cause and effect relationships between different aspects of their topic area were laid out on a big piece of paper.  After which we (the coaches and the kids) all stood back and felt totally overwhelmed by the complexity and immensity of the whole thing.

Why didn't this process work?  A key issue was that, unlike most youth organizing where a core group of interested and already engaged students self-select participation, these groups were required by the school curriculum.  All students had to participate.  And these students didn't necessarily arrive in these groups feeling particularly empowered.  (See this powerpoint for a more complete early draft analysis of this effort)

The next year we took an entirely different approach, informed by the Alinsky quote, above.  In the first year we hadn't wanted to tell students what to do-that seemed like it would defeat the whole purpose.  The second year we started every group with a "doable" project.  It wasn't necessarily earth shaking, but it was something that the youth could actually work on from the first moment at the same time.  Our hope was that they would get engaged in the activity and that this would get them excited about thinking more broadly about the challenges of social change, imagining other things they could do and taking ownership.

Year two wasn't perfect either, by any means, but the general approach seemed right.  

The year one kids weren't apathetic.  They did care, and often got engaged for a little while, at least, in discussions about their communities.  But the fact was that during the first year they (and, after a while, we) felt hopeless.  The point wasn't that we couldn't do anything, but that the way we framed the "problems," it didn't seem like we could do anything that would really matter.  The whole activity often seemed like an exercise in futility.  So why bother?

Education, Active Recruitment, and Lower Barriers to Entry

I've talked before about changing the ecology of organizing in a city.  One of key ways to increase collective action would be to stop waiting for organizing groups to appear by themselves and actively seek out people and groups to create new organizations.  (The national multi-issue umbrella groups do this--I'll talk about them later--but only to create a single organization in each city.)  Doing this would require a range of intertwined efforts.  We'd need a broad education plan to go out into the community so that more people know what organizing is and how it can work.  We'd need spaces where people could gather.  We'd need easily accessible funding for start-up and some sense of where more long-term funding would come from.  We'd need local trainers available to help groups develop over time.  And we'd need more visible examples of effective organizing that they could model themselves after.  Overall we need to lower the barriers to the creation of new organizing groups.    

In other words, one way or another, people need to see that it is actually possible to achieve meaningful change before we can expect them to even start thinking seriously about actually acting themselves.  

(Note: I want to thank my colleague Larry Marx for the "ecology" metaphor).


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Thanks again (4.00 / 1)
for a really enlightening article and powerpoint slides.  Here again I see the clear theme of theory and conceptualization needing to follow action rather than lead it.  Now what I really need to do is to try and internalize this message in the face of strong personal inclinations to the contrary!

Important insight (4.00 / 2)
Thanks for this. It's something I try to talk about in every talk I give. There are many studies, including some good new ones by a young man named Gani Aldashev. Here's an abstract of one of his papers.

I quoted an earlier study of his in the Politics of Deceit. The subject is information acquisition. Short summary:  when people feel they can express a political opinion with neighbor, friend, co-worker, etc., when they have taken the risk for a social exchange benefit, they are much more likely to continue to take that risk -- all the way up to voting and organizing.

In other words, organizing needs to solicit opinions and observations. I don't give speeches to conventions of astrophysicists. Not because I'm afraid the scientists will disagree, but because I'm afraid I have nothing of relevance to say, that my presence and utterances will go unacknowledged. As they should, in this illustration.

Many people don't vote for the very same reason. And we need to respect that. There are also many people who have carved ways of getting ahead that include staying out of the way of the man, and voting is the man. This is an affirmative decision and habit, and we have to respect it first (and the socio-economic and cultural circumstances that lead to it) before we can change it.

There are apathetic people, but our major problem has to do with those who are disenfranchised politically, economically, and socially. Democracy is not a convention of astrophysicists.

Thanks again for your post.


Your point is well taken. (4.00 / 1)
People should be listened to more.

But my point was actually quite different.  I am arguing that efforts to "solicit opinions and observations" are, by themselves, unlikely to get us very far.  That was Alinsky's point as well, as I understand him.  So I may actually be disagreeing with you a bit, here.

The issue, at least as I've framed it here (and I could be wrong) is one of access to real, concrete power to make change, and not having one's opinions heard.

I agree with you that creating spaces for talking seriously about things is important.  You have presented good evidence for this.  I'm just not sure it will take you as far as you may want.

In fact, in some cases people joining organizing efforts may not care that much about being heard.  They don't need their unique opinions about how to run a school dental plan to be heard.  They just want dental services in schools.  And they're willing to join an effort to make this happen if it seems likely to work.

Let me go digress a little (or maybe not) and say that it may be that professional folks like us are the ones who most want to be "heard."  We want our ideas to make a difference in public spaces.  People who are scrabbling for the next dollar may be less likely to have social practices that hold up the same hierarchy of aims. In fact I think there is good evidence this is the case.

