Obama channels LBJ in Vietnam: A delusional president leads us ever deeper into the wilderness

by: Paul Rosenberg

Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 10:30


Many had hoped that Obama would be like FDR, a Democratic President with a Democratic Congress, cleaning up the mess made by Republicans and ushering in a new era of Democratic dominance.  This was true even of folks like me, who were not so sure about Obama himself, but felt that the sheer necessities of the time would "force greatness onto him."  Instead, what we see is almost the exact opposite.  It's far more like LBJ in Vietnam--ignoring reality, running scared of GOP attacks, splitting his own party, and ending its long period of dominance.

In Quick Hits, doubledown points to an AFP story, "Obama vows to 'redouble' efforts toward bipartisanship".

A reality-based President might want to redouble efforts to solve realworld problems, such as, oh, I dunno, maybe the worst recession since the Great Depression?

A delusional President?  Not so much.

Let's review how we got here, shall we?  Skip the whole part where Republicans and neo-liberal Dems destroyed the economy, and let's concentrate on how "bipartisanship" and the often futile quest for it completely crippled any chance of a true recovery.  It's painful, I know, but a review is certainly in order to remind folks of just how much effort there was for a "bipartisan" solution, and just how much this involved ignoring both reality, and those terribly extreme economists who continued paying attention to it.

Weeks before Obama's inauguration, on January 5, 2009, Politico reported ("Big tax cuts in the works"):

Aiming to foster bipartisan support for his record-setting economic stimulus, President-elect Barack Obama plans to propose huge tax cuts for businesses and middle-class workers that will total about 40 percent of the package, or up to $310 billion, congressional officials said.

The revelation is part of an intricately orchestrated rollout of the plan that includes an appearance by Obama on Capitol Hill on Monday and a major speech about the economy later in the week.

Obama plans to ask Congress for a stimulus package of $675 billion to $775 billion, so the planned tax cuts will total about $270 billion to $310 billion, the officials said.

Obama strategists say he wants to get 80 or more votes in the 100-member Senate, and the emphasis on tax cuts is a way to defuse conservative criticism and enlist Republican support.

But officials say the tax cuts will be based on historical and empirical evidence of what works, not ideology. Rather, the targeted tax cuts will be designed to stimulate job growth in the private sector and help middle class families, the officials said.

So three things: (1) Obama wanted to gain broad bipartisan support, (2) So he included massive tax cuts--40% of his proposed stimulus package, (3) which he claimed would be based on what works.

How'd that work out?

He did include massive tax cuts. But they weren't based on what works, because tax cuts don't work (they average about 2/3rds the effectiveness of government spending). And he didn't get broad bipartisan support, he had to grovel and sell out school kids just to get a measly three GOP votes in the Senate (and none in the House.)

None of this was really a surprise.  Paul Krugman, for one, immediately pointed out the inadequacy of the plan (more on this below), while it only took a couple of days after the inauguration for senators to unveil their opposition. From the very beginning Republicans were hostile, as were Blue Dog Dems like Evan Bayh.  As Time reported on January 22, 2009 ("Economic Stimulus Plan Hits Bipartisan Obstacles":

Paul Rosenberg :: Obama channels LBJ in Vietnam: A delusional president leads us ever deeper into the wilderness

On Tuesday, Capitol Hill played host to the historic Inauguration of President Barack Obama, with virtuous talk of bipartisanship, common good and putting aside "childish things" in promising the dawn of a new era in Washington. Less than 24 hours later, it was clear how little had actually changed, as Senators from both parties expressed growing frustration with Obama's top legislative priority, the $825 billon stimulus plan meant to jump-start the nation's ailing economy.

"This just can't be a grab bag of spending desires that have been unfulfilled for the last several years," Senator Evan Bayh, an Indiana Democrat, warned reporters in a corridor outside the Senate chamber. "It must create jobs."

"The bill really doesn't fit into what the Democrats [have] been talking about all along as timely, targeted and specific," Senator John Thune, a South Dakota Republican, lamented to another group of reporters around the corner, 20 minutes later. "It would take a significantly larger portion of tax relief to attract the support of a lot of Republicans."

Both these complaints were utterly bogus from a macro-economic perspective.  Government spending creates demand--demand that the recession had destroyed.  Creating demand was the number one imperative--and Obama's plan did too little, as Paul Krugman had already explained, just three days after the Politico piece, in "The Obama Gap". Krugman first took note of Obama's warning:

"I don't believe it's too late to change course, but it will be if we don't take dramatic action as soon as possible. If nothing is done, this recession could linger for years."

but warned himself:

But Mr. Obama's prescription doesn't live up to his diagnosis. The economic plan he's offering isn't as strong as his language about the economic threat. In fact, it falls well short of what's needed.

Bear in mind just how big the U.S. economy is. Given sufficient demand for its output, America would produce more than $30 trillion worth of goods and services over the next two years. But with both consumer spending and business investment plunging, a huge gap is opening up between what the American economy can produce and what it's able to sell.

And the Obama plan is nowhere near big enough to fill this "output gap."

.... To close a gap of more than $2 trillion - possibly a lot more, if the budget office projections turn out to be too optimistic - Mr. Obama offers a $775 billion plan. And that's not enough.

Now, fiscal stimulus can sometimes have a "multiplier" effect: In addition to the direct effects of, say, investment in infrastructure on demand, there can be a further indirect effect as higher incomes lead to higher consumer spending. Standard estimates suggest that a dollar of public spending raises G.D.P. by around $1.50.

But only about 60 percent of the Obama plan consists of public spending. The rest consists of tax cuts - and many economists are skeptical about how much these tax cuts, especially the tax breaks for business, will actually do to boost spending.

In a blog post a few days earlier, "Stimulus arithmetic (wonkish but important)", Krugman offered more detail.

[W]e're probably looking at a plan that will shave less than 2 percentage points off the average unemployment rate for the next two years, and possibly quite a lot less. This raises real concerns about whether the incoming administration is lowballing its plans in an attempt to get bipartisan consensus....

The starting point for this discussion is Okun's Law, the relationship between changes in real GDP and changes in the unemployment rate. Estimates of the Okun's Law coefficient range from 2 to 3. I'll use 2, which is an optimistic estimate for current purposes: it says that you have to raise real GDP by 2 percent from what it would otherwise have been to reduce the unemployment rate 1 percentage point from what it would otherwise have been. Since GDP is roughly $15 trillion, this means that you have to raise GDP by $300 billion per year to reduce unemployment by 1 percentage point.

Okun's Law is the fundamental economics that Republicans and Blue Dogs like Bayh completely ignore.  In fact, it's safe to say they are utterly ignorant of it, just as they are ignorant of global warming and evolution.  They deal in slogan-mongering, nothing more.  But this is an essential fact about how economies work.  It's not everything you need to know about how economies work, but unless you do know it, you are just as likely to make things worse as to make them better.

Krugman goes on to do rough calculations of what this all means:

Now, what we're hearing about the Obama plan is that it calls for $775 billion over two years, with $300 billion in tax cuts and the rest in spending. Call that $150 billion per year in tax cuts, $240 billion each year in spending.

How much do tax cuts and spending raise GDP? The widely cited estimates of Mark Zandi of Economy.com indicate a multiplier of around 1.5 for spending, with widely varying estimates for tax cuts. Payroll tax cuts, which make up about half the Obama proposal, are pretty good, with a multiplier of 1.29; business tax cuts, which make up the rest, are much less effective....

Let's be generous and assume that the overall multiplier on tax cuts is 1. Then the per-year effect of the plan on GDP is 150 x 1 + 240 x 1.5 = $510 billion. Since it takes $300 billion to reduce the unemployment rate by 1 percentage point, this is shaving 1.7 points off what unemployment would otherwise have been.

Finally, compare this with the economic outlook. "Full employment" clearly means an unemployment rate near 5 - the CBO says 5.2 for the NAIRU, which seems high to me. Unemployment is currently about 7 percent, and heading much higher; Obama himself says that absent stimulus it could go into double digits. Suppose that we're looking at an economy that, absent stimulus, would have an average unemployment rate of 9 percent over the next two years; this plan would cut that to 7.3 percent, which would be a help but could easily be spun by critics as a failure.

Of course things turned out much worse than that.  But that's just the point.  Krugman wasn't being a tremendous pessimist.  He was much more like the early critics of the Vietnam War, who were, in retrospect, far too timid in the objections they raised.  But that's what "responsible critics" normally do: They err on the side of caution.

And that's just what Krugman did. He wasn't saying, "What if something terrible happens?"  He was saying, "What if things go exactly as planned?"

Why weren't any of Obama's advisors saying that?

Krugman then turned his eye to politics, with the same approach--not "What if something terrible happens?", but "What if things go exactly as planned?":

And that gets us to politics. This really does look like a plan that falls well short of what advocates of strong stimulus were hoping for - and it seems as if that was done in order to win Republican votes. Yet even if the plan gets the hoped-for 80 votes in the Senate, which seems doubtful, responsibility for the plan's perceived failure, if it's spun that way, will be placed on Democrats.

I see the following scenario: a weak stimulus plan, perhaps even weaker than what we're talking about now, is crafted to win those extra GOP votes. The plan limits the rise in unemployment, but things are still pretty bad, with the rate peaking at something like 9 percent and coming down only slowly. And then Mitch McConnell says "See, government spending doesn't work."

Let's hope I've got this wrong.

But of course, he didn't---except that things went even worse than he imagined, which only made the consequences even worse.