Everyone wants to be heard, in one way or another.  But how professionals, who have been trained that their individual opinion is really crucial and needs to be taken account of, feel about being heard may be different from that of others.  

Another way to be heard is to have your story listened to and validated, or to tell your story in a way that generates solidarity with others (which is less about "you" and more about "us").  There are lots of ways of being heard.  

There is a public and private issue, here, that I'm planning to get into later.  People from different cultural backgrounds define where and how they want to be heard differently.  Some working-class people, for example, make a fairly strict distinction between public and private.  For professionals, their jobs and their lives outside work intertwine together.  The boundaries are porous at best.  People who work in factories tend to make much more strict distinctions between these spaces.  Home is for a range of reasons more sancrosanct.  And how they want to be "heard" at home can be quite different than how they want to be heard at work.

Michele Lamont's work, especially her first one, Money, Morals and Manners, if I remember it correctly, is especially revealing on this issue:

http://www.amazon.com/Money-Mo...



--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
Not really a disagreement (4.00 / 1)
I don't disagree about the relative weakness of merely "soliciting opinions."  
The key to that problem is that the power lies with the solicitor, and the object of the solicitation remains relatively passive.

And I think I spoke to the differences in aims -- its just those differences that must be understood and respected.

"Talking seriously about things" is necessary but nowhere near sufficient.  The kind of concrete power you rightly pursue is contingent upon multiple variables. But just one way that mere talking helps is by growing organizations that successfully contest barriers to people's power.

It's not at all surprising to me that we receive more information in settings where we are allowed to send more information. Interactivity and all that. And it is true, I think, that there is a link between information availability and participation, so....well, the point is obvious.

But I don't think this means if we could just get everybody talking we'd have a perfect democracy. Still, there is a reason totalitarian governments outlaw assembly, and there's a reason the right to assemble is in our constitution. And there's a reason our assemblies today are watched by satellite.


[ Parent ]
Need a little Stephen Douglas in this... (4.00 / 3)
Let me jump into this, your discussion about the place of "listening" in organizing. I'm fueled this morning by just having come out of a well-meaning, day long,  meeting in which "listening" was fetishized, in my opinion to the detriment of any worthwhile outcome.

Though often the middle-class insistence that we begin with "listening" and derive action from what we say to each other proceeds from a respectful desire to hear the (usually less powerful, often unfamiliar) other -- it also proceeds from conflict aversion.

Nice middle class folks who've had a dabbling of "organizing training" easily get stuck in "listening" forever -- and never get around to turning experience into action for power. They invest "listening" with magic.

In my organizing experience, giving folks something to do comes first -- they will self-sort into those capable and desirous of risking hope by doing. Those who take that risk can then proceed to analysis. They will have the bare bones of what they need (usually that city hall is not their friend) but may lack information. Middle class folks can provide information and data that gives community aspirations a sound foundation. But getting moving is separate from knowing how the system works -- it comes prior. And it can be very uncomfortable because organizing lays bare real clashes of interests.

 

Can it happen here?


[ Parent ]
Well said! (0.00 / 0)
Process, process, process.  We love process.

But actual conflict?  

Leaders and followers when pragmatically needed?

And having our own opinion not heard for a moment or two.  Horror!

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
Thanks for this... (0.00 / 0)
Very informative.    

For most of us, power is unknown and scary (4.00 / 1)
I guess but for a few of us, taking power is an unknown process, and we must be taught that taking it is the only way we will get it.  That was certainly true for me.  The first "power" exercise for the IAF group in Memphis in the 1980's was to walk neighborhoods, listing common problems....abandonded cars, refrigerators, non-working street lights, stopped-up drains, broken pavement, buildings in utter disrepair.
The list was presented to the city [all of this publicized, advance notice to all concerned, and polite, respectful, civil], with a request to fix the problems and report back to US in 90 days.

Mirable dictu!!!!They did.
The organizer patiently explained that it was the DUTY of the city to do these things...in all neighborhoods [and we did do rich/poor equally, but guess where the fixes were needed].

So, next step was escalated, and involved confrontation.
Lots of foot dragging,"that's not polite".   So more educating, and pointing out that if you do not demand performance, you will not get it.   Hold them accountable.
No one, [not even me] likes to be held accountable. And righteous indignation is not getting to accountability.   It is not easy to hold politicians accountable, and that teaching that essential.  
If people learn that power can be respectful and effective, the "politeness" phobia diminishes. The politeness issue is our cover for how scary it is to face, confront power with our own[uncertain and unknown] power.  
It requires small steps with SUCCESSES at every attempt.
Theoretically, it must be error free learning.   Successes are reinforcing, and failures are critically punishing.

Consensus issues are critical.   Go for a result you know you can win, because people will not stick with a group that loses.  And it is hard, and the training must be continuous, and that takes skilled talent, working hard, continuously.






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