Of course we cannot blame Obama alone.  The press was perfectly idiotic.  Just to skim the surface, here's a Feb 1, 2009 blog post from Dean Baker's insanely long-running "Beat The Press" series (then at the American Prospect):

More Weak Knee Problems at the Post on Stimulus

The Washington Post again tells us that the stimulus is "staggering." Just a few days ago they told readers that it was "breathtaking in size and scope."

It might be helpful to tell readers that the collapse of the housing industry has lead to a $450 billion falloff in the pace of annual residential construction, the loss of $8 trillion in housing wealth will reduce annual consumption by around $450 billion, with the loss of $8 trillion in stock wealth leading to a further decline in annual consumption of $250 billion. In addition, the collapse of the non-residential real estate bubble will likely reduce annual demand by another $200 billion. This gives us a total decline in annual demand of around $1350 billion or $2,700 billion over two years.

Next to a demand loss of $2,700 billion, an $825 billion stimulus package seems rather small. The Post might try to look for reporters who are better at arithmetic and more sure in their footing.

Paul Krugman took note of Baker's blog post, then added:

One other comparison worth making, however, is with the Bush tax cuts, which will end up having cost about $2 trillion over the course of a decade - without anything like the economic rationale for the stimulus. Did the Post find this cost staggering? Inquiring minds want to know.

And, if the Post's reporting was bad, it's opinion pages were downright criminal, as Baker's very next blog post ("The Washington Post Prints More Nonsense on the Economy") showed:

If the Washington Post had a science section it would be filled with accounts of creationism and the latest thoughts from the Flat Earth Society. This is the only conclusion that one can get from reading its treatment of economics in the Outlook section.

Readers may recall the memorable Donald Luskin piece of September 14th telling readers that the economy was just fine. In keeping with this proud tradition, the Outlook section has a front page piece from Amity Shlaes telling readers that the New Deal didn't work....

Baker explained in some detail why Shlaes was full of it, but perhaps most telling was this simply chart appended at the end:

For folks who think that the growth in federal spending under Roosevelt and the recovery were just coincidence, here is the annual growth in federal government spending, alongside the following year's GDP growth:...

1932    2.2%   1933    1.3% 
1933   23.7%   1934   10.8%
1934   34.2%   1935    8.9%
1935    1.7%   1936   13.0%
1936   51.0%   1937    5.7%
1937  -10.0;%   1938   -3.4;%
1938   10.4%   1939    8.1%
1939    7.2%   1940    8.8%
1940   12.0%   1941   17.1%

So yes, the press was idiotice.  But it's the President's job to deal with that. It's the President's job to do what's necessary for the good of the country and to explain why it's necessary.  What's more, he could have enlisted enormous support on his own behalf. The points that Krugman and Baker were making above were quite straightforward.  A literal army of economists could have been employed in supporting and defending a much more robust stimulus plan.  The facts--and economic history--were all on one side.

Coda

On January 9, 2009, Think Progress ran a piece, "Obama: 'If Paul Krugman has a good idea...then we're going to do it.'"  But the ellipsis hid more than it revealed.  Here's the quote, following a more typical passage where he welcomes "good ideas" from Republicans and Democrats alike:

If Paul Krugman has a good idea, in terms of how to spend money efficiently and effectively to jump-start the economy, then we're going to do it. If somebody has an idea for a tax cut that is better than a tax cut we've proposed, we will embrace it. So, you know, one of the things that I think I'm trying to communicate in this process is for everybody to get past the habit that sometimes occurs in Washington of whose idea is it, what ideological corner does it come from. Just show me. If you can show me that something is going to work, I will welcome it.

But, of course, Krugman wasn't primarily offering ideas "in terms of how to spend money efficiently and effectively".  He was offering ideas of an entirely different order.  He was offering ideas about the overall magnitude of the stimulus and its dramatic inadequacy, such that even the best spending ideas in the world couldn't possibly be good enough to make up for the puny size. And he was also offering ideas about the folly of including highly inefficient tax cuts as part of the mix.

So this is how Obama appears to be open-minded to all, even as he categorically rejects the one option that could possibly help solve the problem.

As it was then, so it is now.

Obama is open to ideas from every quarter. Except, of course, from the realm of reality, and the polarizing partisans who dwell there.


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on the tax cuts (0.00 / 0)
As my wife reminded me at the time, the tax cuts in the "stimulus" were a major campaign plank, the "moderates" cutting the $500 to $400.  (That's the case too with the "green energy" spending in the stimulus.)  At some level, labeling all this stuff as stimulus was an act of short-term convenience that back-fired in the long run since we ended up with an ineffective stimulus.  

I agree entirely with the post, but I do think it's an important point.  The tax cuts were not really an attempt to get Republican Senators' votes, they were a successful attempt to get 2008 votes.


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


Not Exactly (4.00 / 2)
The tax cuts Obama promised were the tax cuts the GOP is fighting against now.

There wasn't even a perceived need for a stimulus of any kind(much less tax cuts as part of it) until after the meltdown in late September.  Obama chose to have the payroll tax cut follow the same contours as his campaign promise, but the two were entirely separate proposals.

Plus, the business tax-cuts as part of his plan were simply the Republican in his soul.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I thought the middle-class tax cuts Senator Obama promised (0.00 / 0)
were ones that went beyond simply keeping the ones that President Bush passed.

[ Parent ]
Can't Say I Was A Great Reader Of His Campaign Documents (0.00 / 0)
But in all the speeches I saw--and I just saw another clip tonight--he was clearly talking about extending the Bush tax cuts for everyone but the top rates.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Great post, In light of it... (4.00 / 2)
...can you or anyone else explain to me why it is that any liberal or progressive should still support Obama? I'm not asking why liberals and progressives should oppose Republicans. I'm asking why they should support Obama, and that really is an entirely different question, and the distinction is not small.

Obama came into office at a time when crisis presented an opportunity to achieve greatness. The financial crisis and economic meltdown was Obama's chance to lead boldy, to redirect the conversation and to once again make the Democratic Party the party of the people instead of just another wing of the money party. And it's not so much that Obama failed. It's that he didn't even try.


There Are Purely Defensive Strategic Reasons To Support Obama (4.00 / 3)
until we have something/someone better to rally around.

So, the question really is, what is that something/someone better and how do we make it/them substantially more powerful?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
That's not an answer. (4.00 / 5)
Sorry Paul, but no. Wrong is still wrong. Oppose Republicans? Sure. Support Obama merely because he doesn't wear a Republican label? No. You didn't spend more than ten seconds thinking about an answer. Instead you just gave me the same old generic crap. How'd that work out in the mid-terms?

People want a president with principles. They want a leader. Obama is in my estimation an utter failure on both counts. He is killing what is left of the Democratic Party just a few short years after it appeared to be ascendant. So I ask you again, what affirmative reasons are there to support this man? Playing defense isn't an answer. Hell, Obama doesn't even play defense. He capitulates in advance and calls it compromise. Read your own diary. It's right there.


[ Parent ]
Of Course It's An Answer. It's Just An Answer You Don't Like. (0.00 / 0)
Putting the responsibility back on you, so you can't act all high and mighty by pointing you fingers haughtily at others!

What nerve!

Reminding you that it's a matter of hard work, rather then easy accusations!

Thats... socialistic!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
"So, the question really is, what is that something/someone better and how do we make it/them substantially more powerful?" (4.00 / 1)
Was a legitimate answer.  Some will not give up on the party and will take a holding position, hoping for a knight in shining armor to appear.  (Remember how that worked out in 2008.)  Others of us will just vote for somebody else, especially in the primary.  Paul is an experienced political operative who understands how hard it is to create a new party and how unlikely it will be to unseat Obama.  I think that the Progressive/Liberal movement is on hold until at least 2016.  Paul's point is that if you want someone else, well, time is wasting.  On the other hand, if you just want to not vote, well you're out of the game.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


[ Parent ]
Electoral Politics Is NOT The Be-All & End-All (4.00 / 8)
Now, more than ever, movement-building is far more important than electoral politics.  The reason we have so few electoral options is precisely because our movement-building is under-developed.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Movement building also requires (4.00 / 1)
that we develop good candidates.  I'm think of 2016 and beyond.

People keep talking about primarying Obama in 2012 and I always ask them "Who" and never get an answer.  I have trouble thinking about who to run from the Left in 2016.  I don't really see good leaders in the Congress right now.  I love Kucinich, but his track record shows he is not viable.  Bernie Sanders is not the kind of candidate a mass movement could get behind, plus he's not a Democrat.  Feingold is alienated from the party.  Grayson gets attacked by Stewart.

I've been thinking we need to develop candidates who are from outside D.C. and that has to be governors.  I don't see a lot of good, progressive governors on the playing field now (but that may be due to my ignorance only.)  But I do see some good, progressive mayors, like Gavin Newsom of San Francisco and Ralph Becker of Salt Lake City.

I think movement building requires us to develop some of these mayors into governors who then post 2016 can be presidential and senatorial candidates.  We can't wait for the corporations to sell us our next knight in shining armor riding in on a galloping stallion, like they did with Obama and his book tour.  We must develop our own people.

Of course this candidate development is only one part, and in my opinion a small part, of movement building.  But I address it because it seems like a lot of folk only want to focus on finding the right candidate.  We shouldn't be looking for the right candidate, we should be developing them.

As Paul keeps telling us, we need to think long term and not just by the election cycle.

Educate, Agitate, Organize, Mobilize, Act!


[ Parent ]
Plus we need to develop candidates from the grass roots (4.00 / 3)
and focus on school boards, city councils and county councils.  We need to develop these folk to then have then be our future leaders in our state legislatures and in the U.S. House.  

I'd hate to think that in ten years we're still looking for the best candidate for these offices among the folk who are out there instead of having groomed our own folk who are fully in our camp.

Educate, Agitate, Organize, Mobilize, Act!


[ Parent ]
Quite True (4.00 / 1)
One of the main differences between now and 1968 is that we had actual options then. Even after JFK and RFK were both assassinated, there was Teddy, of course. But there were also a lot of liberal senators such as McGovern, Bayh, Mondale, Harris, etc.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Why do we have to support anyone? (4.00 / 1)
There's nothing that says we have to support President Obama, even for "purely defensive" reasons.  If you want to play defense, it might actually be more worthwhile to support good liberals in the House and Senate.  I know that you want that too, but doing that should mean that we're freed of any obligations to "defensive"ly support Obama.

[ Parent ]
My Favorite Part (4.00 / 3)
To me, the most telling part of your whole post was the quote that the Obama people thought that their stimulus proposal would get 80 votes in the Senate.  This shows that they had no idea of the political environment they were facing.  This is amazing considering that Obama had been in the Senate for 4 years and his chief of staff had been around Washington since at least 1993.  

What is absolutely mind blowing is that even after two years experience in the White House, they still are so clueless about the political environment that they face.  The idea that the Republicans are going to show any interest in bipartisanship after waging unending political warfare for 2 years and being rewarded for it by winning the greatest off-year election since before WWII is just absurd.  


Yup! (4.00 / 1)
I never forgot that.  No one who'd been living in America for the past decade could have possibly thought that.

If they wanted to prove Obama was an alien, that was their best shot.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
He knew (4.00 / 1)
Politics and journalism is, of course, a sincerity-free zone.

Obama and his guys knew that they were getting not much of anything from the 'supermajority Congress', and that calls for bipartisanship, Baucus Caucuses) were the best way to slowly bleed ludicrously high lefty expectations of what he could achieve legislatively.

I'm sure he 'believes' in the effectiveness of bipartisanship in achieving progressive goals as much as readers of this blog (ie, not at all).

But - he only has one more election in him, and he's bound to work the bipartisanship thing as hard as he can - he's running a Do Nothing Congress campaign in 2012, so he has to reach out, just to be able to say he tried.

Given the results this month, he won't exactly be sacrificing any opportunities for legislative progress.


[ Parent ]
Maybe, But..... (4.00 / 1)
Of course, either one of us could or could not be correct.  Yet, if you are right, that he has all the while only pretended to be seeking bipartisanship, knowing it would not ever work, this does not say anymore for his political acumen then if I am right.  If you are right, Obama: (1) deliberately pursued a too small and ineffective stimulus; (2) refused to engage the Republicans in political combat from the early spring '09 onwards as he was getting his teeth kicked in; and (3) accepted both a delayed and weaker health care bill and financial reform, all in the name of appearing to be bipartisan.  Meanwhile, he still got "stuck" with the  "too liberal" label.  In my opinion, a poor execution of a bad plan, if, indeed, only appearing bipartisan was the plan.  

[ Parent ]
Lengthy but worthwhile post (4.00 / 5)
The issue of the Stimulus Bill was the beginning of the end for Obama.  It exposed his greatest weakness, the inability to assess his opponent.  He keeps listening to the media talk about bipartisanship and believes that is what the people want. (Or perhaps even worse he doesn't care what the people want.)  For good or bad, the US voter wants strength.  At every opportunity Obama has hidden under the cloak of bipartisanship to avoid the conflict of leadership.  Unfortunately he not only misinterprets the will of the people, but he fails to understand his opposition.

Regardless of his rationale or lack thereof, Obama seems to repeat this behavior at every opportunity.  It is sad that when Obama loses in 2012 it will be said in the media that he was just too liberal.  I think that Democrats have finally found a way to stop the incessant GOP carping about how weak Jimmy Carter was.  

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


He Does Make Carter Seem Like A Pillar Strength, Now Doesn't He? (0.00 / 0)
Pretty damn amazing.

But I would object on one count:  The American people do want bipartisanship as well as strength.  While such desires are often in conflict ("Keep the government's hands off my Social Security!"), in this case there's an obvious solution, which was practiced all the time by Bush & other Republicans:  Act dogmatically, and claim it's bipartisan.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
In normal times (4.00 / 2)
The American people do want bipartisanship as well as strength.
 I think this is true, but not right now.  The working class people are scared spitless right now and just want a fix.  If they were concerned about bipartisanship they wouldn't have rewarded the GOP so warmly on election day.  The centrist middle class seems to feel that things were better with the fascist right leadership than with the effete neo-left. When confronted with a real threat, these people seem to prefer pugnacious.  

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


[ Parent ]
They don't want bipartisanship (4.00 / 2)
they want what they think bipartisanship will bring them-and won't: an end to gridlock, obstruction and "bickering" in Washington, effective policy as opposed to party rhetoric, and suboptimal corporate-driven "compromises" as policy. (To some degree, they're primed to say they want "bipartisanship.") No one would care about "bipartisanship" if the Democrats had passed a stimulus package that was effective without a single Republican vote. No one would care about "bipartisanship" if the Democrats had passed a health care bill that had a not-for profit, public insurance component to it. On and on.

Mike Papantonio recounts how Presidents Truman and Roosevelt responded to midterm drubbings [my own transcription]:

[Obama] ought to read the story of Truman, he ought to read the story of FDR, he ought to read the story of Reagan, when they came out of midterms, getting kicked around, all of them kicked around very badly. And they had a choice: they could use their position to travel across the country, to hold press conferences and to apologize and try to make nice, or they could restate what it is they stood for when they were elected.

Now Truman said-now, that's where he gets the name "Give Him Hell Harry"-Truman got on the podiums and he gave 'em hell. He said, "Look, I am not a good Republican. You can't have me act and look like a Republican because I'm not a Republican. I am who I am."

Obama can't get there...he's incapable of understanding that the other side wants to gobble him up, and, until he's able to do that, he's going to continue reaching out to people like [Chamber of Commerce President] Tom Donahue and [Senate Minority Leader] Mitch McConnell and all the people who say they want him to be a one-term president. And I don't know what in the hell it's gonna take to get him there...

FDR came through his midterms [in 1938], was slaughtered, and what FDR said is "I have to stand up for myself." and he got out there and he did, he used the bully pulpit in the way that he should have. He sold what he was as a President. He sold what his vision was. He went back to  the basics. Obama is so friggin' terrified that somebody is not going to like him; FDR said "To hell with them if they don't like me."

Not much bipartisanship there.

There's a leadership component and a policy component here. People do not view kowtowing to the other side that's committed, by word and deed, to your failure as strong leadership-rather, it is viewed as, as you said, delusional. We're not even talking "standing up for principle" or "enunciating a vision" here--leadership stuff-we're talking about self-preservation.

The policy component is that bipartisan "solutions" such as stimulus package are suboptimal. (And "bipartisan" compromises to liberal policy are, perhaps, worse than no liberal policy at all because they act as poison pills, discrediting the liberal policy that was compromised away.) People say they want "bipartisanship"-they want leadership providing effective policy (which happens to be liberal policy).


[ Parent ]
Now at least - (0.00 / 0)
you seem to know what 'people' want - the only problem I heard this speech before from an entirely and (truly) much more 'scary' Republican perspective -
(If you want to listen to it - just exchange all the words 'liberal' with 'conservative') - You suddenly start hoping for a real 'weak' leader!

[ Parent ]
You know at times it has seemed that Obama has used the bully pulpit (4.00 / 2)
but then a few days later he sells his own message out in some smaller meeting with the people he's supposed to be opposing.

It makes no sense to me.  Does he really think that these sell outs of his own message will not get publicized?

In the campaign he ran on re-negotiating NAFTA and days later assured Canadian officials he wasn't serious. It got out.

He blasted big bonuses on Wall Street and days later assured business leaders that they deserved their high salaries just like baseball stars do.  It got out.

He called for a public option in speech after speech but days later his people denied the public option was important.  This didn't even have to get out since the denials were on the Sunday Morning shows.

I don't think Obama is stupid.  I think he thinks we are.

Educate, Agitate, Organize, Mobilize, Act!


[ Parent ]
Sure I Agree About What People REALLY Want (0.00 / 0)
But there is that desire to all get along as well.  More thoughts on this to come.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
"that desire to get along as well" (4.00 / 2)
I'd love to hear (read) your thoughts on that, Paul. There's a whole cluster of cultural values in the US around "moderation," "centrism," "bipartisanship," "balance" and also "civility," "tone," avoiding "shrillness"-substance and process all mixed together. I don't know if it goes back to values of bourgeois liberalism or some British notion of propriety or Sesame Street or what. Whatever. I've never quite gotten it.

All this talk of "bipartisanship" and "getting along" makes me think of some hypothetical president who might have talked like President Obama, oh, around 1860*:

For years, we have talked the slavery issue to death in Washington, but failed to act, stuck in the same tired debates that have stymied our progress: North versus South; slave owners versus abolitionists - all along failing to acknowledge that both sides have good ideas and good intentions.

*[recognizing, among other things, that education policy and slavery are very different issues]

[ Parent ]
One Thing (0.00 / 0)
Is simply that folks on the local level can & do get along a whole lot better than at the national level.  So their reference frame is very different as a result.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Americans want results (0.00 / 0)
Americans think bipartisan means pragmatic but it doesn't anymore. It did, years ago, but it doesn't now. Now, it usually means corrupt.  Americans don't want gridlock.  They want government to deliver.  But Democrats are afraid to lead.  

[ Parent ]
Paul (Krugmann) for President - (0.00 / 0)
but about this 'bipartisanship thingy' -(Is it really the right 'expression?) -
Let's not forget either that lots and lots of people -(the 'amazing' American middle class?) - elected the Obama-dude - because he promised this awesome 'bringing the people together thingy'! - (It actually might have been a pretty popular and decisive 'thingy' - But now the American people 'dumped' him -
Do you really think because of 'bipartisanship'?
I fear the dude might think he was NOT sucessful enough in his 'bipartisanshipping' - Thus all this 'awesome' stuff he is planning - But see that's the problem with democracies where people elect the same people they threw out 2 years before - and if they have a truly 'democratic' President he just follows their foolish order -
So remember that Beatles song: Get together? -(right now!) - That's what you might have to sing in the coming month -(and i know that 'the others' won't come together at all!) - and that's why we should have elected Paul -(Krugman)
for President!-  

LBJ knew Vietnam was a disaster . . . (4.00 / 1)
I'm not sure classifying LBJ as delusional is correct.  

LBJ knew Vietnam was a disaster, a quagmire and wanted out.  Despite his reputation as a supreme politician able to move public policy, he could not figure out a way to extricate the US that wouldn't create massive domestic political damage.  Trapped between various domestic political factions each of which was upset about various things he ended up muddling through - waffling and unable to make a clear choice and so it dragged on day after year, week after week, year after year, until it destroyed his presidency (and not coincidentally broke LBJ's spirit.)  LBJ saw Vietnam through the lens of Cold War politics and accepted the Domino theory.  He couldn't leave and he didn't want to stay.

I see no sign that the Obama team has any of Johnson's self wareness.


WHAT?! - (0.00 / 0)
I'm pretty stupid - and even I realize that right now this President is trapped between various domestic political factions each of which is upset about various things - So he ends up muddling through - waffling and unable to make a clear choice and so it dragged on day after year, week after week, year after year, until it will destroyed his presidency... wait who wrote that?

[ Parent ]
you missed my point (0.00 / 0)
I don't believe LBJ was delusional - he knew he was royally screwed.  Obama can't seem to figure it out.

Policy wise, we'd've been better off if LBJ has sucked it up, ended Vietnam in 1968; that would've avoided the disastrous Democratic party meltdown that occurred the next few years.  


[ Parent ]
1968??? (0.00 / 0)
My point was about Johnson getting us into Vietnam in the first place.  He knew it was a no-win situation from the beginning.  His White House Tapes with Russell show this conclusively.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
and I meant to say - (0.00 / 0)
everybody who is as royally screwed as Obama can figure it out - that he is 'royally screwed' -(and if you don't believe IT start counting his grey hair!) -  
The fascinating question left - what is he going to do - Well I would leave that wild and crazy country as fast as possible to... to Paul? (Krugman!)  

[ Parent ]
No! - Not leavin it to Paul - Educate 'the people' - Double down!! (0.00 / 0)
At least he is doin what everybody is doing: It's ALL his fault:
"But as the president returned home on Sunday to face an even more rigidly divided capital, Mr. Obama went even further by blaming himself for failing to do what he had repeatedly promised - change the tone in Washington.

He said his own "obsessive" focus on implementing the right policies had led him to ignore a part of the reason voters handed him a mandate in 2008.

"I neglected some things that matter a lot to people, and rightly so: maintaining a bipartisan tone in Washington," he told reporters in a brief question-and-answer session aboard Air Force One as he returned from a 10-day trip to Asia. "I'm going to redouble my efforts to go back to some of those first principles," he promised".

I always wondered how Ghandi would work in the US?


[ Parent ]
and - (0.00 / 0)
I think it's hight time to tell y'all - You are truly terrible!
Don't you have any respect?
No mercy?
No empathy?!
Another American President get's 'Carterized' and you just look on?
Dumbfounded -(is that the rightword?) - and now this poor chap has to wait at least twenty years too to get some kind of 'respect'!
What a sad and sorry country!
(do it to a Republican next time!!)
- But they just get 'Reaganized'!

[ Parent ]
Yes, You Can Argue The Fine-Grained Detail (0.00 / 0)
LBJ was certainly much more conscious on a level-by-level analysis, what it took to get a bill passed, what it would mean, etc.  And he certainly had more self-awareness.

But in terms of thinking that going to war in Vietnam could possibly represent a viable way forward politically?  No, in that he was just as delusional as Obama is.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
wrong and delusional are not the same thing (0.00 / 0)
I think it's fair to argue that LBJ didn't "get" us into Vietnam.  US involvement had been creeping up for years; the actual sober center of Americans politics in the 1960s was surprisingly right about a lot of things - sober, thoughtful people like Dean Acheson adopted the containment and domino theory toward communism.  They were right about containment, wrong about the domino theory.  The US was already in Vietnam and LBJ couldn't see a way clear to deal with it that he thought would work.  Being wrong is different than delusional.  

Maybe a better way to phrase my argument is that LBJ saw two evils and chose what he believed to be the lesser.  Knowing the war in Vietnam was an evil, LBJ believed it was better than letting Vietnam (and by the then current theory, entire south of asia) fall to communism.  That doesn't make LBJ delusional.  Astonishingly wrong, yes.

By contrast, the Obama administration is denying the political reality in which they are living - really believing that they can somehow work with a Republican party that has vowed to destroy them, that impeached the last Democratic president, that started two wars, cut taxes in the face of a budget disaster, in the face of a manufactured budget crisis wants to cut them even further.  There's a typc iv error here where the Obama admin is solving the wrong problems (you can argue they're making both type i and type ii errors as well which is leading to the other problems).  Again and again, the Obama administration is not choosing the lesser of evils, they're choosing the greater of evils.


[ Parent ]
I'm not just nitpicking (0.00 / 0)
We have to get the analysis right if we're going to solve the problems.  

Is the administration making a type i error - false positives?  Or type ii - false negatives?  Or type iii asking the wrong questions?  Or type iv solving the wrong problems?

I think it's fair to argue this administration has somehow come to believe their job is to end partisan bickering - as if that is truly the highest priority.  In their pursuit of that, they have sacrificed a lot of good policy.  It's a type iv error - they're trying to solve the wrong problems.  They're so convinced they have to solve that problem, they are missing the real problems.  Through that frame, you see the administration pass up obvious tactics to accomplish one set of goals for the simple reason those tacits don't accomplish what they believe their real goal should be - that is ending partisan fighting.  The result looks delusional if you don't see partisanship as the primary problem in American politics.  The Administration will endlessly pursue clearly bad tactics - i.e. sacrificing the public option or failing to fight for single payer - because sacrificing them is perceived as a means to winning "bipartisan" support.

There's a story here of an administration trying to do one thing and failing because they're solving the wrong problems.  Partisan bickering isn't the problem - there are two very different views of policy and society at work right now.  The administration will of course reject the Democratic left because they are perceived as angrily partisan - part of the problem.

Having misdiagnosed the problem, the Obama administration has set about fixing the wrong problem and along way is creating other problems.


[ Parent ]
I Have A VERY Different View Of This History Than You Do (0.00 / 0)
And since I've been over it in comment wars a bazillion times, I'm a bit loathe to do so again.  Suffice it to say, our understanding of Vietnam has been changed dramatically by a number of books written circa 2000, plus the release of LBJ's WH tapes.

Maybe it's just time for me to write a diary about this and be done with it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
and remember Randy Newman - (0.00 / 0)
singing about 'good' people - How they always get the short end of the 'Pinata' -(or something like that) - I think y'all did that on purpose -(what the onion said) - Giving a black man the worst job on earth!

And Attention for one of the latest jokes about my homeland and their President: (very popular at the G20)
"And now a bunch of lunatics who even can't vote complain day and night about
the only sane person they got in their screwed up country"  


and I'm enraged about this 'racistic' joke - (0.00 / 0)
and as a true American I think we should invade the other 19 nations - ASAP!!

[ Parent ]
nothing will change until the weak corporatists are purged (4.00 / 1)
of this type of democrat.  No one should feel any shame what so ever to vote third party and spoil these guys.

My blog  

yeah - let's vote third party - The Consensus party - (0.00 / 0)
and I first didn't understand what the Obama dude was doing -
But - Wow - he knows -(he might have talked to Angela at the G20) -
AS every 'sane' politician on this planet knows: You only can run one of these complex democracies by consensus - There is NO other f... way!
And it might be very hurtful for US to get through this learning process - to understand it - But if other countries got IT - Why not America? -
We will learn it - and even the right wing idiots will learn it!
(and didn't the American people already vote the Consensus dude IN - anyway!)


[ Parent ]
and guys - (0.00 / 0)
the G20 it 'thee example' - Remember how an American could 'lead'?
(nothing 'watered' just straightforward partisan American s...t!)
Say "buy buy' to these times my friends - From now on it will be 'consensus' ALL the way - and doesn't that sound much better anyway than 'bipartisanship' - Because in the real world -(which will be America too one day!) -  a consensus between two idiots is just not good enough - you even might to have to find it between twenty partners! (oh my god - that sounds like getting through a stimulus!)

[ Parent ]
oh - I forgot the conclusion - (0.00 / 0)
So the O-dude might be one of the few people here who is NOT delusional!

[ Parent ]




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